I think the problem is that she will still start her dialogue after turning hostile. Other NPCs, once attacked, won't try to speak to you anymore and go to "has nothing to say" or "seems busy" when they are red. Neera turns red/hostile either way, and stays that way even when talking, and goes back to blue/neutral after the speech (and disappears a second later, unless you lured her far enough from the disappear point).
She's a legit target due to having the gem bag, but her trying to talk to you even if you already made clear that you aren't going to help her makes it an unneccesary annoyance. If that could be fixed, I'd be a very happy sociopath.
I don't endorse mandatory NPCs in order to get to certain areas either. To compare to BG2, for example, you have to have Valygar to get in the Planar Sphere. You can take him with you or you can use his corpse as a key to get in there. Once inside you can ditch him at the door (if he's alive or dead) and at no point does he pop up into a cutscene or become unkillable because of fear of breaking the plot.
Or to obtain certain items. Dorn is a real problem here; every party that has a bard must take him along and accept the rep drop. His character is extreme and hence hard to incorporate in a good or good-leaning neutral party. If the entire bard class was restricted to evil alignment, okay, might make it acceptable. But it isn't, and I'm all for moving the Elven Chain to a non-NPC specific quest. (Nimbul, or - my fave - hidden in Firewine Ruins) "But Dorn's questline has already been changed once" is invalid; it didn't address the issue of an item many parties want being stuck in his quest. So go ahead, move it again.
The Neera problem, and the need to be able to kill her... If I kill her from the distance before talking to her, I do so for one reason: immersion breaker if I do. I will have Edwin in my party, and if the dialogue triggers, I will be faced with the choice: Keep Edwin, turn Neera down, not get essential item (gem bag), not break immersion - or tell Edwin to gtfo, take Neera in party, take gem bag, remove Neera, take Edwin in party again, break immersion into a million tiny little pieces. If I kill her after the cutscene and fight, I have the same issue with the added immersion breaker of having told Ekandor twice that he can have her, and more than roleplay/head canon evidence that Edwin is aware of the interest in Neera and would try to capture her at this point. It also means taking the risk that she'll walk off before I manage to kill her - immersion breaker no. 108: having to go to FAI to get the gem bag via immersion breaker no. 16 (remove Edwin, take in Neera and so on).
Just let the nameless Red Wizard stand around a bit longer; let me help him to capture Neera and give me the empty gem bag as reward. Makes perfect sense an evil NPC would give me a "worthless" reward, after removing the "treasure" (Neera's quest gems). Voila, poor immersion is on the way to recovery. This wouldn't even need Edwin-specific lines - any evil party, Edwin-less ones included (blasphemy!) would likely side with the Red Wizards. Lawful evil because hey, the wizards have a point. Neutral evil because oh, a bounty, I get a reward. Chaotic evil because.
I have learn that when you are evil there are bount hunters sometimes that want to kill you lol? Is it new feature in bg:ee?
I recently ran into one I'd never seen before: a young, enthusiastic Harper who you can get to leave nonviolently by basically screwing with his head. One of the few nonviolent-yet-evil dialogs in the game, and it took me 15 years to find it.
I think the problem is that she will still start her dialogue after turning hostile. Other NPCs, once attacked, won't try to speak to you anymore and go to "has nothing to say" or "seems busy" when they are red. Neera turns red/hostile either way, and stays that way even when talking, and goes back to blue/neutral after the speech (and disappears a second later, unless you lured her far enough from the disappear point).
She's a legit target due to having the gem bag, but her trying to talk to you even if you already made clear that you aren't going to help her makes it an unneccesary annoyance. If that could be fixed, I'd be a very happy sociopath.
Not sure what you are referring to as the "disappear point" -I don't think it's a set area - I had battled her clear down to the corner of the houses just down from Silke before we stopped attacking and got the "let me join" dialoge and once the dialoge was over she disappeared in about two steps.
For me, she always disappears when the fence of the mansion is close. I figured there was there was some sort of coordinate/line and beyond that, she'd disappear. I once hit the wizard with Stupifier and he turned yellow and ran south; she followed and I cornered her closer to the Thunderhammer corner. She still walked north, and didn't disappear after a few steps. I then killed her, so I don't know at what point that would have happened. But the further north she is after the fight/dialogue, the sooner she disappears.
Alright, mine isn't exactly the most recent, but it's pretty shocking nevertheless. For the first few years of playing BG I never realised you could recruit Kagain. I know, right? I mean, there was no marker on the map, and the doors to his shop aren't even visible if you don't know where to look. Pretty stupid, huh? I only found out by consulting an online guide about a completely different subject, and saw a map of Beregost with "Kagain's Shop" marker on it. Now I rarely make a party that doesn't utilise his exceptional tanking abilities. Actually, I missed out on a tonne of other stuff as well, especially in Baldur's Gate. I wish I was a bit older in the vanilla days, perhaps I would be able find more stuff on my own. The tempation to just pop Dudleyville open was too strong, and now I have all the secrets, NPC, quests and items committed to memory
I think the newest thing I learned was the location of Evermemory; I've been playing this game for years, but never knew about the Ring of Wizardry until I came to these forums. And so soon, too! It doubles the power of a level 1-2 wizard, and I always play wizard. Best. Secret. Ever.
I was searching for Ring of Wizardry for years. I had heard it existed and once or twice read rumors that it was just outside FAI to the East (and in a tree). Also, there was uncertainty as to whether it continued to be there in further versions of BG. Well, I recently found it in BGEE, but it was in the next map section south of the FAI map. Finally caught up with it, and you're right, it doubles the lvl 1 mage's power.
Also, after playing the game for about 15 years, I had never experienced 3 mages at once in my party. With the Ring of Wizardy, it's as if I had 4. I got to this point playing with a randomized recruitment roll for NPCs to keep the level of uncertainty in the game high. So far, my PC Illusionist managed to recruit, Khalid and Imoen and two additional mages. Well what an experience. So far, all the enemies are going down moments after the encounter starts.
Well, I was going to say I had just learned that slings added Strength to damage (which is fairly new anyway), but now the most recent thing I've learned is now that there is a second Ring of Wizardry in the city proper. I've known about the one by the Friendly Arm for ages now, but I did not realize there was a second one. That'd be really convenient for loading up on Identify spells for Durlag's Tower.
I discovered that you can delve into roleplaying all six characters in the party, with party members developing relationships to one another, and use dice rolls to determine various decisions or to make checks on what they can detect, or what they might decide to do, etc. This, to me, makes it feel like I'm not just playing a computer game, but I'm actually on an adventure that's full of unexpected twists. It gives the game a surprising new level of depth.
It can be done without journaling, but for me that creative writing process is vital to make the details and nuances of the game come to life. So I consider it essential to this approach to the game. The downside is that journaling takes time, and a sense of commitment to see it through.
I still play regular games as well. But I think this is something that I will be doing regularly as long as I continue to enjoy the BG games.
Being drunk in real life and in Baldur's Gate is interesting. It also makes me appreciate how hard it must be to be a mage in BG world. You have a few drinks, think it'll be fun to be super fast and suddenly everyone in the room is dead because you cast fireball.
I'm almost done with my first pt and I noticed a few things this time around that I didn't 'get' the last time I played BG1, which was a long time ago now, right around when BG2 was new. -Fairly sure I never chose the dialogue options to get the crazy spider lady to tell you it was Irenicus that did it to her. -Larry Darryl and Darryl, I got it this time! -I'm sorry, mister talented woodsman, I thought you said your name was Peter of the um... nevermind.
I found out that keeping khalid/jaheira - Monty/xzar, will eventually break into fighting.
More interesting is that after ten reloads the score on who wins the fight is 10 - 0 in Khalid/Jaheira's favor.
All characters were level 2, fully rested with spells available.
Bottom line, if you want the evil to win, you better step in, but then again that ties well with the RP standard for an evil char.
A dagger to the neck while she's busy fighting, hum hum.
Some pre-planning and luck can change the outcome. I usually have monty hiding in shadows while he traverses and one time he got lucky and chunked Khalid with a backstab. Jaheria only had a sling equipped and those -4 sure added up in a hurry.
Regardless of who wins the fight, they're immediately kicked from the party for disrupting my attempt at zen.
I just learned a few moments ago that the skeletons Kryll summons have the names of the characters in the Walking Dead :P Shane, Daryl, Lori, Rick and Glenn
Those last two are BG:EE specific, I believe, but the Jon "Icarus" line's always been in there, you have to charm her first, though.
Larry, Darryl, and Darryl have always been there. The Newhart show that the joke references ran from 1982-1990. Apparently one of the devs was a fan.
You don't have to charm spider lady to get the Jon Icarus lines. You can get it if you have good charisma and choose the right dialogue lines. (Unless maybe one of my mods, like NPC Project, was opening it for me all the times I got the lines. Anyway, I never charmed her, and I got the lines every time I played.)
I recently discovered "Borinole Mann" on the second floor of the Tavern and Inn in NW Baldur's gate, who regaled my party with a most riveting conversation. I was surprised that I hadn't been in there before, being that I've had the game since 1999.
BG has a certain charm that just didn't make into BG2.
In BGEE, I discovered that the nobles staying at Elven Arse Inn in Candlekeep can be tricked to put their jewelry into the tables upstairs and then burglar them if you have an 18 Charisma. Also, that the Dagger+1 from Fuller will be a reward from him if your Charisma is 18 and you don't have to steal it from him. I also learned that the dreams and powers you get are dependent on your reputation. Somehow, I missed to realize. All those years.
...I also learned that there are much more hardcore BG-fans beside me, than I have thought.
I learnt that... when ordering an ankheg armor from Mr. Thunderhammer, if your character has 22 charisma at the time, AND 6000 gp, you can talk the smith into making the armor within just one day, instead of ten. Never happened to me before. Truly, a charming mage with a Friends spell can accomplish nearly anything.
I learnt that... when ordering an ankheg armor from Mr. Thunderhammer, if your character has 22 charisma at the time, AND 6000 gp, you can talk the smith into making the armor within just one day, instead of ten. Never happened to me before. Truly, a charming mage with a Friends spell can accomplish nearly anything.
Actually I don't think charisma comes into play here - I have gotten the same offer from him with much more mundane characters with mediocre charisma - it is new options that are provided in BGEE tho (not in the original where it took ten days no matter what).
Comments
She's a legit target due to having the gem bag, but her trying to talk to you even if you already made clear that you aren't going to help her makes it an unneccesary annoyance. If that could be fixed, I'd be a very happy sociopath.
The Neera problem, and the need to be able to kill her... If I kill her from the distance before talking to her, I do so for one reason: immersion breaker if I do. I will have Edwin in my party, and if the dialogue triggers, I will be faced with the choice: Keep Edwin, turn Neera down, not get essential item (gem bag), not break immersion - or tell Edwin to gtfo, take Neera in party, take gem bag, remove Neera, take Edwin in party again, break immersion into a million tiny little pieces.
If I kill her after the cutscene and fight, I have the same issue with the added immersion breaker of having told Ekandor twice that he can have her, and more than roleplay/head canon evidence that Edwin is aware of the interest in Neera and would try to capture her at this point. It also means taking the risk that she'll walk off before I manage to kill her - immersion breaker no. 108: having to go to FAI to get the gem bag via immersion breaker no. 16 (remove Edwin, take in Neera and so on).
Just let the nameless Red Wizard stand around a bit longer; let me help him to capture Neera and give me the empty gem bag as reward. Makes perfect sense an evil NPC would give me a "worthless" reward, after removing the "treasure" (Neera's quest gems). Voila, poor immersion is on the way to recovery.
This wouldn't even need Edwin-specific lines - any evil party, Edwin-less ones included (blasphemy!) would likely side with the Red Wizards. Lawful evil because hey, the wizards have a point. Neutral evil because oh, a bounty, I get a reward. Chaotic evil because.
For the first few years of playing BG I never realised you could recruit Kagain. I know, right? I mean, there was no marker on the map, and the doors to his shop aren't even visible if you don't know where to look. Pretty stupid, huh? I only found out by consulting an online guide about a completely different subject, and saw a map of Beregost with "Kagain's Shop" marker on it. Now I rarely make a party that doesn't utilise his exceptional tanking abilities.
Actually, I missed out on a tonne of other stuff as well, especially in Baldur's Gate. I wish I was a bit older in the vanilla days, perhaps I would be able find more stuff on my own. The tempation to just pop Dudleyville open was too strong, and now I have all the secrets, NPC, quests and items committed to memory
Best. Secret. Ever.
Also, after playing the game for about 15 years, I had never experienced 3 mages at once in my party. With the Ring of Wizardy, it's as if I had 4. I got to this point playing with a randomized recruitment roll for NPCs to keep the level of uncertainty in the game high. So far, my PC Illusionist managed to recruit, Khalid and Imoen and two additional mages. Well what an experience. So far, all the enemies are going down moments after the encounter starts.
That one I found, but it comes much later. The one outside the Friendly Arm is a game-changer, as you can get it at lvl 1.
It can be done without journaling, but for me that creative writing process is vital to make the details and nuances of the game come to life. So I consider it essential to this approach to the game. The downside is that journaling takes time, and a sense of commitment to see it through.
I still play regular games as well. But I think this is something that I will be doing regularly as long as I continue to enjoy the BG games.
-Fairly sure I never chose the dialogue options to get the crazy spider lady to tell you it was Irenicus that did it to her.
-Larry Darryl and Darryl, I got it this time!
-I'm sorry, mister talented woodsman, I thought you said your name was Peter of the um... nevermind.
More interesting is that after ten reloads the score on who wins the fight is 10 - 0 in Khalid/Jaheira's favor.
All characters were level 2, fully rested with spells available.
Bottom line, if you want the evil to win, you better step in, but then again that ties well with the RP standard for an evil char.
A dagger to the neck while she's busy fighting, hum hum.
Regardless of who wins the fight, they're immediately kicked from the party for disrupting my attempt at zen.
You don't have to charm spider lady to get the Jon Icarus lines. You can get it if you have good charisma and choose the right dialogue lines. (Unless maybe one of my mods, like NPC Project, was opening it for me all the times I got the lines. Anyway, I never charmed her, and I got the lines every time I played.)
BG has a certain charm that just didn't make into BG2.
Also, that the Dagger+1 from Fuller will be a reward from him if your Charisma is 18 and you don't have to steal it from him.
I also learned that the dreams and powers you get are dependent on your reputation. Somehow, I missed to realize. All those years.
...I also learned that there are much more hardcore BG-fans beside me, than I have thought.