The ring should be at least cursed. Ok give the instant upgrade to 18 charisma, but if you want only to use the ring on specific situations, be ready to have a couple of remove curse spells.
This is one of the flaws in the game, no one that play bg for a while will fall in use an bad cursed item, at all maybe someone use the +3 berserker sword for some reason, or kiel's flais, but no one will equip the braces of binding or the fool ring by mistake (the cursed item skins should be random at least).
Some good items that are cursed also would give an sideback on their utility while would give utility to some neglected spells as remove curse.
something like "while a fantastic ring that make everyone like you, it infuse a sense of greed on the owner that if somehow he removes the ring, people will instantly start to hate him, making any attempt of removal of this item being answered with wild fury and great anger", or something like that.
I don't see a problem with it. Ring of Human influence and Gloves of dex are actually working like in PNP (they really do set the stats to 18 while worn, because in PnP having good stats is the exception, not the rule (though they're supposed to take 24 hours of being worn to start working, requiring another day of waiting if removed and re-worn). Meanwhile gauntlets of ogre strength should only give a plus +4 bonus to str (up to a maximum of 18/00 with one exception, 14 str would be 18 (18/51 for part-warriors), 15+ would 18/00), and there should only be a single kind of belt of giant strength, that sets strength to 20 (but specifically does NOT stack with GoOP or any other +str spells/items, unless a Hammer of thunderbolts is equipped, which allows BoG+GoOP to stack and reach 24 str).
And before you start bitching about how easily it's found....you have literally artifact quality weapons falling off of trees every 5 feet (not to mention the plethora of +2 and +3's you find with relative ease). Based on it's pricing, the Ring of Human Influence is actually perfectly acceptable treasure for the level you are at the beginning of BG2. You are NOT at the beginning of a game. You are Half-way through an epic Saga. The beginning is when you leave Candlekeep for the first time.
Making it worse for who? This is not a competitive game. Each of us is able to play the game the way we want. If on principle you think that using CHA as a dump stat negatively affects your game play, you can control that during your character creation. If the mere existence of the ring completely wrecks the game for you, you can mod it to suit you.
Would changing the ring to a +stat really change the behavior of those who dump CHA on CHARNAME anyway? Just give the +stat item to the NPC with the highest CHA score to get comparable results (like with the cloak in BG1).
I am mostly neutral on this topic, but lean toward not changing the item. In general I don't think items should be changed from their original state unless the item was not functioning as intended (one example of this could be the cloak in BG1 where the charm effect was changed from unlimited uses to 1 use/day).
I don´t need that ring, my CHARNAME have always 18 CHA. I play RP ( do you know what RPG mean, right ? ) so i don´t want look like sewer rat.
You can be surprise but on this forum are also people who want better game for all players, not only for themself.
Yes, I know what RPG means, thank you for checking. I don't think using the item automatically means that someone is not playing "RP". I do appreciate efforts to make this game better for all players, and that is the reason I pose the question. For whom does this change improve gameplay?
You mentioned yourself that you don't need the ring since you always make 18 CHA character, so changing the ring to a +stat actually makes this item MORE powerful for your character, rather than less powerful. Since you currently don't use it, its existence in the game is not affecting your gameplay.
I'm not saying the item is not powerful. I just don't advocate changing items from their original form for the sake of changing them or making them less powerful on the pretext that these items are somehow causing major gameplay or balance issues for most players. Especially in the context of a non-competitive game (primarily SP, but even in MP it is a cooperative game and not a competitive game).
Each player can make a choice to use or not use an item during the course of their game. Players can also determine what choices they make during character creation regarding their CHA stat. If someone wants to dump CHA and use the ring to make up for it, good for them. If another player wants to maximize their charisma or balance it out with their other stats or based on a character concept, great. In both cases the current ring statistics and its existence in the game are not negatively impacting their ability to enjoy playing it the way they want.
@SirK8 This is not about how powerful this item is. Charisma is simply dump stat. You need have only one guy with high CHA in group to get advantages. With that ring, you dont need anyone. It is like 18 CHA for whole group.
You can be surprise but on this forum are also people who want better game for all players, not only for themself.
You can *never* make a better game for *all* players. There are so many players who want so many different things and this is a perfect example of it. Therefore, self-customizationis perfectly viable option here. Like @SirK8 said, the ring doesn't prevent anyone to play the game the way they like, and everyone is free to customize the containt of the game the way they like. I absolutely don't understand this drive to make the game "better" for *all* players. You never will. However you can make easily make the game better just for you. And let everyone else do the same.
And now we're back here again.....even in PnP, you only need one Face character (usually bard or rogue, since they aren't much use for anything else aside from occasional utility and social interactions, heck all the social NCP are in the rogue pool and cost extra for other characters to take anyway).
If it bothers you, then STOP MIN-MAXING YOUR STATS! This game isn't made for it, and it shows. Otherwise stop complaining and just get a mod that fixes it and greatly ups the difficulty to compensate for your grossly overpowered character.
At the same time, it also doesn't matter. In BG2, there are no quest rewards based on charisma. The only benefit is better prices and slows the rate at which party conflicts occur, most of which I just ignore regardless, since there's WAAAY to much money in this game to ever spend it all unless you go out of your way to try and waste it and if my party mates wanna murder each other, go right ahead, I can finish this quest all on my own if need be.
Why not gripe to nerf str increasing items? Their very existence (several right at the beginning of the game no less, 2 very easily acquired to boot) make str as much a dump stat as charisma, to low as your class mins will allow (unless you plan to dual, and even then you only need 15). With a cap preventing them from increasing abilities above 18/00 or 20, regardless of the order you buff. Dex less so, since there's only 1 such item, same with Con, but str get enough for the whole party plus about 3 to spare by the end of the game, most of which are acquired fairly early in SoA.
Those items exist for people who have character with less then ideal stats (closer to what a typical PnP party would have, with a strict DM). If you don't like it, don't use it. If you want to use it anyway, don't complain, cause no one was standing there with a gun to your head MAKING you use it.
@Pecca Yes i can, it´s easy. More happy players = Better game As you can see on front page people like me are in majority. " This item just don´t fit to this game "
If you don't like it, don't use it. If you want to use it anyway, don't complain, cause no one was standing there with a gun to your head MAKING you use it.
Sure lets put few +20 weapons to ours inventory from start. If you don't like it, don't use it. If you like it, use it, right ? This stance is wrong !
@Edvin I'm not sure I understand your point, because to me it doesn't make sense. Suppose for the moment that the result of the poll reflects opinions of all the players. Do you say you believe that if 51% of players think this should be changed, then it is better for *all* players? What about those 38% who don't think so? Imagine you are on the other side of the barricade and you prefer that the ring should be left alone. How does then changing it make the game better for you?
And so is yours. It's a legitimate item, with a legitimate effect, acquired at a legitimate level, after a legitimate challenge (for a non-mix/maxed party), that has been in the game where it has always been FOR OVER A DECADE.
@ZanathKariashi This is your defence ? " Old things must be flawless ! "
Any game isn´t flawless even legends like Planescape Torment, Fallout or Arcanum. All games have their mistakes. Only BG:EE have over 400 improvements to the original game. Whole this ring is simply mistake and must be repair or remove.
This discussion already start to be exhausting. Read first 3 posts from @Lord_Tansheron on page one. He smart guy ( with MUCH better english then i ) and i 110% agree with his opinions.
No, things that follow the rules of the setting upon which the game is based, and does so perfectly, are flawless. And thus the ring is just fine as it is, since it does what it's supposed to, and is acquired as loot from the proper difficulty of enemy by characters at the proper level. If you want to change it, use one of the mods that already does so and take your meta-game, min/max garbage with you.
It only matters to you, because you know it's there (Pure and simple meta-gaming, don't EVER call yourself a roleplayer if you're going to make an argument for a change to a perfectly legitimate item based on THAT!). A player who doesn't know about it and hasn't read a guide is likely going to have a hard time with circus due to a lack of proper weapons spread about, and upon getting said ring is going to say, awesome!!!! Because their stats are likely not that good (how I wish I could go back and be a noob at this game and experience it for the first time all over again) and after a gruelling battle it feels like a great reward.
You want an example of things that should be changed? That are legitimately wrong and broken? R/C spellcasting, Bard song, Rogue dual-wielding specialization (or rather the lack thereof), Mislead, and Project Image, all wrongly implemented and the last two are so utterly broken I refuse to even use them since they can't be used at all they way they're supposed to work (With R/C you can at least choose NOT use the spells they aren't supposed to have in the first place, and the DWing thing can be fixed in shadow keeper at least)
And that's not even touching on how wrongly overpowered a lot of kit abilities are, the issues with Grandmastery/specialization in general, proper specialist mage benefits/penalties, etc etc....there are just WAY too many things that are legitimately wrong or over powered, no one should be TOUCHING anything that is working as intended by the settings rules.
None of which will ever get fixed, because power-gamers don't want their precious broken abilities getting CORRECTED, and instead complain about other things that aren't OP enough for their tastes (and yes, turning the ring into a +cha is power-gamer buff, since it now stacks with the cha tome and machine allowing them to not be wasted like they would with the ring as is...it's part of the whole min/max thing).
I like the "make it cursed" idea. This would solve my concern that the ring can be put on for buying and selling without impacting magical equipment slots at other times.
There's your major flaw. You're trying to get this game as close to PnP as possible. Which is impossible. You will never have Cha be a good stat in vanilla BG or BG:EE. Still waiting on that portrait resized too from page 2.
Actually I'm the one wanting the game closer to PnP.
Charisma is just as much a dump stat (and I use that term lightly, since all but the most lenient DMs will be strict about how you roll your stats (2nd isn't really made for min/maxed characters...and neither is BG for that matter)) in PnP as it is in BG (most social adventures are generally handled Ad hoc since the characters are more then likely going to have effectively useless charisma (anything less then 15 has so little effect it might not exist, until you start getting followers...and even then...9+ still gives you a small army (class depending of course)) unless one has that ring). The only difference is, depending on how strict your DM is, you probably are going to end up with stats that make Jan's look Godly, rather then being able to min/max, as munchkins are want to do. Thieves and bards are the only classes in PnP that can meaningfully say to be specialized in social interaction (Bards being better obviously, but due to the way creating characters works in PnP, it's rare you'll get to make one), and that ring goes a long way towards turning that thief into an effective diplomat (more so, if they spent some points in social based NCP)
Lately I've taken to building my characters like playing a PnP game which usually entails just rolling once and accepting the stats as they are. After all, those items that set stats exist purely to help characters with less then ideal stats in first place.
His changes like most other suggestions are to break the game even further by trying to remove yet another perfectly working element and replacing it with min/max garbage.
Did you ever notice, it's the things that are working correctly that always get calls for being changed, and the things that are utterly broken defended in droves?
And no, 2nd edition, by the letter of core books, could be FULLY implemented in it's entirety into the game (it WOULD be a lot of work though, I do agree). The infinity engine has some limitation, but the majority of the rules could still be implemented...basically just avoiding the ones involving jumping, climbing, swimming, or flight. Everything else could be legit, if the engine coding was opened up more. While I wouldn't mind the game being transitioned to full turned based, the game already effectively uses the personal initiative optional rule so that wouldn't really need to be changed.
I just read the excellent idea from @mjs Lets combine girdle of masculinity/femininity with ring of human influence ! Curse item what changes your gender, but set your charisma to 18 !
Comments
This is one of the flaws in the game, no one that play bg for a while will fall in use an bad cursed item, at all maybe someone use the +3 berserker sword for some reason, or kiel's flais, but no one will equip the braces of binding or the fool ring by mistake (the cursed item skins should be random at least).
Some good items that are cursed also would give an sideback on their utility while would give utility to some neglected spells as remove curse.
something like "while a fantastic ring that make everyone like you, it infuse a sense of greed on the owner that if somehow he removes the ring, people will instantly start to hate him, making any attempt of removal of this item being answered with wild fury and great anger", or something like that.
And before you start bitching about how easily it's found....you have literally artifact quality weapons falling off of trees every 5 feet (not to mention the plethora of +2 and +3's you find with relative ease). Based on it's pricing, the Ring of Human Influence is actually perfectly acceptable treasure for the level you are at the beginning of BG2. You are NOT at the beginning of a game. You are Half-way through an epic Saga. The beginning is when you leave Candlekeep for the first time.
In PnP is charisma very important stat.
In BG is charisma dump stat.
Try play BG with 3 str or with 3 dex. BIG disadvantage.
Then try it with 3 charisma. No disadvantages.
Charisma is nearly useless in BG and this stupid ring making it even worse.
Would changing the ring to a +stat really change the behavior of those who dump CHA on CHARNAME anyway? Just give the +stat item to the NPC with the highest CHA score to get comparable results (like with the cloak in BG1).
I am mostly neutral on this topic, but lean toward not changing the item. In general I don't think items should be changed from their original state unless the item was not functioning as intended (one example of this could be the cloak in BG1 where the charm effect was changed from unlimited uses to 1 use/day).
I play RP ( do you know what RPG mean, right ? ) so i don´t want look like sewer rat.
You can be surprise but on this forum are also people who want better game for all players, not only for themself.
You mentioned yourself that you don't need the ring since you always make 18 CHA character, so changing the ring to a +stat actually makes this item MORE powerful for your character, rather than less powerful. Since you currently don't use it, its existence in the game is not affecting your gameplay.
I'm not saying the item is not powerful. I just don't advocate changing items from their original form for the sake of changing them or making them less powerful on the pretext that these items are somehow causing major gameplay or balance issues for most players. Especially in the context of a non-competitive game (primarily SP, but even in MP it is a cooperative game and not a competitive game).
Each player can make a choice to use or not use an item during the course of their game. Players can also determine what choices they make during character creation regarding their CHA stat. If someone wants to dump CHA and use the ring to make up for it, good for them. If another player wants to maximize their charisma or balance it out with their other stats or based on a character concept, great. In both cases the current ring statistics and its existence in the game are not negatively impacting their ability to enjoy playing it the way they want.
This is not about how powerful this item is. Charisma is simply dump stat.
You need have only one guy with high CHA in group to get advantages.
With that ring, you dont need anyone. It is like 18 CHA for whole group.
If it bothers you, then STOP MIN-MAXING YOUR STATS! This game isn't made for it, and it shows. Otherwise stop complaining and just get a mod that fixes it and greatly ups the difficulty to compensate for your grossly overpowered character.
At the same time, it also doesn't matter. In BG2, there are no quest rewards based on charisma. The only benefit is better prices and slows the rate at which party conflicts occur, most of which I just ignore regardless, since there's WAAAY to much money in this game to ever spend it all unless you go out of your way to try and waste it and if my party mates wanna murder each other, go right ahead, I can finish this quest all on my own if need be.
Why not gripe to nerf str increasing items? Their very existence (several right at the beginning of the game no less, 2 very easily acquired to boot) make str as much a dump stat as charisma, to low as your class mins will allow (unless you plan to dual, and even then you only need 15). With a cap preventing them from increasing abilities above 18/00 or 20, regardless of the order you buff. Dex less so, since there's only 1 such item, same with Con, but str get enough for the whole party plus about 3 to spare by the end of the game, most of which are acquired fairly early in SoA.
Those items exist for people who have character with less then ideal stats (closer to what a typical PnP party would have, with a strict DM). If you don't like it, don't use it. If you want to use it anyway, don't complain, cause no one was standing there with a gun to your head MAKING you use it.
Yes i can, it´s easy.
More happy players = Better game
As you can see on front page people like me are in majority.
" This item just don´t fit to this game "
If you don't like it, don't use it. If you like it, use it, right ?
This stance is wrong !
I'm not sure I understand your point, because to me it doesn't make sense. Suppose for the moment that the result of the poll reflects opinions of all the players. Do you say you believe that if 51% of players think this should be changed, then it is better for *all* players? What about those 38% who don't think so? Imagine you are on the other side of the barricade and you prefer that the ring should be left alone. How does then changing it make the game better for you?
Majority belief is ( unfortunately ) always better then other options.
It is stupid but that's how democracy work.
That's not how democracy works, that's actually how dictatorship works.
This is your defence ?
" Old things must be flawless ! "
Any game isn´t flawless even legends like Planescape Torment, Fallout or Arcanum. All games have their mistakes. Only BG:EE have over 400 improvements to the original game. Whole this ring is simply mistake and must be repair or remove.
Differences are nearly imperceptible :-(
Read first 3 posts from @Lord_Tansheron on page one.
He smart guy ( with MUCH better english then i ) and i 110% agree with his opinions.
It only matters to you, because you know it's there (Pure and simple meta-gaming, don't EVER call yourself a roleplayer if you're going to make an argument for a change to a perfectly legitimate item based on THAT!). A player who doesn't know about it and hasn't read a guide is likely going to have a hard time with circus due to a lack of proper weapons spread about, and upon getting said ring is going to say, awesome!!!! Because their stats are likely not that good (how I wish I could go back and be a noob at this game and experience it for the first time all over again) and after a gruelling battle it feels like a great reward.
You want an example of things that should be changed? That are legitimately wrong and broken? R/C spellcasting, Bard song, Rogue dual-wielding specialization (or rather the lack thereof), Mislead, and Project Image, all wrongly implemented and the last two are so utterly broken I refuse to even use them since they can't be used at all they way they're supposed to work (With R/C you can at least choose NOT use the spells they aren't supposed to have in the first place, and the DWing thing can be fixed in shadow keeper at least)
And that's not even touching on how wrongly overpowered a lot of kit abilities are, the issues with Grandmastery/specialization in general, proper specialist mage benefits/penalties, etc etc....there are just WAY too many things that are legitimately wrong or over powered, no one should be TOUCHING anything that is working as intended by the settings rules.
None of which will ever get fixed, because power-gamers don't want their precious broken abilities getting CORRECTED, and instead complain about other things that aren't OP enough for their tastes (and yes, turning the ring into a +cha is power-gamer buff, since it now stacks with the cha tome and machine allowing them to not be wasted like they would with the ring as is...it's part of the whole min/max thing).
There's your major flaw. You're trying to get this game as close to PnP as possible. Which is impossible. You will never have Cha be a good stat in vanilla BG or BG:EE. Still waiting on that portrait resized too from page 2.
Charisma is just as much a dump stat (and I use that term lightly, since all but the most lenient DMs will be strict about how you roll your stats (2nd isn't really made for min/maxed characters...and neither is BG for that matter)) in PnP as it is in BG (most social adventures are generally handled Ad hoc since the characters are more then likely going to have effectively useless charisma (anything less then 15 has so little effect it might not exist, until you start getting followers...and even then...9+ still gives you a small army (class depending of course)) unless one has that ring). The only difference is, depending on how strict your DM is, you probably are going to end up with stats that make Jan's look Godly, rather then being able to min/max, as munchkins are want to do. Thieves and bards are the only classes in PnP that can meaningfully say to be specialized in social interaction (Bards being better obviously, but due to the way creating characters works in PnP, it's rare you'll get to make one), and that ring goes a long way towards turning that thief into an effective diplomat (more so, if they spent some points in social based NCP)
Lately I've taken to building my characters like playing a PnP game which usually entails just rolling once and accepting the stats as they are. After all, those items that set stats exist purely to help characters with less then ideal stats in first place.
His changes like most other suggestions are to break the game even further by trying to remove yet another perfectly working element and replacing it with min/max garbage.
Did you ever notice, it's the things that are working correctly that always get calls for being changed, and the things that are utterly broken defended in droves?
And no, 2nd edition, by the letter of core books, could be FULLY implemented in it's entirety into the game (it WOULD be a lot of work though, I do agree). The infinity engine has some limitation, but the majority of the rules could still be implemented...basically just avoiding the ones involving jumping, climbing, swimming, or flight. Everything else could be legit, if the engine coding was opened up more. While I wouldn't mind the game being transitioned to full turned based, the game already effectively uses the personal initiative optional rule so that wouldn't really need to be changed.
Lets combine girdle of masculinity/femininity with ring of human influence !
Curse item what changes your gender, but set your charisma to 18 !