Yep. You need 15 Cha in order to dualclass away from a Shadowdancer. I thought it was strange that they had to have a minimum of 12 Cha... guess it's one of their primary attributes.
Yep. You need 15 Cha in order to dualclass away from a Shadowdancer. I thought it was strange that they had to have a minimum of 12 Cha... guess it's one of their primary attributes.
"You must be at least THIS pretty to not get noticed."
Wow... okay i did some more testing. Apparently Str, Dex, AND Cha are the Shadowdancer's primary attributes. So you need 15 Str/Dex/Cha as well as 17 in the primary attribute of the class you're dualclassing to.... talk about strict...
Where is this rule written? A thief needs only 15 in his prime stat - DEX - to dual-class. A requirement of min 15 CHA contradicts the rules. It must be changed! Or at least it must be said in one of the in-game descriptions!
Where is this rule written? A thief needs only 15 in his prime stat - DEX - to dual-class. A requirement of min 15 CHA contradicts the rules. It must be changed! Or at least it must be said in one of the in-game descriptions!
It isn't written anywhere, but if you notice the Str and Cha requirements for the kit is a lot higher. You need 10 Str and 12 Cha just to roll one.
Anyway, I was unable to dualclass into a Mage unless I had those three stats at 15 min (primary attribute for first class) and 17 int (primary attribute for second class). You need 15 in the primary stat(s) of your first class and 17 stat of your second class in order to dual-class.
So from those reasons above, I deduced that all three are the Shadowdancer's primary stats.
Also take note that Dragon Disciples can't have less than 10 Str, 14 Dex, 15 Cha, and 3 Int as opposed to the vanilla Sorceror's 3 Str, 3 Dex, 9 Cha, and 9 Int.
While I'm grateful for the new kits, I'm disappointed with the quality of this patch. Let me summarize:
The Shadowdancer has too many bugs to enumerate. The Dragon Disciple doesn't match the kit description (less spells per day is a much worse penalty than less spells known). The Dark Moon monk doesn't get monk fist damage with touch attack spells, which is pretty much the whole point of that kit. Rashaad isn't a Sun Soul monk even though his whole story is about him being a Sun Soul monk and even though he is a rather underpowered NPC.
I would like to see a hotfix pretty soon so that the kits match the developers' intent.
While I'm grateful for the new kits, I'm disappointed with the quality of this patch. Let me summarize:
The Shadowdancer has too many bugs to enumerate. The Dragon Disciple doesn't match the kit description (less spells per day is a much worse penalty than less spells known). The Dark Moon monk doesn't get monk fist damage with touch attack spells, which is pretty much the whole point of that kit. Rashaad isn't a Sun Soul monk even though his whole story is about him being a Sun Soul monk and even though he is a rather underpowered NPC.
I would like to see a hotfix pretty soon so that the kits match the developers' intent.
I think you simply misinterpreted their intent with the Dragon Disciple.
I always read the Dragon Disciple as being less spells per day. I figured the trade was fine considering he'll be able to heal himself with fire in practically no time. (A wand of Fire later and he's gonna be a powerhouse)
The other bugs are solvable. I think the shorty bug with stats is the main issue. Honestly they're brand new kits, give it a month and they'll be square, Overhaul is doing a great job and the game play is getting better and better with each patch release. (Don't forget a lot of companies would have stopped patching by now no matter what the fanfare.)
I do agree however that they should change Rashaad to a Sun Soul Monk but with the new EE Shadowkeeper being released recently you can just change it yourself in two minutes.
I think properly requesting the changes you want on the forum is the way to go, they really do seem to listen.
@Debaser the current description of the Dragon Disciple states that they "May only learn up to four spells per level". To me that pretty clearly means that the limit should be on how many spells they know per level, not on how many spells they can cast per level per day.
While I'm grateful for the new kits, I'm disappointed with the quality of this patch. Let me summarize:
The Shadowdancer has too many bugs to enumerate. The Dragon Disciple doesn't match the kit description (less spells per day is a much worse penalty than less spells known). The Dark Moon monk doesn't get monk fist damage with touch attack spells, which is pretty much the whole point of that kit. Rashaad isn't a Sun Soul monk even though his whole story is about him being a Sun Soul monk and even though he is a rather underpowered NPC.
I would like to see a hotfix pretty soon so that the kits match the developers' intent.
I think you simply misinterpreted their intent with the Dragon Disciple.
I always read the Dragon Disciple as being less spells per day. I figured the trade was fine considering he'll be able to heal himself with fire in practically no time. (A wand of Fire later and he's gonna be a powerhouse)
The other bugs are solvable. I think the shorty bug with stats is the main issue. Honestly they're brand new kits, give it a month and they'll be square, Overhaul is doing a great job and the game play is getting better and better with each patch release. (Don't forget a lot of companies would have stopped patching by now no matter what the fanfare.)
I do agree however that they should change Rashaad to a Sun Soul Monk but with the new EE Shadowkeeper being released recently you can just change it yourself in two minutes.
Though Shadowkeeper can be problematic when trying to change kits in my experience, it doesn't always seem to apply level 1 abilities correctly. Sometimes this can be fixed by giving the starting level as 0 (and then you can level up immediately), but not always
While I'm grateful for the new kits, I'm disappointed with the quality of this patch. Let me summarize:
The Shadowdancer has too many bugs to enumerate. The Dragon Disciple doesn't match the kit description (less spells per day is a much worse penalty than less spells known). The Dark Moon monk doesn't get monk fist damage with touch attack spells, which is pretty much the whole point of that kit. Rashaad isn't a Sun Soul monk even though his whole story is about him being a Sun Soul monk and even though he is a rather underpowered NPC.
I would like to see a hotfix pretty soon so that the kits match the developers' intent.
I think you simply misinterpreted their intent with the Dragon Disciple.
I always read the Dragon Disciple as being less spells per day. I figured the trade was fine considering he'll be able to heal himself with fire in practically no time. (A wand of Fire later and he's gonna be a powerhouse)
The other bugs are solvable. I think the shorty bug with stats is the main issue. Honestly they're brand new kits, give it a month and they'll be square, Overhaul is doing a great job and the game play is getting better and better with each patch release. (Don't forget a lot of companies would have stopped patching by now no matter what the fanfare.)
I do agree however that they should change Rashaad to a Sun Soul Monk but with the new EE Shadowkeeper being released recently you can just change it yourself in two minutes.
Though Shadowkeeper can be problematic when trying to change kits in my experience, it doesn't always seem to apply level 1 abilities correctly. Sometimes this can be fixed by giving the starting level as 0 (and then you can level up immediately), but not always
@Debaser the current description of the Dragon Disciple states that they "May only learn up to four spells per level". To me that pretty clearly means that the limit should be on how many spells they know per level, not on how many spells they can cast per level per day.
Question on the Dragon Disciple breath weapon... is there any significant reason why this would be better then simply a fireball spell? Does it ignore magic resistance/ not harm party members/ do something else cool besides work as a fire type cone of cold?
Question on the Dragon Disciple breath weapon... is there any significant reason why this would be better then simply a fireball spell? Does it ignore magic resistance/ not harm party members/ do something else cool besides work as a fire type cone of cold?
I'm curious about this, now that you bring it up. I hope at minimum it uses Breath Weapon saves, which might be worse than Spell saves.
If its done like pnp it will ignore magic resistance as it is not a spell.
You should be able to use it whilst silenced too, but given that you cant use powers like barbarian/berserker rage whilst silenced, I'm not holding my breath.
If its done like pnp it will ignore magic resistance as it is not a spell.
You should be able to use it whilst silenced too, but given that you cant use powers like barbarian/berserker rage whilst silenced, I'm not holding my breath.
While I'm grateful for the new kits, I'm disappointed with the quality of this patch. Let me summarize:
The Shadowdancer has too many bugs to enumerate. The Dragon Disciple doesn't match the kit description (less spells per day is a much worse penalty than less spells known). The Dark Moon monk doesn't get monk fist damage with touch attack spells, which is pretty much the whole point of that kit. Rashaad isn't a Sun Soul monk even though his whole story is about him being a Sun Soul monk and even though he is a rather underpowered NPC.
I would like to see a hotfix pretty soon so that the kits match the developers' intent.
I think you simply misinterpreted their intent with the Dragon Disciple.
I always read the Dragon Disciple as being less spells per day. I figured the trade was fine considering he'll be able to heal himself with fire in practically no time. (A wand of Fire later and he's gonna be a powerhouse)
The other bugs are solvable. I think the shorty bug with stats is the main issue. Honestly they're brand new kits, give it a month and they'll be square, Overhaul is doing a great job and the game play is getting better and better with each patch release. (Don't forget a lot of companies would have stopped patching by now no matter what the fanfare.)
I do agree however that they should change Rashaad to a Sun Soul Monk but with the new EE Shadowkeeper being released recently you can just change it yourself in two minutes.
Though Shadowkeeper can be problematic when trying to change kits in my experience, it doesn't always seem to apply level 1 abilities correctly. Sometimes this can be fixed by giving the starting level as 0 (and then you can level up immediately), but not always
Question on the Dragon Disciple breath weapon... is there any significant reason why this would be better then simply a fireball spell? Does it ignore magic resistance/ not harm party members/ do something else cool besides work as a fire type cone of cold?
I'm curious about this, now that you bring it up. I hope at minimum it uses Breath Weapon saves, which might be worse than Spell saves.
Judging by the description, it doesn't allow a save at all, though I haven't tested it. Also, the relatively unique cone AoE might be easier to use against enemies who have already engaged you in melee relative to fireball, with enough practice.
Judging by the description, it doesn't allow a save at all, though I haven't tested it. Also, the relatively unique cone AoE might be easier to use against enemies who have already engaged you in melee relative to fireball, with enough practice.
About that. I've been playing with a 6x Dragon Disciple run and something seems wonky with what their breath hits. Near as I can tell, it has a minimum range - so you can stand right behind your party while using it and not hit them, but you can't hit enemies right next to you with it. I'm not sure if this is how it works, but it's targeting definitely seems more selective than the description suggests.
Also, friendly fire is definitely possible - ended up frying my CHARNAME while testing it out.
Seems to me that a major benefit of the Disciple's breath weapon is that you can get it so early in the game. A sorcerer can't learn Fireball until level six, after all, but a Disciple can breathe fire as early as level 3. I haven't quite hit that yet in my current playthrough, but I expect it to be major overkill against groups of kobolds and the like.
So I edited Rasaad into the new Sun Soul kit, and he really steps it up now. I barely touched him originally since he's so universally considered to be weak, but with the new kit he seems a lot more useful now that he has some on-demand damage potential. I just cleared the Nashkel Mines with a new party, and his Sun Soulray can 1-shot basic skeletons in the Mulahey fight.
I'm really looking forward to when the party reaches BG2. Rasaad and my PC Dragon Disciple are going to be fire-buddies, between my PC's natural resistances and Rasaad's Sun Soul fireshield. I plan on a LOT of friendly fire with fireballs and breath weapons.
That seems bug-ish. I don't have an appropriate save file to test this myself, but does magic resistance protect against an actual dragon's breath, like Firkraag's? I didn't think it did...
That seems bug-ish. I don't have an appropriate save file to test this myself, but does magic resistance protect against an actual dragon's breath, like Firkraag's? I didn't think it did...
Agree with that.
Viconia always gets burned / wing buffet'd when we fought a dragon in BG2.
@Debaser the current description of the Dragon Disciple states that they "May only learn up to four spells per level". To me that pretty clearly means that the limit should be on how many spells they know per level, not on how many spells they can cast per level per day.
Agreed, definitely think this is what it's supposed to be.
Can Shadowkeeper fix this one for now, until a patch? And when a patch is released, will that fix existing characters, or should I just wait until it's released to play as one?
@Debaser the current description of the Dragon Disciple states that they "May only learn up to four spells per level". To me that pretty clearly means that the limit should be on how many spells they know per level, not on how many spells they can cast per level per day.
Agreed, definitely think this is what it's supposed to be.
Can Shadowkeeper fix this one for now, until a patch? And when a patch is released, will that fix existing characters, or should I just wait until it's released to play as one?
IMO, spells per day is working as intended. The kit discription is off.
@Debaser the current description of the Dragon Disciple states that they "May only learn up to four spells per level". To me that pretty clearly means that the limit should be on how many spells they know per level, not on how many spells they can cast per level per day.
Agreed, definitely think this is what it's supposed to be.
Can Shadowkeeper fix this one for now, until a patch? And when a patch is released, will that fix existing characters, or should I just wait until it's released to play as one?
IMO, spells per day is working as intended. The kit discription is off.
That would certainly be the more balanced version of the kit, though I'd prefer just getting one less spell learned, to be honest. Hopefully we will get official confirmation about which is right soon!
1 spell less x day would be fair, more would make the whole kit worthless. Let's examine the advantages of the Dragon Disciple:
- Constitution boost: You won't get any HP bonus after 16 Con, anyway. At 20 Con you start to slowly regenerate. It won't really affect your battles, but you will be able to heal in 8 hours instead of 16 when resting and you won't get so easily tired while traveling. Serious business here. PS: as soon as you get a ring or a ioun stone, this regen will be even more useless.
- AC boost: Doesn't really make any difference in the long run. You will always rely on Mirror Image -> Stonskin -> Protection from Magical Weapons.
- "OMG I'll drop fireballz and heal myself!!" thing: ALL the resistances are capped at 127, it means that a 10d6 (max dmg it can reach) Fireball will deal an average damage of 15 on a successful saving-throw. Healing the 27% of 15 means 4 HIT POINTS... Even if you fail the saving-throw and get 30 damage you will still heal less than a NORMAL healing potion, not to talk about the greater. The only serious advantage comes from an Incendiary Cloud, but we're talking about an high lvl spell.
Conclusion: what really makes this kit so cool is its concept (that I love too).
Comments
... odd.
Anyway, I was unable to dualclass into a Mage unless I had those three stats at 15 min (primary attribute for first class) and 17 int (primary attribute for second class). You need 15 in the primary stat(s) of your first class and 17 stat of your second class in order to dual-class.
So from those reasons above, I deduced that all three are the Shadowdancer's primary stats.
Also take note that Dragon Disciples can't have less than 10 Str, 14 Dex, 15 Cha, and 3 Int as opposed to the vanilla Sorceror's 3 Str, 3 Dex, 9 Cha, and 9 Int.
The Shadowdancer has too many bugs to enumerate. The Dragon Disciple doesn't match the kit description (less spells per day is a much worse penalty than less spells known). The Dark Moon monk doesn't get monk fist damage with touch attack spells, which is pretty much the whole point of that kit. Rashaad isn't a Sun Soul monk even though his whole story is about him being a Sun Soul monk and even though he is a rather underpowered NPC.
I would like to see a hotfix pretty soon so that the kits match the developers' intent.
I think you simply misinterpreted their intent with the Dragon Disciple.
I always read the Dragon Disciple as being less spells per day. I figured the trade was fine considering he'll be able to heal himself with fire in practically no time. (A wand of Fire later and he's gonna be a powerhouse)
The other bugs are solvable. I think the shorty bug with stats is the main issue. Honestly they're brand new kits, give it a month and they'll be square, Overhaul is doing a great job and the game play is getting better and better with each patch release. (Don't forget a lot of companies would have stopped patching by now no matter what the fanfare.)
I do agree however that they should change Rashaad to a Sun Soul Monk but with the new EE Shadowkeeper being released recently you can just change it yourself in two minutes.
I think properly requesting the changes you want on the forum is the way to go, they really do seem to listen.
I just meant that most things can be tweaked that way...the problem with Dwarf Stats for instance, etc.
Ahh maybe I misread it then!!!
Has anyone made any statements as to whether it's working as intended and the description was wrong, or that it's the other way 'round yet?
Also, friendly fire is definitely possible - ended up frying my CHARNAME while testing it out.
I'm really looking forward to when the party reaches BG2. Rasaad and my PC Dragon Disciple are going to be fire-buddies, between my PC's natural resistances and Rasaad's Sun Soul fireshield. I plan on a LOT of friendly fire with fireballs and breath weapons.
That seems bug-ish. I don't have an appropriate save file to test this myself, but does magic resistance protect against an actual dragon's breath, like Firkraag's? I didn't think it did...
Viconia always gets burned / wing buffet'd when we fought a dragon in BG2.
Can Shadowkeeper fix this one for now, until a patch? And when a patch is released, will that fix existing characters, or should I just wait until it's released to play as one?
Let's examine the advantages of the Dragon Disciple:
- Constitution boost:
You won't get any HP bonus after 16 Con, anyway.
At 20 Con you start to slowly regenerate. It won't really affect your battles, but you will be able to heal in 8 hours instead of 16 when resting and you won't get so easily tired while traveling.
Serious business here.
PS: as soon as you get a ring or a ioun stone, this regen will be even more useless.
- AC boost:
Doesn't really make any difference in the long run.
You will always rely on Mirror Image -> Stonskin -> Protection from Magical Weapons.
- "OMG I'll drop fireballz and heal myself!!" thing:
ALL the resistances are capped at 127, it means that a 10d6 (max dmg it can reach) Fireball will deal an average damage of 15 on a successful saving-throw.
Healing the 27% of 15 means 4 HIT POINTS...
Even if you fail the saving-throw and get 30 damage you will still heal less than a NORMAL healing potion, not to talk about the greater.
The only serious advantage comes from an Incendiary Cloud, but we're talking about an high lvl spell.
Conclusion: what really makes this kit so cool is its concept (that I love too).