@fighting_ferret looks like a good party you have their. two healers, one a cleric the other a druid to mix up some spells, two thieves that can be dueled to mage, 2 mages if you do the duel, and khalid could tank along with you or jaheira. you can even get most of them whenever you want except baeloth.
...This also brings up another question - does the random choosing of the party imply that one must keep them in the party as well or would we be free to use or not use them as we wish?
The idea was that you can add them in any order, and use them or not. But those are the ones you have a to work with. For the challenge.
... I generally strip Xzar and Monty too - I asked about this the other day - if it's allowed to take NPCs that are not on your list into the party long enough to collect their donations to your cause (Neera's gem bag, Xzar and Montys potions, Imoens potions and wand etc)...
Hmm, well, here again the idea was that for the challenge it poses you're really not supposed to add them even just to take their gear... But then again is any major advantage to be gained from their getting their gear? Not really.
I guess if you wanted you could also kill them, or an evil PC could charm them into attacking a guard or one of your party, or pickpocket them as well.
...This also brings up another question - does the random choosing of the party imply that one must keep them in the party as well or would we be free to use or not use them as we wish?
The idea was that you can add them in any order, and use them or not. But those are the ones you have a to work with. For the challenge.
... I generally strip Xzar and Monty too - I asked about this the other day - if it's allowed to take NPCs that are not on your list into the party long enough to collect their donations to your cause (Neera's gem bag, Xzar and Montys potions, Imoens potions and wand etc)...
Hmm, well, here again the idea was that for the challenge it poses you're really not supposed to add them even just to take their gear... But then again is any major advantage to be gained from their getting their gear? Not really.
I guess if you wanted you could also kill them, or an evil PC could charm them into attacking a guard or one of your party, or pickpocket them as well.
Anyway, imho not a big deal one way or the other.
RE: Companions not on your list - yeah I pretty much came to the same conclusion - (that it's not a big deal either way) - you can in fact kill them and AFAIK there is no rep hit for doing so or at least not for the characters I did so with so far - I suppose the advantage of adding them and immediately releasing them is there is no danger involved while killing them could mean game over if they best you - maybe that's enough of an advantage to make adding them against the spirit of the challenge.
If so I'm guessing Neera is going to die a thousand deaths by those who don't get to take her along but want her gem bag LOL.
I think maybe I will voluntarily stop the practice at least until a majority of the players chime in with a vote yeah or nay.
Meanwhile it's been a rough day at the FAI for me with not one or two but THREE sagas ending there at the hands of Tarnesh and another just ended as we traveled east to grab Sharteel and got ambushed by a herd of gibberlings that took out both my 6hp sorcerer and 4hp Neera while Kagain and Kivan shook their heads muttering about adventurers with no armor or helmets...LOL
If they aren't on your list, then you shouldn't add them ever. If RP'ing permits, I'd say killing might be ok. The whole point of this is the challenge of the randomness (both character creation and party).
@Wanderon: I've done 3 characters so far and none of them have fallen to Tarnesh (nor do non-random challenge characters fall to him but rarely). There is a potion of clarity in the Candlekeep Inn (if your character does that kind of thing) and the wand of magic missiles (and ranged attacks) works well to interrupt spells.
i never added anyone for items except imoen because she auto joins after she talks to you and then i take her stuff and boot her. i have no choice but to have her for a moment
If they aren't on your list, then you shouldn't add them ever. If RP'ing permits, I'd say killing might be ok. The whole point of this is the challenge of the randomness (both character creation and party).
@Wanderon: I've done 3 characters so far and none of them have fallen to Tarnesh (nor do non-random challenge characters fall to him but rarely). There is a potion of clarity in the Candlekeep Inn (if your character does that kind of thing) and the wand of magic missiles (and ranged attacks) works well to interrupt spells.
I can't count the number of characters I have played over the past 15 years that have not fallen to Tarnesh - this ain't my first rodeo LOL.
I did NOT have good luck using the wand to interrupt today (used it in all three that fell today and not one stopped either the mirror image nor the horror ) and I would NEVER actually use (waste) a potion for a single battle that I can sell for 350 gold that early in the game when gold is scarce and prices are high - in fact I rarely use any potions other than healing or antidote and even then I use them grudgingly.
Potions???? We don't need no stinkin' potions!!!! Seriously I generally give the game every opportunity to beat me rather than load up on wands, potions, and other crutches to make battles easier...call me hard headed when I win I don't want any whining from the other side that I took the easy way out LOL.
That said I don't typically take a single PC or duo (especially a mage or sorc like I did today) to deal with Tarnesh - if I'm headed right to FAI I bring the Zhents and Immy along even if I don't plan to use them so poor old Tarnesh usually doesn't stand a chance - and did I mention that I almost never play squishy mage types for my PC that can be one shotted by a gibberling for game over until about level 3? LOL
Anyway ya win some ya lose some - thats why I keep playing the game it was fun while it lasted and I got to play with more characters this way and tomorrows another day.
@ Wanderon: I didn't mean anything negative about my comments. Monty is awesome for taking Tarnesh out . One thing I've definitely learned (it's on the corresponding thread too ha) is that I am terribly conservative with wands, scrolls and potions. But, after having many games at the end with my inventory full of that stuff, and moving on to no-reload/minimum/reload style games, why not use all of that? I RP as much as possible and never pre-buff. Using the potion of clarity (if chest-looting is applicable) at the start of a fight with an ambushing mage is perfectly reasonable, in my opinion...unless you're playing a naive character (which I've done).
Just saying, even under some decent restrictions, Tarnesh rarely troubles me (though, I do get pretty lucky; e.g. I had a warrior doing this challenge, who was one-shot by a ankheg, who got a good hit in with her sword -- killing Tarnesh. I had no potion (as she was LN) and no early NPC's until after FAI).
It has been suggested that we might refine the randomization table to get more even odds for the various classes and kits.
When Drone shared his system we didn't have the new kits that we got in the last patch. The way I added some of the new kits in uses lower odds to get them.
As we know, the system uses digits 0-9. But there are 12 main classes. Drone's solution to that was if you rolled a 9 for the Class digit you were free to choose among Monk, Sorcerer, and Barbarian, which then had no kits. My modification (which involved little thought, I admit) was to take three of the new kits related to those classes (Dragon Disciple, Sun Soul Monk, and Dark Moon Monk) and add them in along with pure class Monk, Sorcerer, and Barbarian; you then roll 1d6 for which one of those you get.
Now, there's a 10% chance of rolling all the classes other than Monk, Sorcerer, and Barbarian. For Monk, Sun Soul Monk, Dark Moon Monk, Sorcerer, Dragon Disciple, and Barbarian there is still a 10% chance of drawing from that pool. But the odds of getting the pure class are diluted by the subsequent 1d6 roll.
(Note: The Shadowdancer I fit into the kits for Thief, since kits already for that class existed in the system. And Dwarven Defender hasn't yet been released I guess, right? I don't see it in character creation under Fighter.)
So one way to solve this is to use the WotC dice roller to roll each aspect of the character instead of using the random number generator:
Sub-class (multi or kit) - Each possible sub-class = one side of a die (plus add the option to pick your own?) Multi-class - 1d10 Fighter - 1d5 Ranger - 1d5 Paladin - 1d6 Cleric - 1d5 Druid - 1d5 Bard - 1d5 Thief - 1d6 Mage - 1d10 Monk - 1d4 Sorcerer - 1d3
Alignment roll 1d10 etc.
Number of Ability score re-rolls roll 1d10
Voice Set roll 1d7 etc.
So this would take a little longer, but it would provide more even odds.
Drone's random number generator system, and my modification to it, has some built-in quirks that make the the odds of getting some things a little lower, but it's a little easier to generate your character with.
I guess we could make it optional to use the 'dice only' method? If there's a consensus to do so I'll make an alternate table for it.
But I'd skip "pick" option in Race and Class if you use WotC dice roller. Just because it's MUCH more easier to roll 8 in 1d8 and 12 in 1d12 than to get 0 in one of digits while using Random generator of 9999 and 999! The "pick" option in Race and Class if you use WotC dice roller pulls together this random game and any usual game.
My another two cents - Dwarven Defender has been released and is available - you see it in character creation under Fighter is you've chosen a dwarf race.
@bengoshi Okay, thanks re: Dwarven Defender, I'll have to revise the tables to make it available.
I'm still digesting your observation about the odds with the random number generator versus a die roll... Ultimately isn't there still a 1 in 10 chance for each digit, even with a randomly generated 4 digit number? I don't know probability well enough, it's been a dog's age since I took that in college, lol.
My strategy is going to be to 1) avoid all fights that aren't essential, and 2) try to assemble the resources with which to win the chapter final battles, and do so at the lowest risk. I will absolutely use wands and potions, and I think they will prove key to the overall strategy. But the challenge is how to acquire them at the lowest possible risk. I know that throughout the course of the game, a lot of stuff is dropped (here measuring out the risk of taking on the fight to get them). But I'm not sure if I want to go to the trouble of checking Dudleyville to see which encounter drops the things I want. (Mainly, wands of Sleep, Horror, Fire, and Paralyzation.)
It's possible that Tarnesh and Nimbul might be defeated fairly easily with Blindness. In vanilla BG:EE it seems that when a spellcaster standing at a distance is Blinded, he or she then ceases casting and just stands there dumbfounded. At least that's what I experienced with the mage in the bandit camp boss tent in my 'Let the Fates Decide' game. I'm not sure if that was a bug or a peculiarity of how that particular mage is scripted, though.
Re: Tarnesh & Nimbul & general strategy for speed games:
For me from what I recall from the speed game competition I hosted back in the day it was a fine line between whether or not a particular item or reward was worth the combination of game time spent and danger of dying becuase as the game continues while avoiding fights often means lower time spent that also may mean lower levels and lower gear which can make later chapters more difficult to handle should one make it that far.
It also means making the choice between gathering your party asap for more combat options and the chance to level evryone as you go or keeping your group small early to gain more levels and depending on the game leveling your other characters for you which of course may mean less than optimal prof choices for them.
This challenge compounds the problem by restricting who can join you making the gathering of the party another dangerous option.
FYI, rules amended to include no CLUA Console codes or cheats. And no modding.
But I hasten to add: If enough folks feel they would like to have a parallel contest that allows EEkeepering of illegal race/class/alignments I do think that could be fun. So if you think you'd like that too I'll add a separate leader board in the topic starter for that as well! Just say the word.
Randomly Generated No-reload Speed Game Contest Rules
1) It's all on the honor system.
2) You determine your PC and the party per this system. If your PC is impossible then you can
a) re-roll the PC till you get one that is, b) round up the number for race, class, or alignment until you get something that works; your pick as to which to round up, c) re-roll the digit for race, class, or alignment using the random number generator (minimum 0, maximum 9) or roll a 1d9 using the WotC dice roller, d) if you roll a human and class you get is multi-class, then you could make that class combo a dual-class.
3) You can take your best of three tries at rolling the PC and party. Then begin the game.
a) If you roll the same number for a NPC twice you can roll again until you get 5 NPCs. b) If three or more NPCs aren't available until Chapters 4 or 5 you may re-roll.
4) No reloading whatsoever. If the PC dies it's game over.
5) Core rules.
6) No CLUA Console or cheat codes allowed. No mods, including EEKeepering. We're playing vanilla BG:EE.
7) Once the game begins you're free to add the NPCs you rolled in any order. You may not add any other NPCs, however. You can go ahead and Ctrl+Y the other member of a NPC pair. Or dispose of the character however you wish. They just can't be part of your travels/adventuring.
8) Recommended but not a strict rule: Regularly share some notes on the progress of your game. And/or share screenshots.
9) Tactically speaking, metagame away (you'll have in order to have a prayer of survival).
10) And the winner is... the player who completes the game in the least number of days. If none make it that far, the winner will be PC who makes it to the farthest chapter in the least number of days.
male half elf mage/thief, kagain, minsc, neera, coran, jaheira
male elf ranger pick, imoen, khalid, viconia, dorn, xan
female elf thief pick, edwin, mystery, jaheira, khalid, xan
i've become a random roll addict and must stop! there were many more but they just don't seem capable. i keep rolling characters for something manageable and then rolling a party and these were what seemed capable of being done. i might go with the thief first, but i have a lot of ranger picks that could make me a lot of archer runs. i need to look through my random parties for which to start first. this is just too addicting!
Wierd things going on with my random rolls today - did 3 - got Garrick as the 3rd companion every time - rolled 2 Half-orcs - then got a pick for race for a fighter so of course I took - Half-orc LOL.
First one was a half-orc thief - SD (pick) - 1 reroll was decent but team was Quayle - Sharteel - Garrick Yeslick & Xan (Yeslick and Xan showed up in 2 out of three teams also)
Next was looking good M Half-orc Fighter (pick) then rolled a Kensai with 1 reroll (76) - I didn't even finish creating him - decent team tho - Branwen - Rasaad - Garrick - Monty & Xzar - I hate the whole kensai concept tho especially for BG1.
Last one was pretty good tho M -pick-fighter-pick - almost went Dwarven defender but went for Half-orc Beserker instead - 10 rerolls and the second one was a 90! so our new hero wanna be is:
Krolun Winterclaw - M NE Half-orc - 19-18-19-10-10-14 Mace ** Bastard Sword * Two Weapon style * Team - Imoen - Garrick - Xan - Coran - Yeslick
Still a party of two with Imoen at Chap 2 day 4 hour 11. Krolun Level 2 Imoen Level 3 trying to decide whether to go back to Beregost to try to recruit Garrick or take the mines as a duo - I'm thinking the Mulahay battle might be too much for the two of them altho I'm not sure how much help Garrick will be nor whether the two of them can handle Silke at these levels either.
In other news I've discovered that you can't kill Neera at the end of the opening fight with her - she takes damage but never dies until she can say her lines at the end and once that happens if you are not taking her along she is gone too quick to kill her - or was for us - so no gem bag unless you can pickpocket it later at the FAI which is unlikely for us as Imoen has better things to use her skill points on in a no reload game.
after looking at my options, and even rolling some more, my next character: male elf archer, imoen, minsc, dyanheir, shar teel, viconia
a very lucky roll. an elf archer will have insane hit chances, we have a thief, minsc and shar teel up front, and viccy as a cleric. also dynaheir can use more of the important spells than xan (at least what i find important)
stats were amazing at well: 18/93, 19, 17, 10, 14, 15 (93 total)
now to just hope that i don't have some stupid death
okay, so i am officially addicted, but i found this one as well: male paladin pick (would be inquisitor again) , minsc, kivan, kagain, mystery, safana
One thing I think needs improved on the generator is the acquisition of multiclasses. The only way to get them with the chart is to roll a zero and the only way to get it with the dice is ??? since it's not included on the class role (maybe you mean a separate roll on top of the subclass roll?).
I think multiclasses should be a little more common than those odds. I propose a regular 1d11 (or 1d12 if you prefer the "choose" option, which I do not) for the class and then add a side of the die for each classes' subclass roll for the chance at a multiclass. Then rolling once again to determine the mutliclass (if applicable) of each of the available multiclass combinations. Basically, treating each multiclass as a subclass on the roll
(e.g. rolling a 1 on 1d11 gives you a fighter. You would then roll a 1d6 to determine the subclass/multiclass: 1 - 5 kits, 6 being a muticlass. If you rolled a 6, the you'd roll another 1d6 for the possible muticlass combinations).
Not the worst. Imoen will definitely be dualed (assuming I make it that far). Rasaad, I might not keep, since he's really not going to like my party, and he's dead weight anyway (I might try his quest...I've never had Rasaad in a party). The tough part will be the front-line position. Obviously Monty is one. I know Viconia can be good AC-wise, but her constitution is so abysmal. Maybe Brawen? I've always wanted to have her in a party. One of them will be wielding The Stupefier.
Chaotic evil though...I wonder how far this will go...
I kept a journal-like RP log of Yenlamin's journey. It's not great, and I didn't include screen shots, but someone might like it:
Gorion wishes me to get ready for some kind of journey outside of the keep. Although he is a fool, he is a powerful fool. Such misplaced power too. He could do so much more with himself; instead, he wastes it on Harper foolishness and gives his power away to others. This weakness makes him useful. I will prepare, after I take some things from the visiting nobles…it is extremely enjoyable to see their faces as I rob them of their precious things that they show so much value for: such arbitrary idiocy. Wealth is but a tool to command the weak.
Some idiot named “Shank” attempted to murder me. I sliced his chest, vanished, and broke a dagger in his back: a delightful amount of blood. Things have already started to improve.
It’s such a pain living here. Candlekeep, with its rules and strict illusion of order, is unbearably suffocating. I often have to treat people as children: speaking softly to them in sweet phrases to control them more effectively. Parda was concerned by the “noise” of Shank’s beautifully orchestrated demise. It’s amazing how stupid people are when you talk to them harmoniously. They eat up every word and smile. They are weak children.
*sigh* more errands. If there wasn’t money to be gained from these incessantly boring activities, I’d be hard-pressed to not go on a killing spree. Unfortunately, I need the coin. I’m sure this journey with Gorion will not go as planned. He’s too much of a fool for that.
Another delightful visit from an inept “assassin”. Carbos was slaughtered in much quicker order than the previous. I merely vanished and garroted his jugular veins (at least the blood flow suggested that I got them both). I feel better about doing Hull’s frustratingly stupid errand.
Again, the killing was heard outside of the room. You can’t kill anyone without it being noticed around here. It’s insufferable. I gave Karan a puppy-dog speech. I almost was able to force a tear…almost…I should work on that.
That imbecile Hull! He had the gall to call me a childish “twerp”. If I were not surrounded by Watchers I would have erupted violence upon that arrogant fool! I had to retreat around the corner and into the shadows to contain myself. It would be unwise to draw the vengeance of the Watchers, especially when escape from the keep is moments away. Someday, I will return and kill him with great prejudice. (I really thought about attacking and running into shadows to kill Hull until I landed enough backstabs to do the job and then vanish to escape, but decided at level 1, my thac0 is just too bad)
As I expected, Gorion’s plan, whatever that might have been, was foolishly shortsighted and misguided. We were ambushed by some unknown and powerful assailants. The armored figure in charge of the party was demanding that Gorion hand me over. I clutched my dagger, expecting a fight, but Gorion denied the request and insisted that I run. Well, the odds were greatly in the assailant’s favor and it was a good chance to escape on my own. Gorion’s weakness cost him his life and granted my freedom. What to do now?
Imoen apparently escaped Candlekeep somehow…following Gorion and I? She is a little more resourceful than I had thought. It is no small feat to escape like that and remain undetected following Gorion and I. I’d rather travel alone, but she is nothing if not persistent in following me. Perhaps she can be useful. If she becomes a burden, I could always kill her. I have always delighted with such a fantasy growing up in Candlekeep of plunging a dagger in her throat…the possibilities open to me now that I’m outside of that horrendous prison have put me in good spirits.
A possible dilemma. I have met two useful pawns on the road outside of Candlekeep. A Halfling strongman and some crazed wizard. Both seem untrustworthy: the former seems likely to kill me in the shadows given an opportunity, the latter so imbalanced that who knows what unfortunate mischief his actions could cause me. On the other hand, a good distracting sword-arm who is adept at killing himself could be useful and a mage, no matter how mad, is a useful tool. Hmm…is the mage’s madness worth the risk?
I made my way back to the corpse of Gorion and the assailants who had met their demise in the ambush. There was a letter from an “E” describing the situation. Apparently, I’m involuntarily involved in some sort of plot. Clearly, someone doesn’t like my existence. Now that I’m on my own, I’ll be sure to eliminate this potential threat. These friend’s of Gorion’s at the Friendly Arm Inn...if they are close associates of Gorion’s, I doubt that I’ll be able to put up with their company. I see little use for such idiots…unless of course, they were particularly powerful…even then, they’d probably be more willing to balk my actions then assist in them. Perhaps I should check them out just in case. They might know more of my situation regardless.
We were ambushed by a wolf. The idiots were supposed to follow my scouting and not deviate from my path. It must be that mad wizard’s doing. He was bitten badly by the wolf, but sadly, he still lives. Once we get to the Friendly Arm, should he still live, I think I will eliminate him. He is clearly the weak link.
Some old man interrupted our travels. I could sense a power behind him. He also hinted at “friends” at the Friendly Arm, gladly hinting at the direction of the place. Very suspicious…
The man in the black robe quickly looks over the corpses for valuables as he clutches the dagger wound in his side. He roughly strips the bodies and hurries off into the nearby inn; shouts from guards echo in the night as terrified adventurers run uncontrollably through the street. Tarnesh briefly looks back before opening the door with a sly smirk on his face. He has earned his bounty.
*Yenlamin was one shot by a magic missle volley. I had forgotten that it did so much damage, as I usually kill him first. I used the potion of clarity at the beginning, but everyone else failed the throw. My hide in shadows failed, otherwise I’d probably win easily. Ah well. I think that I’ve learned a new approach at playing chaotic evil characters.*
Comments
I guess if you wanted you could also kill them, or an evil PC could charm them into attacking a guard or one of your party, or pickpocket them as well.
Anyway, imho not a big deal one way or the other.
If so I'm guessing Neera is going to die a thousand deaths by those who don't get to take her along but want her gem bag LOL.
I think maybe I will voluntarily stop the practice at least until a majority of the players chime in with a vote yeah or nay.
Meanwhile it's been a rough day at the FAI for me with not one or two but THREE sagas ending there at the hands of Tarnesh and another just ended as we traveled east to grab Sharteel and got ambushed by a herd of gibberlings that took out both my 6hp sorcerer and 4hp Neera while Kagain and Kivan shook their heads muttering about adventurers with no armor or helmets...LOL
@Wanderon: I've done 3 characters so far and none of them have fallen to Tarnesh (nor do non-random challenge characters fall to him but rarely). There is a potion of clarity in the Candlekeep Inn (if your character does that kind of thing) and the wand of magic missiles (and ranged attacks) works well to interrupt spells.
female half elf swashbuckler, mystery npc, kagain, safana, ajantis, feldorn
male human invoker, rasaad, dorn, coran, montaron, minsc
female pick ranger pick, ajantis, branwen, viconia, shar teel, safana
another female pick ranger pick, but with imoen, coran, dynaheir, khalid, and branwen (think i like this one better)
might make an archer!
I did NOT have good luck using the wand to interrupt today (used it in all three that fell today and not one stopped either the mirror image nor the horror ) and I would NEVER actually use (waste) a potion for a single battle that I can sell for 350 gold that early in the game when gold is scarce and prices are high - in fact I rarely use any potions other than healing or antidote and even then I use them grudgingly.
Potions???? We don't need no stinkin' potions!!!! Seriously I generally give the game every opportunity to beat me rather than load up on wands, potions, and other crutches to make battles easier...call me hard headed when I win I don't want any whining from the other side that I took the easy way out LOL.
That said I don't typically take a single PC or duo (especially a mage or sorc like I did today) to deal with Tarnesh - if I'm headed right to FAI I bring the Zhents and Immy along even if I don't plan to use them so poor old Tarnesh usually doesn't stand a chance - and did I mention that I almost never play squishy mage types for my PC that can be one shotted by a gibberling for game over until about level 3? LOL
Anyway ya win some ya lose some - thats why I keep playing the game it was fun while it lasted and I got to play with more characters this way and tomorrows another day.
Just saying, even under some decent restrictions, Tarnesh rarely troubles me (though, I do get pretty lucky; e.g. I had a warrior doing this challenge, who was one-shot by a ankheg, who got a good hit in with her sword -- killing Tarnesh. I had no potion (as she was LN) and no early NPC's until after FAI).
Pick Gender: Male
Gnome
Sorc, Monk or Barb
Known for their fierceness, only Barb is legal to Gnomes.
LE
4 rolls
Male3
Companions I rolled as 6 15 29 8 26
Dorn
Khalid
Yeslick
Edwin
Viconia
Which is quite impressive.
What follows is a large update of what he accomplished in the last two days (IRL days :P ).
I rolled a 18/00 on the first roll, so I went with that.
Jaheira had to go.
After establishing my early game party, I killed an ogre.
XP grinding at Basilisk map. A sling using high STR Barbarian is quite effective.
Silke was met with some Gnomish wrath.
As was Karlat.
Some blue thing tried to sexually abuse me.
Bassilus was silenced and killed.
Sirine grinding.
"Oops, my axe slipped."
Delaying getting Edwin paid off. He now has double the XP of my other guys, and a free Haste!
Here's my PC at this point
Got Dorn to finish my party composition for now.
Killed Greywolf for his sword.
I killed a bandit who dared harass us.
Dorn went down to an Ogre Berserker who got too close, oops.
Killed Dynaheir for Edwin, wasting a lot of time
Some crazy person attacked us in town.
Killing Mulahey was easy. Unfortunately my PC was confused...
...and killed Edwin.
Nimbul was silenced and dealt with swiftly.
So that's my current progress. Chapter 3, 24 days. I feel I'm quite nicely set up now to rush through the early game. The game, my good sirs, is on.
When Drone shared his system we didn't have the new kits that we got in the last patch. The way I added some of the new kits in uses lower odds to get them.
As we know, the system uses digits 0-9. But there are 12 main classes. Drone's solution to that was if you rolled a 9 for the Class digit you were free to choose among Monk, Sorcerer, and Barbarian, which then had no kits. My modification (which involved little thought, I admit) was to take three of the new kits related to those classes (Dragon Disciple, Sun Soul Monk, and Dark Moon Monk) and add them in along with pure class Monk, Sorcerer, and Barbarian; you then roll 1d6 for which one of those you get.
Now, there's a 10% chance of rolling all the classes other than Monk, Sorcerer, and Barbarian. For Monk, Sun Soul Monk, Dark Moon Monk, Sorcerer, Dragon Disciple, and Barbarian there is still a 10% chance of drawing from that pool. But the odds of getting the pure class are diluted by the subsequent 1d6 roll.
(Note: The Shadowdancer I fit into the kits for Thief, since kits already for that class existed in the system. And Dwarven Defender hasn't yet been released I guess, right? I don't see it in character creation under Fighter.)
So one way to solve this is to use the WotC dice roller to roll each aspect of the character instead of using the random number generator:
Gender
roll 1d3
1 = Female
2 = Male
3 = Pick
Race
roll 1d8
1 = Human
2 = Elf
3 = Half-elf
4 = Gnome
5 = Halfling
6 = Dwarf
7 = Half-Orc
8 = Pick
Class
roll 1d12
1 = Fighter
2 = Ranger
3 = Paladin
4 = Cleric
5 = Druid
6 = Mage
7 = Thief
8 = Bard
9 = Sorcerer
10 = Monk
11 = Barbarian
12 = Pick
Sub-class (multi or kit) - Each possible sub-class = one side of a die (plus add the option to pick your own?)
Multi-class - 1d10
Fighter - 1d5
Ranger - 1d5
Paladin - 1d6
Cleric - 1d5
Druid - 1d5
Bard - 1d5
Thief - 1d6
Mage - 1d10
Monk - 1d4
Sorcerer - 1d3
Alignment
roll 1d10
etc.
Number of Ability score re-rolls
roll 1d10
Voice Set
roll 1d7
etc.
So this would take a little longer, but it would provide more even odds.
Drone's random number generator system, and my modification to it, has some built-in quirks that make the the odds of getting some things a little lower, but it's a little easier to generate your character with.
I guess we could make it optional to use the 'dice only' method? If there's a consensus to do so I'll make an alternate table for it.
But I'd skip "pick" option in Race and Class if you use WotC dice roller. Just because it's MUCH more easier to roll 8 in 1d8 and 12 in 1d12 than to get 0 in one of digits while using Random generator of 9999 and 999! The "pick" option in Race and Class if you use WotC dice roller pulls together this random game and any usual game.
My another two cents - Dwarven Defender has been released and is available - you see it in character creation under Fighter is you've chosen a dwarf race.
I'm still digesting your observation about the odds with the random number generator versus a die roll... Ultimately isn't there still a 1 in 10 chance for each digit, even with a randomly generated 4 digit number? I don't know probability well enough, it's been a dog's age since I took that in college, lol.
My strategy is going to be to 1) avoid all fights that aren't essential, and 2) try to assemble the resources with which to win the chapter final battles, and do so at the lowest risk. I will absolutely use wands and potions, and I think they will prove key to the overall strategy. But the challenge is how to acquire them at the lowest possible risk. I know that throughout the course of the game, a lot of stuff is dropped (here measuring out the risk of taking on the fight to get them). But I'm not sure if I want to go to the trouble of checking Dudleyville to see which encounter drops the things I want. (Mainly, wands of Sleep, Horror, Fire, and Paralyzation.)
It's possible that Tarnesh and Nimbul might be defeated fairly easily with Blindness. In vanilla BG:EE it seems that when a spellcaster standing at a distance is Blinded, he or she then ceases casting and just stands there dumbfounded. At least that's what I experienced with the mage in the bandit camp boss tent in my 'Let the Fates Decide' game. I'm not sure if that was a bug or a peculiarity of how that particular mage is scripted, though.
Re: Tarnesh & Nimbul & general strategy for speed games:
For me from what I recall from the speed game competition I hosted back in the day it was a fine line between whether or not a particular item or reward was worth the combination of game time spent and danger of dying becuase as the game continues while avoiding fights often means lower time spent that also may mean lower levels and lower gear which can make later chapters more difficult to handle should one make it that far.
It also means making the choice between gathering your party asap for more combat options and the chance to level evryone as you go or keeping your group small early to gain more levels and depending on the game leveling your other characters for you which of course may mean less than optimal prof choices for them.
This challenge compounds the problem by restricting who can join you making the gathering of the party another dangerous option.
But I hasten to add: If enough folks feel they would like to have a parallel contest that allows EEkeepering of illegal race/class/alignments I do think that could be fun. So if you think you'd like that too I'll add a separate leader board in the topic starter for that as well! Just say the word.
male elf ranger pick, imoen, khalid, viconia, dorn, xan
female elf thief pick, edwin, mystery, jaheira, khalid, xan
i've become a random roll addict and must stop! there were many more but they just don't seem capable. i keep rolling characters for something manageable and then rolling a party and these were what seemed capable of being done. i might go with the thief first, but i have a lot of ranger picks that could make me a lot of archer runs. i need to look through my random parties for which to start first. this is just too addicting!
First one was a half-orc thief - SD (pick) - 1 reroll was decent but team was Quayle - Sharteel - Garrick Yeslick & Xan (Yeslick and Xan showed up in 2 out of three teams also)
Next was looking good M Half-orc Fighter (pick) then rolled a Kensai with 1 reroll (76) - I didn't even finish creating him - decent team tho - Branwen - Rasaad - Garrick - Monty & Xzar - I hate the whole kensai concept tho especially for BG1.
Last one was pretty good tho M -pick-fighter-pick - almost went Dwarven defender but went for Half-orc Beserker instead - 10 rerolls and the second one was a 90! so our new hero wanna be is:
Krolun Winterclaw - M NE Half-orc - 19-18-19-10-10-14
Mace ** Bastard Sword * Two Weapon style *
Team - Imoen - Garrick - Xan - Coran - Yeslick
Off we go...
Still a party of two with Imoen at Chap 2 day 4 hour 11. Krolun Level 2 Imoen Level 3 trying to decide whether to go back to Beregost to try to recruit Garrick or take the mines as a duo - I'm thinking the Mulahay battle might be too much for the two of them altho I'm not sure how much help Garrick will be nor whether the two of them can handle Silke at these levels either.
In other news I've discovered that you can't kill Neera at the end of the opening fight with her - she takes damage but never dies until she can say her lines at the end and once that happens if you are not taking her along she is gone too quick to kill her - or was for us - so no gem bag unless you can pickpocket it later at the FAI which is unlikely for us as Imoen has better things to use her skill points on in a no reload game.
male elf archer, imoen, minsc, dyanheir, shar teel, viconia
a very lucky roll. an elf archer will have insane hit chances, we have a thief, minsc and shar teel up front, and viccy as a cleric. also dynaheir can use more of the important spells than xan (at least what i find important)
stats were amazing at well: 18/93, 19, 17, 10, 14, 15 (93 total)
now to just hope that i don't have some stupid death
okay, so i am officially addicted, but i found this one as well:
male paladin pick (would be inquisitor again) , minsc, kivan, kagain, mystery, safana
I think multiclasses should be a little more common than those odds. I propose a regular 1d11 (or 1d12 if you prefer the "choose" option, which I do not) for the class and then add a side of the die for each classes' subclass roll for the chance at a multiclass. Then rolling once again to determine the mutliclass (if applicable) of each of the available multiclass combinations. Basically, treating each multiclass as a subclass on the roll
(e.g. rolling a 1 on 1d11 gives you a fighter. You would then roll a 1d6 to determine the subclass/multiclass: 1 - 5 kits, 6 being a muticlass. If you rolled a 6, the you'd roll another 1d6 for the possible muticlass combinations).
Yenlamin, Half-Elf, Male, Shadowdancer, chaotic evil (boy...that's going to interesting....)
9 re-rolls: 16/18/16/12/10/12
party is:
4 - Branwen
18 - Montaron
21 - Rasaad
26 - Viconia
12 - Imoen
20 - Quayle
Not the worst. Imoen will definitely be dualed (assuming I make it that far). Rasaad, I might not keep, since he's really not going to like my party, and he's dead weight anyway (I might try his quest...I've never had Rasaad in a party). The tough part will be the front-line position. Obviously Monty is one. I know Viconia can be good AC-wise, but her constitution is so abysmal. Maybe Brawen? I've always wanted to have her in a party. One of them will be wielding The Stupefier.
Chaotic evil though...I wonder how far this will go...
Some idiot named “Shank” attempted to murder me. I sliced his chest, vanished, and broke a dagger in his back: a delightful amount of blood. Things have already started to improve.
It’s such a pain living here. Candlekeep, with its rules and strict illusion of order, is unbearably suffocating. I often have to treat people as children: speaking softly to them in sweet phrases to control them more effectively. Parda was concerned by the “noise” of Shank’s beautifully orchestrated demise. It’s amazing how stupid people are when you talk to them harmoniously. They eat up every word and smile. They are weak children.
*sigh* more errands. If there wasn’t money to be gained from these incessantly boring activities, I’d be hard-pressed to not go on a killing spree. Unfortunately, I need the coin. I’m sure this journey with Gorion will not go as planned. He’s too much of a fool for that.
Another delightful visit from an inept “assassin”. Carbos was slaughtered in much quicker order than the previous. I merely vanished and garroted his jugular veins (at least the blood flow suggested that I got them both). I feel better about doing Hull’s frustratingly stupid errand.
Again, the killing was heard outside of the room. You can’t kill anyone without it being noticed around here. It’s insufferable. I gave Karan a puppy-dog speech. I almost was able to force a tear…almost…I should work on that.
That imbecile Hull! He had the gall to call me a childish “twerp”. If I were not surrounded by Watchers I would have erupted violence upon that arrogant fool! I had to retreat around the corner and into the shadows to contain myself. It would be unwise to draw the vengeance of the Watchers, especially when escape from the keep is moments away. Someday, I will return and kill him with great prejudice. (I really thought about attacking and running into shadows to kill Hull until I landed enough backstabs to do the job and then vanish to escape, but decided at level 1, my thac0 is just too bad)
As I expected, Gorion’s plan, whatever that might have been, was foolishly shortsighted and misguided. We were ambushed by some unknown and powerful assailants. The armored figure in charge of the party was demanding that Gorion hand me over. I clutched my dagger, expecting a fight, but Gorion denied the request and insisted that I run. Well, the odds were greatly in the assailant’s favor and it was a good chance to escape on my own. Gorion’s weakness cost him his life and granted my freedom. What to do now?
Imoen apparently escaped Candlekeep somehow…following Gorion and I? She is a little more resourceful than I had thought. It is no small feat to escape like that and remain undetected following Gorion and I. I’d rather travel alone, but she is nothing if not persistent in following me. Perhaps she can be useful. If she becomes a burden, I could always kill her. I have always delighted with such a fantasy growing up in Candlekeep of plunging a dagger in her throat…the possibilities open to me now that I’m outside of that horrendous prison have put me in good spirits.
A possible dilemma. I have met two useful pawns on the road outside of Candlekeep. A Halfling strongman and some crazed wizard. Both seem untrustworthy: the former seems likely to kill me in the shadows given an opportunity, the latter so imbalanced that who knows what unfortunate mischief his actions could cause me. On the other hand, a good distracting sword-arm who is adept at killing himself could be useful and a mage, no matter how mad, is a useful tool. Hmm…is the mage’s madness worth the risk?
I made my way back to the corpse of Gorion and the assailants who had met their demise in the ambush. There was a letter from an “E” describing the situation. Apparently, I’m involuntarily involved in some sort of plot. Clearly, someone doesn’t like my existence. Now that I’m on my own, I’ll be sure to eliminate this potential threat. These friend’s of Gorion’s at the Friendly Arm Inn...if they are close associates of Gorion’s, I doubt that I’ll be able to put up with their company. I see little use for such idiots…unless of course, they were particularly powerful…even then, they’d probably be more willing to balk my actions then assist in them. Perhaps I should check them out just in case. They might know more of my situation regardless.
We were ambushed by a wolf. The idiots were supposed to follow my scouting and not deviate from my path. It must be that mad wizard’s doing. He was bitten badly by the wolf, but sadly, he still lives. Once we get to the Friendly Arm, should he still live, I think I will eliminate him. He is clearly the weak link.
Some old man interrupted our travels. I could sense a power behind him. He also hinted at “friends” at the Friendly Arm, gladly hinting at the direction of the place. Very suspicious…
The man in the black robe quickly looks over the corpses for valuables as he clutches the dagger wound in his side. He roughly strips the bodies and hurries off into the nearby inn; shouts from guards echo in the night as terrified adventurers run uncontrollably through the street. Tarnesh briefly looks back before opening the door with a sly smirk on his face. He has earned his bounty.
*Yenlamin was one shot by a magic missle volley. I had forgotten that it did so much damage, as I usually kill him first. I used the potion of clarity at the beginning, but everyone else failed the throw. My hide in shadows failed, otherwise I’d probably win easily. Ah well. I think that I’ve learned a new approach at playing chaotic evil characters.*