Thanks @Darkovan - is the Melodic Chain basically +3 chain that lets you cast spells then (like eleven chain), but restricted to bard-only (so a figher/mage couldn't use it)?
yeah, it's bard only elven chain (AC2). I mentioned it a few posts above, but not by name. It drops off the leader of the bounty hunters you fight when first arriving at the planar prison, same place as that early pair of boots of speed...and a few fights later, kuudane.
@Edwin: he'd be talking about a... rapier, right? 10/10. I love bards in later iterations of D&D, but I'll have to try a blade (DW) or skald (longbow/2H) for a later BG:EE run.
Bards are useless... Garrick is a perfect example. Chronically useless. He is so useless that even when you kill him out of exasperation, he gives you no xp... That is how bad bards are...
Go multi-class or dual over singular bard. Bards do level up quick, but why is this a good thing? Advantages after lvl 20 drop away for all classes? Plenty of time for a multi or a dual to level up too, going for the long play scenario... If your just gonna play BG... STILL DON'T GO WITH A BARD!
Just my opinion... Actually to make your game difficult and interesting play bard. (And Rogue Rebalancing is pretty amazing mod... Although if you put that mod onto your BG:EE install you will play a THIEF!
Actually, RR buffs Bards till they're ALMOST as powerful as they SHOULD be...still not 100% but it does correct a lot of the missing or incorrectly working stuff.
It would be more accurate to say that Bards actually require some micromanagement to use effectively...less then thieves, and more then fighters, about the same as a mage..that can actually fight half-way decent in melee or shoot things. And yes..I've taken a solo Bard (no mods) that makes Garrick look like Sarevok by comparison through the whole saga without issue...just a plain bard, no kits, just fine. And it was MUCH easier then a single class warrior solo, or even my Bounty Hunter solo which while fun as hell, the final battle was rough due to being almost impossible to set traps, and nothing was vulnerable to BS. The Bard blew through all that easily..and bare in mind, I purposely set all his stats to 10 at creation, just to see how much difference it would make. I wasn't playing no-reloads, but I never had to, so it didn't matter (Core rules) also no rest, fence, item recharge, scribe and remove or trap cheese abuse or any engine exploits.
And technically speaking, if not for laziness on the part of the developers, Bards can dual-class just fine in PnP...well...if you have the stats for it, since they're tied with druids and paladins for being hard as hell to roll for. It's actually pretty hard to get stats for them since they have 2 main requisites that would have to be 17+ to dual into (in addition to 15 charisma as a 2ndry stat), or 15+ to dual away from.
All I want in a bard is what Icewind Dale's version of the bard class has. If you're not familiar, they get multiple bard songs as they progress, they're all useful, and you can choose which song to play.
The Ballad of Three Heroes Gained at beginning of game. While being played, all allies gain +1 to hit and damage, and +1 to saving throws.
The Tale of Curran Strongheart Gained at level three. While being played, all fear effects are removed from allies and immunity to fear is granted until song is stopped.
Tymora's Melody Gained at level five. While being played, allies gain +1 Luck, +3 saving throws, +10% to lore and thief skills.
The Song of Kaudies Gained at level seven. While being played, allies gain a 50% chance to resist sound-based attacks such as Command, Great Shout, Shout and Silence.
The Siren's Yearning Gained at level nine. While being played, enemies must save vs. spell or be enthralled. They will be unable to take any action for one turn or until damage is taken.
War Chant of Sith Gained at level eleven. While being played, allies gain -2 AC bonus, +10% resistance to crushing, missile attacks, piercing, and slashing and regeneration of two hit points per round.
They also get spell progression all the way up to 8th level and become just as powerful capacity-wise as mages up to 5th level spells...though you need an xp cap remover to hit that. Due to the cap though, you wouldn't really notice, since they simply keep progressing beyond what the actual spell progression chart for PnP or BG 1/2 says (of which I have no idea where they got that progression from...I literally can't find a source for it anywhere in and official supplement I've looked through so far)
Technically speaking, that Ballad of three heroes is almost what the Bard song is actually supposed to do, except it only does 1 effect at a time.
Thanks @Darkovan - is the Melodic Chain basically +3 chain that lets you cast spells then (like eleven chain), but restricted to bard-only (so a figher/mage couldn't use it)?
Out of curiosity, what happens to the Epic Level Jester if they pick up the Bard Song HLA?
To weigh in on the Fighter/Mage versus Bard question, I've said it once before, but it's an inappropriate match-up; the Fighter/Mage picks up too many of the cheesy high level spells and misses out on the thievery aspect.
Instead, the Bard is intended to coincide with the Fighter/Mage/Thief.
BG:EE cap: 161,000 SoA cap: 2,950,000 ToB cap: 8,000,000
Raw chassis-wise, the F/M/T can wear helmets (the single most valuable item in the game), gets Fighter Con bonuses for their levelling, and can get additional attacks from Specialisation.
For BG:EE, this means the bard hits level 10 , has 10d6 HP, a THAC0 of 16, 11/10/10/14/11 saves, and 4 proficiency pips, 3/3/2/1 spells, bard song and pickpocket, along with any kit bonuses. In SoA that increases to level 23, 7 proficiency pips, 10d6+26 HP, THAC0 capped at 10, 8/4/7/11/5 saves, 5/5/5/4/4/3 spells and a caster level of 20 for everything. By the ToB cap the Bard has capped out at 10D6+60 HP, saves, CL and THAC0 don't change, but he gets 5/5/5/5/5/5 spells now and has 17 HLAs from the Thief pool.
Meanwhile, with 53k Exp in BG:EE, 983k in SoA and 2.66 million in ToB, this means the F/M/T in BG:EE gets:
Level 6/6/7: THAC0 15, ([6D10+7D6+6D4]/3) HP (HP gone into below), 6 Proficiency Pips, 1.5 Attacks with Specialisation, 11/9/11/13/10 saves (overall a very slight improvement versus the Bard), 190 points into Thief Skills (utterly trouncing any consideration for picking pockets, if, for some unholy reason, you invested skill points into it), a Backstab multiplier of x3 and 4/2/2 spells. Because of limitations to the BG engine, one sadly cannot kit in Bladesinger etc into the F/M/T.
So in BG:EE a Bard will have more spells overall, a single 4th level spell to play with, and will have a Caster Level of 10. They will also have 60 HP (max rolls), or 37.5 HP (Average rolls), compared to the F/M/T's 42 or 20 HP (Average rolls).
Even assuming a Con of 18 with Tomes, an F/M/T gets 24 HP from Con, a level 10 bard I assume gains Con on all ten of their levels, but only gains +2 HP/level, giving them 20 HP, so a Bard is anywhere from 57-80 HP compared to the F/M/T's 44-66 HP.
It's worth mentioning that many PnP campaigns could happily end around level 10, so in this early window it's especially clear what the "point" is for Bards, they're F/M/Ts who sacrifice some of their power in exchange for Hit Die benefits in the form of HP and spell-casting abilities.
In SoA the F/M/T hits 11/12/14, giving them a THAC0 of 10, the full 9 levels of Fighter Con, ([9D10+9D6+9D4]/3) +([3+1D6+1D4]/3) + ([3+8+2]/3) HP*, 7/7/8/8/8 saves, 2 Attacks with Specialisation, 365 points for Thievery, x5 Backstabs, 7 Proficiency points, and 4/4/4/4/4/1 spells. * Assuming solely Max rolls because otherwise I'll kill myself and everyone around me, ~68 HP versus 86 for the Bard. With Fighter Con bonus, this works out with 18 Con to 104 for both of them if I've remembered my multiclassing HP rules right.
Here again, the Hit Die bonus is apparent, though HP isn't much different now, the CL of 20 and at least one extra spell per level over the F/M/T is the Bard's major advantage. They are pretty well neck-and-neck.
I believe with IWD rules or something, Bards even pick up level 7 and 8 spells at high levels as well, which kept the comparison going even further, but for BG it's when you hit ToB where things break down.
3/4/4/4/5 saves, a THAC0 of 3, level *8* spells, 10 proficiency pips, 20 HLAs from both the best HLA pool and two others for increased versatility, a CL of 17, 5/5/5/5/5/3/3/2 spells (meaning the only bonus for a Bard is two more level 6 spells and 3D6 on a spellcasting), 565 thievery skill points and 2.5 attacks with specialisation means outside of kits and their Bard song buff (which gets pretty neat at this point), the only advantage a Bard gets is HP of all things, 140 base HP with 16 Con versus the F/M/T's slightly lower after Fighter con benefits.
Since many folks don't play ToB, this means if you're not planning to either, a Bard is almost directly comparable to an F/M/T with some leeway in each direction.
tl;dr: Bards are equivalent to F/M/Ts, that's the point.
Nah it's just called Jester's chain...it doesn't even allow spell casting...it's just REALLY garishly colored. It's just a suit of REALLY ugly +4 chain mail.
excerpt from one my fav OotS stips. Not exactly the same deal...since that combo is actually much worse then a F/M/T...but the idea is the same.
All bards have in common with thieves is pickpocketing and HLAs, making them much closer to F/Ms with minor extras than F/M/Ts; and showing them to be better than F/M/Ts doesn't really impact the comparison to F/Ms in any case.
All bards have in common with thieves is pickpocketing and HLAs, making them much closer to F/Ms with minor extras than F/M/Ts; and showing them to be better than F/M/Ts doesn't really impact the comparison to F/Ms in any case.
IWD bards are far better implemented though.
Bards have Thief THAC0 progression, Thief Saves, Thief Exp progression,and yes, Thief HLAs. Bards are explicitly intended by fluff to be a "Sneaky" class, and are one of the two Rogue type classes in the game.
Whether you feel this to be closer to the Fighter/Mage or not is largely irrelevant in the face of the fact that Bards are intended to be equivalent to the Fighter/Mage/Thief, and compare much more smoothly with them as a result.
All bards have in common with thieves is pickpocketing and HLAs, making them much closer to F/Ms with minor extras than F/M/Ts; and showing them to be better than F/M/Ts doesn't really impact the comparison to F/Ms in any case.
IWD bards are far better implemented though.
Bards have Thief THAC0 progression, Thief Saves, Thief Exp progression,and yes, Thief HLAs. Bards are explicitly intended by fluff to be a "Sneaky" class, and are one of the two Rogue type classes in the game.
Whether you feel this to be closer to the Fighter/Mage or not is largely irrelevant in the face of the fact that Bards are intended to be equivalent to the Fighter/Mage/Thief, and compare much more smoothly with them as a result.
QFT
I don't think that anyone can miss the thief orientation of the bard. If you want to compare a bard to something which is the same but "better" make sure that he will also have something to cover the pick pocket, bard song and later on the HLAs. This is why the best comperison is to the fighter/mage/thief. Because this is what the bard is. He can use any weapon, he can cast spells and he have some thief abilities. Fighter mage doesn't have thief abilities and can't use thief HLAs. (which are much better the fighter IMO :P).
But saves and thac0 progression can be compared between classes just fine- thats what I did for F/M after all.
Its the class specific features that are significant in defining a characters gameplay functionality, and prior to TOB- which is where you have applied your comparison- the bard has the same number of thief specific abilities as a ranger and less than a monk, i.e., not a whole lot. Its a comparison that doesn't reflect the actual functionality of the class- it plays as an arcane spellcaster who fights a bit; bardsong and pickpocketing do not thief equivalency make- indeed, your comparison doesn't actually compare any thief specific abilities.
F/M/T is what a bard should be compared to fluff wise and it would be nice if they were more like that, but it just doesn't go with thief functionality in game.
But saves and thac0 progression can be compared between classes just fine- thats what I did for F/M after all.
Its the class specific features that are significant in defining a characters gameplay functionality, and prior to TOB- which is where you have applied your comparison- the bard has the same number of thief specific abilities as a ranger or monk, i.e., not a whole lot. Its a comparison that doesn't reflect the actual functionality of the class- it plays as an arcane spellcaster who fights a bit; bardsong and pickpocketing do not thief equivalency make- indeed, your comparison doesn't actually compare any thief specific abilities.
F/M/T is what a bard should be compared to fluff wise and it would be nice if they were more like that, but it just doesn't go with thief functionality in game.
It's more obvious in PnP with non-weapon proficiencies, the Bard picks up Warrior, Rogue and Wizard proficiencies, whilst being one of only two classes that can do "thiefy" things like Setting Snares, walking on tight ropes, disguises, forgery and tumbling. Since BG is so limited compared to PnP, this aspect is lost, but 'tis from thence that the bard class comes.
I'm aware thats the case in p&p- thats why I said its unfortunate this is not reflected in the game. It would be nice if the game reflected more of that background, and I totally understand the fluff appeal of that.
However, whats been implemented is basically an arcane spellsword with a couple of minor class features and a different HLA pool, which makes F/M a very valid comparison.
Critical thief requirements in D&D is the dungeoneering skills; open locks, find/remove traps. Bard doesn't have that which makes the thief comparison pretty weak. At a core skill level fighter/mage is closer to what they do. I'd drop a fighter or a mage if I wanted to include a bard for variation but never a thief.
Every memorization of Identify is one memorization less for Magic Missile.
For my money, there is never a NEED for identification in the midst of a dungeon/adventure. At least in BG1 there isn't. There really isn't anything that is so awesome that you absolutely need to use it before going back to town. And by the time you get to 'The Gate', your Rogue or Wizard should be high enough in Lore to identify +1 items including most scrolls, quite a few potions and even the odd wand.
It might be NICE to have, but I don't cut down on firepower simply to have Identify. And I don't lose anything (at least in my own opinion, I don't) not having it.
Regarding the thread topic, how about Role playing?
@Justarius Well technically PnP Bards can actually do that, but unlike a thief who can put class based skill points directly in the ability, the Bard has to spend non-combat proficiencies in Dungeoneering (for find and remove traps) or locksmithing (for open locks). Each point spent gives them the equivalent of 10 find trap or open lock.
So yes, they technically can, they're just no where near as efficient as a thief is, and none of the non-combat stuff is implemented in BG.
@Justarius Well technically PnP Bards can actually do that, but unlike a thief who can put class based skill points directly in the ability, the Bard has to spend non-combat proficiencies in Dungeoneering (for find and remove traps) or locksmithing (for open locks). Each point spent gives them the equivalent of 10 find trap or open lock.
So yes, they technically can, they're just no where near as efficient as a thief is, and none of the non-combat stuff is implemented in BG.
PnP is another kettle of fish entirely. Sadly here in BGland Bards get one thieves skill alone. Pick pocketing is handy but it's not the must have skill that you'd be wanting a thief for.
i've just started an evil jester and it's pretty awesome! she dances around confusing enemies while kagain and dorn mop up. and bard song + potion of invisibility means she can sit there confusing enemies without becoming visible plus she's a decent back up caster. lots of chromatic orbs for lvl 1 spells then buffs for the other levels
@Justarius Well technically PnP Bards can actually do that, but unlike a thief who can put class based skill points directly in the ability, the Bard has to spend non-combat proficiencies in Dungeoneering (for find and remove traps) or locksmithing (for open locks). Each point spent gives them the equivalent of 10 find trap or open lock.
So yes, they technically can, they're just no where near as efficient as a thief is, and none of the non-combat stuff is implemented in BG.
PnP is another kettle of fish entirely. Sadly here in BGland Bards get one thieves skill alone. Pick pocketing is handy but it's not the must have skill that you'd be wanting a thief for.
Well, technically, the bard can still open locks and disable traps. Opening locks would use Knock, disarming traps would require buffing and just marching him through it
Well, technically, the bard can still open locks and disable traps. Opening locks would use Knock, disarming traps would require buffing and just marching him through it
Good luck in BG2 with that, there are very nasty traps there
Still, for BG2 and with rogue rebalance I'd go for the Skald kit (or BGEE->BG2 or maybe BG2EE). His song gets further upgraded to +5 damage/-5 AC and negates stun/fear/confusion. (with SCSII installed you'll encounter these debuffs 'very' often). He also gets a HLA summon that is equal to Deva/Planetar (or Skalds' is stronger than the other bard/kits) and uses the proper PnP spell-table.
And specially the damage boost for every damage dealer is a huge asset, he wouldn't even be needed to deal damage himself..just playing his song makes easily up for a missing damage-dealer spot in the party.
For only BGEE I guess I wouldn't necessary play a bard :P
- Aslyferund Elven Chain +5 - Bladesinger Chain +4 - Jester's Chain +4 (Bard only) - if sided with Bodhi: Elven Chain +1 in chapter 3
[upps sorry, Bard only Jester's Chain...though usually Vecna goes to my mage..so the elven armor whoever casts too and can wear it]
SOme of these intruments can be used by anyone. (the valhalla-series) not sure about the other horns, but the harps are limited to bards only and without Rogue Rebalance to Thiefs and the HLA (use any item)
Comments
Go multi-class or dual over singular bard. Bards do level up quick, but why is this a good thing? Advantages after lvl 20 drop away for all classes? Plenty of time for a multi or a dual to level up too, going for the long play scenario... If your just gonna play BG... STILL DON'T GO WITH A BARD!
Just my opinion... Actually to make your game difficult and interesting play bard. (And Rogue Rebalancing is pretty amazing mod... Although if you put that mod onto your BG:EE install you will play a THIEF!
"...That sign actually says 'The Rapist'...many people do come in here expecting a Therapist...I should change that..."
It would be more accurate to say that Bards actually require some micromanagement to use effectively...less then thieves, and more then fighters, about the same as a mage..that can actually fight half-way decent in melee or shoot things. And yes..I've taken a solo Bard (no mods) that makes Garrick look like Sarevok by comparison through the whole saga without issue...just a plain bard, no kits, just fine. And it was MUCH easier then a single class warrior solo, or even my Bounty Hunter solo which while fun as hell, the final battle was rough due to being almost impossible to set traps, and nothing was vulnerable to BS. The Bard blew through all that easily..and bare in mind, I purposely set all his stats to 10 at creation, just to see how much difference it would make. I wasn't playing no-reloads, but I never had to, so it didn't matter (Core rules) also no rest, fence, item recharge, scribe and remove or trap cheese abuse or any engine exploits.
And technically speaking, if not for laziness on the part of the developers, Bards can dual-class just fine in PnP...well...if you have the stats for it, since they're tied with druids and paladins for being hard as hell to roll for. It's actually pretty hard to get stats for them since they have 2 main requisites that would have to be 17+ to dual into (in addition to 15 charisma as a 2ndry stat), or 15+ to dual away from.
The Ballad of Three Heroes
Gained at beginning of game. While being played, all allies gain +1 to hit and damage, and +1 to saving throws.
The Tale of Curran Strongheart
Gained at level three. While being played, all fear effects are removed from allies and immunity to fear is granted until song is stopped.
Tymora's Melody
Gained at level five. While being played, allies gain +1 Luck, +3 saving throws, +10% to lore and thief skills.
The Song of Kaudies
Gained at level seven. While being played, allies gain a 50% chance to resist sound-based attacks such as Command, Great Shout, Shout and Silence.
The Siren's Yearning
Gained at level nine. While being played, enemies must save vs. spell or be enthralled. They will be unable to take any action for one turn or until damage is taken.
War Chant of Sith
Gained at level eleven. While being played, allies gain -2 AC bonus, +10% resistance to crushing, missile attacks, piercing, and slashing and regeneration of two hit points per round.
Technically speaking, that Ballad of three heroes is almost what the Bard song is actually supposed to do, except it only does 1 effect at a time.
To weigh in on the Fighter/Mage versus Bard question, I've said it once before, but it's an inappropriate match-up; the Fighter/Mage picks up too many of the cheesy high level spells and misses out on the thievery aspect.
Instead, the Bard is intended to coincide with the Fighter/Mage/Thief.
BG:EE cap: 161,000
SoA cap: 2,950,000
ToB cap: 8,000,000
Raw chassis-wise, the F/M/T can wear helmets (the single most valuable item in the game), gets Fighter Con bonuses for their levelling, and can get additional attacks from Specialisation.
For BG:EE, this means the bard hits level 10 , has 10d6 HP, a THAC0 of 16, 11/10/10/14/11 saves, and 4 proficiency pips, 3/3/2/1 spells, bard song and pickpocket, along with any kit bonuses.
In SoA that increases to level 23, 7 proficiency pips, 10d6+26 HP, THAC0 capped at 10, 8/4/7/11/5 saves, 5/5/5/4/4/3 spells and a caster level of 20 for everything.
By the ToB cap the Bard has capped out at 10D6+60 HP, saves, CL and THAC0 don't change, but he gets 5/5/5/5/5/5 spells now and has 17 HLAs from the Thief pool.
Meanwhile, with 53k Exp in BG:EE, 983k in SoA and 2.66 million in ToB, this means the F/M/T in BG:EE gets:
Level 6/6/7: THAC0 15, ([6D10+7D6+6D4]/3) HP (HP gone into below), 6 Proficiency Pips, 1.5 Attacks with Specialisation, 11/9/11/13/10 saves (overall a very slight improvement versus the Bard), 190 points into Thief Skills (utterly trouncing any consideration for picking pockets, if, for some unholy reason, you invested skill points into it), a Backstab multiplier of x3 and 4/2/2 spells. Because of limitations to the BG engine, one sadly cannot kit in Bladesinger etc into the F/M/T.
So in BG:EE a Bard will have more spells overall, a single 4th level spell to play with, and will have a Caster Level of 10. They will also have 60 HP (max rolls), or 37.5 HP (Average rolls), compared to the F/M/T's 42 or 20 HP (Average rolls).
Even assuming a Con of 18 with Tomes, an F/M/T gets 24 HP from Con, a level 10 bard I assume gains Con on all ten of their levels, but only gains +2 HP/level, giving them 20 HP, so a Bard is anywhere from 57-80 HP compared to the F/M/T's 44-66 HP.
It's worth mentioning that many PnP campaigns could happily end around level 10, so in this early window it's especially clear what the "point" is for Bards, they're F/M/Ts who sacrifice some of their power in exchange for Hit Die benefits in the form of HP and spell-casting abilities.
In SoA the F/M/T hits 11/12/14, giving them a THAC0 of 10, the full 9 levels of Fighter Con, ([9D10+9D6+9D4]/3) +([3+1D6+1D4]/3) + ([3+8+2]/3) HP*, 7/7/8/8/8 saves, 2 Attacks with Specialisation, 365 points for Thievery, x5 Backstabs, 7 Proficiency points, and 4/4/4/4/4/1 spells.
* Assuming solely Max rolls because otherwise I'll kill myself and everyone around me, ~68 HP versus 86 for the Bard. With Fighter Con bonus, this works out with 18 Con to 104 for both of them if I've remembered my multiclassing HP rules right.
Here again, the Hit Die bonus is apparent, though HP isn't much different now, the CL of 20 and at least one extra spell per level over the F/M/T is the Bard's major advantage. They are pretty well neck-and-neck.
I believe with IWD rules or something, Bards even pick up level 7 and 8 spells at high levels as well, which kept the comparison going even further, but for BG it's when you hit ToB where things break down.
3/4/4/4/5 saves, a THAC0 of 3, level *8* spells, 10 proficiency pips, 20 HLAs from both the best HLA pool and two others for increased versatility, a CL of 17, 5/5/5/5/5/3/3/2 spells (meaning the only bonus for a Bard is two more level 6 spells and 3D6 on a spellcasting), 565 thievery skill points and 2.5 attacks with specialisation means outside of kits and their Bard song buff (which gets pretty neat at this point), the only advantage a Bard gets is HP of all things, 140 base HP with 16 Con versus the F/M/T's slightly lower after Fighter con benefits.
Since many folks don't play ToB, this means if you're not planning to either, a Bard is almost directly comparable to an F/M/T with some leeway in each direction.
tl;dr: Bards are equivalent to F/M/Ts, that's the point.
excerpt from one my fav OotS stips. Not exactly the same deal...since that combo is actually much worse then a F/M/T...but the idea is the same.
And The Man, telling it how it is.
IWD bards are far better implemented though.
Whether you feel this to be closer to the Fighter/Mage or not is largely irrelevant in the face of the fact that Bards are intended to be equivalent to the Fighter/Mage/Thief, and compare much more smoothly with them as a result.
I don't think that anyone can miss the thief orientation of the bard. If you want to compare a bard to something which is the same but "better" make sure that he will also have something to cover the pick pocket, bard song and later on the HLAs. This is why the best comperison is to the fighter/mage/thief. Because this is what the bard is. He can use any weapon, he can cast spells and he have some thief abilities. Fighter mage doesn't have thief abilities and can't use thief HLAs. (which are much better the fighter IMO :P).
Its the class specific features that are significant in defining a characters gameplay functionality, and prior to TOB- which is where you have applied your comparison- the bard has the same number of thief specific abilities as a ranger and less than a monk, i.e., not a whole lot. Its a comparison that doesn't reflect the actual functionality of the class- it plays as an arcane spellcaster who fights a bit; bardsong and pickpocketing do not thief equivalency make- indeed, your comparison doesn't actually compare any thief specific abilities.
F/M/T is what a bard should be compared to fluff wise and it would be nice if they were more like that, but it just doesn't go with thief functionality in game.
However, whats been implemented is basically an arcane spellsword with a couple of minor class features and a different HLA pool, which makes F/M a very valid comparison.
I'd drop a fighter or a mage if I wanted to include a bard for variation but never a thief.
It might be NICE to have, but I don't cut down on firepower simply to have Identify. And I don't lose anything (at least in my own opinion, I don't) not having it.
Regarding the thread topic, how about Role playing?
So yes, they technically can, they're just no where near as efficient as a thief is, and none of the non-combat stuff is implemented in BG.
Melodic Chain (+3 elven chain)
Wonderous Gloves (+1 bonus AC, +1 THACO, +1 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spell
I'm assuming these instruments are also all bard-only, or can any character use some of these (e.g. horns)?:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/equipment/instruments.php
Still, for BG2 and with rogue rebalance I'd go for the Skald kit (or BGEE->BG2 or maybe BG2EE). His song gets further upgraded to +5 damage/-5 AC and negates stun/fear/confusion. (with SCSII installed you'll encounter these debuffs 'very' often). He also gets a HLA summon that is equal to Deva/Planetar (or Skalds' is stronger than the other bard/kits) and uses the proper PnP spell-table.
And specially the damage boost for every damage dealer is a huge asset, he wouldn't even be needed to deal damage himself..just playing his song makes easily up for a missing damage-dealer spot in the party.
For only BGEE I guess I wouldn't necessary play a bard :P - Aslyferund Elven Chain +5
- Bladesinger Chain +4
- Jester's Chain +4 (Bard only)
- if sided with Bodhi: Elven Chain +1 in chapter 3
[upps sorry, Bard only Jester's Chain...though usually Vecna goes to my mage..so the elven armor whoever casts too and can wear it]
SOme of these intruments can be used by anyone. (the valhalla-series) not sure about the other horns, but the harps are limited to bards only and without Rogue Rebalance to Thiefs and the HLA (use any item)