But I am glad you made a connection immediately with tired and not wired when you thought about Druids.
They always seem to be played by the 'I am Holier than thou' vegetarians of the world.
(Got nothing against vegetarians who have made a decision for reasons such as taste or dislike eating things that move (we all eat something that was once living). Just the noisy, 'I am better than you! I'm vegan! Well you can replace as much of the rainforest as you want with soya fields, just don't say I care less for the world because I eat lamb raised on the side of mountain where the only thing that grows is grass and moss, gotta love welsh lamb)
When I play a Druid. I play them as meat eating cannibals into human sacrifice... Gets past that vegetable stigma...
Here's my take on it. I like the druid class and druids, and I play them all time, both with my PC and as party members.
They have a different role than clerics. I wouldn't replace a cleric with one. A druid fulfills a useful utility role that resembles that of a cleric-mage, or in Jaheira's case, fighter-cleric-mage. The druid is something you take after your four basic roles (tanking, healing, thieving, and arcane casting) are filled with specialists. The druid's more generalist abilities provide backup and special abilities that you can survive without, but that are awfully nice to have in the party.
People have already mentioned the extremely helpful spells that only druids get: Call Lightning kicks butt in all the wilderness areas of BG1, as well as being useful in early BG2 against Sena Sune and the other ambushes in Amn.
At later levels, Insect Swarm/Plague are very useful against casters. Summon Fire Elemental also kicks some major butt through most of BG2. For a fighter-druid like Jaheira, Iron Skins are also a fantastic power.
Admittedly the first and second level spells are a bit weak, but the beginning druid can back up the cleric with extra healing spells, which are always nice to have available. Plus, having a druid to handle Cure Light Wounds and Slow Poison frees your cleric to memorize Command, Hold Person, and Silence.
The avenger druid gets not only Sword Spider and Fire Salamander (with free magic weapon) forms, but also six of the best mage spells. As added bonuses, the avenger gets to wear leather armor and roll d8 for hit points, which is an advantage over a mage or mage-cleric, and has a better thac0 progression than the mage.
As a further advantage over the cleric or mage-cleric, the druid may also use darts, scimitar, spear, and dagger.
Roleplaying wise, my fantasies of being a druid are heavily influenced by NWN and also WoW. In NWN, Call Lightning works indoors, and is one of the best spells in the game, plus, you get a really good animal companion to fight with you. In NWN2, druids are the only ones who can flame weapons. In WoW, the druid has *extremely* useful forms for travel, water-breathing, flight, and fighting. I also like the WoW roleplay and lore idea that the druids are the defenders of balance in not only nature, but also in magic itself.
Even though the roleplaying ideas I mention are not implemented in BG, I have a very active imagination, and I love to pretend that my good shapeshifting forms from WoW are there in BG.
As for the personalities of the NPC druids, I like them. I love Jaheira, and she's one of my favorite NPC's, because I like strong women. I have some trouble bearing or tolerating weak, wimpy, whiny women. (Sorry, Aerie, I'm talking about you.) I enjoy Cernd's quiet stocism and ability to create a nature simile for every situation. Faldorn is too militaristic and crazy for me, but she seems like she'd fit in well with an evil party.
Their armor selection isn't actually that bad. They can equip Ankheg Armor, and in IWD, Umberhulk Plate.
Their weapon options seem lacking but they aren't simply due to Scimitars being bloody awesome and there are a LOT of good magical Scimitars in BG1 and BGII both.
Druids are like Bards; they fulfill a more generalist role rather than being at the backbone of your team. They are never going to be as offensively powerful as a Mage, and they are never going to be as buff-oriented as a Cleric, but instead they can pull off a little of each, and bring in some unique spells to boot. They serve to support the rest of your team.
Multi-classed Fighter/Druids are always an option, though I can't say I'm a fan because you sacrifice a lot of their spell-casting power in the end.
Dual-classed Druids are always an option, though you must keep in mind that you need a monstrous roll to pull it off. In BG1 alone you can have a Fighter 7 -> Druid 9. You are sacrificing one level of Druid for some awesome fighting strength, which is pretty amazing. Then you take that character into BGII and end up missing out on essentially nothing, so you have a wicked awesome caster-oriented character who can back themselves up with some fighting strength. However, Dual-classing is some seriously meta-gamey stuff. I'm not a huge fan.
The Avenger kit is pretty badass as it makes shapeshifting actually worthwhile, though your armor option goes way down, which is a total bummer. The Shapeshifter kit sucks. The Totemic Druid kit is awesome, since it replaces your shapeshifting with summoning ... which is way better anyway.
Druids play best when you quickly guage the situation and know what you need to do. See three mages? Insect Plague and summon a Fire Elemental. Bunch of archers? Monster Summoning and Ironskins let you heal with some impunity. If you're getting beat down hard buff up and run into the fray.
Dual class ranger/cleric gets everything but druid HLA's
Personally I'd rather be a Fighter dualed to druid. You get 5* on a weapon of your choice before the end of the first game depending on when you dual class. Granted you can't use any kickass warhammer or flails you come across, but given that there are staves in BG2 that benefit your number of memorised spells its still a solid option. Plus by having the fighter dualed part you avoid what is really the most painful aspect of being a druid, their side quests in BG2.
Staves? I'll have to try that out. That's pretty cool, because there are some awesome staves that I've never really been able to take advantage of.
Jahiera, however, can't take 5*, because she's multi-class.
The quarterstaff I was thinking of (bonus spells) you have to buy in BG2. It is sold by one of the bonus merchants. You can get it basically right off the bat if you have the money
Its called the Staff of Arundel and you can buy it from Joluv in the Copper Coronet
Elementals princes and devas are a druids best friend. Insect swarm eliminates annoying mages for a few. Aura of Flaming death helps deal with melee combatants
Ok, I think I can see that. So Druids are more of a generalized character? I like thinking about them as bards--I've never really liked bards either, so maybe this is why. I'm trying to use them as only a fighter, or only a mage.
Doesn't change the way I feel about baby-blanket factories, though, but maybe I have something to work with that will make me tolerate having Jahiera in my party long enough to finish game. Maybe I could even get to like druids. Maybe the sky will turn green? Anything's possible.
Any other advice? Party position? Tactical uses?
Thanks everyone for the good advice despite my rantings.
I have a Wizard Slayer/Druid dual class thats quite fun to play - just charge straight in with shield and scimitar to get combat started, then once the fights begun, cast offensive spells in the thick of it - good vs other cleric/druid types, and a fun class to have in a party (note this guy is part of an all created party - I'd never have a Wiz Slayer as my CHARNAME)
I believe, for the first time in this forum, that i truly found a thread which i totally disagree.
Answering your question: Yes, you don't know how to play a druid, that's pretty obvious. Druids in IWD/IWD2 are better shaped than druids in Baldur's Gate (the better spells on IWD series belong to druids), but even in Baldur's Gate Druids rock.
You're probally new to BG, and your experience with BG kept your spell access to lvl 4 spells probally, specially if you only used jaheira (whom is a multi-class) as a druid. You're probally base your opinion on Holy Smite (lvl 3 priest spell) and raise dead (lvl 3 priest spell). Insect swarm (lvl 3 druid spell) and Call lighting (lvl 3 druid spell) specially in BG EE the last one, cover very well the good priest spells of lvl 3.
To give you a hint, remove XP cap from the game, active CLUAConsole and cheat the level of one of your druid. Take a look on druid spells of level 5/6/7 to see how awesome they are.
The only thing i give credit in complaing about druids, is that the druid kits on BG sucks, vanilla druid is some times better than any of the kits, and the only multi/dual allowed for druids is fighter/druid cos for some reason the devs probally will not implement druid/mage dual/multi (an valid dual/multi combination).
wow man avenger > druid shapeshifter > druid and this totem druid > druid why would you play plain druid when u can have more things? plain druid is only for multi/dual
avenger is like your mage druid shapeshifter is like your effin fighter druid or better
wow man avenger > druid shapeshifter > druid and this totem druid > druid why would you play plain druid when u can have more things? plain druid is only for multi/dual
avenger is like your mage druid shapeshifter is like your effin fighter druid or better
-2 str -2 con, no armor, all to get 6 mage spells options on the spellbook? No ty. Shapeshifter is =/= normal druid, neither better or worse, you can use him as a simple druid in fact with some armor penalities, but in wolf form no spell can be cast and the shifter isn't too powerful to make that worth i think. Totemic is a bit better than vanilla only.
But i'm speaking of vanilla druid, any multi/dual combination suprass by far any of the druid kits, and that's the difference between druid kits and other class kits. Other class kits convince you to open hand of a dual/multi based on the benefits of those classes, druid kits doesn't do it.
oh you are both so wrong but don't worry you probably thought that bard in bg1 was weak like everyone
*dual classed shapeshifter13-14/fighter* druid spells 5stars in quarter staff 10apr with staff of ram with imvproved haste(after dispeling werewolf claws) critical strike 10x80dmg=800 dmg in round nice things from greater werewolf like spell resistance elemental resistance faster movement
*without dual* 6apr with staff of ram with improved haste better druid spells
avenger -2 conc on druid = he can't get benefits from 16 so? -2 str? there is like f tone of items that imprvoe str 6 good spells from mage better than not having them oh and original sword spider form with poison was so awesome -bg1 exp cap = 10 lvl avenger with 5th level spells -bg1 exp cap = fighter/druid only 4th level spells max
so yeah greater werewolf dealing more damage than kensai avenger is better in everything than pure druid
thx for proof that dualed class druid are better than any kit. That was my main point, i just added that vanilla druid was even a slight better or equal to the druid kits.
Kensai mage can play by himself, shapeshifter can't do as well as a kensai/mage.
Avenger get -2 str/con, with 6 mage spells added (good or bad, that's an opinion only)
Unless the sword spider from avenger shift has poison, you raised a wrong statement cos sword spiders doesn't have poison in BG EE.
You use tons of fallacy to make your reasons, as state the spell reach of a single class better than a dual class what is pretty obvious but is compensated by the dualed class advantages, and by the end finish by destroying your very first argument where you praised the shapeshifter/fighter combination.
To end, "thank you for your superior lore, so special sentient being so out of the ordinary mind of other members of this forum".
and that's the difference between druid kits and other class kits. Other class kits convince you to open hand of a dual/multi based on the benefits of those classes, druid kits doesn't do it.
You use tons of fallacy to make your reasons, as state the spell reach of a single class better than a dual class what is pretty obvious but is compensated by the dualed class advantages
iron skin druid > druid without iron skin me thinks
oh you are both so wrong but don't worry you probably thought that bard in bg1 was weak like everyone
*dual classed shapeshifter13-14/fighter* druid spells 5stars in quarter staff 10apr with staff of ram with imvproved haste(after dispeling werewolf claws) critical strike 10x80dmg=800 dmg in round nice things from greater werewolf like spell resistance elemental resistance faster movement
*without dual* 6apr with staff of ram with improved haste better druid spells
avenger -2 conc on druid = he can't get benefits from 16 so? -2 str? there is like f tone of items that imprvoe str 6 good spells from mage better than not having them oh and original sword spider form with poison was so awesome -bg1 exp cap = 10 lvl avenger with 5th level spells -bg1 exp cap = fighter/druid only 4th level spells max
so yeah greater werewolf dealing more damage than kensai avenger is better in everything than pure druid
I'm surprised they never fixed the dispel magic claw thing.
Fun fact they get even more ridiculous offensive spells in Icewind Dale for whatever reason. Gotta love Spike Stones. =P
Came here to say this. Druids in BG/BG2 have a wildly bland spell selection that can't be made up with their other abilities. Their spell selection in IWD has a lot more variety--and frankly, a lot more utility--and Arundel's part in the story is a better exploration of a druid's role than anything offered by Jaheira, Faldorn, or that other guy.
Fun fact they get even more ridiculous offensive spells in Icewind Dale for whatever reason. Gotta love Spike Stones. =P
Came here to say this. Druids in BG/BG2 have a wildly bland spell selection that can't be made up with their other abilities. Their spell selection in IWD has a lot more variety--and frankly, a lot more utility--and Arundel's part in the story is a better exploration of a druid's role than anything offered by Jaheira, Faldorn, or that other guy.
this is so true
in moded baldur's gate there is so much more spells that druid become another caster not half caster shapeshifting hybrid
Hmmmm good to know, can you point me to a download place where the mod is already adapted to BG EE @CamDawg? Probally druid will be my next call on BG EE if i get IWD spells.
The problem is there's no standalone IWD spell pack. Divine Remix adds a bunch; IWD-in-BG2 pretty much adds them all but it's no longer BG2; Galc's Lost Crossroads has some; as does Spell Revisions. Hell, even 1PP slips in a few of the reversed cure spells.
I really don't like druids in any of the IE games. I only take Jahiera along for RP purposes; it's my character that wants her along, I'd just as soon leave her in the Freindly Arm/Iranicus's dungeon.
Druids best spells are ironskin and summon elemental princes.
Ranger/Clerics get ironskin (although they shouldn't really).
Elemental princes are great, but not that much better than devas to make up for the loss of heal, greater restoration, resurrection and various useful clerical buffs.
Tho if you want to go cheesy and keep recharging the rod of resurrection then clerics are pretty much obsolete too!
Comments
With my accent, tired rhymes with wired.
But I am glad you made a connection immediately with tired and not wired when you thought about Druids.
They always seem to be played by the 'I am Holier than thou' vegetarians of the world.
(Got nothing against vegetarians who have made a decision for reasons such as taste or dislike eating things that move (we all eat something that was once living). Just the noisy, 'I am better than you! I'm vegan! Well you can replace as much of the rainforest as you want with soya fields, just don't say I care less for the world because I eat lamb raised on the side of mountain where the only thing that grows is grass and moss, gotta love welsh lamb)
When I play a Druid. I play them as meat eating cannibals into human sacrifice... Gets past that vegetable stigma...
They have a different role than clerics. I wouldn't replace a cleric with one. A druid fulfills a useful utility role that resembles that of a cleric-mage, or in Jaheira's case, fighter-cleric-mage. The druid is something you take after your four basic roles (tanking, healing, thieving, and arcane casting) are filled with specialists. The druid's more generalist abilities provide backup and special abilities that you can survive without, but that are awfully nice to have in the party.
People have already mentioned the extremely helpful spells that only druids get: Call Lightning kicks butt in all the wilderness areas of BG1, as well as being useful in early BG2 against Sena Sune and the other ambushes in Amn.
At later levels, Insect Swarm/Plague are very useful against casters. Summon Fire Elemental also kicks some major butt through most of BG2. For a fighter-druid like Jaheira, Iron Skins are also a fantastic power.
Admittedly the first and second level spells are a bit weak, but the beginning druid can back up the cleric with extra healing spells, which are always nice to have available. Plus, having a druid to handle Cure Light Wounds and Slow Poison frees your cleric to memorize Command, Hold Person, and Silence.
The avenger druid gets not only Sword Spider and Fire Salamander (with free magic weapon) forms, but also six of the best mage spells. As added bonuses, the avenger gets to wear leather armor and roll d8 for hit points, which is an advantage over a mage or mage-cleric, and has a better thac0 progression than the mage.
As a further advantage over the cleric or mage-cleric, the druid may also use darts, scimitar, spear, and dagger.
Roleplaying wise, my fantasies of being a druid are heavily influenced by NWN and also WoW. In NWN, Call Lightning works indoors, and is one of the best spells in the game, plus, you get a really good animal companion to fight with you. In NWN2, druids are the only ones who can flame weapons. In WoW, the druid has *extremely* useful forms for travel, water-breathing, flight, and fighting. I also like the WoW roleplay and lore idea that the druids are the defenders of balance in not only nature, but also in magic itself.
Even though the roleplaying ideas I mention are not implemented in BG, I have a very active imagination, and I love to pretend that my good shapeshifting forms from WoW are there in BG.
As for the personalities of the NPC druids, I like them. I love Jaheira, and she's one of my favorite NPC's, because I like strong women. I have some trouble bearing or tolerating weak, wimpy, whiny women. (Sorry, Aerie, I'm talking about you.) I enjoy Cernd's quiet stocism and ability to create a nature simile for every situation. Faldorn is too militaristic and crazy for me, but she seems like she'd fit in well with an evil party.
So that's my two cents.
Their weapon options seem lacking but they aren't simply due to Scimitars being bloody awesome and there are a LOT of good magical Scimitars in BG1 and BGII both.
Druids are like Bards; they fulfill a more generalist role rather than being at the backbone of your team. They are never going to be as offensively powerful as a Mage, and they are never going to be as buff-oriented as a Cleric, but instead they can pull off a little of each, and bring in some unique spells to boot. They serve to support the rest of your team.
Multi-classed Fighter/Druids are always an option, though I can't say I'm a fan because you sacrifice a lot of their spell-casting power in the end.
Dual-classed Druids are always an option, though you must keep in mind that you need a monstrous roll to pull it off. In BG1 alone you can have a Fighter 7 -> Druid 9. You are sacrificing one level of Druid for some awesome fighting strength, which is pretty amazing. Then you take that character into BGII and end up missing out on essentially nothing, so you have a wicked awesome caster-oriented character who can back themselves up with some fighting strength. However, Dual-classing is some seriously meta-gamey stuff. I'm not a huge fan.
The Avenger kit is pretty badass as it makes shapeshifting actually worthwhile, though your armor option goes way down, which is a total bummer.
The Shapeshifter kit sucks.
The Totemic Druid kit is awesome, since it replaces your shapeshifting with summoning ... which is way better anyway.
Doesn't change the way I feel about baby-blanket factories, though, but maybe I have something to work with that will make me tolerate having Jahiera in my party long enough to finish game. Maybe I could even get to like druids. Maybe the sky will turn green? Anything's possible.
Any other advice? Party position? Tactical uses?
Thanks everyone for the good advice despite my rantings.
but i like them
shape shif ting like a boss
summon (elemental)prince like a boss
insect swarm like a boss
in icewind dale 1 druid owns so maybe you should try
Answering your question: Yes, you don't know how to play a druid, that's pretty obvious. Druids in IWD/IWD2 are better shaped than druids in Baldur's Gate (the better spells on IWD series belong to druids), but even in Baldur's Gate Druids rock.
You're probally new to BG, and your experience with BG kept your spell access to lvl 4 spells probally, specially if you only used jaheira (whom is a multi-class) as a druid. You're probally base your opinion on Holy Smite (lvl 3 priest spell) and raise dead (lvl 3 priest spell). Insect swarm (lvl 3 druid spell) and Call lighting (lvl 3 druid spell) specially in BG EE the last one, cover very well the good priest spells of lvl 3.
To give you a hint, remove XP cap from the game, active CLUAConsole and cheat the level of one of your druid. Take a look on druid spells of level 5/6/7 to see how awesome they are.
The only thing i give credit in complaing about druids, is that the druid kits on BG sucks, vanilla druid is some times better than any of the kits, and the only multi/dual allowed for druids is fighter/druid cos for some reason the devs probally will not implement druid/mage dual/multi (an valid dual/multi combination).
avenger > druid
shapeshifter > druid
and this totem druid > druid
why would you play plain druid when u can have more things? plain druid is only for multi/dual
avenger is like your mage druid
shapeshifter is like your effin fighter druid or better
Druid > Shapeshifter (thanks to Ankheg armor)
Shapeshifter is =/= normal druid, neither better or worse, you can use him as a simple druid in fact with some armor penalities, but in wolf form no spell can be cast and the shifter isn't too powerful to make that worth i think.
Totemic is a bit better than vanilla only.
But i'm speaking of vanilla druid, any multi/dual combination suprass by far any of the druid kits, and that's the difference between druid kits and other class kits. Other class kits convince you to open hand of a dual/multi based on the benefits of those classes, druid kits doesn't do it.
*dual classed shapeshifter13-14/fighter*
druid spells
5stars in quarter staff
10apr with staff of ram with imvproved haste(after dispeling werewolf claws)
critical strike
10x80dmg=800 dmg in round
nice things from greater werewolf like spell resistance elemental resistance faster movement
*without dual*
6apr with staff of ram with improved haste
better druid spells
avenger
-2 conc on druid = he can't get benefits from 16 so?
-2 str? there is like f tone of items that imprvoe str
6 good spells from mage better than not having them
oh and original sword spider form with poison was so awesome
-bg1 exp cap = 10 lvl avenger with 5th level spells
-bg1 exp cap = fighter/druid only 4th level spells max
so yeah greater werewolf dealing more damage than kensai
avenger is better in everything than pure druid
Kensai mage can play by himself, shapeshifter can't do as well as a kensai/mage.
Avenger get -2 str/con, with 6 mage spells added (good or bad, that's an opinion only)
Unless the sword spider from avenger shift has poison, you raised a wrong statement cos sword spiders doesn't have poison in BG EE.
You use tons of fallacy to make your reasons, as state the spell reach of a single class better than a dual class what is pretty obvious but is compensated by the dualed class advantages, and by the end finish by destroying your very first argument where you praised the shapeshifter/fighter combination.
To end, "thank you for your superior lore, so special sentient being so out of the ordinary mind of other members of this forum".
in moded baldur's gate there is so much more spells that druid become another caster not half caster shapeshifting hybrid
some not really good but some epic spells and definitly upgrade for clerics/druids
Ranger/Clerics get ironskin (although they shouldn't really).
Elemental princes are great, but not that much better than devas to make up for the loss of heal, greater restoration, resurrection and various useful clerical buffs.
Tho if you want to go cheesy and keep recharging the rod of resurrection then clerics are pretty much obsolete too!