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Create a random game (optional no-reload speed game contest included) (spoilers)

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  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,288
    edited April 2013

    any tips on effective use of rasaad when i get him? stinks that he should be a member of my party :( also, no mages makes this a difficult one. luckily i got myself as a thief or i would be without a mage or a thief

    In a no reload game I would keep Rasaad well out of harm's way by having him hurl darts (my preference) or using a sling at least until he reaches level 6.

    Elven pure class Thief (2 re-rolls: 18,19,17,10,7,11)
    Jaheira
    Khalid
    Viconia
    Rasaad
    Eldoth

    actually looks fairly workable. If you put Viconia in ankheg armor and place her on the front line with Jaheira and Khalid, that's really pretty strong. (Viconia won't get hit much at AC -6.) I'd have Viconia using Command and Hold as much as possible.

    You've got no arcane spellcasting early on. But once you get Eldoth (if you make it that far) have him go all out with wands and spell scrolls.

    And as you point out you have a Thief! (With great stats too.)

    Myself, no way would I attempt a no-reload game (especially using these rules!) with SCS! There's just too many ways to die even in a vanilla game!

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    This may help for everyone who rolled Minsc: He seems to not go berzerk in Nashkel anymore if you kill her before talking to him. I usually recruit Edwin, kill Dynaheir, complete Oublek's quests and then charm him to attack Minsc. Since the patch, he hasn't been berzerking a single time. And he is recruitable, even with Edwin in the party. He'll say he failed his witch and travels with you to find redemption. It's no specific interaction with Edwin, so I assume the same works without him. Just go to the Stronghold and kill her first. If metagaming is fine, you don't need to talk to Minsc to get the location on the map.

    Lemernis
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,288
    edited April 2013
    If Minsc gets killed by the party after his flip-out can he be raised? Or is he at that point no longer a party member? (i.e., when he goes into his Berserker rage he becomes hostile and the party is auto-reformed to remove him?)

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,288
    Who here is good enough with math to say what formula should be for the ratio of days: chapter for speed games that aren't completed (i.e., PC dies)?

    If you make it a fraction such as

    chapter number divided by number of days

    then you can get something like, say,

    5 chapters divided by 125 days = 0.04

    But... is that truly not as good a score as, say,

    3 chapter divided by 92 days = 0.0326?

    In some way both the number of chapters and number of days should factor in, I would think...

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    What I do is... Turn both quests in to Oublek. Charm Oublek, then order him to attack Minsc (who I didn't talk to at all). Minsc kills him, then the guards kill Minsc. You then can get the gold Oublek has (around 2K+), the 2 Prism gems (worth 1500 gold) and Brage's body (250 gold in temple). Minsc was never in the party in this scenario, so he can't be raised.
    Before the (latest?) patch, he would sometimes be berzerking when I returned from the Stronghold, and usually be killed by guards before I reached him. There were just text messages saying "Minsc attacks Flaming Fist - damage rolls" and so on. He was hostile/red, same as when charmed Oublek attacks him.

    This no longer happens (as far as I can tell - I do the Oublek charm every run), he'll just stand there waiting and will join you if you talk to him.

    If you take both Minsc and Edwin to the Stronghold and tell them to fight it out, both will be removed from the party. Without Minsc, you can just recruit Dynaheir and Edwin walks away. I *think* Minsc would attack him at that point, and neither would be a party member, so you could not raise him later. My memory of this is vague, but I think it works like other scripted fights and everyone will auto-leave the party when the fight starts. You can recruit the survivor, which - in Edwin vs Minsc - is usually Minsc (unless you have a full party and manage to Command Minsc or otherwise give Edwin the time to cast. I had Xzar survive the Harpers/Zhent fight because he had several Larloch's memorized with Evermemory and healed himself fully with each attack).

    EudaemoniumLemernis
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Lemernis said:

    Who here is good enough with math to say what formula should be for the ratio of days: chapter for speed games that aren't completed (i.e., PC dies)?

    If you make it a fraction such as

    chapter number divided by number of days

    then you can get something like, say,

    5 chapters divided by 125 days = 0.04

    But... is that truly not as good a score as, say,

    3 chapter divided by 92 days = 0.0326?

    In some way both the number of chapters and number of days should factor in, I would think...

    Well, first you need to think about how you want to scoring function to behave. I for one think it should emphasize progress rather than speed, i.e. chapter 5 in 125 days is better than chapter 3 in 92 days, simply because IMO a dude who dies in chapter 3 while others make it to chapter 5 shouldn't be eligible for winning the challenge.

    This is why I suggest this

    f(x,y) = x^2/y, where x = chapter*, y = game days.

    *
    x = {0, if prologue
    1 if chapter one
    2 if chapter two
    ...
    7 if chapter seven
    8 if you beat the game}

    It could further be normalized by let's say... game finished in 20 days
    -> 8^2/20= 3.2
    -> f(x,y) = x^2/(3.2*y)

    This scaling factor can of course be altered if 20 days is too ambitious LOL.

    Now it's a percentage score, f.ex.

    Game finished in 25 days: score f(8, 25) = 8^2/(3.2*25) = 80 %

    Chapter 5 in 125 days: score f(5, 125) = 5^2/(3.2*125) = 6.3 %

    Chapter 3 92 days: score = 3.1 %

    Chapter 5 in 20 days = 39 %

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    BTW since you now have my failed attempt of chapter one, 28 days we could use the top score as the normalizing factor. This way the leader always has 100% score and the rest trail behind. That might be more clear.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    and so it comes to an end... we defeated mulahey and went through the map outside of the mines. things went smoothly there, except khalid was killed by revenant. we returned to nashkel to resurrect him, and we met nimbul. viconia began to cast silence, but i did not expect nimbul to run up in pursuit of charname. he was quickly out of spell range. i had charname go around to get nimbul to attack a different target, but he was quite stubborn. Then, he cast sleep, catching everyone but viccy and I. After charname was slowed from running, it was game over :( i tried again a second time, knowing nimbul would rush, and he was defeated. Well, that kinda sucks!

    Lemernis
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    So you got to chapter 3 already... How many days in?

  • dstoltzfusdstoltzfus Member Posts: 280
    edited April 2013
    @Lemernis: that's what I'm wondering. I misplayed the situation, I believe. I had Monty chunk her without my party members looking (since Dynaheir isn't supposed to be in my party). I should have just accepted her in my party and then had her wander off with Monteron (as I did with Jaheira), and get whomever I kicked back (this wouldn't have been such an issue if I didn't already have my full party).

    Ah well, I suppose Minsc will leave after the mines and Greywolf, maybe (assuming I still live). I'll just 5 man it. Thankfully, Kahlid and Monteron make good front-liners.

    EDIT: punctuation.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781

    So you got to chapter 3 already... How many days in?

    it was 17 days and 15 hours in

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    Lemernis said:

    any tips on effective use of rasaad when i get him? stinks that he should be a member of my party :( also, no mages makes this a difficult one. luckily i got myself as a thief or i would be without a mage or a thief

    In a no reload game I would keep Rasaad well out of harm's way by having him hurl darts (my preference) or using a sling at least until he reaches level 6.

    Elven pure class Thief (2 re-rolls: 18,19,17,10,7,11)
    Jaheira
    Khalid
    Viconia
    Rasaad
    Eldoth

    actually looks fairly workable. If you put Viconia in ankheg armor and place her on the front line with Jaheira and Khalid, that's really pretty strong. (Viconia won't get hit much at AC -6.) I'd have Viconia using Command and Hold as much as possible.

    You've got no arcane spellcasting early on. But once you get Eldoth (if you make it that far) have him go all out with wands and spell scrolls.

    And as you point out you have a Thief! (With great stats too.)

    Myself, no way would I attempt a no-reload game (especially using these rules!) with SCS! There's just too many ways to die even in a vanilla game!
    i got no notification here. anyway, yeah i had rasaad use a sling to keep him out of harms way. i actually had everybody but khalid with a range, while khalid went sword and shield pretty efficently. he never even had a morale failure! i think i need to also look up the ankheg armor. i am fairly new to this game, okay! i don't know where the hidden stuff are :)

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    edited April 2013
    viconia, minsc, edwin, khalid, imoen, inquisitor pc

    male, human, inquisitor, automatically lawful good, 0 rerolls, not worried about voice
    got a good roll right away! 87 points
    18/63,18,11,10,13,17

    i have edwin as well as imoen capable of being my mages. minsc and i could make good front liners with viconia just in case, and have imoen and khalid shooting bows while edwin will always be a mage. will focus on getting imoen good find traps and open locks before dueling.

    didnt use name generator. as always with me, since he is a male he will share my name, Brandon. Well, cya guys later after I potentially die! :)

    edit: will put this on hold for a little. i just thought up something else i want to try instead. saved game to play later.

    Post edited by ChildofBhaal599 on
    Lemernis
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    btw, i am glad i did this. having been forced to have rasaad with me, i was finally able to listen to a bit of his story. i think i will grab him in my current role play game, but i am not sure who i will replace :(

    dstoltzfusLemernis
  • dstoltzfusdstoltzfus Member Posts: 280
    Well...Mulahey threw down a hold and I was killed by skeletons and kobalds. So ends the blade Tartalo's adventure.

  • dstoltzfusdstoltzfus Member Posts: 280
    edited April 2013
    My last one was like 11 or 12 days. Just rolled a new one:

    7311 4029
    Female, Elf, Fighter, Lawful Neutral, 0 Rerolls, Female6 voice

    Gracehana Moonshadow

    10 Faldorn
    5 Coran
    11 Garrick
    15 Khalid
    7 Dynaheir

    (I switched the voice)

    I received a generous 88 on the first roll :) : 18/81, 19, 16, 10, 12, 13. I'm going for front-line damage dealer, since Khalid can tank. 2 pips in longswords, 1 in longbow, 1 in two-weapon style.

    A well rounded party, except no thief until Coran (should I make it that far). I think that I will do some exploring before the mines this next try. A four man party should level much quicker.

    EDIT: I'll be RP'ing too, so no house looting with charname.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    edited April 2013
    37 days in, though i messed up a bit and ended up going back to places and such. i started with the usual power game head straight to the basilisk area, as i did with my thief. it was only me and imoen with corax. we left at level 4 and picked up the npcs at this point. i have just complete the bandit camp. i've had two battles worry me, the assassins outside the mine and some black talons, but nobody has ever been chunked so i am able to rez. i had to go back to kill dynaheir because i booted her out of sight the first time but edwin started complaining. the inquisitor dispel magic really does come handy, and being immune to charm i could use him to tank the sirine map. he hasn't really gotten good hp increases though, and imoen even had greater hp than him. right now i am thinking about if i should dual imoen to a mage. she is a level 6 thief with all i could need a thief for, but it is risky to turn her into deadweight until mage 7. suggestions?

    will continue tomorrow to cloackwood. if i dual immy i would probably first go to the sirine map. considering she would already be usless she could also be my kiss sacrifice! :)

    Lemernis
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,288
    edited April 2013
    Blackguard
    Imoen (will dual to mage at Thief 2)
    Monty
    Kagain
    Ajantis
    next Minsc

    Because the iPad UI is a little trickier to manage (for me anyway), tactics-wise I'm going super cautious in my game, scouting and avoiding fights until I complete my party with Minsc. Although I will take out the hobgoblins with the Boots of Stealth and get the potions in their cave. The orgillons on the road should pose little problem as well.

    Plan:

    I'll do Minsc's quest right away. With four strong frontliners the gnoll stronghold should be a cakewalk. Then I don't have to worry about Minsc going bonkers, plus I'll pick up the Gauntlets of Dex for my PC.

    Next I'll do the bassilisk map, first dispatching the ones to the south to get Imoen leveled to Thief 2 and dualed to Mage. Then with Imoen able to cast Blindness I figure it should easier to take out Mutamin.

    I need to get Resist Fear for Imoen from High Hedge. Bassilus next? I might pass for the time being, I'll see. My hope is that the trusty Blindness spell will make him easy pickins for ranged weapons.

    Then on to the Nashkel mines. I guess at that point I can use the Web scroll in Mulahey's chest to take care of the amazon assassins outside the mine exit; hopefully Charm one to draw the others' fire and pick off the others off with ranged weapons.

    I think Nimbul too should not be so tough if Blinded. And since metagaming is all good here I'll have Monty at the ready to backstab him as well.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,288
    edited April 2013

    Lemernis said:

    Who here is good enough with math to say what formula should be for the ratio of days: chapter for speed games that aren't completed (i.e., PC dies)?

    If you make it a fraction such as

    chapter number divided by number of days

    then you can get something like, say,

    5 chapters divided by 125 days = 0.04

    But... is that truly not as good a score as, say,

    3 chapter divided by 92 days = 0.0326?

    In some way both the number of chapters and number of days should factor in, I would think...

    Well, first you need to think about how you want to scoring function to behave. I for one think it should emphasize progress rather than speed, i.e. chapter 5 in 125 days is better than chapter 3 in 92 days, simply because IMO a dude who dies in chapter 3 while others make it to chapter 5 shouldn't be eligible for winning the challenge.

    This is why I suggest this

    f(x,y) = x^2/y, where x = chapter*, y = game days.

    *
    x = {0, if prologue
    1 if chapter one
    2 if chapter two
    ...
    7 if chapter seven
    8 if you beat the game}

    It could further be normalized by let's say... game finished in 20 days
    -> 8^2/20= 3.2
    -> f(x,y) = x^2/(3.2*y)

    This scaling factor can of course be altered if 20 days is too ambitious LOL.

    Now it's a percentage score, f.ex.

    Game finished in 25 days: score f(8, 25) = 8^2/(3.2*25) = 80 %

    Chapter 5 in 125 days: score f(5, 125) = 5^2/(3.2*125) = 6.3 %

    Chapter 3 92 days: score = 3.1 %

    Chapter 5 in 20 days = 39 %
    Lol, first off thank you! and secondly, that formula is soooo over my head! :D

    I think it might be simplest if the emphasis remains on how fast one gets it done. For a completed game we're looking at who does it the fastest. So likewise, I think the same principle should apply to whoever gets farthest if no one can actually complete the game (that is, whoever then does that in the fastest time).

    But we are measuring two things, though, it's true. Progress, yes, but also the speed in which that progress was accomplished...

    Maybe we should keep it simple as the highest chapter number is our first measure: a higher chapter number outranks a lower one, regardless of number of days it took. Then if multiple players got to the same chapter when the PC died, the lowest number of days is leader.

    Sound reasonable to everyone?

    Wanderon
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    That'd be simplest indeed, I just thought that'd work if you wanted to plug everything into a simple formula. Then again, it's not like there's so much data in this challenge that you'd need to use Excel or something, LOL. Just a couple of players - should be easy enough to just manually evaluate the leaderboards and not mess with mathematics. Yeah, sounds reasonable to me :D

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Ok here's my best of three for a shot at the speed game:

    Therella the Punisher - F Half-elf - Stalker - TN changed to NG -
    18/86 - 18 - 18 - 10 - 14 - 13
    Longsword **, Longbow **

    Imoen
    Safana
    Eldoth
    Faldorn
    Yeslick

    What mod is it that moves late game NPCs to early game areas (and is it compatible with BGEE)?

    I'm thinking it's going to be tough to get a ranger & 2 thieves to chap 4 alone but we shall see...

    Lemernis
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,288
    edited April 2013
    SCS (see sticky in Modding forum) has that component. But then where does one draw the line with adding mods...

    Maybe for the purposes of the competition we should stick to vanilla? If more than 2 NPCs (3 NPCs?) aren't available until chapter 4 or 5 you can re-roll?

    Edit: I guess if three or more aren't available until chapter 4 or 5 that feels like about the right cut-off. Optional then to roll again. Although as noted by @ChildofBhaal599, some may not mind working with just three NPCs.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    well, late npcs mean you will solo for a while, but you will gain exp faster so if you survive long enough they will be higher level. we probably won't hit the exp cap worrying about speed and nobody dying. that is why i went to the basilisks with only imoen and i.

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    edited April 2013
    Lemernis said:

    SCS (see sticky in Modding forum) has that component. But then where does one draw the line with adding mods...

    Maybe for the purposes of the competition we should stick to vanilla? If more than 2 NPCs (3 NPCs?) aren't available until chapter 4 or 5 you can re-roll?

    Vanilla is fine with me - I'm not really into mods anyway - when you say reroll are you thinking scrap the original 5 and start over rerolling all of them or just rerolling the late ones and/or just rerolling the late ones until you have less than 3 not available until chap 4 and later - or your choice of any of the above LOL.

    In the spirit of randomness I think perhaps rerolling all 5 would be the most random option but it doesn't really matter to me.

    well, late npcs mean you will solo for a while, but you will gain exp faster so if you survive long enough they will be higher level. we probably won't hit the exp cap worrying about speed and nobody dying. that is why i went to the basilisks with only imoen and i.

    I agree in fact having the option to choose how many you have in the party at any given time can be a pretty powerful option to use in order to offset some of the penalty involved in being restricted to a certain 5 choices.

    I would also be in favor of not allowing game engine exploits sometimes used for speed games - particularly the ones that allow you to get to areas before you should be able to normally.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,288
    We're just making it up as we go along here, but I would agree that it'd probably work best if you have the option to reroll all 5 if you get... let's say, 3 NPCs that aren't available until chapters 4 or 5. I mean, it's a difficult enough challenge to begin with. But then to be gimped by having only 3 party members until you make it to Cloakwood (or in some cases BG city) could be just too tough in a no-reload game.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    i agree that engine exploits should be prohibited, but there is no way that we can know if somebody used them or not. it is all about honor, so hopefully people have some honor to not use such exploits.

    day 43: so far today i sent my party to the areas with the sirines. my inquisitor tanks so that nobody would be charmed. outside the flesh golem cave, one of them actually charmed minsc instead. luckily he had a bow in the middle of my group and so he just missed a lot. is it supposed to miss often at melee range? it always feels like it. anyway, he ended up attacked a summoned skeleton so it wasn't too bad. got the constitution manuel and gave it to minsc because with my pitiful con i wouldn't have gained anything. heading to ankhegs then cloakwood.

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Well I'm afraid I may have to abandon my first run and start again - dualed Immy to mage at thief 3 and went to grab Safana but she's looking for a strong man and she wont offer the opportunity to recruit her to a two women party - now I have something to post in the "what newest thing you learned about BG" thread LOL.

    If I decide to stick with this character - I have a save just after Gorions death - any objections to me rerolling my NPC choices so that no more than 2 aren't available until late and then restarting this character from that save (to allow me to avoid doing Candlekeep again with this same character)?

    Also when it comes to NPCs that are not on your party list - are you going to allow people to pick them up long enough to relieve them of any posessions they may wish to donate to our cause and then immediately remove them or will you have to kill them if you want to get their gear?

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I'd say you have to allow certain NPCs in order to get others (Skie can't be recruited without Eldoth). You could restrict it to a certain number of days - i.e. may have Eldoth for 3 days in order to get Skie.

  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    Well apparently I didn't do a save after Gorions death this time so I'll have to use the first save at the very start. I re-rolled my party and got a pretty good one this time.

    Therella the Punisher - F Half-elf - Stalker - TN changed to NG -
    18/86 - 18 - 18 - 10 - 14 - 13
    Longsword **, Longbow **


    Kivan
    Yeslick
    Ajantis
    Viconia
    Garrick

    If I can manage to keep Ajantis and Viccy from fighting until we get Yeslick I should be in good shape (if I even get that far LOL) - I'm not a big mage fan anyway so Garrick will suffice for mage spells I guess.

    Lemernis
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    what a fail! i got the ettercap ambush in cloakwood and decided to run, but i forgot about the traps! we were taken out, defenseless in web. day 45

    dstoltzfusLemernis
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