I think this game is bullshit and needs to be nerfed ASAP!
In my solo run with my halfling vanilla fighter with 2 strength I can't seem to hit the Xvarts before they kill me and proceed to rape my corpse. IF I CAN'T PLAY A HALFLING FIGHTER WITH 2 STRENGTH THEN THE GAME MUST BE BUGGED WTFLMAOROFLCOPTER!!!!1!1!one!
@Pantalion Right. 6 second rounds and 5HP/sec greater wolfwere spec is 30.
6d10 is an expected 33 damage. Times 2 for haste, but divided by 2 for his 50% fire resist is still a mean of 33, and that assumes he doesn't save vs breath. Subtract 30 regen per round is just 3, so wearing him down this way will take a very long string of failed saves. Rolling 66 on 12d10/2 and killing him outright is not possible, cuz rolling all 10s is only 120/2=60. Still, if you cheat in a tonne of firepots, the combination of wearing him down and finishing move will work out eventually.
The skull trap idea is intriguing, especially if the unmentioned damage type bypasses his elemental immunity. Even if mages and trap thieves could out-cheese the DM, what about cleric solos? Thankz! Gotta try this out some day. Does his damaged animation prevent him from triggering enough traps in a round?
@IkMarc Only Fighters are allowed to drink those buff pots and hope to deal more than 30 damage every single round. Solo clerics can't even wield the required weapons.
Takes a party to get past 30/round. Too bad for you if you like to solo.
@IkMarc Only Fighters are allowed to drink those buff pots and hope to deal more than 30 damage every single round. Solo clerics can't even wield the required weapons.
Takes a party to get past 30/round. Too bad for you if you like to solo.
Hm what I could think of is applying damage over time with the poison spell and potions of Firebreath. Then with your buffed up Cleric swing for the fence. Are there any other ways for damage over time?
@Leronis - Remember that 'tis two lots of 33 damage, for you are using two potions at once; the tail end of one potion is dealing damage atop the beginning of the next, because it works like Aganazzar's and hits twice over two full rounds or so. If Haste allows you to drop two potions in a single round by doing nothing else, that ought to mean three potions active at once, or a follow-up to a lucky crit to get you started. You might still flop with only the seven or eight guaranteed potions the game gives you, which is murder for a hardcore run, but you're not going to get much better otherwise (though I seem to recall the dagger of venom should stack against him, it works against Ulcaster after all).
Also remember that it's not just a case of wearing him down gradually; if he ends up on 30 Health at the end of a turn, then so long as he takes 30 damage there and then, he dies without the opportunity to regenerate.
Clerics have always had the worst time of it; their only suitable option is a thousand Glyph's of Warding - literally around a thousand. Ranger/Clerics might have some limited luck if they can stack Poison + Insect Plague to try and overcome his regeneration with DoTs, or get outdoors to get a 9D8 call lightning to help, but yeah, generally it's a thousand Glyphs of Warding or learning to swim.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not some "WOW generation" crybaby screaming nerf. I solo because I enjoy challenge, not because I don't. Prolly most gamers that solo are like minded challenge seekers.
This is the only encounter in the BG NWN games that can't be soloed (except perhaps, by imba fighters). It's not just very difficult to solo, it is a no-win scenario. It employs a DPS>regen test to pass, and only a pretty full party can aggregate enough damage to succeed. Fail and the solo must reload and skip Balduran's Isle entirely, or console/cheat.
A fix that prorates the regen by party size would not affect your full party game. It would enhance the solo player's experience. The DM/designer should consider max sustainable deeps from each class when setting the min regen.
I don't want games to "scale to my level", be accessible... This encounter, however, is broke. That's why it keeps launching threads.
Sorry, but that's BS. A lot of people have succesfully killed Karoug (in a party or solo), so the encounter is by no means impossible. I know for a fact i have never been trapped in the island. Yeah, he has killed me many times, but after adjusting my strategy and spells i kill him fairly easily.
Most "hard" fights in Baldur's Gate are just like that: they look impossible, but when you do the right things it turns out the fight was much easier than you thought. The reason this encounter keeps "launching" threads is because some guys want everything in a silver platter. They keep dying to this encounter, but they :
a) Refuse to go gain more levels/better gear before trying the Werewolf island.
b) Don't want to group with some NPCs when it is pretty clear they are unable to solo the island
c) Refuse to get better. Lots of people think they are the best players in the world; therefore, if they can't win a battle, it means the encounter is broken. There is simply no way they are dying because of lack of skill (at least, in their minds). Clearly the encounter needs to be nerfed.
e) All of the above
Are you even aware that the island is part of "Tales of the Sword Coast"? TotSC is the expansion to vanilla Baldur's Gate. Therefore, most of its content is end-game, meant to be cleared by high-level parties. I bet most of the people failing at Karoug are solo players around level 3-5.
@Pantalion I didn't forget "Remember that 'tis two lots of 33 damage". He takes half damage from fire, so you still expect 33 per round hasted. It should work, it just requires a lot of consecutive failed saves. It's the nature of statistics that low odds can be trumped by many trials.
I don't follow how you get 3 pots working between regens. Firebreath pots say nothing about DOTing.
Pretty sure the venom dagger gets you "weapon ineffective." It's not silver cold iron.
@IkMarc "Are there any other ways for damage over time?" Acid Arrow, Cloudkill, Summoning mage spells. I can't remember any cleric DOTs.
Cloudkill then Melfs, next round run him over your skull traps and firebreath. Then reload and recruit a party:)
"Then with your buffed up Cleric swing for the fence." Clerics can't wield any weapon that hurts him.
@Pantalion Right. 6 second rounds and 5HP/sec greater wolfwere spec is 30.
6d10 is an expected 33 damage. Times 2 for haste, but divided by 2 for his 50% fire resist is still a mean of 33, and that assumes he doesn't save vs breath. Subtract 30 regen per round is just 3, so wearing him down this way will take a very long string of failed saves. Rolling 66 on 12d10/2 and killing him outright is not possible, cuz rolling all 10s is only 120/2=60. Still, if you cheat in a tonne of firepots, the combination of wearing him down and finishing move will work out eventually.
The skull trap idea is intriguing, especially if the unmentioned damage type bypasses his elemental immunity. Even if mages and trap thieves could out-cheese the DM, what about cleric solos? Thankz! Gotta try this out some day. Does his damaged animation prevent him from triggering enough traps in a round?
@IkMarc Only Fighters are allowed to drink those buff pots and hope to deal more than 30 damage every single round. Solo clerics can't even wield the required weapons.
Takes a party to get past 30/round. Too bad for you if you like to solo.
Skull traps for a mage absolutely work.
Traps for a thieve would absolutely work.
A ton of glyphs of warding combined with doom would work for a cleric.
As long as you are willing to go the cheese route, this can be done by pretty much any class.
I solo'd a F/M/C and did it by dropping say 20 skull traps by the cabin outside the ship and then leading him out. He only has 50% resistance against fire so there is no elemental consideration and he was easily killed by this. (There were a bunch of skull traps left over so I had to summon ghasts to get rid of them safely).
Since he is vulnerable to lightning bolt, you should be able to nail him with a ton of glyphs of warding without any problem. The difference between the glyphs and the skull trap is that he takes no damage if he makes the save against the glyphs so you probably want to doom him first to increase your odds. If you lay enough of them down (you can lay down an unlimited number by casting them, resting in the cabin and then repeating) as a solo cleric you can also cast protection from lightning and use that to set them off. Again, I haven't tested this but don't see why it wouldn't work given his vulnerability to the lightning bolts.
@AHF "Since he is vulnerable to lightning bolt," Nope 50% immunity, so twice as many die 4s.
@Grulo I for one am level capped and greatly geared, and can pass for sound mind on some days. That won't help you solo this encounter. You will need heaping piles of exploits and cheese, or a Fighter. So Fuck me if I don't want to play that way, right?
It doesn't *say* it's a DoT, but it does in practice deal two distinct "ticks" of damage over a round, and one of those ticks in testing dealt 24 damage when halved.
Since the Dagger of Venom's poison effect even works against the invulnerable Ghost Knights in Firewine last I heard, I'd be surprised if the poison didn't work against a Greater Wolfwere, I'll be sure to test it on my current run though.
@AHF "Since he is vulnerable to lightning bolt," Nope 50% immunity, so twice as many die 4s.
@Grulo I for one am level capped and greatly geared, and can pass for sound mind on some days. That won't help you solo this encounter. You will need heaping piles of exploits and cheese, or a Fighter. So Fuck me if I don't want to play that way, right?
Pretty much, yeah. Fuck you, and stop asking devs to waste their time "fixing" something that doesnt need to be fixed.
@AHF "Since he is vulnerable to lightning bolt," Nope 50% immunity, so twice as many die 4s.
That is vulnerable to electrical damage. If you drop 30 glyphs of warding at level 8 that is:
8d4 = avg 20 damage with 50% immunity = 10 damage
If his chance of saving after being doomed is 75%, that means with 30 glyphs you get an average of 7-8 failed saves which is 70-80 damage and enough to take him down.
Don't like those odds? Spend more time layering 60 glyphs where he will get bit by an average of 15 glyphs and 150 damage.
It would take immunity like Sarevok has to make this strategy not viable.
There is no question that a solo cleric or mage needs to resort to cheese to get this done. I didn't feel bad about that since that is the only option.
@Grulo I for one am level capped and greatly geared, and can pass for sound mind on some days. That won't help you solo this encounter. You will need heaping piles of exploits and cheese, or a Fighter. So Fuck me if I don't want to play that way, right?
Wasn't your original grievance not being able to take the GWW out by spamming fireballs from beyond the fog of war? Sounds pretty cheesy to me.
I'm still not 100% sure what class you're playing since we seem to be moving back and forth between cleric and swashbuckler strategies here, but any solo class is going to rely on some level of cheese to get through this game. Otherwise, this game would be stupid. I mean, if you're soloing a swashbuckler and avoiding cheese, what's your main strategy? Running through the game fighting everything straight up? You can't backstab...
If your opinion truly is that you don't want to resort to cheese, then I'm understanding your argument less and less.
@Madhax I related an experiment spamming a fireball wand just to illustrate the problem, and show that the regen rate is not 5/round. Nah I don't play that way, hahaha. Using stealth to pull small, some run and gun, and flee screaming, that's the usual extent of my blarney.
My current run is a Swashee 6, dual Mage 9, 80 detect traps and some stealth. It's not about my toon. The encounter should be doable by a variety of solo builds, like all the rest of the encounters in all the rest of these games. This is the one singular and unique and only place in the BG NWN series where the designers play-balanced for large parties but not solos and small parties. Would be OK if it were some optional encounter, just flee and forget, but it's smack in the critical path of Balduran's Isle.
Who says all encounters should be doable by a variety of solo builds? Just because you think it should be that way, it doesn't make it true.
I think it is fair to say that encounters that you cannot walk away from should be doable by solo builds.
If you are talking about a dragon who you can't touch but who you can run away from and move on with your adventure then I 100% agree with you. But once you are on that island, you can't get off without doing the encounter and can't recruit additional party members, etc. that could get you through it. Your game is literally done.
That would be a game design problem if a solo build couldn't handle at all for me.
It needn't even be a solo build, though. If you went to the island with your party and a couple got offed along the way (say you are getting beat up by the werewolves when Neera suddenly misfires on a spell and wastes your party with a wild magic surge), there is no ability to raise your companions from the dead or otherwise regroup and come back at it.
The game leads you towards gathering a party (even if it is just Khalid, Jaheira, and Imoen). There are various points in the game during conversations where the concept of a party/ there being more than one person in your group is brought up. The initial encounter with the guard in Nashkel is off the top of my head one of them "We are the party of ____" or "I am ____ and this is my band of adventurers" not "Yea I'm just some dude. So I hear you need some help?". I'm still not buying the solo argument even if the island is a one way trip.
Who says all encounters should be doable by a variety of solo builds? Just because you think it should be that way, it doesn't make it true.
I think it is fair to say that encounters that you cannot walk away from should be doable by solo builds.
If you are talking about a dragon who you can't touch but who you can run away from and move on with your adventure then I 100% agree with you. But once you are on that island, you can't get off without doing the encounter and can't recruit additional party members, etc. that could get you through it. Your game is literally done.
That would be a game design problem if a solo build couldn't handle at all for me.
It needn't even be a solo build, though. If you went to the island with your party and a couple got offed along the way (say you are getting beat up by the werewolves when Neera suddenly misfires on a spell and wastes your party with a wild magic surge), there is no ability to raise your companions from the dead or otherwise regroup and come back at it.
That is not a game design problem, that simply means you lost. Unfortunately, some people can't deal with this fact. In their heads, there is no way they can lose. So if they end up trapped, they cry "NERF!!".
Next time, have a separate save file before you go to the island. If you are unable to clear it, then gain a couple more levels/better gear before going there. Is it really that hard to understand?
@Grulo who said "Who says all encounters should be doable by a variety of solo builds? Just because you think it should be that way, it doesn't make it true."
Just google "baldur gate solo". These games have a huge reputation for solo joy. Once you have seen all the NPC dialogue, take your game to the next level and give solo a go. I recommend fighter dual cleric as an easy first try. I've soloed em all at least twice except Storm of Zehir and Mysteries of Westgate (didn't own them).
@Grulo who said "Who says all encounters should be doable by a variety of solo builds? Just because you think it should be that way, it doesn't make it true."
Just google "baldur gate solo". These games have a huge reputation for solo joy. Once you have seen all the NPC dialogue, take your game to the next level and give solo a go. I recommend fighter dual cleric as an easy first try. I've soloed em all at least twice except Storm of Zehir and Mysteries of Westgate (didn't own them).
Thanks for answering my question. The PLAYERS are the ones that decide to go solo. NOT the developers. I am sure you have soloed the game with a lot of characters (so have i), but that doesnt mean EVERYONE should be able to do it. In this case, it seems that the OP is simply losing and crying for an unnecessary nerf.
And BTW, the Werewolf island is completely optional. You can finish Baldur's Gate without ever putting one foot in that place, so that's just another proof that this is not bad game design. If you are having so much trouble soloing the island, then simply dont go there.
Who says all encounters should be doable by a variety of solo builds? Just because you think it should be that way, it doesn't make it true.
I think it is fair to say that encounters that you cannot walk away from should be doable by solo builds.
If you are talking about a dragon who you can't touch but who you can run away from and move on with your adventure then I 100% agree with you. But once you are on that island, you can't get off without doing the encounter and can't recruit additional party members, etc. that could get you through it. Your game is literally done.
That would be a game design problem if a solo build couldn't handle at all for me.
It needn't even be a solo build, though. If you went to the island with your party and a couple got offed along the way (say you are getting beat up by the werewolves when Neera suddenly misfires on a spell and wastes your party with a wild magic surge), there is no ability to raise your companions from the dead or otherwise regroup and come back at it.
That is not a game design problem, that simply means you lost. Unfortunately, some people can't deal with this fact. In their heads, there is no way they can lose. So if they end up trapped, they cry "NERF!!".
Next time, have a separate save file before you go to the island. If you are unable to clear it, then gain a couple more levels/better gear before going there. Is it really that hard to understand?
I think it is a problem to offer content that makes the game impossible for any character type without an exit. If you can't beat the Death Knight at the end of Durlag's Tower? Just leave the tower. It is the fact that you are trapped on a one-way ticket to the island that makes this a design problem for me.
But for a cheesy exploit of the glyph of warding spell, it is impossible for a party with several of a Charname F/C, Branwen, Viconia, Quayle, Tiax, and Yeslick to beat this encounter.
The issue with game design is not one of difficulty or challenge. It is the fact that this encounter is unique among all of BG1 and BG2 in that it is: (a) a situation in which the Charname is trapped without any means of escape and (b) it is impossible for many characters to handle without cheesy exploits. The encounter with Sarevok is easier.
I appreciate that reasonable minds can differ but I do have to ask you tone down your commentary a bit. I think it underscores the fact that you are not trying to understand what others are saying and may be just regurgitating your own thoughts when you say:
If you are unable to clear it, then gain a couple more levels/better gear before going there. Is it really that hard to understand?
Really? You are going to condescend to people about not understanding with this statement?
The whole point of this discussion is that you can be max level with every item in the game and still have this encounter with no alternative path or work around other than a cheesy exploit. And your advice is to "gain a few more levels/better gear" and to pretend like it is other people having problems with reading comprehension when the whole issue is that no amount of experience and no combination of gear makes any difference?
Devs obviously do support it, cuz solo mode didn't somehow miraculously evolve by accident. This encounter is the lone rough spot in the entire series, and CTRL-Y solves it easier than that other cheddar.
Op is @IkMarc. I'm the one saying Karoug could be better designed for solos and left unch for big parties. It's the flaw in a masterpiece, like someone took a dump on the Mona Lisa. Just wrong. Needs fixed. Like that.
1) The encounter is optional. You dont need to go to the island in order to finish the game. 2) A lot of people have managed to solo it. So it is by no means impossible. 3) Developers didnt make this game to be soloed. Players are the ones who decide to handicap themselves by soloing. So dont blame them when you have trouble in a certain encounter.
So really, what part dont you understand? Tell me, ill be happy to explain it to you.
1) The encounter is optional. You dont need to go to the island in order to finish the game. 2) A lot of people have managed to solo it. So it is by no means impossible. 3) Developers didnt make this game to be soloed. Players are the ones who decide to handicap themselves by soloing. So dont blame them when you have trouble in a certain encounter.
So really, what part dont you understand? Tell me, ill be happy to explain it to you.
You are just going to absolutely ignore your condescending statement combined with a blatant mistake? No retraction or qualification?
My jaw would drop if I was remotely surprised.
The fact that you don't seem to appreciate that:
1) reasonable minds differ on this 2) this encounter is unique in this regard among all of BG1, TOSC, BG2, and TOB
is not remotely surprising given the level of disrespect and condescenion in your posts. The fact that you recommend getting different gear or leveling up a bit more should be enough to give you pause before you tell yet another poster "you don't understand anything." (Assuming you can come around to understanding why the suggestions in that statement don't accomplish what you suggest they will accomplish for the classes that are being discussed).
What mistake? All i said is true. Game is not designed for solo play, the Werewolf island is optional, and a lot of people have killed Karoug already (in a party and solo).
Next time, before you go to the werewolf island, make a backup save file. If you fail at the island, then either:
a) Your class is not meant to solo this encounter. I already explained this: PLAYERS are the ones that decide if they solo or not. NOT the Devs. They never designed the game for soloing, and AD&D 2nd edition certainly doesn't encourage soloing since there is no such thing as class balance. At least, not the kind of balance you guys are asking for. This is not Diablo or WoW; some classes are inherently better at soloing than others.
b) Your class can solo the encounter, but you are doing something wrong. This is, of course, a L2P issue.
All i see is "waaaaaaaa i cant kill Karoug even though a lot of people have no problems with him, but i am pro brah!!!! clearly he is hackzorz, nerf him!!!!!".
And really, idgaf about your "reasonable minds" or if you have a problem with my "disrespect" since players like you deserve no respect whatsoever.
As a "full party" only-BG player, I would be sad to see my favourtite battle in BG, nerfed - this fight seems like one of the few who actually were made for a well put together party.
But then again if they do so, I'll most likey find a mod that can satisfy my needs, like most who've spent years with this game.
So, we have people in here that are upset that to solo an encounter meant for a party they might have to use some "cheese"? (Glyph of warding / Skull Trap stacking)?
Be thankful you even HAVE the option to cheese that. If your level 6-9 Cleric or Mage walked off on his own in PnP and encountered a greater wolfwere he would die screaming and your DM would laugh at you and hand you dice to reroll.
I didn't read every post in here because it started to turn into a flame war, but am I to understand we have people that believe every encounter should be beatable solo without being cheap? To play solo you area already having to metagame which is a form of cheapness in it self...
Comments
In my solo run with my halfling vanilla fighter with 2 strength I can't seem to hit the Xvarts before they kill me and proceed to rape my corpse. IF I CAN'T PLAY A HALFLING FIGHTER WITH 2 STRENGTH THEN THE GAME MUST BE BUGGED WTFLMAOROFLCOPTER!!!!1!1!one!
Right. 6 second rounds and 5HP/sec greater wolfwere spec is 30.
6d10 is an expected 33 damage. Times 2 for haste, but divided by 2 for his 50% fire resist is still a mean of 33, and that assumes he doesn't save vs breath. Subtract 30 regen per round is just 3, so wearing him down this way will take a very long string of failed saves. Rolling 66 on 12d10/2 and killing him outright is not possible, cuz rolling all 10s is only 120/2=60. Still, if you cheat in a tonne of firepots, the combination of wearing him down and finishing move will work out eventually.
The skull trap idea is intriguing, especially if the unmentioned damage type bypasses his elemental immunity. Even if mages and trap thieves could out-cheese the DM, what about cleric solos? Thankz! Gotta try this out some day. Does his damaged animation prevent him from triggering enough traps in a round?
@IkMarc Only Fighters are allowed to drink those buff pots and hope to deal more than 30 damage every single round. Solo clerics can't even wield the required weapons.
Takes a party to get past 30/round. Too bad for you if you like to solo.
Also remember that it's not just a case of wearing him down gradually; if he ends up on 30 Health at the end of a turn, then so long as he takes 30 damage there and then, he dies without the opportunity to regenerate.
Clerics have always had the worst time of it; their only suitable option is a thousand Glyph's of Warding - literally around a thousand. Ranger/Clerics might have some limited luck if they can stack Poison + Insect Plague to try and overcome his regeneration with DoTs, or get outdoors to get a 9D8 call lightning to help, but yeah, generally it's a thousand Glyphs of Warding or learning to swim.
Most "hard" fights in Baldur's Gate are just like that: they look impossible, but when you do the right things it turns out the fight was much easier than you thought. The reason this encounter keeps "launching" threads is because some guys want everything in a silver platter. They keep dying to this encounter, but they :
a) Refuse to go gain more levels/better gear before trying the Werewolf island.
b) Don't want to group with some NPCs when it is pretty clear they are unable to solo the island
c) Refuse to get better. Lots of people think they are the best players in the world; therefore, if they can't win a battle, it means the encounter is broken. There is simply no way they are dying because of lack of skill (at least, in their minds). Clearly the encounter needs to be nerfed.
e) All of the above
Are you even aware that the island is part of "Tales of the Sword Coast"? TotSC is the expansion to vanilla Baldur's Gate. Therefore, most of its content is end-game, meant to be cleared by high-level parties. I bet most of the people failing at Karoug are solo players around level 3-5.
I didn't forget "Remember that 'tis two lots of 33 damage". He takes half damage from fire, so you still expect 33 per round hasted. It should work, it just requires a lot of consecutive failed saves. It's the nature of statistics that low odds can be trumped by many trials.
I don't follow how you get 3 pots working between regens. Firebreath pots say nothing about DOTing.
Pretty sure the venom dagger gets you "weapon ineffective." It's not silver cold iron.
@IkMarc
"Are there any other ways for damage over time?" Acid Arrow, Cloudkill, Summoning mage spells. I can't remember any cleric DOTs.
Cloudkill then Melfs, next round run him over your skull traps and firebreath. Then reload and recruit a party:)
"Then with your buffed up Cleric swing for the fence." Clerics can't wield any weapon that hurts him.
Traps for a thieve would absolutely work.
A ton of glyphs of warding combined with doom would work for a cleric.
As long as you are willing to go the cheese route, this can be done by pretty much any class.
I solo'd a F/M/C and did it by dropping say 20 skull traps by the cabin outside the ship and then leading him out. He only has 50% resistance against fire so there is no elemental consideration and he was easily killed by this. (There were a bunch of skull traps left over so I had to summon ghasts to get rid of them safely).
Since he is vulnerable to lightning bolt, you should be able to nail him with a ton of glyphs of warding without any problem. The difference between the glyphs and the skull trap is that he takes no damage if he makes the save against the glyphs so you probably want to doom him first to increase your odds. If you lay enough of them down (you can lay down an unlimited number by casting them, resting in the cabin and then repeating) as a solo cleric you can also cast protection from lightning and use that to set them off. Again, I haven't tested this but don't see why it wouldn't work given his vulnerability to the lightning bolts.
"Since he is vulnerable to lightning bolt," Nope 50% immunity, so twice as many die 4s.
@Grulo
I for one am level capped and greatly geared, and can pass for sound mind on some days. That won't help you solo this encounter. You will need heaping piles of exploits and cheese, or a Fighter. So Fuck me if I don't want to play that way, right?
It doesn't *say* it's a DoT, but it does in practice deal two distinct "ticks" of damage over a round, and one of those ticks in testing dealt 24 damage when halved.
Since the Dagger of Venom's poison effect even works against the invulnerable Ghost Knights in Firewine last I heard, I'd be surprised if the poison didn't work against a Greater Wolfwere, I'll be sure to test it on my current run though.
8d4 = avg 20 damage with 50% immunity = 10 damage
If his chance of saving after being doomed is 75%, that means with 30 glyphs you get an average of 7-8 failed saves which is 70-80 damage and enough to take him down.
Don't like those odds? Spend more time layering 60 glyphs where he will get bit by an average of 15 glyphs and 150 damage.
It would take immunity like Sarevok has to make this strategy not viable.
There is no question that a solo cleric or mage needs to resort to cheese to get this done. I didn't feel bad about that since that is the only option.
I for one am level capped and greatly geared, and can pass for sound mind on some days. That won't help you solo this encounter. You will need heaping piles of exploits and cheese, or a Fighter. So Fuck me if I don't want to play that way, right?
Wasn't your original grievance not being able to take the GWW out by spamming fireballs from beyond the fog of war? Sounds pretty cheesy to me.
I'm still not 100% sure what class you're playing since we seem to be moving back and forth between cleric and swashbuckler strategies here, but any solo class is going to rely on some level of cheese to get through this game. Otherwise, this game would be stupid. I mean, if you're soloing a swashbuckler and avoiding cheese, what's your main strategy? Running through the game fighting everything straight up? You can't backstab...
If your opinion truly is that you don't want to resort to cheese, then I'm understanding your argument less and less.
I related an experiment spamming a fireball wand just to illustrate the problem, and show that the regen rate is not 5/round. Nah I don't play that way, hahaha. Using stealth to pull small, some run and gun, and flee screaming, that's the usual extent of my blarney.
My current run is a Swashee 6, dual Mage 9, 80 detect traps and some stealth. It's not about my toon. The encounter should be doable by a variety of solo builds, like all the rest of the encounters in all the rest of these games. This is the one singular and unique and only place in the BG NWN series where the designers play-balanced for large parties but not solos and small parties. Would be OK if it were some optional encounter, just flee and forget, but it's smack in the critical path of Balduran's Isle.
If you are talking about a dragon who you can't touch but who you can run away from and move on with your adventure then I 100% agree with you. But once you are on that island, you can't get off without doing the encounter and can't recruit additional party members, etc. that could get you through it. Your game is literally done.
That would be a game design problem if a solo build couldn't handle at all for me.
It needn't even be a solo build, though. If you went to the island with your party and a couple got offed along the way (say you are getting beat up by the werewolves when Neera suddenly misfires on a spell and wastes your party with a wild magic surge), there is no ability to raise your companions from the dead or otherwise regroup and come back at it.
Next time, have a separate save file before you go to the island. If you are unable to clear it, then gain a couple more levels/better gear before going there. Is it really that hard to understand?
Just google "baldur gate solo". These games have a huge reputation for solo joy. Once you have seen all the NPC dialogue, take your game to the next level and give solo a go. I recommend fighter dual cleric as an easy first try. I've soloed em all at least twice except Storm of Zehir and Mysteries of Westgate (didn't own them).
And BTW, the Werewolf island is completely optional. You can finish Baldur's Gate without ever putting one foot in that place, so that's just another proof that this is not bad game design. If you are having so much trouble soloing the island, then simply dont go there.
But for a cheesy exploit of the glyph of warding spell, it is impossible for a party with several of a Charname F/C, Branwen, Viconia, Quayle, Tiax, and Yeslick to beat this encounter.
The issue with game design is not one of difficulty or challenge. It is the fact that this encounter is unique among all of BG1 and BG2 in that it is: (a) a situation in which the Charname is trapped without any means of escape and (b) it is impossible for many characters to handle without cheesy exploits. The encounter with Sarevok is easier.
I appreciate that reasonable minds can differ but I do have to ask you tone down your commentary a bit.
I think it underscores the fact that you are not trying to understand what others are saying and may be just regurgitating your own thoughts when you say:
If you are unable to clear it, then gain a couple more levels/better gear before going there. Is it really that hard to understand?
Really? You are going to condescend to people about not understanding with this statement?
The whole point of this discussion is that you can be max level with every item in the game and still have this encounter with no alternative path or work around other than a cheesy exploit. And your advice is to "gain a few more levels/better gear" and to pretend like it is other people having problems with reading comprehension when the whole issue is that no amount of experience and no combination of gear makes any difference?
Op is @IkMarc. I'm the one saying Karoug could be better designed for solos and left unch for big parties. It's the flaw in a masterpiece, like someone took a dump on the Mona Lisa. Just wrong. Needs fixed. Like that.
1) The encounter is optional. You dont need to go to the island in order to finish the game.
2) A lot of people have managed to solo it. So it is by no means impossible.
3) Developers didnt make this game to be soloed. Players are the ones who decide to handicap themselves by soloing. So dont blame them when you have trouble in a certain encounter.
So really, what part dont you understand? Tell me, ill be happy to explain it to you.
You are just going to absolutely ignore your condescending statement combined with a blatant mistake? No retraction or qualification?
My jaw would drop if I was remotely surprised.
The fact that you don't seem to appreciate that:
1) reasonable minds differ on this
2) this encounter is unique in this regard among all of BG1, TOSC, BG2, and TOB
is not remotely surprising given the level of disrespect and condescenion in your posts. The fact that you recommend getting different gear or leveling up a bit more should be enough to give you pause before you tell yet another poster "you don't understand anything." (Assuming you can come around to understanding why the suggestions in that statement don't accomplish what you suggest they will accomplish for the classes that are being discussed).
Next time, before you go to the werewolf island, make a backup save file. If you fail at the island, then either:
a) Your class is not meant to solo this encounter. I already explained this: PLAYERS are the ones that decide if they solo or not. NOT the Devs. They never designed the game for soloing, and AD&D 2nd edition certainly doesn't encourage soloing since there is no such thing as class balance. At least, not the kind of balance you guys are asking for. This is not Diablo or WoW; some classes are inherently better at soloing than others.
b) Your class can solo the encounter, but you are doing something wrong. This is, of course, a L2P issue.
All i see is "waaaaaaaa i cant kill Karoug even though a lot of people have no problems with him, but i am pro brah!!!! clearly he is hackzorz, nerf him!!!!!".
And really, idgaf about your "reasonable minds" or if you have a problem with my "disrespect" since players like you deserve no respect whatsoever.
Dual Classed F/C Chaname (level 5/7)
Quayle M/C (level 6/6)
Branwen C (level 7)
Yeslick F/C (level 6/6)
Tiax T/C (level 7/6)
But then again if they do so, I'll most likey find a mod that can satisfy my needs, like most who've spent years with this game.
which makes me wonder?
what was the point of this post again?
Be thankful you even HAVE the option to cheese that. If your level 6-9 Cleric or Mage walked off on his own in PnP and encountered a greater wolfwere he would die screaming and your DM would laugh at you and hand you dice to reroll.
I didn't read every post in here because it started to turn into a flame war, but am I to understand we have people that believe every encounter should be beatable solo without being cheap? To play solo you area already having to metagame which is a form of cheapness in it self...
Cast "Slay Living" until you succeed. Bye-bye Karoug.