Yes but they could say they are too powerful for BG1 and adjust the druids spell table, or alter the Martial Staff and The Worlds Edge and so on in favor of "Balance".
Except then the game becomes inconsistent for TOTSC, BG2, TOB, and possibly BG3.
I acknowledge your points, but what I say is valid. The dev's obviously nerfed the cloak (a very small part of the game in comparison to all +3 weapons and a druid's 5th level spells) for a reason.
Of course there was a reason. Considering how it has always had unlimited uses and was never fixed, their reason is a piss poor one.
Fact is, they took a fun easter egg item and made it not fun anymore. They successfully jacked up an item that could change the game experience for those who chose to use it. For christ sake, you had to pretty much get lucky to find it yourself, or look it up...and at that point, you already had a conscious decision to use the crap out of it the way the original dev's left it.
Yes but they could say they are too powerful for BG1 and adjust the druids spell table, or alter the Martial Staff and The Worlds Edge and so on in favor of "Balance".
Except then the game becomes inconsistent for TOTSC, BG2, TOB, and possibly BG3.
I acknowledge your points, but what I say is valid. The dev's obviously nerfed the cloak (a very small part of the game in comparison to all +3 weapons and a druid's 5th level spells) for a reason.
Of course there was a reason. Considering how it has always had unlimited uses and was never fixed, their reason is a piss poor one.
Fact is, they took a fun easter egg item and made it not fun anymore. They successfully jacked up an item that could change the game experience for those who chose to use it. For christ sake, you had to pretty much get lucky to find it yourself, or look it up...and at that point, you already had a conscious decision to use the crap out of it the way the original dev's left it.
It was never an easter egg, it is part of a quest.
Yes but they could say they are too powerful for BG1 and adjust the druids spell table, or alter the Martial Staff and The Worlds Edge and so on in favor of "Balance".
Except then the game becomes inconsistent for TOTSC, BG2, TOB, and possibly BG3.
I acknowledge your points, but what I say is valid. The dev's obviously nerfed the cloak (a very small part of the game in comparison to all +3 weapons and a druid's 5th level spells) for a reason.
Of course there was a reason. Considering how it has always had unlimited uses and was never fixed, their reason is a piss poor one.
Fact is, they took a fun easter egg item and made it not fun anymore. They successfully jacked up an item that could change the game experience for those who chose to use it. For christ sake, you had to pretty much get lucky to find it yourself, or look it up...and at that point, you already had a conscious decision to use the crap out of it the way the original dev's left it.
It was never an easter egg, it is part of a quest.
What quest is this?
EDIT: Just looked it up. Played through many times and didn't even know the quest existed. I used the term "easter egg" lightly, simply because of its power, and the fact that without looking it up, it is something that is easily missed. The fact that you have to now rest in between uses makes it more of an annoying change for the worse than anything.
North-west section of Baldur's Gate there is a woman named Pheirkas (in house just south south-east ish of the doors to Entar's estate) who tells you to steal the cloak from algernon for her.
The Shield of Balduran needs to be nerfed to respect beholder rays. It currently reflects them.
This is drastically overpowered and makes the prologue sequence in Candlekeep unacceptably winnable.
Also, the Shield of Balduran needs to be added to the prologue sequence in Candlekeep, along with a beholder against which it can be tested. As valued WotC product identity, a beholder or beholder-kin is contractually required to appear in the prologues of all licensed D&D games, or else.
Hmm, this may be the wrong sequence of events. Ah well!
When they nerfed Algernon's Smelly Ol' Cloak to -5 CHA, did the Stinking Cloud become a constant effect like it should be, or is it still 3/day?
It's one charge, and flagged to recharge upon resting (thus 1/day).
Since it recharges upon resting there's no need for shop shenanigans. However, I imagine if you tried to sell it after exhausting its use for the day you will not get much for it.
LOL. I find this discussion fascinating. Anyone who is expert at the game enough to want to beat it using Algernon's Cloak need only use one of the workarounds already mentioned.
It appears that the BG:EE devs made a decision that, imo, affects new players only. This target audience has no idea what a Cloak of Algernon is or why it more or less breaks the game for an expert player.
It doesn't, really, for a non-expert player, since the spell allows a save, and the deeper you get into the game, the more useless save-or-die magic becomes.
It looks to me like the devs decided to remove something from the potential experience of their new target audience, that was not meant to be discovered until very, very late in the game, and only for the lucky few who find that house in Baldur's Gate, or for "evil" characters who go around robbing and killing everybody in sight, and those were meant to be facing the Flaming Fist and probably killed over and over.
As for "old", experienced players, the "evil" among us have been heading straight for Algernon's Cloak from day one of the game, and using it for the whole game to create their own special "god mode", for years. Hey, if that kind of thing appeals to you, great. You can still do it. Just edit the item, and go to town. Anybody with enough expertise in this game to know how to obtain and abuse Algernon's Cloak straight out of Candlekeep, surely has enough expertise in this game to edit the item back to "god mode".
The whole "Algernon's Cloak equals GodMode, Yay" thing is a massive game spoiler for new players. It's a game spoiler that has now been removed, and I support the decision.
It's one charge, and flagged to recharge upon resting (thus 1/day).
Excuse my language but why the f*** are people complaining so much then? Unlimited uses, but only one use a day sounds perfect, much more balanced (same as Safana's innate ability), I might actually use it now and not feel like I'm cheesing it.
It's one charge, and flagged to recharge upon resting (thus 1/day).
Excuse my language but why the f*** are people complaining so much then?
To be fair, this is the internet we're talking about. Disproportionate reactions to things are like half the reason it exists, the other half being porn.
It's one charge, and flagged to recharge upon resting (thus 1/day).
Excuse my language but why the f*** are people complaining so much then? Unlimited uses, but only one use a day sounds perfect, much more balanced (same as Safana's innate ability), I might actually use it now and not feel like I'm cheesing it.
For me, I was bored and felt like being passionate about something. That's really about it. I moved on to discussing music in a band members website. Thought I would check back in
Because its a slippery slope kind of thing. Today its the cloak, tomorrow its removing +3 weapons from the game, then removing Druid level 5 spellcasting, and so on. Where does it end?
Except +3 weapons and the druid's class mechanics are an integral part of the game, especially in Baldur's Gate 2 (not to mention D&D in general).
Keep in mind, they didn't outright remove the cloak, they simply nerfed it.
A better example is the Ring of Wizardry. Talk about overpowered! Even easier to get than the Cloak of Algernon, and it DOUBLES your first level mage spells (think about how important this is for a Wild Mage with NRD). For the stage of the game in which you get it, that's massive. And you can sell it for 9000 gold! 9000 gold at a point in the game where you likely only have about 100 gold.
Clearly it needs to be removed, right? Or at the very least, it needs to be nerfed so that it only provides 1 extra level 1 spell slot, and only sells for 50 gold.
Or they could leave it in, because it's an awesome item that helps to make level 1 magi tolerable, and people who think the item is too powerful to have (either that early in the game or at all) can choose to not pick it up. I don't always pick it up. I certainly never sell it. But I also don't begrudge anybody else who wants to sell it, because it doesn't affect me. I bet they'd enjoy the game more without selling it for massive amounts of gold, but it's enough for me to say "Hey, I think the game is more fun if you don't sell the ring." I don't feel the need to petition to get the ring removed so that other people can't exploit it.
North-west section of Baldur's Gate there is a woman named Pheirkas (in house just south south-east ish of the doors to Entar's estate) who tells you to steal the cloak from algernon for her.
WOW I never knew this quest existed. I've been hauling this cloak around on Xzar since level 2, now i have something to do with it now that I have a Nymph cloak for Dorn. Huzzah!
When I was a young'un, I used Algernon's cloak to charm the entire population of Beregost (that was fun...once). In BG:Tutu, I used it very sparingly, on average less than once per encounter (when Xan simply couldn't get the job done with his own magic, he relied on that silly cloak).
I have used it at most twice in BG:EE, mostly because it is unnecessary I feel (I didn't even notice it was only once per day until I saw this thread, that's how often I use it ). I am glad it was nerfed though, it always felt like it was too powerful of an item IMO.
A better example is the Ring of Wizardry. Talk about overpowered! Even easier to get than the Cloak of Algernon, and it DOUBLES your first level mage spells (think about how important this is for a Wild Mage with NRD). For the stage of the game in which you get it, that's massive. And you can sell it for 9000 gold! 9000 gold at a point in the game where you likely only have about 100 gold.
Clearly it needs to be removed, right? Or at the very least, it needs to be nerfed so that it only provides 1 extra level 1 spell slot, and only sells for 50 gold.
Or they could leave it in, because it's an awesome item that helps to make level 1 magi tolerable, and people who think the item is too powerful to have (either that early in the game or at all) can choose to not pick it up. I don't always pick it up. I certainly never sell it. But I also don't begrudge anybody else who wants to sell it, because it doesn't affect me. I bet they'd enjoy the game more without selling it for massive amounts of gold, but it's enough for me to say "Hey, I think the game is more fun if you don't sell the ring." I don't feel the need to petition to get the ring removed so that other people can't exploit it.
It would be quite funny if the devs replaced the ring with a cursed variant, though.
Actually, yes. The original had a buggy per/day implementation which allowed this item to underflow from 0 to 65535. Some people tend to report non-bugs as bugs because they don't like something. And some tend to use beneficial bugs. Feel free to restore the original version in your game. But to me, something that turns 65535 from 0 after one use, is simply a bug.
Ah this explains a lot! And at least I can understand this decision from a programmer's point of view now. It was a bug indeed then. I did not give too much attention to the 65535 - but on second though that number represents a 16bit unsigned Integer.
A 16bit unsigned Integer is a data type in computer science that ranges from 0 to 65535.
So what happens if you go below zero at one point? You don't reach -1 but 65535.
Then I googled a bit and found that there were similar exploits in original Infinity Engine games. Like abusing potions, scrolls and wands bringing them to the point below 0 and thus magically have 65535 of them.
Note, that this is - for me at least - a complete different explanation.
Saying it was changed because it was considered too powerful or changing it because yes it was actually not intended even in original BG1 (because it's a bug) is a lot of a difference.
Because the former explanation can be used as a justification for any further nerfs of other items/spells/abilities - whereas the latter one is specific to Algernon's Cloak only respectively to things that are actually bugged.
Absolutely, the ring of wizardry is *meant* to be in-game, whereas Algernon's cloak was genuinly bugged
@Shandyr A similar bug on that list is where you can go behind a wall. Someone reported this as a bug, because one of their partymembers fell in behind a cell door after an area transition. Now, this is clearly a bug, but this bug can be exploited in speedwalks as the above list also mentions. Some people would complain if this bug is fixed, but i tell you, it will be only left unfixed if it is too hard to fix reliably
But, I still don't consider that list a 'hit list' to fix. For example, gaining speed from shapechange is on that list, but that is totally legit. Changing from 0 to 65535 all due to computing limitations has nothing to do with fantastic realism, especially if there is a way to create limitless charges that never decrease and always work.
Thanks @Avenger_teambg for explaining this. It is now completely reasonable. I change it back it was, because I'm simply used to it the way it was in BG.
I'm glad it wasn't changed because it was "considered too much overpowered". I really dislike appearing tendencies to balance everything, because in my opinion MORE BALANCE DOESN'T MEAN MORE FUN! Especially not in AD&D. And more especially not in BG games which have been played and enjoyed over more than a decade now.
The game, as is now, can be played in a way any individual prefers. It is possible to cheat, exploit, use cheese as well as it is possible NOT TO.
With this in mind I would like everyone concerned to think about that it might wrong to impose your way of playing BG on others by shouting to nerf things or otherwise force general change to the game, because while it is the right way for you, it is certainly not the right way for everyone, and you certainly are able to play and enjoy this game as it is now with, as was mentioned earlier, exercising just a little self-restraint.
It doesn't, really, for a non-expert player, since the spell allows a save, and the deeper you get into the game, the more useless save-or-die magic becomes.
Okay, the rest is now largely irrelevant now it's come to light this was a bug, not a "balancing", but that? Bass ackwards. HP scales faster than saves do, so Save or Sucks, coupled with beauties like Glitterdust (in itself a save-or-suck) and Greater Malison can instantly and efficiently win the combat for you. Entire fights can be trivialised with the right save-or-die, leave the damage dealing to the lesser classes.
Yes, there is a considerable difference between an item being buggy, and a community-driven decision to nerf something. Bug fixes are fine. Making changes to my game based on how other players think I should be playing is not fine. I got the distinct impression from @Tanthalas that this change to the cloak was due to the latter. Very happy to hear that's not the case, and I hope that it will NEVER be the case for an issue like this.
Interesting about the Ring of Wizardry. I'm using it on my sorcerer, currently, and it's awfully nice to have all those Identify spells and Sleep spells and Magic Missile spells. If they took it out, it wouldn't really bother me that much, though. I'd just have to rest more often.
It's really hard to find if you don't already know how. I had to look it up on YouTube, and actually pause that video, put it and the game up, and toggle back and forth several times before I found the right spot on the map, and that exact, tiny little pixel.
Now is actually the first time I've ever used it in all these years of playing, since 1998. I think it was meant to be a very, very rare find, and possibly even was put there to encourage people to buy a guide book. Yes, back then, the internet was still young, most people still had excruciatingly slow dial-up connections, and you couldn't just go to Google or YouTube or a forum and get instant information about every Easter egg in every game.
Anyway, I'm glad so many people are seeing the Cloak issue as a bugfix now.
The item was a gimmick. It is okay to use it if you want but it was basically an exploit. If you think you can play hardcore mode with the cloak you pretty much have zero credibility.
The item was a gimmick. It is okay to use it if you want but it was basically an exploit. If you think you can play hardcore mode with the cloak you pretty much have zero credibility.
Agreed, but once a day usage (as now) is not nearly so cheesy, basically the same as Safana's innate in BGEE
Comments
Fact is, they took a fun easter egg item and made it not fun anymore. They successfully jacked up an item that could change the game experience for those who chose to use it. For christ sake, you had to pretty much get lucky to find it yourself, or look it up...and at that point, you already had a conscious decision to use the crap out of it the way the original dev's left it.
EDIT: Just looked it up. Played through many times and didn't even know the quest existed. I used the term "easter egg" lightly, simply because of its power, and the fact that without looking it up, it is something that is easily missed. The fact that you have to now rest in between uses makes it more of an annoying change for the worse than anything.
This is drastically overpowered and makes the prologue sequence in Candlekeep unacceptably winnable.
Also, the Shield of Balduran needs to be added to the prologue sequence in Candlekeep, along with a beholder against which it can be tested. As valued WotC product identity, a beholder or beholder-kin is contractually required to appear in the prologues of all licensed D&D games, or else.
Hmm, this may be the wrong sequence of events. Ah well!
When they nerfed Algernon's Smelly Ol' Cloak to -5 CHA, did the Stinking Cloud become a constant effect like it should be, or is it still 3/day?
Personally in most games, though, I tend to only use it for the Charisma buff, otherwise things get too easy and boring quickly
Since it recharges upon resting there's no need for shop shenanigans. However, I imagine if you tried to sell it after exhausting its use for the day you will not get much for it.
It appears that the BG:EE devs made a decision that, imo, affects new players only. This target audience has no idea what a Cloak of Algernon is or why it more or less breaks the game for an expert player.
It doesn't, really, for a non-expert player, since the spell allows a save, and the deeper you get into the game, the more useless save-or-die magic becomes.
It looks to me like the devs decided to remove something from the potential experience of their new target audience, that was not meant to be discovered until very, very late in the game, and only for the lucky few who find that house in Baldur's Gate, or for "evil" characters who go around robbing and killing everybody in sight, and those were meant to be facing the Flaming Fist and probably killed over and over.
As for "old", experienced players, the "evil" among us have been heading straight for Algernon's Cloak from day one of the game, and using it for the whole game to create their own special "god mode", for years. Hey, if that kind of thing appeals to you, great. You can still do it. Just edit the item, and go to town. Anybody with enough expertise in this game to know how to obtain and abuse Algernon's Cloak straight out of Candlekeep, surely has enough expertise in this game to edit the item back to "god mode".
The whole "Algernon's Cloak equals GodMode, Yay" thing is a massive game spoiler for new players. It's a game spoiler that has now been removed, and I support the decision.
Clearly it needs to be removed, right? Or at the very least, it needs to be nerfed so that it only provides 1 extra level 1 spell slot, and only sells for 50 gold.
Or they could leave it in, because it's an awesome item that helps to make level 1 magi tolerable, and people who think the item is too powerful to have (either that early in the game or at all) can choose to not pick it up. I don't always pick it up. I certainly never sell it. But I also don't begrudge anybody else who wants to sell it, because it doesn't affect me. I bet they'd enjoy the game more without selling it for massive amounts of gold, but it's enough for me to say "Hey, I think the game is more fun if you don't sell the ring." I don't feel the need to petition to get the ring removed so that other people can't exploit it.
When I was a young'un, I used Algernon's cloak to charm the entire population of Beregost (that was fun...once). In BG:Tutu, I used it very sparingly, on average less than once per encounter (when Xan simply couldn't get the job done with his own magic, he relied on that silly cloak).
I have used it at most twice in BG:EE, mostly because it is unnecessary I feel (I didn't even notice it was only once per day until I saw this thread, that's how often I use it
A similar bug on that list is where you can go behind a wall. Someone reported this as a bug, because one of their partymembers fell in behind a cell door after an area transition.
Now, this is clearly a bug, but this bug can be exploited in speedwalks as the above list also mentions.
Some people would complain if this bug is fixed, but i tell you, it will be only left unfixed if it is too hard to fix reliably
But, I still don't consider that list a 'hit list' to fix. For example, gaining speed from shapechange is on that list, but that is totally legit. Changing from 0 to 65535 all due to computing limitations has nothing to do with fantastic realism, especially if there is a way to create limitless charges that never decrease and always work.
I'm glad it wasn't changed because it was "considered too much overpowered". I really dislike appearing tendencies to balance everything, because in my opinion MORE BALANCE DOESN'T MEAN MORE FUN! Especially not in AD&D. And more especially not in BG games which have been played and enjoyed over more than a decade now.
The game, as is now, can be played in a way any individual prefers. It is possible to cheat, exploit, use cheese as well as it is possible NOT TO.
With this in mind I would like everyone concerned to think about that it might wrong to impose your way of playing BG on others by shouting to nerf things or otherwise force general change to the game, because while it is the right way for you, it is certainly not the right way for everyone, and you certainly are able to play and enjoy this game as it is now with, as was mentioned earlier, exercising just a little self-restraint.
It's really hard to find if you don't already know how. I had to look it up on YouTube, and actually pause that video, put it and the game up, and toggle back and forth several times before I found the right spot on the map, and that exact, tiny little pixel.
Now is actually the first time I've ever used it in all these years of playing, since 1998. I think it was meant to be a very, very rare find, and possibly even was put there to encourage people to buy a guide book. Yes, back then, the internet was still young, most people still had excruciatingly slow dial-up connections, and you couldn't just go to Google or YouTube or a forum and get instant information about every Easter egg in every game.
Anyway, I'm glad so many people are seeing the Cloak issue as a bugfix now.
"Excuse me sir, but would you mind stepping over there for a moment? My associates and I need to peruse your belongings for anything of value."
Victim: "Sure! No problem buddy!"
Make it petrify whoever puts it on.