Cast speed and weapon speed are pretty much the same mechanically, except weapon enhancement or style bonuses can potentially raise your weapon speed, though 1-3 speed spells should be able to get off 1 or 2 during the gap, well...if you had IA...you can only cast 1 spell per round otherwise, but if a spell is under 5 cast speed you should be ok. You could actually go about as high as 7 or 8, if you're feeling lucky.
Cast speed and weapon speed are pretty much the same mechanically, except weapon enhancement or style bonuses can potentially raise your weapon speed, though 1-3 speed spells should be able to get off 1 or 2 during the gap, well...if you had IA...you can only cast 1 spell per round otherwise, but if a spell is under 5 cast speed you should be ok. You could actually go about as high as 7 or 8, if you're feeling lucky.
The ability to use ranged weapons or spells whilst still having bard song playing definitely makes this class more viable, especially the Skald...
The reason I don't like either Blade or Skald is that I think Lore is, as I stated above, bard's most important ability - and both of those kits significantly reduce it.
Which is a shame, because Skald's song is pure awesomeness.
Even reduced as it is, Skald/Blade Lore values are STILL significantly better than anyone else, and still improves beyond level 10 (not that you'd need it to.) As long as you don't totally dump your wisdom, your lore values should still be more than you'd ever really need beyond level 5 or so.
The Skald's lore is not nerfed, *only* pickpockets! My Skald has 20 Lore at Level 1 with 18 Int and 10 Wis
< Also, who cares if your stuff is ID'd or not? I frequently spend the entire game with my weapons unidentified. The only things I bother to ID are wands or items that have On Use properties simply because without it, you can't use their abilities.
If you've played the game before, you pretty much know what everything does already. ID'ing is simply a convenience.
ALSO ALSO (and this is not to you), I have to laugh at the notion Skalds are "useless" because Epic Level Feats eventually replace their song. Up until that point (which is what, 2/3rds of the way through the saga?), they are easily the best buff-bot in the game, and it's not like you suddenly can't still pick up epic level song. Skalds are still better than regular bards because hey, +1 hit/damage just for being one.
@Oxford_Guy: The only Bard-only item I can think of are the Wondrous Gloves in Throne of Bhaal, which admittedly are amazing and one of the best glove slot items in the series. There's a handful of things only they and fighters can utilize that are clearly designed for bards or multi-classed fighters (like elven chain) but that's about it.
Okay, thanks. In BGEE my Skald will use the elven chain (CLUA-ed in after the encounter where it's meant to drop, unless this is fixed soon) when casting, and the +2 chain when out of spells, possibly will also keep a suit of studded leather on hand when trying to pickpocket, although it'll be a while before my pickpocket ability will be any good... Melee weapon of choice will be the +2 (+6 damage!) Chesley Crusher halberd, for a Bard it doesn't matter that this is limited to one attack per round! (though does anyone know if this can still be hasted?)
Chesley Crusher can be hasted. Right now I can have Dorn, with 2 proficiency points in halberds, wielding it and getting 3 attacks / round when hasted (2 attacks otherwise). It may not be working right lol.
I'm almost positive it ISN'T working correctly, lol!
Skald song does linger, the duration is 100 second or just over 16 rounds (checked the spell file).
Essentially combat version of Luck spell with twice the power and lasts 16 rounds instead of 3 affects whole party member.... 100s duration means that for short duration battle Bard just need to sing before battle then once party members are affected Bard can join the foray...
Skald song does linger, the duration is 100 second or just over 16 rounds (checked the spell file).
Essentially combat version of Luck spell with twice the power and lasts 16 rounds instead of 3 affects whole party member.... 100s duration means that for short duration battle Bard just need to sing before battle then once party members are affected Bard can join the foray...
BTW does vanilla BGEE have elven chain?
Are you sure? It always drops off for me if i attempt any other action.
There is elven chain however it isn't currently dropping where it should.
Are you sure? It always drops off for me if i attempt any other action.
There is elven chain however it isn't currently dropping where it should.
Checked spell file for Skald bard song (SPCL542A.SPL). The duration stated on the file is definitely 100 seconds... but I think you're right... It might be 10 seconds.... The spell uses different timing mode (instant/limited(ticks) compared to Luck spell...
Okay, thanks. In BGEE my Skald will use the elven chain (CLUA-ed in after the encounter where it's meant to drop, unless this is fixed soon) when casting, and the +2 chain when out of spells, possibly will also keep a suit of studded leather on hand when trying to pickpocket, although it'll be a while before my pickpocket ability will be any good... Melee weapon of choice will be the +2 (+6 damage!) Chesley Crusher halberd, for a Bard it doesn't matter that this is limited to one attack per round! (though does anyone know if this can still be hasted?)
Gah jealous. Since I started playing on my new iPad I can't CLUA in the elven chain. I also tried to multiplayer with my pc to just drop it in but they aren't the same versions. Of all the times I want to play bard, it's when I can't get the amazing armor for them oh well, time to prep an armor spell every day.
I look forward to playing a bard in my new game. I just tried a jester in Black Pits and they are awesome! Making stuff dizzy is way more fun than expected. If only bards could use the Ring of Wizardry I would be in paradise.
Okay, thanks. In BGEE my Skald will use the elven chain (CLUA-ed in after the encounter where it's meant to drop, unless this is fixed soon) when casting, and the +2 chain when out of spells, possibly will also keep a suit of studded leather on hand when trying to pickpocket, although it'll be a while before my pickpocket ability will be any good... Melee weapon of choice will be the +2 (+6 damage!) Chesley Crusher halberd, for a Bard it doesn't matter that this is limited to one attack per round! (though does anyone know if this can still be hasted?)
Gah jealous. Since I started playing on my new iPad I can't CLUA in the elven chain. I also tried to multiplayer with my pc to just drop it in but they aren't the same versions. Of all the times I want to play bard, it's when I can't get the amazing armor for them oh well, time to prep an armor spell every day.
You'd be better off buying the Shield Amulet in Nashkel Carnival, it's not that expensive, and as a Bard you will likely have high charisma (especially if casting Friends before buying it, which adds 6 Charisma!), which can make it very cheap, especially if you have high reputation. Just sell it once it gets to 1 charge and buy it back again. Stops you wasting a spell slot and Shield is much better than Armour (4 AC vs 6 AC for Armour, 2 AC vs. missile, immunity to magic missile). Before they introduced the elven chain this is what I used to do for evil figher/mages, as they can't get the evil robes of archmagic until quite far into the game.
Are you sure? It always drops off for me if i attempt any other action.
There is elven chain however it isn't currently dropping where it should.
Checked spell file for Skald bard song (SPCL542A.SPL). The duration stated on the file is definitely 100 seconds... but I think you're right... It might be 10 seconds.... The spell uses different timing mode (instant/limited(ticks) compared to Luck spell...
It certainly doesn't seem to linger for 100 seconds, I'd be surprised if it's even 10, seems to dissipate well before then once I use a weapon
Love bards, as stated this is more for people who love to RP/a challenge, anyone can tank a fighter but if u decide perhaps a cleric? druid? thief? mix it up a bit.... go evil or neutral? do the quests your own way instead of south then north? I get to baldurs gate generally then start again (have about 20 saves... ok 5)
Are you sure? It always drops off for me if i attempt any other action.
There is elven chain however it isn't currently dropping where it should.
Checked spell file for Skald bard song (SPCL542A.SPL). The duration stated on the file is definitely 100 seconds... but I think you're right... It might be 10 seconds.... The spell uses different timing mode (instant/limited(ticks) compared to Luck spell...
It certainly doesn't seem to linger for 100 seconds, I'd be surprised if it's even 10, seems to dissipate well before then once I use a weapon
Maybe the 100 seconds is the limit to how long you could actively use the song for if you took no other actions?
I have found that if you sing than attack you gain the benefit (for only that attack) before the buff falls off. Haste and speed weapons may get you extra attacks with the buff before it falls off?
It's not ideal for BG1 simply because all the bonuses come between levels 8-12, but they are a great class for BG2. Give him a bow, summon meatshields, profit. Clubs are a solid weapon choice in BG2, or you can just go staff. By the end of Shadows of Amn, ain't like you really need AC anymore anyway, and you'll still be sitting pretty with some of the high end leathers.
I really don't understand a lot of Baldur's Gate gamers. There really is not a bad class. Period. They are all awesome in their own ways.
Skald song does linger, the duration is 100 second or just over 16 rounds (checked the spell file).
Essentially combat version of Luck spell with twice the power and lasts 16 rounds instead of 3 affects whole party member.... 100s duration means that for short duration battle Bard just need to sing before battle then once party members are affected Bard can join the foray...
BTW does vanilla BGEE have elven chain?
If this is the case and actually works it would definitely solidify my first playthroughs. I'd use Blade for my Evil run and Skald for my Good run just because bards fit so easily into both parties. The problem is I really DONT wanna spend as much time as mentioned earlier micromanaging my bard song =/ It's what has turned me off from them before. Otherwise I'd love the class.
Bards are great when used effectively, but effective use does require some micromanagement - more so for a Bard than any other class i.m.o., because he's likely to be switching around between singing and casting and ranged and melee all in the same fight. Personally I find that micromanagement adds to the immersiveness of the game experience, but I realise that some other players find it dull.
If you want your party to charge into a tough fight and win it while you just sit back and watch, then a Bard is probably not for you. If you like to run with party AI Off and auto-pausing On and control your party in detail, then you'll love your Bard.
@Oxford_Guy: The only Bard-only item I can think of are the Wondrous Gloves in Throne of Bhaal, which admittedly are amazing and one of the best glove slot items in the series. There's a handful of things only they and fighters can utilize that are clearly designed for bards or multi-classed fighters (like elven chain) but that's about it.
There are several other Bard-only items. I think Melodic Chain +3 and Jester's Chain +4 are both Bard-only, and there are four magical Harps which are Bard-only (Azlaer's Harp, the Harp of Discord, the Harp of Pandemonium and Methild's Harp).
It's a pity a Skald can't be Chaotic Good, as this has the best good familiar (Fairy Dragon), which can cast Invisibility 10' Radius (though I think has lower HP than most of the other familiars). As it is, Neutral Evil (Dust Mephit - which has 12 HP, Giltterdust and Glass Dust x 2 /day) probably has the best one of the allowed alignments IMHO. I'm playing good with my current Skald simply because I'm playing evil in my other play through and fancy something different. On a more positive note, will mean I can use the awesome Azuredge throwing axes in BG2...
Also, as a Bard you can only be human or half-elf, but apart from RP I can't see any reason *not* to take a half-elf, as benefit from 30% immunity to charm/sleep with the latter. Both can romance Viconia in BG2, though (she doesn't date pure elves, which are usually what my fighter/mages are) which is why I went for a male Skald :-)
I think that bards are great. They are surely not weak. You need to stop looking at the last fight with Sarevok. The game is all about the journey. And while you dual out of your level 7 warrior to a wizard an 8 level bard will own you, and he will have higher caster level so his damaging spells will be more powerful.
I think that bard is just a solid character all the way. He can be a nice fighter or archer, he have spells for backup and CC, he have his songs. I great character all around.
BTW, I have noticed the usefulness of bards when I made a party with Xan as my only mage. I took Garrik and loaded him with all the offensive spells and he is really great. Because he is higher level the Xan, so even if Xan could cast evocation it will still be weaker then Garrik's. After he is nuking, he starts using his bow, with the archer bracers, and he is doing a great job.
Bards are great when used effectively, but effective use does require some micromanagement - more so for a Bard than any other class i.m.o., because he's likely to be switching around between singing and casting and ranged and melee all in the same fight. Personally I find that micromanagement adds to the immersiveness of the game experience, but I realise that some other players find it dull.
If you want your party to charge into a tough fight and win it while you just sit back and watch, then a Bard is probably not for you. If you like to run with party AI Off and auto-pausing On and control your party in detail, then you'll love your Bard.
I don't mind micromanaging CHARNAME, less so for my other party members, though. Thieves also require quite a bit of micromanaging to get the best out of them too.
I believe when I saw 100s duration it might actually have been probablity value. I now believe Skald song stops taking effect when Skald stops singing....
I believe when I saw 100s duration it might actually have been probablity value. I now believe Skald song stops taking effect when Skald stops singing....
Someone really should just write a mod that grants bards spell-like abilities that replicate songs. They could scale with level, or even have different types of songs(offense/defense). Then just disable the sing button and call it good.
on a serious note, was thinking of making a thread and doing a solo bard no reload challenge on standard rules and seeing how people fare. I don't play bards often enough myself, I think it's time to spread the love around and put time in with all the classes and kits
on a serious note, was thinking of making a thread and doing a solo bard no reload challenge on standard rules and seeing how people fare. I don't play bards often enough myself, I think it's time to spread the love around and put time in with all the classes and kits
A bard doesn't make much sense unless in a party, unless playing a Skald or possibly a Jester
on a serious note, was thinking of making a thread and doing a solo bard no reload challenge on standard rules and seeing how people fare. I don't play bards often enough myself, I think it's time to spread the love around and put time in with all the classes and kits
A bard doesn't make much sense unless in a party, unless playing a Skald or possibly a Jester
Not a Blade? Blades seem the most self-sufficient out of all bard kits, able to slice and dice in melee right out of the gates. A Skald's only unique soloing power would be buffing summons, but before gaining access to summoning spells they'd be limited to fighting as a thief +1.
Now that I think about it, a Jester is probably more self-sufficient, I just hate playing them. 90% of the game is going to be running around invisible while singing, seems boring.
for any and all no-reload or minimal reload ideas. The best players in the world congregate in this thread, and in the corresponding BG2 no- and minimal reload runs. These folks are international grandmaster level players, and they know everything there is to know about BG. They have all been playing the game without reloading, over and over, for more than a decade.
If you want to socialize with the best BG players in the world, and try out any and all ideas about it, these people are your friends. You will not believe how much you can learn and enjoy about BG by reading and following the no-reload blogs of @Grond0, @Gate70, @UssNorway, @CoreyRussel, @Alesia_BH, @Blackmalkin, and so many others.
Every time I start to think that I know which end is up in the grand chess game that is Baldur's Gate, I read the posts of these people, and I marvel and am humbled at their grandmastery of the game. If this were really chess, I think I'd be barely above novice level in comparison to their grandmastery.
on a serious note, was thinking of making a thread and doing a solo bard no reload challenge on standard rules and seeing how people fare. I don't play bards often enough myself, I think it's time to spread the love around and put time in with all the classes and kits
A bard doesn't make much sense unless in a party, unless playing a Skald or possibly a Jester
I always dismissed the Bard, too, but after a bit more research, they're actually quite powerful - at least in BG2 and ToB. Thing is, I don't think they really take off til around the 1.1M XP mark, but after that, they are quite amazing. They're essentially fighter/mages that level at an extremely fast pace and have access to UAI by the time ToB rolls out.
Kensages are undoubtably better casters because of their access to higher circle spells & spell casts per day, but Bards are more powerful mages than the multiclass variants (at least until quite a bit into ToB). Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bard's level = casting level. What that means is that spells that improve based on caster level, are vastly superior on Bards because of their rapid level growth (as well as longer durations). Skull trap and Flame Arrow, in particular, are absolutely, ridiculously powerful since they have no level caps. F/Ms eventually get higher spell circles and more casts a day, but Bards always have the more powerful 1st-6th Level Spells.
As warriors, Bards are quite powerful with Tenser's Transformation. True warriors would have more HP, more APR, better weapon proficiency, and better martial HLAs, but Bards would at least have much better THAC0 while in transformation. Blades can at least get pretty decent APRs with Belm and/or Scarlet Ninja-To and can do at least on par or higher damage per hit, thanks to Offensive Spin.
On top of all that, UAI allows them to use some pretty nice item combos (i.e. 100% Magic Resist with Carsomyr + other items). They also have access to time stop via Time Trap and the powerful (albeit cheesy IMO) Spike Trap.
While i wouldn't say they are overpowered, Bards are definitely good IMO.
Just to clarify, I was not dismissing bard I was simply trying to understand the point of playing a bard when you can just play a warrior, wizard or thief that specialise in your kind of favoured combat whether its spell casting ect. Bard seems more of a NPC class you stumble across as a supporting role than the actual front line hero as well since of course you become *extreme abbreviated spoiler alert* T.L.O.M.
I could actually see myself playing a bard if they had lockpicking abilities but since they don't I feel your better off being a Thief/Mage like Imoen instead.
Comments
Essentially combat version of Luck spell with twice the power and lasts 16 rounds instead of 3 affects whole party member.... 100s duration means that for short duration battle Bard just need to sing before battle then once party members are affected Bard can join the foray...
BTW does vanilla BGEE have elven chain?
Are you sure? It always drops off for me if i attempt any other action.
There is elven chain however it isn't currently dropping where it should.
I look forward to playing a bard in my new game. I just tried a jester in Black Pits and they are awesome! Making stuff dizzy is way more fun than expected. If only bards could use the Ring of Wizardry I would be in paradise.
I have found that if you sing than attack you gain the benefit (for only that attack) before the buff falls off. Haste and speed weapons may get you extra attacks with the buff before it falls off?
It's not ideal for BG1 simply because all the bonuses come between levels 8-12, but they are a great class for BG2. Give him a bow, summon meatshields, profit. Clubs are a solid weapon choice in BG2, or you can just go staff. By the end of Shadows of Amn, ain't like you really need AC anymore anyway, and you'll still be sitting pretty with some of the high end leathers.
I really don't understand a lot of Baldur's Gate gamers. There really is not a bad class. Period. They are all awesome in their own ways.
If you want your party to charge into a tough fight and win it while you just sit back and watch, then a Bard is probably not for you. If you like to run with party AI Off and auto-pausing On and control your party in detail, then you'll love your Bard.
Also, as a Bard you can only be human or half-elf, but apart from RP I can't see any reason *not* to take a half-elf, as benefit from 30% immunity to charm/sleep with the latter. Both can romance Viconia in BG2, though (she doesn't date pure elves, which are usually what my fighter/mages are) which is why I went for a male Skald :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg
I think that bard is just a solid character all the way. He can be a nice fighter or archer, he have spells for backup and CC, he have his songs. I great character all around.
BTW, I have noticed the usefulness of bards when I made a party with Xan as my only mage. I took Garrik and loaded him with all the offensive spells and he is really great. Because he is higher level the Xan, so even if Xan could cast evocation it will still be weaker then Garrik's. After he is nuking, he starts using his bow, with the archer bracers, and he is doing a great job.
RUN AWAYYYYY
on a serious note, was thinking of making a thread and doing a solo bard no reload challenge on standard rules and seeing how people fare. I don't play bards often enough myself, I think it's time to spread the love around and put time in with all the classes and kits
Now that I think about it, a Jester is probably more self-sufficient, I just hate playing them. 90% of the game is going to be running around invisible while singing, seems boring.
for any and all no-reload or minimal reload ideas. The best players in the world congregate in this thread, and in the corresponding BG2 no- and minimal reload runs. These folks are international grandmaster level players, and they know everything there is to know about BG. They have all been playing the game without reloading, over and over, for more than a decade.
If you want to socialize with the best BG players in the world, and try out any and all ideas about it, these people are your friends. You will not believe how much you can learn and enjoy about BG by reading and following the no-reload blogs of @Grond0, @Gate70, @UssNorway, @CoreyRussel, @Alesia_BH, @Blackmalkin, and so many others.
Every time I start to think that I know which end is up in the grand chess game that is Baldur's Gate, I read the posts of these people, and I marvel and am humbled at their grandmastery of the game. If this were really chess, I think I'd be barely above novice level in comparison to their grandmastery.
Kensages are undoubtably better casters because of their access to higher circle spells & spell casts per day, but Bards are more powerful mages than the multiclass variants (at least until quite a bit into ToB). Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bard's level = casting level. What that means is that spells that improve based on caster level, are vastly superior on Bards because of their rapid level growth (as well as longer durations). Skull trap and Flame Arrow, in particular, are absolutely, ridiculously powerful since they have no level caps. F/Ms eventually get higher spell circles and more casts a day, but Bards always have the more powerful 1st-6th Level Spells.
As warriors, Bards are quite powerful with Tenser's Transformation. True warriors would have more HP, more APR, better weapon proficiency, and better martial HLAs, but Bards would at least have much better THAC0 while in transformation. Blades can at least get pretty decent APRs with Belm and/or Scarlet Ninja-To and can do at least on par or higher damage per hit, thanks to Offensive Spin.
On top of all that, UAI allows them to use some pretty nice item combos (i.e. 100% Magic Resist with Carsomyr + other items). They also have access to time stop via Time Trap and the powerful (albeit cheesy IMO) Spike Trap.
While i wouldn't say they are overpowered, Bards are definitely good IMO.
I could actually see myself playing a bard if they had lockpicking abilities but since they don't I feel your better off being a Thief/Mage like Imoen instead.