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The no reload challenge (spoiler warning)

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  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    The adventures of Amin Humbledow (1), LG Halfling Priest of Lathander.

    So. Amin was going to have to kill, this is what Keldath had said. He never had before. He needed to practice. He went at night to those fields south of Beregost and remembered it was exactly there he had won his slinging context as a teenager. He held his sling firmly and quietly went through the woods, looking for some sort of beast that deserved to perish.

    It was not as hard as he thought, and he was impressed by his aim:

    amin

    That night he also took the life of a goblin and a ghast. That was all what was needed to reach lvl.3 (+5 HP). He returned stolen boots to a halfling thief who turned out not be that bad a chap, and a letter to lady Mirianne. Helping the Beregost folks, he liked that.

    He travelled south and rescued a talking chicken from another hungry wolf. He liked his new magical cudgel - while the wolf needed a critical to hit.

    amin

    The chicken was restored into his human form by a frightening mage, Thalantyr. Who sold to Amin a few powerful magical items (wand of sleep, scroll of prot. vs undead, potions of strength and freedom). Amin returned to Beregost exhausted by his long journey.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    I'm at a bit of a quandary, after @bengoshi posted about his concerns about getting two powerful soloing a gnome illusionist/thief (which is a very incredibly strong build IMHO, especially if you go CG and get the Fairy Dragon), I've (perhaps only temporarily) put Nefti's run on hold at Nashkel Mines and have started a run as... a neutral evil male half-elf Jester called Alessandro (have a great portrait for this from the main portraits thread...), which I'm considering doing as a no reload duo run (which will slow my advancement rate a little and allow my small party to remove traps and open locks) with a non-dualed Safana (who should also eventually get enough thieving points to hide too).

    Have done Candlekeep (and amusingly got caught stealing a potion of healing in the infirmary and a Watcher followed me out of the building, but I managed to Confuse him with my Jester song and he attacked Hull, who killed him, so I got a free set of Plate Mail to sell, LOL!). I've gathered all the pre-FAI easter eggs and managed to avoid fighting the wolf on the first map. As I won't have a mage on my party I now have the Ring of Wizardy to sell, which will give me 9,000 gold towards the Dagger of Venom. After getting the Ring of Wizardry I didn't venture into the FAI, but headed to Beregost and did Marl's quest and Firebeard's book, which brought me to Level 2 (and another 6 HP, hurrah for decent rolls for once!).

    I now need to go pick up Safana asap, avoiding combat as much as possible on the way. I will need to do the Flesh Golem cave soon after, though, otherwise Safana will leave, so will then need to head to the FAI, kill Tarnesh, get Jaheira's potion of invisibility and a scroll of Invisbility from High Hedge, then get her to drink of potion of speed, cast Invisibility on her, then hope that she has enough in Find Traps to disable the traps in the cave, then grab the loot (including the Con tome), drink the potion of invisibility and leg it out again.

    Does anyone know if Safana has enough points in Find Traps to do this at her starting level 2 (think its only 25%), or will I have to wait until I'm level 3 so that she'll be level 4? I think at level 4 she has 45% in Find Traps (and takes single weapon style at level 4, which is okay - she starts with Scimitars and Darts, which are definitely viable in BGEE, especially if my Jester pickpockets the +3 Scimitar she can use, though she can't use the one that gives -2 AC ). I'd probably give her either quarterstaves (for the Staff of Striking etc.) or crossbows (for the Light Crossbow of Speed)

    BTW I rolled Alessandro (in my usual 20 rolls) as (after re-assigning):

    18 Str
    18 Dex
    15 Con
    15 Int (can raise to 19 and 95% learn with a potion of genius, higher with the red potion)
    8 Wis (to get 11 by the end of BGEE)
    15 Cha (can get to 21 and 75% shop discount with Friends)

    Proficiencies in daggers (for Dagger of Venom and Werebane) and short bows (quicker than longbows and better for BG2). Will likely go single weapon fighting at level 4, Katanas at level 8

    Neutral Evil alignment (for Dust Mephit, which gets Glitterdust x1/day and Glass Dust x 2/day)

    What does everyone reckon, should I go on with this Jester duo run, or go back to my run with Nefti, my gnome illusionist/thief?
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    Zhurlong was the name of that thief Amin had helped out. He indicated the Red Sheaf Inn as a place where another kin halfling might require some assistance. When the priest walked in, he was attacked by a vicious dwarf. A bounty hunter who wielded his axe and... hit ! wounding Amin. Blood, for the first time. As Karlat was preparing to aim again, the young hobbit thought of a new spell he had just learnt. It worked splendidly:

    amin

    The assassin had to be killed. Mr Humbledow then went to the temple of his church and was healed. He had also reached lvl.4 (+5HP, now a total of 29HP), in a matter of 5 days! his clergy peers were impressed. One of them told him about a group of goblins marauders just outside the church who had been assailling a group of priests a few days back, as they returned from a nearby farm where they had been called to bless the crops and the stock. Amin stumbled upon this large group, tried to reason with them but their leader Cattack attacked. Amin used his Wand of Sleep, called for the boon of Lathander and soon they were all wiped out.

    amin

    Soon it would be time to track down Bassilus. But not now, not yet.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Alessandro, my candidate for a duo run with Safana (see my previous post above) at level 2:

    Character Sheet:

    image

    Paperdoll / Inventory:

    image

    So shall or go with him and Safana, or back to Nefti?
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Ignatius said:

    I am sorry for Brilini Brightbow, she had potential. Regarding the use (or non-use) of potions... it is incredible how this game can be played in so many different ways.

    Re: playing different ways - I suspect that may be one of the prime reasons why a 14 year old game is still popular enough to warrant an "official" enhanced edition... ;-)

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    @ Oxford_Guy - why not do both? You could set "goals" to reach for each and upon reaching them go back to the other one - other wise choose the one you like the best - I suspect it may be your jester if you have truly reconciled yourself that it's ok to play him as a duo.

    I have noticed that it is very easy now (in BG:EE) to get caught stealing that "extra" potion which was pretty much a "gimmie" in Vanilla -

    altho sometimes if you get out the door and just walk quickly away the guards don't follow (or you can sometimes out run them if they do) - the two characters in the infirmary now stay close enough to keep that desk in view most of the time - I'm pretty sure this has been "tweaked" a bit...
  • styggastygga Member Posts: 467
    @Wanderon I've never had a problem with that extra potion, vanilla or EE. They walk away eventually.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    stygga said:

    @Wanderon I've never had a problem with that extra potion, vanilla or EE. They walk away eventually.

    I don't recall ever getting caught in Vanilla but my memory is as suspect as Nashkels iron -

    as for them eventually walking away perhaps my patience level is lower... LOL

  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    Welcome to Angelo, he sure rolled nice abilities here. I second Wanderon: why not run both in parallel?

    As for Safana... I've always thought of her as a little tough for no-reloaders. Because the pirates' cave is a fine place to die early on. I am not sure how much is needed in detect traps for that cave, but seeing the kind of damage/spells, I suspect 25 will not do it.
  • ZuttiZutti Member Posts: 94
    Wanderon said:


    I have noticed that it is very easy now (in BG:EE) to get caught stealing that "extra" potion which was pretty much a "gimmie" in Vanilla -

    altho sometimes if you get out the door and just walk quickly away the guards don't follow (or you can sometimes out run them if they do) - the two characters in the infirmary now stay close enough to keep that desk in view most of the time - I'm pretty sure this has been "tweaked" a bit...

    If you quaff the potion of speed in the training house, you can snatch th ehealing potion and hoof it out of the building before the guards arrive.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Zutti said:

    Wanderon said:


    I have noticed that it is very easy now (in BG:EE) to get caught stealing that "extra" potion which was pretty much a "gimmie" in Vanilla -

    altho sometimes if you get out the door and just walk quickly away the guards don't follow (or you can sometimes out run them if they do) - the two characters in the infirmary now stay close enough to keep that desk in view most of the time - I'm pretty sure this has been "tweaked" a bit...

    If you quaff the potion of speed in the training house, you can snatch th ehealing potion and hoof it out of the building before the guards arrive.
    I never go in the training house but I have taken the potion in BG:EE seen the message that the guards have been called and still made it out before they arrive - they must have the same script as the monks who have to chase you down to talk to you about the assasins that you've taken out LOL

    The other day they showed up as I hit the door and chased me down to the barracks and inside then I ran back out again and lost them somewhere along the way to the Inn - no rep hit either...

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Ignatius said:

    Welcome to Angelo, he sure rolled nice abilities here.

    Alessandro not Angelo! :-)

    Considering is alignment, I don't intend to play him very angelic...

    Oh his roll - yes it's a good one, though half-elf combined bard get's quite a high set of minimum stats, though not as much as an elven ranger (possibly easier class to get good abilities for):

    Maybe the stats are too good, though, and should lower them a little (such as Strength, which can be improved to 18 with a potion of strength, 18/50 with a spell and later 18/00 with Tazok's gloves) for more of a challenge? I don't like going lower than 14, though, as need to be able to carry a decent amount of loot on a duo challenge
    Ignatius said:


    I second Wanderon: why not run both in parallel?

    Yes, I'm tempted to do this, play Alessandro for now up to Nashkel Mines, then take them in turns, though I might ditch one if enjoying one much more than the other
    Ignatius said:


    As for Safana... I've always thought of her as a little tough for no-reloaders. Because the pirates' cave is a fine place to die early on. I am not sure how much is needed in detect traps for that cave, but seeing the kind of damage/spells, I suspect 25 will not do it.

    Yes Safana is a little squishy with her 10 Con, Shar-Teel would be the other option (dual at level 3), but has the same Con problems and I see her more as a powergamimg build. Also, am not sure that Alessandro would be able to beat her in one-to0one combat! Also I do like Safana's banters, and her Charm Person ability and high Charisma could be useful (though once Alessandro learns Friends will be less relevant).

    Regarding boosting her detect traps for the cave - does the wandering merchant near Durlag's Tower sell potions of Master Thievery? Could boost her with one or two of those, perhaps?
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725

    does the wandering merchant near Durlag's Tower sell potions of Master Thievery? Could boost her with one or two of those, perhaps?

    Yes, he does, indeed.

    By the way, I like Alessandro's picture - such a beautiful liar and intrigant! He and Safana are very well suited to each other.

    At the moment, I don't see it less challenging if you travel not alone but with a friend or two. Of course, these people must be mortal as the main character and their death means the end of a no-reload run.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    bengoshi said:

    does the wandering merchant near Durlag's Tower sell potions of Master Thievery? Could boost her with one or two of those, perhaps?

    Yes, he does, indeed.

    By the way, I like Alessandro's picture - such a beautiful liar and intrigant! He and Safana are very well suited to each other.

    At the moment, I don't see it less challenging if you travel not alone but with a friend or two. Of course, these people must be mortal as the main character and their death means the end of a no-reload run.
    I'd be more tempted to allow the PC to continue when a freind dies and either allow the PC to raise them (if not chunked) or for a higher challenge level take raising dead off the table for his minions - this would leave some options open for the the completion of the challenge and add another level of interest as the PC tries to fill the void left by a missing freind on both a gameplay and personal level.

  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    Alessandro, right. About Safana what I meant is her subquest, not her stats. You can boost her trap finding skills alright, but how will you deal with the golems?
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Ignatius said:

    Alessandro, right. About Safana what I meant is her subquest, not her stats. You can boost her trap finding skills alright, but how will you deal with the golems?

    I'm thinking he plans to let Safana sneak in disarm traps grab the loot and sneak back out without dealing with the golems - I have not been in the cave in BGEE so I'm not certain how easy or difficult that may be to accomplish. In Vanilla the golems were a push-over as long as you had an archer with arrows of biting.

  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    It is not so easy for a thief in that cave to detect traps (visible), disarm traps (visible) and then stealth to get the loot, while avoiding being hit by any of the golems. Of course there are plenty of ways to take them down, but the issue is that they hit really hard while the various traps make it difficult to maoeuvre.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Will trap finding/disarming remove an invisibilty potion also?
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    Wanderon said:

    Will trap finding/disarming remove an invisibilty potion also?

    That's a good question. I am not sure. It does not break Sanctuary though, but only a Cleric/Thief could detect and disarm traps while under Sanctuary.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    That potion lets you find and disarm traps without losing invisibilty. But looting the stuff (not only in the container but also on the ground) makes you visible at once.

    Also, I'm sure it's possible to attack a golem from the shadows, retreat (so that he doesn't see you for a second at least) and hide in shadows again. Several tryings will lead to the victory.

    And about your companion's death - it's either you let yourself to continue adventuring afterwards or you think your run has ended. It's a question of one's preference. I think that there can be no excuses because it's a no-reload run and a companion is taken into the party just to share experience.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    BTW have started over again with Alessandro, but with these stats (I limited myself to 10 rolls this time), which should be a little more of a challenge:

    15 Str (so I can bluff my way into the Bandit Camp at least, and carry stuff)
    18 Dex
    15 Con
    15 Int
    7 Wis
    15 Cha

    Same alignment (NE) and proficiencies (dagger and shortbow as before).

    I remembered to pickpocket Fuller for his +1 Dagger this time, he turned red, but I legged it out the door and shut it before he could follow.

    Have collected the early easter eggs, but Tarnesh will have to wait until I have both a potion to protect against fear (he casts Horror) and a way of casting Shield (protection from magic missiles).
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited January 2013
    Wanderon said:

    Will trap finding/disarming remove an invisibilty potion also?

    No (unlike move silently/hide in shadows), but opening doors and containers does, so will need to go invisible again once I've obtained the tome and other loot
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Ignatius said:

    Alessandro, right. About Safana what I meant is her subquest, not her stats. You can boost her trap finding skills alright, but how will you deal with the golems?

    Potion of Speed + Invisibility, of course the belt that boosts vs. crushing attacks would be nice too, just in case
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Ignatius said:

    It is not so easy for a thief in that cave to detect traps (visible), disarm traps (visible) and then stealth to get the loot, while avoiding being hit by any of the golems. Of course there are plenty of ways to take them down, but the issue is that they hit really hard while the various traps make it difficult to maoeuvre.

    You can detect and disarm traps whilst magically invisible

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Wanderon said:

    bengoshi said:

    does the wandering merchant near Durlag's Tower sell potions of Master Thievery? Could boost her with one or two of those, perhaps?

    Yes, he does, indeed.

    By the way, I like Alessandro's picture - such a beautiful liar and intrigant! He and Safana are very well suited to each other.

    At the moment, I don't see it less challenging if you travel not alone but with a friend or two. Of course, these people must be mortal as the main character and their death means the end of a no-reload run.
    I'd be more tempted to allow the PC to continue when a freind dies and either allow the PC to raise them (if not chunked) or for a higher challenge level take raising dead off the table for his minions - this would leave some options open for the the completion of the challenge and add another level of interest as the PC tries to fill the void left by a missing freind on both a gameplay and personal level.

    I think I will allow myself to raise Safana from dead, but I'll cross that bridge when/if I come to it

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    BTW I intend to use some of the tips here from "Bards with Wands" (see: http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1399 and http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/dl.php?s=BG&f=BG/BG1-Bards_with_Wands.zip ), combined with some extra invisibility/Jester song craziness for Alessandro's run...
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624


    You can detect and disarm traps whilst magically invisible

    Ok, thanks all for clarifying that. Arcane invisibility spell would also do it then, but you need to make a hasty exist once you've opened the container - i.e. with an oil of speed, but I would hesitate to use one (and same for invisibility potion) in that cave. But that's just me.

    I am contemplating whether I should take Amin Humbledow into that cave. I do not exactly know the effect of all the traps in there (3 traps I think?), but one of them at least is a save-or-die. Amin can melee the golems but needs severe buffing. All in all it is a big risk in a solo no-reload when PC is not a thief; but the reward might be worth it - the tome, but not only that ;-)
  • IgnatiusIgnatius Member Posts: 624
    edited January 2013
    As for resurrecting an NPC, I am not the one to establish rules and everyone is obviously entitled to play as they wish, but the "tradition" in a no-reload run is to be able to raise dead NPC's. Because it does not require a reload. However a chunked NPC is lost forever.

    There was also a little mod I once saw which permanently reduced by 1 the CON of a raised NPC, for each resurrection instance. I thought it made things a little more difficult and made a lot of sense RP-wise (the more they are being raised, the weaker they become...).
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  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I've started a minimal reload no resurrection run but thought I would chronicle it here for as long as it remains a no reload run - who knows I might get lucky...

    Meet Scimitar Sam -

    Human Beserker - 18/65 \ 18 \ 18 \ 11 \ 9 \ 18
    ** Scimitar ** Two weapon fighting - dual class to Thief at level 3 - playing on core

    Sam and Imoen picked up Kivan and cleared the two maps south of Beregost after attempting to assist Melicamp who died again on me - (this makes like 6 out of 8 times for me since BGEE was released) When Imoen and Sam hit level 2 I decided I would drop to normal for max hps on level ups at least for the first few levels. Sam stuck to a bow mostly to this point but now that he has some decent HPs he started weilding his scimitar and ninjato unless the foe is especially dangerous in melee range.

    Mostly uneventful as we sniped around some of the maps around Beregost and then went back north and took out Tarnesh and the belt ogre. Imoen grabbed the stupifier for Kivan who put a pip in mace at level 3 and then we got the bright idea to sneak up and take Bassilus from the south - silver tongued Sam got Bassilus to leave his minions out of the fight - Sam got rage up but Bassilus got a rigid thinking off on Kivan despite Imoen zapping him with magic missles every round and then Kivan fired on a couple minions and all hell broke loose as a bunch of them turned hostile and started to attack us- Imoen went down - Sam managed to get Bassilus down and retreated south with Kivan as the rigid thinking elapsed but they still needed to grab Bassilus stuff so they sniped skellies and zombies one at a time until they could grab the gear and go get their reward -

    Sam hit level 3 and dualed to thief after putting a 3rd pip in scimitar - taking shortbow & longsword for his thief pips and putting all thief skills in traps bringing them to 50. I'm thinking a trip to the carnival for Branwen and then some more exploring until Sam gets his beserker back.

    We laid Imoen to rest in the woods at the NE corner of the Beregost map - Kivan found a nice slab of maple and carved "Heya it's me!" on it and we wandered on...
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