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Ring of Human Influence

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
edited February 2013 in Archive (Feature Requests)
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  1. Ring of Human Influence127 votes
    1. The ring should add a couple of points to charisma instead of automatically setting it to 18
      49.61%
    2. Leave the Ring of Human Influence as it is
      40.16%
    3. Who needs charisma when you have a Miniature Giant Space Hamster!
      10.24%
Post edited by Cuv on
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Comments

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I used to play exclusively with the Item Revisions mod, which turns the Ring of Influence (and other ability-altering items) into a flat +2 (or +3, +4, etc.) bonus. I liked the way it worked.

    That said, I'm not sure I would change it. The item is available so early on that if it becomes obsolete later in the game I'm kind of okay with that.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    The item being available so early is THE BIG PROBLEM. It means any new BG2 char can just start with 3 CHA and never give a crap because you literally get the ring after 20 minutes of play. That means you won't have to worry about your CHA score *EVER*, effectively eliminating an entire stat completely. If the ring was available mid- or late-game, it would at least put a little more importance on the CHA score (undervalued as it is already).

    The best solution by far would be the aforementioned reduction of the bonus to a few points, similar to the cloak. That way you preserve an interesting item without completely bonking CHA as a whole.
  • nzdawghausnzdawghaus Member Posts: 8
    edited March 2017
    -meh-
    Post edited by nzdawghaus on
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    We're not talking about "every item" here, nor about "some sort of advantage"; the ring completely takes CHA out of the equation. It's already a very weak stat, given how few checks there are, and how usually only one single character (i.e. CHARNAME) actually needs it. Further exacerbating that problem only takes away more and more depth and complexity from the game, and leads to awkward decisions during character creation. Surely these are things that you would want to address, no?
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    edited February 2013
    I don't follow, @nzdawghaus. I was always under the impression that 4e cut back on magical items only because the characters are awesometastically megazordpowerful by default.

    I think any character that can afford to have CHA as a dump stat might be better off not permanently wasting a ring slot on the Ring of Human Influence. So I'd say that even if you do that, there's a price to pay.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    I think it would be good to scale it back, in order to make Charisma matter more. As it is a dwarf with 2 Charisma can be the most charismatic character in the game simply by wearing it, which seems wrong. Would make bards matter more too ;-)
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    We're not talking about "every item" here, nor about "some sort of advantage"; the ring completely takes CHA out of the equation.

    So do all the strength/dex/con/int/wis belts/gauntlets/spells/potions. i don't see the issue. who actually uses that ring anyway, compared to all the genuinely better rings that there are.

    charisma is useless, because BG only used it for a handful or reaction checks and for pricing, which is solved by having just one high Charisma NPC and if you have a High Rep (which even Evil chars can achieve) money never becomes an issue

    i would like to see Intelligence properly implemented before Charisma is
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Early in BG2, the RoHI can indeed be very helpful. Later, however, there are so many other useful rings to wear that I usually found it pretty advantageous to keep a high-CHA NPC in lead position, so that I didn't need to keep wearing the RoHI and could use that slot for some other ring. Therefore the advantages of the RoHI didn't seem excessive to me ... but maybe that's just a function of playing-style, perhaps it's excessively advantageous for some other players, I'm not sure.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    Another way to make it more balanced is adding some negative to the ring's affects. For example, making it a cursed item setting CHA to 18 but CON to 6. Something like "skinny cute guy (girl) with sunken eyes".
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    edited February 2013
    mjs said:

    Lord_Tansheron said:

    We're not talking about "every item" here, nor about "some sort of advantage"; the ring completely takes CHA out of the equation.

    So do all the strength/dex/con/int/wis belts/gauntlets/spells/potions. i don't see the issue. who actually uses that ring anyway, compared to all the genuinely better rings that there are.

    charisma is useless, because BG only used it for a handful or reaction checks and for pricing, which is solved by having just one high Charisma NPC and if you have a High Rep (which even Evil chars can achieve) money never becomes an issue

    i would like to see Intelligence properly implemented before Charisma is
    STR/DEX/CON items however are limited, and those are the three best stats that almost everyone wants to have very high. CHA on the other hand is only need on a single character, which is why having an item that raises it to 18 makes the sheet score completely irrelevant. Not to mention that you want to wear the STR/DEX/CON items a majority of the time, while you only swap in the RoHI for a few select dialogue encounters and when shopping.

    I agree that CHA is useless for any number of reasons, but that doesn't mean the RoHI shouldn't be changed.

    Also, while I agree that INT could use some polish as well, it's not the same as CHA; like STR/DEX/CON, you want it high on multiple characters. It already does something (spell learn chance and maximum spells known per level), and even has some combat importance (Maze spell, mind flayers).

    Still, other things being broken doesn't mean the ring isn't also. You are right that many things should be addressed; but this thread is about the ring, and that ring is one of those many things that need to be addressed, too.
  • ZeratulZeratul Member Posts: 575
    Leave the ring!!! I want have my charisma as a dump stats!
  • PeccaPecca Member Posts: 2,185
    Lord_Tansheron said:

    Still, other things being broken doesn't mean the ring isn't also. You are right that many things should be addressed; but this thread is about the ring, and that ring is one of those many things that need to be addressed, too.

    This certainly does *not* need to be addressed. I'd use again the old argument "just mod the damned thing that you don't like in the way you want", but that never seems to be a solution for people from nerfing initiatives. I hope that the nerfing lobby on this forum will never have enough power to change actual content of the game, and that changes will only involve bugfixes, as it is now.
  • WebShamanWebShaman Member Posts: 490
    The main problem with changing the RoHI to a "+" type item, is that it will become a boon to Sorcerer and Cha type characters, as it will advance the Cha score beyond 18...

    That would make it broken IMHO. Best to leave it as it is.
  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 377
    I think it helps balance things out if you have an item that only sets your score at something. Consider how many different ways you can actually increase your score. I think it is within the game's mechanics to actually get a 25 Charisma. It helps balance things to not make everything give a bonus instead of a static number.
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    I voted space hamster because I have mixed emotions about this - I do think that the ring is most useful to those who want to more or less abuse a dump stat and not have to suffer any consequences but for the most part I'm not usually on board with changing out items from the original just becuase someone thinks they coulda/woulda/shoulda been done differently.

    That said if it WAS to be changed I think it should offer a very significant + bonus ( maybe in the 4-6 range) in order to keep it's overall usefulness level in the same high range it currently has.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 486
    @WebShaman Cha doesn't give anything to Sorcerer. The benefit of charisma is exactly the same for all classes. Cheaper prices at shops and thats about it. Sorcerers, Bards, Paladins have 0 use for this stat beyond those cheaper prices.
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    Bhaaldog said:

    I eagerly await your next up date on the best of Baldur's Gate :)

    I am without my recording equipment, that's why it's taking so long, but it'll pop up sooner rather than later. Thanks a lot for the heads up, lady!
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    I believe that every attribute enhancing item should actually add extra points , instead of maxing it.

    However, I never use charisma as a dump stat. My protagonists are always charismatic ;D
  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    Having an 18 CHA from the start is the only way not to fudge my game right at Candlekeep. As soon as Hull says "took your sweet time didn't you?" I want to break his hungover lazy stupid face for being such an ungrateful bastard.
  • DrusycDrusyc Member Posts: 44
    edited February 2013
    Gotta love those reaction checks.

    I voted to give it a bonus but I think it's not quite the fix I would want for it. Rather, I would like for it to be a functionally useful ring at all times. It already has charm person, which is an okay ability but it's not enough to warrant using it all the time.

    This would change the ring altogether, but why not provide it with a single target Emotion:Hopelessness once per day as well? If it's the ring of Human *Influence*, you should be able to influence your target to do anything, like, die, rather than a petty charm that pretends to be useful but serves no real purpose.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Also characteristic enhancing magic items in 2ed boosted thier owners characteristics to a set level rather than adding a bonus. Why single out the ring of human influence, when all the strength and dex boosting items already do this?
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Why do you bother me with such inconsiquential questions?
  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    Hmmm, setting it to 18 or letting someone have around 21 charisma ,if it's +3 to an 18cha.

    I'll stick with set 18. Thanks.
  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    O and the argument that gets tossed around the most: if you don't like it, don't use it.
  • CuvCuv Member, Developer Posts: 2,535
    Moving this to Feature Requests since that seems to be the intent
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2013
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    Bhaaldog said:


    This was more for the purpose of promoting debate rather than something I personally would request, but you are free to interpret it as you wish :)

    Bhaaldog said:


    This was more for the purpose of promoting debate

    Bhaaldog said:


    purpose of promoting debate

    Bhaaldog said:


    promoting debate

    Bhaaldog said:


    debate

    One does not simply start a peaceful debate on the internet. xD

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,675
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