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Karoug: No-Solution Event

IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
edited December 2012 in BG:EE Bugs (v1.2)
I am on the isle of TotSC and trying to kill Karoug (the greater werewolf). My character is quite overpowered, but with the dagger vs lycanthropes I am able to do about 15 damage per hit against him. Problem he seems to regenerate to full health within a few seconds. Is this normal or is it a bug?

Post edited by Dee on
«13456

Comments

  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Ah sorry, the bastard sword did the trick. Still strange that my +3 staff and +3 short sword couldn't hit him though..

  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 812
    edited December 2012
    IkMarc said:

    Ah sorry, the bastard sword did the trick. Still strange that my +3 staff and +3 short sword couldn't hit him though..

    Tried figuring out the whole spoiler thing but couldn't so fuck it

    from gamebanshee

    The only weapons which harm him are the following: Bastard Sword "Kondar"(you can find 2 of them: 1 on Aldeth Sashenstar and 1 in Ulgoth's Beard), Silver Dagger - Werebane(found on 2nd level of this ship), Long Sword +1, "Flame tongue"(found on 5th basement level of Durlag's tower) and the Sword of Balduran(found on this level of the ship in Balduran's desk)

    Post edited by Coriander on
  • LeronisLeronis Member Posts: 112
    The encounter is broken. I shot him with 50 charges of fireball from outside the fog of war, doing a heck of a lot more than 5 damage per round. Stealthed right back in and moused over him and he is unharmed. This with difficulty set to minimum.

    Please actually fix the regen bug. Also, it would be better DungeonMastering to nerf his regen depending on how many NPCs are in the party: 1/round if solo, 2/round if charname + 1 player or NPC, and so on. Everyone is posting about super buffing their full party to finally beat him, and well grats, but us solos can't get off the island without cheats.

  • EnterHaerDalisEnterHaerDalis Member Posts: 812
    Leronis said:

    The encounter is broken. I shot him with 50 charges of fireball from outside the fog of war, doing a heck of a lot more than 5 damage per round. Stealthed right back in and moused over him and he is unharmed. This with difficulty set to minimum.

    Please actually fix the regen bug. Also, it would be better DungeonMastering to nerf his regen depending on how many NPCs are in the party: 1/round if solo, 2/round if charname + 1 player or NPC, and so on. Everyone is posting about super buffing their full party to finally beat him, and well grats, but us solos can't get off the island without cheats.

    The encounter is not broken, and there is no regen bug. He is a Greater Wolfwere.

    Did you even bother to read that he can only be killed with certain weapons??

    Just because you bit off far more than you can chew with your Solo run doesn't mean it's broken, or bugged.

    Quartz
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Leronis said:

    The encounter is broken. I shot him with 50 charges of fireball from outside the fog of war, doing a heck of a lot more than 5 damage per round. Stealthed right back in and moused over him and he is unharmed. This with difficulty set to minimum.

    Please actually fix the regen bug. Also, it would be better DungeonMastering to nerf his regen depending on how many NPCs are in the party: 1/round if solo, 2/round if charname + 1 player or NPC, and so on. Everyone is posting about super buffing their full party to finally beat him, and well grats, but us solos can't get off the island without cheats.

    Based on the info in other threads, his regen isn't 5hp/round, it's 5hp/second. You need to do a hell of a lot more damage than what the wand of fireball can accomplish. I don't think the regen bug still exists.

    I took him out without too much trouble through a combination of backstabs with the flaming longsword and flamestrike-wand shots. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to take him on solo, though a few people have pointed out some good ideas in the solo cleric thread.

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    edited December 2012
    @Leronis

    Greater wolfweres have 50% magic fire resistance, along with 50% fire resistance (not to mention a good save vs. spells). So using fireball is probably not the best strategy given his regeneration.

  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    edited December 2012
    Leronis said:

    The encounter is broken. I shot him with 50 charges of fireball from outside the fog of war, doing a heck of a lot more than 5 damage per round. Stealthed right back in and moused over him and he is unharmed. This with difficulty set to minimum.

    Please actually fix the regen bug. Also, it would be better DungeonMastering to nerf his regen depending on how many NPCs are in the party: 1/round if solo, 2/round if charname + 1 player or NPC, and so on. Everyone is posting about super buffing their full party to finally beat him, and well grats, but us solos can't get off the island without cheats.

    What class and level are you soloing?

  • LeronisLeronis Member Posts: 112
    No need for stuff like "Did you even bother to read that he can only be killed with certain weapons??" I've read at least four threads on this board on this topic.

    You can turn on the rolls and see for your self the best DPS options. My toon can not equip the wand of flame strike, the bastard sword, drink strength pots, backstab (swashee), and so on.

    He saves vs wands on a 6 and takes quarter damage of about 5.5, or doesn't save and takes half damage of about 11. He does not have MR, and always takes half or quarter damage. One ingenious player posted about positioning him so lightning bolt repeatedly strikes him, but it's otherwise difficult to imagine better SUSTAINED deeps from a mage.

    If the mob regens 30 HP/sec then the encounter is broke, because only bigger parties or particular solo builds can hope to kill him. That's so out of character with the rest of the game, that it's gotta be a mistake. I'm supposing it is intended to be 5 HP regen per round and it is bugged higher.

  • DeucetipherDeucetipher Member Posts: 521
    Additionally, Albruin+1 is effective.

    Quartz
  • SandmanSandman Member Posts: 73
    My party ran over every boss on that island with no problems. I don't know what happened but I just rolled through the encounter with Karoug rather easily, didn't even have to restart once. I actually had more problems with the regular werewolves, which are supposedly only 420xp but do up to 20 damage a hit and have a THACO of like 10. 420xp for that come on!! :-) Dire wolves/Vampiric wolves and crap have similar if not more xp and I go through them like they aren't even there.

    My protaganist is a human Beserker Fighter with two ranks in two-handed specialty and four ranks in two-handed sword on top of a 19 strength. He does most of the killing for the group. I thought he ended up killing Karoug with his Spider Bane sword but I can't remember. I do know that I didn't have the dagger equipped but my Paladin did have that bastard sword vs lycans equipped. Maybe he took Karoug out? Idk we all just swarmed on him after we took out the mage and stuff. I did only attack Karoug with only my fighter characters. I didn't bother bringing the other party members into the fight because their AC is not low enough and would die fast with their little amount of HP. Potions of giant strength and haste work great in about any situation.

  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Leronis said:

    No need for stuff like "Did you even bother to read that he can only be killed with certain weapons??" I've read at least four threads on this board on this topic.

    You can turn on the rolls and see for your self the best DPS options. My toon can not equip the wand of flame strike, the bastard sword, drink strength pots, backstab (swashee), and so on.

    He saves vs wands on a 6 and takes quarter damage of about 5.5, or doesn't save and takes half damage of about 11. He does not have MR, and always takes half or quarter damage. One ingenious player posted about positioning him so lightning bolt repeatedly strikes him, but it's otherwise difficult to imagine better SUSTAINED deeps from a mage.

    If the mob regens 30 HP/sec then the encounter is broke, because only bigger parties or particular solo builds can hope to kill him. That's so out of character with the rest of the game, that it's gotta be a mistake. I'm supposing it is intended to be 5 HP regen per round and it is bugged higher.

    I'm no developer, and I don't claim to know what the "official" regeneration is supposed to be. All I know is, for all the talk of the GWW being an impossibly difficult fight that I've heard over the years, I took him out on my first ever try.

    Yes, I had a party, and yes, that party was capable of using many of the tools that your solo character apparently doesn't have access to. The challenge of playing a solo character, however, is to overcome obstacles designed to be met by a full party. It may be true that the GWW is only supposed to regenerate 5hp/round, but I would be disappointed to learn that, as it would make the encounter fairly trivial for most groups that reach it.

    If you're soloing a swashie, you're accepting the lack of magic, certain weapon skills, and backstabbing capability, among other things. There may yet be a way to kill this guy for you to find, and I'm sorry that you haven't found that answer yet. But, at the risk of sounding rude, wanting every encounter in the game, optional or not, to be surmountable by a solo character of any given class is absurd.

    elminsterQuartz
  • LeronisLeronis Member Posts: 112
    edited December 2012
    @Madhax who said "wanting every encounter in the game, optional or not, to be surmountable by a solo character of any given class is absurd."

    That is exactly the point. Every other encounter in BG1, BG2, NWN1, NWN2 is soloable by a variety of classes. That is a big reason why hardcore players cherish these games.

    This encounter is not soloable because the regen is excessive. Failing this battle means your solo can't leave Balduran's isle. Difficult is great, very difficult is very great, but mathematically impossible is just bad DMing.

    ImTheLaw
  • MessiMessi Member Posts: 738
    Leronis said:

    @Madhax who said "wanting every encounter in the game, optional or not, to be surmountable by a solo character of any given class is absurd."

    That is exactly the point. Every other encounter in BG1, BG2, NWN1, NWN2 is soloable by a variety of classes. That is why hardcore players like to solo these games.

    This encounter is not soloable because the regen is excessive. Failing this battle means your solo can't leave Balduran's isle. Difficult is great, very difficult is very great, but mathematically impossible is just bad DMing.

    This game was never balanced with solo in mind. If there is a bug with his regen that should be fixed, but setting arbitrary handicaps for yourself has never been the basis for balance in these games.

    Also I just killed him yesterday myself on my second try(with a party of course). I probably could have done it on the first try but it's been so long since I last played this game I didn't even realize I was entering his room the first time. Aec'Ietec and Sarevok are both much more difficult fights than this, if you aren't gimping yourself on purpose anyway.

  • ImTheLawImTheLaw Member Posts: 10
    I had a hard time too kill him with my overpowerd figther/mage/thief, level max imported from the black pits.

    There are two big problems with this encouter :
    1) There is no store on the island. (you can't buy potions...)
    2) You can't escape from the island if he's not dead.

    To kill him I had to use the strength potions from the boat, bhaal's power to get 25 strength, the dague to backstab him and the sword of the balduran in second hand (maybe I shifted after the first backstab). The cloack that gives greater haste, magic missiles. And other things I don't remember. I aslo killed his minions, got out to rest and fought him alone.

  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 685
    Is Karoug that thing on the ship wreck?

    Lexicus
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Leronis said:

    @Madhax who said "wanting every encounter in the game, optional or not, to be surmountable by a solo character of any given class is absurd."

    That is exactly the point. Every other encounter in BG1, BG2, NWN1, NWN2 is soloable by a variety of classes. That is a big reason why hardcore players cherish these games.

    This encounter is not soloable because the regen is excessive. Failing this battle means your solo can't leave Balduran's isle. Difficult is great, very difficult is very great, but mathematically impossible is just bad DMing.

    But there's no DM. It's a video game. You can't expect a video game to anticipate and adjust to the imposed restrictions you've placed upon yourself.

    I wouldn't know how the NWN games work because I've never played them, but I've played the hell out of BG1 and BG2. And a solo thief, while possible, tends to rely on UAI, backstab, and traps. You can't get UAI in BG1, and you can't backstab as a swashbuckler... so I hope you've been putting points in Set Traps, because that seems like the only way you're getting off this island.

  • and_then_orand_then_or Member Posts: 107
    @ImTheLaw

    I'm soloing right now and reading these threads for tips.

    -By 'Bhaals Power' do you mean the 'Draw Upon Holy Might' special ability (icon w/ the fist holding a lightning bolt)?

    -Do you reacall where you got that cloak / are you using mods or just straight BG:EE?

    - What class(es) where you soloing?

    Thanks-

  • GruloGrulo Member Posts: 109
    Damn the WoW generation... as soon as they find something too hard they cry "NERF!!!!". And seriously.... asking for nerfs in a Baldur's Gate game????!!!!! These players should be burnt in the abyss.

    I hope devs don't listen. If they start dumbing down the game ill just go back to BGTutu.

    and_then_orQuartz
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 483
    Grulo said:

    Damn the WoW generation... as soon as they find something too hard they cry "NERF!!!!". And seriously.... asking for nerfs in a Baldur's Gate game????!!!!! These players should be burnt

    Damn straight!

  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    Leronis said:

    One ingenious player posted about positioning him so lightning bolt repeatedly strikes him, but it's otherwise difficult to imagine better SUSTAINED deeps from a mage.

    I posted about that. The problem was that he was repeatedly struck by the lightning bolt but only took damage the first time he was hit which meant that he regenerated everything by the next round so this technique wasn't effective. I'm not sure why he didn't take damage repeatedly (that little room at the top allows for a lot of bounces in a short time) but he only took damage once from a lightning bolt.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,834

    The encounter is not broken, and there is no regen bug. He is a Greater Wolfwere.

    Did you even bother to read that he can only be killed with certain weapons??

    Just because you bit off far more than you can chew with your Solo run doesn't mean it's broken, or bugged.

    Oh my gosh. *Laughs*

    I just about died reading this. I agree completely and the way you put it is so damn harsh, but so true.

    elminster
  • ImTheLawImTheLaw Member Posts: 10
    edited December 2012
    @and_then_or

    @ImTheLaw

    I'm soloing right now and reading these threads for tips.

    -By 'Bhaals Power' do you mean the 'Draw Upon Holy Might' special ability (icon w/ the fist holding a lightning bolt)?

    -Do you reacall where you got that cloak / are you using mods or just straight BG:EE?

    - What class(es) where you soloing?

    Thanks-

    I don't use mods. Yes it's Draw upon holy might' (I forgot the English name ^^). My character was a multiclass FMT. The cloak, the character and almost all his items were imported from the Black Pits. That's why his level (8/9/10 I think) was also higher than the level you can reach in the normal game. I was just running through the game as fast as possible, collecting items, when I realised I never knew about the island!

    Also, think do drink the potion FIRST and then use 'Draw Upon Holy Might', if I remember well you can't reach 25 if you drink the potion after.

    and_then_or
  • and_then_orand_then_or Member Posts: 107
    @YouAreTheLaw

    Thanks for the reply. I still haven't done the Black Pits yet and that cloak you mentioned had me all, you know, ummm, what's that interweb thingy, ahhhhh, wtf.

  • LeronisLeronis Member Posts: 112
    edited December 2012
    Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not some "WOW generation" crybaby screaming nerf. I solo because I enjoy challenge, not because I don't. Prolly most gamers that solo are like minded challenge seekers.

    This is the only encounter in the BG NWN games that can't be soloed (except perhaps, by imba fighters). It's not just very difficult to solo, it is a no-win scenario. It employs a DPS>regen test to pass, and only a pretty full party can aggregate enough damage to succeed. Fail and the solo must reload and skip Balduran's Isle entirely, or console/cheat.

    A fix that prorates the regen by party size would not affect your full party game. It would enhance the solo player's experience. The DM/designer should consider max sustainable deeps from each class when setting the min regen.

    I don't want games to "scale to my level", be accessible... This encounter, however, is broke. That's why it keeps launching threads.

    Thunder
  • IkMarcIkMarc Member Posts: 552
    Leronis said:

    Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not some "WOW generation" crybaby screaming nerf. I solo because I enjoy challenge, not because I don't. Prolly most gamers that solo are like minded challenge seekers.

    This is the only encounter in the BG NWN games that can't be soloed (except perhaps, by imba fighters). It's not just very difficult to solo, it is impossible. It employs a DPS>regen test to pass, and only a pretty full party can aggregate enough damage to succeed. Fail and the solo must reload and skip Balduran's Isle entirely, or console/cheat.

    A fix that prorates the regen by party size would not affect your full party game. It would enhance the solo player's experience. The DM/designer should consider max sustainable deeps from each class when setting the min regen.

    I don't want games to "scale to my level", be accessible... This encounter, however, is broke. That's why it keeps launching threads.

    With one character with decent damage and the right weapon you can kill him. Even in a party you would only be hitting him with a few of your characters nonetheless, because of the limited weapons you would have that actually hurt him.

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Potions of Firebreathing are useable by every character, and deal 6D10 damage twice in two rounds in a line, meaning an average of 15 HP over six seconds or so if the Wolfwere saves, and can be layered, getting about 12D10 damage in a line per turn - thereby dealing with any additional enemies while you're at it.

    Karoug, and other Greater Wolfweres, regenerate 30 HP per round, but only have 66 HP, two Potions of Firebreathing at worst overcome most of their regeneration, at best kill them outright. With enough potions of firebreathing, even soloers with no Traps, no capacity for multiple attacks per round, or no ability to layer fifty-seven skull traps should be able to take them out.

    Temporary
  • VnavekulVnavekul Member Posts: 170
    Let a mod do that work indeed. Making it more solo-friendly if needed.

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