Anyone else dislike druids?

mashedtaters

I like Jaheira and all, but man...I just really, really dislike druids (any combination). I would never have allowed one in my party if it wasn't for Jahiera, and even then it was just long enough to get through the romance. I actually couldn't quite edit: finish it.

Maybe I just don't know how to make the best use of druid abilities? It just seems that a cleric is superior in every way...including the Viconia romance. The only thing I could see in a druid is possibly shapeshifting, but it's so nerfed that I have a hard time taking the hit to my party when righteous magic works just as well.

Anyone have any disimilar experiences to share? I would LIKE to like druids (stupid little tree huggers), but I'm just not feeling the love. Anyone got any ideas on how to best implement Jaheira or another druid into your party?

Thanks in advance!

Sorry in advance if anyone here is, indeed, a tree-hugger. You're not stupid. Or little. Maybe little, I don't know. But not stupid. Just a tree hugger. anyways...

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kilivitz

Druids play a little differently in the sense they get more offensive spells than the Cleric. It all comes down to whether you prefer your priest to be a full-time healer/buffer or to cause a little more damage via spells.

ajwz

There is no in game reason for their xp chart to be nerfed so heavily starting at level 13.

It all comes down to some stupid lore issue about 2nd ed druids becoming grove leaders at level 14.

[Deleted User]

Druids get some fun spells at higher levels, but I'm with you on generally preferring Clerics. My Druids are usually Fighter/Druids so that they have something useful to do apart from their spells, but that just makes that xp chart gap even more onerous.

Lore-wise, there are things I like about the concept of a nature priest, but the way D&D tends to overlay the modern conception of a civilization vs. nature dichotomy on a medieval fantasy setting just doesn't sit right with me.

Tresset

Samus said:

No. I rather like druids, animals and nature in general. In BG though, other than Jaheira, the recruitable druids do little for me in terms of their personality...

@Samus Really? I love animals and nature too! Of course loving animals means different things to different people. Most people who say they love animals simply get a cat/dog or go bird watching in the park. I'm the kind who enjoys running around in swamps and ponds looking for reptiles and amphibians or "herps" as they are often called. I am almost always alone when I do this... not sure why...

What? Druids? Oh, right. Well in my opinion they have the worst spell selection but the few good spells they have in there make them useful in just about any party. Also they make great backup healers (because they have nothing better to do...).

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

secretmantra

Insect Plague alone makes Druids useful. Spellcaster interrupts for the win.

Plus they get to play that cool "maintain the Balance" role, which is interesting to contemplate as you smash faces.

mashedtaters

Kaigen said:

Lore-wise, there are things I like about the concept of a nature priest, but the way D&D tends to overlay the modern conception of a civilization vs. nature dichotomy on a medieval fantasy setting just doesn't sit right with me.

Oh my holy cow. I agree with you so much it hurts my brain.

mashedtaters

Kilivitz said:

Druids play a little differently in the sense they get more offensive spells than the Cleric. It all comes down to whether you prefer your priest to be a full-time healer/buffer or to cause a little more damage via spells.

But it just seems that the lack of weapon and armor selection, combined with the loss of useful spells like restoration, doesn't make up for the small bit of extra fire power. If I'm going to do damage via magic, I'm going to bring in a mage.

Clerics still get awesome firepower spells like flamestrike. I know it's not available until later levels, but there are wands of the heavens everywhere in bg.

Kilivitz

mashedtaters said:

But it just seems that the lack of weapon and armor selection, combined with the loss of useful spells like restoration, doesn't make up for the small bit of extra fire power. If I'm going to do damage via magic, I'm going to bring in a mage.

Good point. I think the priest weapon restrictions according to Rules As Written is one of the flaws of AD&D.

With that said, I suppose the Druid shapeshifting is meant to compensate for the lack of options. Me, I just wish they could use bows. Or maybe to see scythes implemented in BG.

mashedtaters

secretmantra said:

Insect Plague alone makes Druids useful. Spellcaster interrupts for the win.

Plus they get to play that cool "maintain the Balance" role, which is interesting to contemplate as you smash faces.

I've never used insect plague on spellcasters. Duh, me. I'll have to get Jaheira to do that for me sometime.

I'm afraid the balance thing of druids always got on my nerves. Feel free to ignore the large rant below, and honestly I mean no offense...BUT...

If druids are so up in arms about balance, how come they give trees and animals such preferential treatment in a underdeveloped, uncivilized, non-industrial age world that's teeming with wildernesses and mountains as far as the eye can see? It's not like the real world, where there are droves of bulldozers knocking at the grove's front door, eating precious tropical forest resources! Where's the balance in denying peasant farmers the right to eat so that a couple hundred trees, out of millions of acres-worth of trees, can continue their serene, boring lives? What if I wanted to start a factory to put people to work making baby-blankets? Ohhh boy, Jaheira would be livid! What's she got against baby blankets, anyways???

Huh? Huh?? HUH????


Ahem. I got a little bit emotional there. *deep breaths*
It's a good thing druids aren't real, or I might have to start a lobbyist campaign against them.

Anyways, back to contemplating face smashing. What's the best way to use a druid in your party? I would really like to give Jaheira a fair shot and actually finish the game with her in my party.

mashedtaters

Tresset said:

@Samus Really? I love animals and nature too! Of course loving animals means different things to different people. Most people who say they love animals simply get a cat/dog or go bird watching in the park. I'm the kind who enjoys running around in swamps and ponds looking for reptiles and amphibians or "herps" as they are often called. I am almost always alone when I do this... not sure why....

I have a dog.

Awong124

I don't really like druids, especially Jaheira. I wouldn't mind playing a druid as my PC, but most other druids in the game are annoying and I try to kill them all.

Quartz

No, trust me, there are plenty of Druid haters out there who INSIST that Clerics are better in every way.

They're wrong, mind you, but that's another story.

If you try to play a Druid the same way as a Cleric of course they are going to suck. Think of them as a third magic type ... sure they are both Divine spell casters but honestly you're better off if you dis-associate Druids and Clerics. They play pretty damn differently.

Tyranus

Ranger/Clerics are the best Druids.

I like Avengers, and I almost always take Jaheria along with me on my good playthroughs (she's a beast with the right equipment). Call Woodland Beings, Ironskins, Fire Elementals, Insect Plague, all awesome spells; it's unfortunate that you don't get most of them until late BG1/BG2

Anduin

Lets Look at this backwards...

Druid = Diurd

Mage = Egam

Rogue = Eugor

Cleric = Cielc

If you notice Diurd rhymes with turd...

I think this is obviously telling...

Tresset

Awong124 said:

I don't really like druids, especially Jaheira. I wouldn't mind playing a druid as my PC, but most other druids in the game are annoying and I try to kill them all.

@Awong124 You try to kill a lot of the NPC's though...

elminster

Anduin said:

Lets Look at this backwards...

Druid = Diurd

If you notice Diurd rhymes with turd...

I think this is obviously telling...

Diurd would be pronounced Di-Urd.

So it would rhyme with tired.

ajwz

Iron skins and insect plague are pretty good though.

Quartz

Fun fact they get even more ridiculous offensive spells in Icewind Dale for whatever reason. Gotta love Spike Stones. =P

Dantos4

I much prefer Ranger/Clerics or Ranger ->Cleric dual classes as I believe both get access to all druid AND cleric spells, although I am not 100% on the dual class version, it has been a while. This takes advantage of things like Ironskins, whilst also getting access to a different HLA selection.

Druids are fun to play in a roleplay sense and as a bit of novelty. They're not amazing from a powergamering perspective. However, Storm of Vengeance is a great spell, as are the elemental princes.

elminster

Dual class ranger/cleric gets everything but druid HLA's

Personally I'd rather be a Fighter dualed to druid. You get 5* on a weapon of your choice before the end of the first game depending on when you dual class. Granted you can't use any kickass warhammer or flails you come across, but given that there are staves in BG2 that benefit your number of memorised spells its still a solid option. Plus by having the fighter dualed part you avoid what is really the most painful aspect of being a druid, their side quests in BG2.

mashedtaters

Quartz said:

No, trust me, there are plenty of Druid haters out there who INSIST that Clerics are better in every way.

They're wrong, mind you, but that's another story.

If you try to play a Druid the same way as a Cleric of course they are going to suck. Think of them as a third magic type ... sure they are both Divine spell casters but honestly you're better off if you dis-associate Druids and Clerics. They play pretty damn differently.

So how do you play druids? They're not healers, powerful spell casters, fighters, sneakers, or ranged attackers. I'm kind of lost on how to use them, that's why I started this post.

Plus I like to vent about them.

mashedtaters

Quartz said:

If you try to play a Druid the same way as a Cleric of course they are going to suck. Think of them as a third magic type ... sure they are both Divine spell casters but honestly you're better off if you dis-associate Druids and Clerics. They play pretty damn differently.

Their weapon proficiencies selection and armor selection are terrible. 'Nuff said.

They have some powerful high-level spells, but mage and sorcerer spells are so much better--plus it takes way too long for them to bring out their awesome spells. By that time, your mage and cleric maxed their spell level out last chapter.

You can play a multi-class druid/fighter, like Jaheira, but that just makes the XP loss higher than any other class. While your 20th level mage is destroying people, your 15th/16th level druid/fighter is trying to not die.

They don't backstab or open locks, and their ranged attacks are the same as a cleric or wizard.

Their ability to cast cure light wounds doesn't make up for the fact that they can't restore lost levels or remove curses or paralysis. That's why I've indicated that it feels like you have two clerics, but one of them is weaker. I agree when you say that they are not clerics--it's impossible to play them like one, anyway.

So, @Quartz, when you play a druid, how do you use them? How do you take advantage of their...whatever it is?

mashedtaters

Tyranus said:

I like Avengers, and I almost always take Jaheria along with me on my good playthroughs (she's a beast with the right equipment). Call Woodland Beings, Ironskins, Fire Elementals, Insect Plague, all awesome spells; it's unfortunate that you don't get most of them until late BG1/BG2

Are you talking about druid-specific equipment? Because anyone is awesome with the right equipment (except for Garrick...and Cernd...hey, another druid! what a coincidence!!)

mashedtaters

Dantos4 said:

I much prefer Ranger/Clerics or Ranger ->Cleric dual classes as I believe both get access to all druid AND cleric spells, although I am not 100% on the dual class version, it has been a while. This takes advantage of things like Ironskins, whilst also getting access to a different HLA selection.

Druids are fun to play in a roleplay sense and as a bit of novelty. They're not amazing from a powergamering perspective. However, Storm of Vengeance is a great spell, as are the elemental princes.

I definitely agree with the ranger/cleric.

I am not much of a powergamer. I love BG because of the roleplaying aspects--games that only center around becoming more powerful, like diablo, are fun at first, but they don't keep me coming back.

That being said, for the role-playing aspect of druids, see my rant above.

BTW, clerics can cast storm of vengeance--that's how I know it's an awesome spell. Plus they can cast it way sooner.

mashedtaters

elminster said:

Dual class ranger/cleric gets everything but druid HLA's

Personally I'd rather be a Fighter dualed to druid. You get 5* on a weapon of your choice before the end of the first game depending on when you dual class. Granted you can't use any kickass warhammer or flails you come across, but given that there are staves in BG2 that benefit your number of memorised spells its still a solid option. Plus by having the fighter dualed part you avoid what is really the most painful aspect of being a druid, their side quests in BG2.

Staves? I'll have to try that out. That's pretty cool, because there are some awesome staves that I've never really been able to take advantage of.

Jahiera, however, can't take 5*, because she's multi-class.

mashedtaters

Ok, so far we have insect plague, ironskins, call wodland beings (sumon monster?), and 5* in staves (for PC druids ONLY). And very late, but cool, high-level spells.

So...I'm not feeling that hopeful.

Maybe I should rephrase my question.

What purpose do druids serve in the party, that isn't served by other classes?
What purpose do druids serve in the party that would merit giving up a that 6th spot, or even making them your 2nd or 3rd choice?

ajwz

I always feel guilty when I memorise mass cure light wounds with a druid instead of summon woodland beings.

But sometimes summoning a nymph when the party needs a good healing just feels so clunky.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.