PSA: Weapon proficiencies selected In BG:EE: Do they bite you in the butt later?

Tresset

I'm starting to think I have been somewhat hasty in selecting my warrior's proficiencies. I got around to thinking to myself:
"Self, there is a different set of weapons available in BG2." "Ya. So what, self?" "Well, self, I am getting a little worried we may have made some mistakes in not thinking long term here." "What ya gittin at, self?" "Well, that was never a problem before, self, but..." "Wait! Self! Are you suggesting that they may force you to keep the weapon proficiencies you selected for your character in BG1:EE when you import them to BG2:EE?" "Exactly, self! Before you had the benefit of selecting completely different proficiencies before starting BG2. But that was because the weapon systems were completely different! You had to for compatibility! That issue doesn't exist anymore! Now you are probably stuck with what you pick."
Needless to say my newly formed split personality is quite worried that it will be stuck with proficiency in weapons that are good in BG1 but will give me a hard time starting out in BG2. I currently have a fighter/thief with 2 pips in scimitar and 3 pips in 2-weapon fighting. Knowing the rarity of scimitars in BG2, I am quite worried that I will be stuck with some relatively weak weapons (probably Blem and Rashad's Talon, both only +2) for a while until I can pick up more pips in something else more common. I don't really post this because I want something from the developers (not necessarily anyway), but rather to find out if my fears are well founded and as a PSA for other players. I would also like some discussion started on this subject.

Also: Sorry about the crazy dialog up top. (Sometimes I start things on a whim and get stuck...)

moopy

I'd say just enjoy BG:EE.

When BG2:EE is out or close to getting out I'll probably remake one of my favorite classes and select options planning for BG2.

If you don't have the time on hand to run another character, you could always shadowkeeper it.

On that note, Belm is going to be your best off hand weapon, and Usuno's blade +4 on the 1st level of watchers keep, so you can get that one pretty early in SOA with the right strategy.

In ToB you can buy the Yamato +4.

And on the 3rd level of watchers keep you can get the Spectral Brand +4, which can later be upgraded in ToB to Spectral Brand +5.

I don't believe you are gimping yourself by using scimitars. Actually, I made a Kensai that is using scimitars and two weapon fighting and I plan to continue that on into BG2.

Celestial Fury gives katanas a bit of an edge in my book, and there are a ton of good long swords in BG2... but I've done dual wielding katanas and I've done dual wielding longswords plenty of times.

Edit:
If you wanted to see more information on the weapons I mentioned.
http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate2/weapons/scimitars.html

Edit 2:

To continue with what I was saying... the Spectral Brand +5 has a damage range of 6-13, where as Hindos Doom (katana) has a damage range of 5-14. Which I believe is extremely comparable.

http://mikesrpgcenter.com/bgate2/weapons/katanas.html

Edit 3:
I also had the exact same internal dialogue with myself that you had, which is what lead me to look up scimitars in BG2 recently and realize there were some good options there I never really used that often so am looking forward to being a little different.

Zarakinthish

Since the proficiency for scimitars is lumped together with wakizashi and ninjato, I wouldn't worry too much, especially if BG2:EE includes the bonus vendors in Waukeen's Promenade by default.

Alsn

Like has been stated, scimitars are by no means a sub-par choice. Sure, CF alone makes katanas ridiculous, but it has the unfortunate property of only being +3, forcing you to use the not-quite-as-good weapons to kill stuff that are immune to +3 weapons(a certain demi-lich for example).

ZanathKariashi

Well...the beauty of fighters is, they only suffer a -1 penalty for non-proficiency..so..you can wield whatever. BG2 has at least 1 good weapon for every weapon class though (clubs are so-so...CoD is ok..but it tends to do more damage to me then the enemy), so you really can't go wrong no matter what you pick.

Tresset

.

Alsn

ZanathKariashi said:

Well...the beauty of fighters is, they only suffer a -1 penalty for non-proficiency..so..you can wield whatever. BG2 has at least 1 good weapon for every weapon class though (clubs are so-so...CoD is ok..but it tends to do more damage to me then the enemy), so you really can't go wrong no matter what you pick.

As far as I'm aware, they suffer a -2 penalty, not -1.

However, regardless of whether or not it's -2 or -1 being, say, a master in a weapon gives you +3, something you would obviously also lose by using a weapon you are not proficient with. So I don't think you can simply conclude that "oh look, the penalty is small so it's fine!". You would be missing a lot more and have 1/2 less attacks per round in addition to the damage per hit loss.

Edit: To be perfectly clear though, BG2 has a much greater variety of weapons than BG1, there's almost no weapon proficiency in the game that is particularly bad(I think long bows are the only real candidate for being "bad", at least until you start finding "upper tier" ammunition)

Tresset

What about bastard swords? All but one of those pretty much suck. Same with hammers, most of those are bad (but the one that isn't is really really really really really... good). Short bows suck. Could probably do a lot better than maces too.

Madhax

I only really find this to be an issue when playing a single-class fighter. With the extensive level cap and wide selection of weapons in BG2 and ToB, a fighter/thief multiclass will inevitably specialize in a wide variety of weapons. You could theoretically specialize in a weapon type found exclusively in BG1, and still be fine for BG2.

Regarding using a weapon you aren't proficient in: Sure, a fighter may be able to overcome the THAC0 penalty for using a strange weapon. However, you'd also be limited to a single attack per round with that weapon, negating your level 7 and 13 APR bonuses.

Tresset

.

Zarakinthish

Tresset said:

Short bows suck.

Heresy! There are some really good short bows. Tuigan Bow may only be a +1 weapon, but it starts at 3 attacks a round instead of 2 like most bows. Short Bow of Gesen is +4, and does bonus electrical damage.

Tresset

Ok I'm not sure what I can say to fix the mess I made other than that it is about 1:30 am at night where I live and I am getting pretty tired and perhaps not thinking clearly... I'll get some rest and maybe feel better tomorrow.

Oxford_Guy

Zarakinthish said:

Tresset said:

Short bows suck.

Heresy! There are some really good short bows. Tuigan Bow may only be a +1 weapon, but it starts at 3 attacks a round instead of 2 like most bows. Short Bow of Gesen is +4, and does bonus electrical damage.

Gesen is probably the best bow in the whole game, never ending +4 ammo? Yes please! Longbows are probably the worst bow choice in BG2 currently, even crossbows are better (Firetooth etc.)

Oxford_Guy

Tresset said:

Ok I'm not sure what I can say to fix the mess I made other than that it is about 1:30 am at night where I live and I am getting pretty tired and perhaps not thinking clearly... I'll get some rest and maybe feel better tomorrow.

If you can't live with it, just use Shadowkeeper

JuliusBorisov

@Oxford_Guy
Maybe the Devs will add new magic longbows to BG2:EE? Those weapons they added to BG:EE make me think they try to compensate for the lack of weapons in the vanilla game for particular weapon proficiencies. For example, new mace and halberd drastically changed preferred weapon proficiencies for my fighter and cleric. It was great to see something new and I expect some weapons added to BG2:EE as well. Good longbows, for example.

Oxford_Guy

bengoshi said:

@Oxford_Guy
Maybe the Devs will add new magic longbows to BG2:EE? Those weapons they added to BG:EE make me think they try to compensate for the lack of weapons in the vanilla game for particular weapon proficiencies. For example, new mace and halberd drastically changed preferred weapon proficiencies for my fighter and cleric. It was great to see something new and I expect some weapons added to BG2:EE as well. Good longbows, for example.

Either that or higher +x magic ammo bags would help

Tresset

@Oxford_Guy That wasn't exactly the mess I was referring to... I was referring to how I said some things that made me look a little crazy. That is why I "removed" some of my comments; they made me sound rather unbalanced.

PugPug

There is no way of knowing what items will be added in BG2:EE. That's why I compiled this:

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/5583/choosing-your-weapon-proficiencies-base-stats-for-all-weapons

DrEast

The only useless weapon proficiency in BG2 is club; halberd is pretty bad as well, but they greatly improved halberds in BGEE, so they may do the same in BG2:EE. Furthermore, you'll get a lot of proficiencies as you level up to the ToB cap, and you can apply those to the cool new weapons. Finally, if you remove the level cap, you'll eventually get even more proficiencies. Just have fun!

Tresset

@DrEast Halberds are awesome in BG2! I loved my halberds! You have The Wave, Blackmist, and Dragon's Breath all of which are +4! And you CAN'T forget the awesome RAVAGER +6! One of the FEW +6 weapons available in the game AND one of only 2 TRUE VORPAL weapons! Club is pretty bad yeah, but HALBERD?!

reedmilfam

In BG:1, however, it seems that proficiencies can really bite you. For instance, not going any sort of swords is really hurting me on the werewolf island (all of those special weapons happen to be swords)...

Tresset

I begin to realize that I shouldn't be so worried about this. I sure will miss a few things though.

AlexDeLarge

To be honest, Long Swords are kind of mediocre in BG2, countered by the fact that you find so many of them. There is not a single exceptional one to be found, until you get to hell and acquire Blackrazor (and even that is only +3 and requires you to be evil). Scimitars are quite a decent choice. Overall i think the game is very balanced when it comes to weapon proficiencies and choices. Like, if you go for Katana, you will be a gimped for much of BG1, but then you absolutely dominate in BG2 once you get Celestial Fury, only to be toned down again in ToB, when CF starts to lose it's effectiveness and the only other variant is Hindo's Doom (which, to be honest, except for the +4, is worse than CF).

Debaser

@Tresset Isn't Usano's blade relatively easy to get in BG2? Overall they outdamage Katana's...Celestial Fury is in my opinion overrated a bit. It's a great sword, but not the end all be all in the game. And won't you get two more slots in BG1 if you level cap? Put two more slots in Scimitar so you're nearly a grandmaster!

Tresset

Debaser said:

@Tresset Isn't Usano's blade relatively easy to get in BG2? Overall they outdamage Katana's...Celestial Fury is in my opinion overrated a bit. It's a great sword, but not the end all be all in the game. And won't you get two more slots in BG1 if you level cap? Put two more slots in Scimitar so you're nearly a grandmaster!

@Debaser I agree with you about Celestial Fury. It's strong but is it really stronger than everything else and reason enough to put 5 pips in katana? Meh, I think not. Also only pure fighter kits can put more than two pips in any one weapon. As a F/T you can get up to 6 pips to distribute before the level cap. I have 3 in two-weapon, 2 in scimitar, and 1 in longsword.

Debaser

@Tresset Ah see are you just a fighter class? The longsword + is the one you don't need. I would get Shadowkeeper to work, (read the thread on it) and just change that over to Scimitar. Here's why, your damage and to hit bonus will increase by +1 Let someone else use longswords unless you plan on putting another + in longsword for the +2 Longsword (+1 Cold Damage) and you intend to dual wield that with a scimy. Which is good, but not an optimal choice. I prefer to make each party member focus on one to two types of weapons depending if they can have more than two + in a weapon class. In BG2 if you were gonna focus on a second weapon Bastard Sword for Foebane...Hammer, Flail...or Axe for Crom Faeyr, Flail of the ages and Axe of the Unyeilding, etc. Are all better secondary picks than longsword or katana. And even then, there's more than enough +4 to +5 Scimy's (There's THREE in fact, making it AGAIN one of the most powerful weapon classes, if not the single best since in BG1 there's Drizzt's blades) making it kind of worthless to go for more than one weapon type if you could go to grandmastery and get more attacks per round.

Longswords are good for a second string tank who will take out speciffic swords that are matched to certain types of enemies. Daystar kills undead for example (it's Fantastic with a capitol F at killing undead in fact, but not that great on everything else) And the Dragon Slayer (Whatever it's called that hurts dragons) is a good pick for certain fights versus...wait for it...(SPOILER! =P) Dragons.

Flametongue is good vs trolls, etc. But overall...they just boost your chances when your main fighters are using some of the better weapons mentioned above.

Tresset

@Debaser Erm, you don't quite get it. I am a half-orc F/T. That means I chose to multi class. He is NOT a dual class F/T meaning he can only SPECIALIZE in weapons and can NOT reach anywhere near GRANDMASTER rank in scimitars. Sorry I didn't make that clear earlier...

Debaser

@Tresset Sorry I didn't know...I would maybe take Hammer or Bastard Sword then probably...for Crom Faeyr in BG2 (which ups strength to 25. or for Foebane...since you're a half orc though you can get to 21 strength on your own with stat boosts...so Foebane starts to look a lot more attractive since it's higher damage overall as a main hand weapon than anything else...pair that with Usano's blade in BG2 and Spectral Brand in TOB and you're gold. But honestly in BG1 you'd be better off with ++ in Longbow for great ranged attacks if you don't mind swapping weapons out during combat. (your high strength will give you a great chance to hit with a composite bow or better and 5/2 attacks per round)

Then again...Axe of the Unyielding is also quite insane. =/ Sometimes I like to have a high con character use that with Foebane for all the regeneration and minor drain action, so they rarely have to heal.

Staff might have been good if you were going two handed, there's a +3 staff that's easy to BUY in BG1...and later the staff of striking which is the strongest weapon in BG1 hands down in durlags tower....you could still have two ++ in Bows but you wouldn't have to swap things out...and in BG2 there's a +4 staff you can buy immediately which can hurt Kangaxx. Plus you can backstab with a staff.

Debaser

If you went staff, in BG2 you'd later get points to eventually go for Two-Handed Swords or Halberds....so....Warblade and Ravager would be open to you too.

Tresset

Ok, just for future reference, let me clarify that I am far from a noob when it comes to BG2... I have pretty much memorized every weapon in that game along with its + bonus and any nasty effects it may have and I know where they can be found. Just letting you all know...

Debaser

@Tresset Oh...hrmn...didn't think of this...what about Dagger for BG1 instead of longsword? For the Dagger of Venom? You'd get poison damage which destroys mages.