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If Abdel Adrian never existed...

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  • KilivitzKilivitz Member Posts: 1,459
    The Skald's actually supposed to be a little better in combat than the other Bards (except the Blade) - he even gets a +1 to all attacks.

    It's also true that his song is a bit more powerful than the vanilla Bard's, so ultimately it's a decision between having him support your group via fighting or singing.

    The penalty to Pick Pocket, IMHO, is there to to establish him as a less sneaky and more imposing adventurer. He is inspired by Norse mythology, after all.
  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    If Abdel never existed.... Hmmmm.... Guess there would've been some decent books to read then...
  • GemHoundGemHound Member Posts: 801
    edited April 2013
    I can't honestly say anything about the books, since I avoided them, a novelization of a game like this is nearly impossible, and would be horrendous indeed. Too much would have to be cut out, and the author would probably pick an annoying character.
  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566

    The movie would also likely feature a heavily sexualized Imoen, an extraordinarily sexualized Tamoko who repeatedly attempts to seduce CHARNAME, Khalid and Jaheira being merged together into one character to make things easier, and a straight-to-DVD sequel which features Irenicus as a bumbling villain who is consistently thwarted by the zany antics of Boo and his animal friends.

    Sadly, the most realistic post in this thread.

    I support a Bard charname. A little different from the usual Overly Manly Man stereotype in movies.
  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    In regards to the actual question, I've always thought of the protagonist as being a sorcerer. Either human, elven or half-elven. While Bhaal was LE, I believe Charname would be CG because Gorion taught Charname to be kind and considerate towards others. But Bhaal's taint pushes him towards chaos as the story progresses and the taint begins to consume him. This is how his magic as a sorcerer evolves and how he gains his special abilities.
  • SniiiimonSniiiimon Member Posts: 153
    If Abdel Adrian never existed, I would've been a happier man.

    And Tough Tess should totally be the canon charname. Just saying.
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    In my experience, Charname (who I found conveniently named Chenamar) is factually a human chaotic neutral bard. A particularly clumsy one, his spells suffering from frequent surges of wild magic and his screechy voice so insufferable that, should he sing a song in battle, both his allies and his opponents likely run away in fear. He is a rather capable fencer and marksman, however, thanks to his agility. Soon after the death of Gorion, he seeks guidance from a powerful star elf lawful neutral diviner who becomes, somewhat, his new foster father. Seemingly liberated from Harper schemes, Charname finds himself travelling widely across the Sword Coast and beyond, only to find that he is being hunted not only by the Iron Throne but also by those who dub themselves the friends of Gorion. Amongst some notable events are a magical duel of epic proportions between a certain Chosen of Mystra and Charname's mage companion (also a Chosen; of which deity, I shall not reveal as it is unknown to Charname) as well as a trial of swordsmanship between Charname and a famous scimitar-wielding drow adventurer. And all the other stuff Charnames usually do.
    [a lot of fascinating stuff I wish I had time to narrate]
    And, in the end, Charname is facing a dilemma. Should he decide to accept the legacy of his god father, he would expose himself to forces thoroughly evil, of the likes he likely could not oppose by himself. However, denying it he would betray the trust of his star elf friend (a gift rare indeed, for mithral elves are rather xenophobic), who expects him to ascend to godhood in order to establish... order.
    Charname eventually follows his mentor's advice. Yet he never becomes god. His ascension is interrupted by an avatar of Cyric named Tiax. Basically, Bhaal is destroyed, Cyric embraces what's left of him and Charname's brains are spilled on the floor. And the star elf diviner has some serious business somewhere in the North. In the Icewind Dale. Again.

    Well, looooong story short, that was my most enjoyable playthrough so far. And, as such, I consider it canon.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    And you *are* @God, therefore there isn't much leeway to disagree with you on these matters.
  • Magnus_GrelichMagnus_Grelich Member Posts: 361
    edited April 2013
    I absolutely abhorred the very notion of Abdel. Who wrote the book again? They should be hanged publicly.

    As for the whole 'evil character' thing, always seemed pretty stupid to me, and I've never really understood why people choose to be in the game. Personally, I think it says a lot about a person if they make their character a total dick "because Bhaal hurr!". I've always preferred making a neutral/chaotic good character, and playing in such a way that makes them seem like they're constantly aware of something being different with them, but managing to resist the temptation of living up to their father's name, because they see it mirrored in the faces of their siblings; first Sarevok and later, the five. It's a reminder to them what will happen if they take the easy road.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    It's not like the game leaves you THAT many options to be evil and "not a total dick". You can be "smart evil" to a point, but a lot of it is in your head since the evil dialogue options assume you are an immature brat. There are very few "middle ground" options.
    However, it's equally unrealistic to assume a relatively sheltered person would immediately rush to help each and every stranger who makes claims about monsters stealing their possessions, while being hunted by assassins and presumably travelling in unknown areas. Charname may know the lands from books and tales, but it's a different matter to read about a place and to actually be there. No-one steps up to be a hero under these circumstances, right after a traumatic loss, no less.

    It doesn't make more sense to play a good character "because HERO hurr!" than playing an evil jerk "because Bhaal hurr!" - it's both over the top. (And being neutral because it would make the most sense doesn't line up with the logic of being the driving force of the events; a charname who shrugs and says "not my business" about everything isn't driving much.)
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    edited April 2013
    @KidCarnival @Magnus_Grelich Exactly. Personally I always felt that the character could be played neutral up to a point. Someone who is attempting to resist her/her blood. A number of events, great, traumatic and otherwise happen to CHARNAME over the course of all the games and expansions. I believe many of these could culminate into the alignment change which you succumb to in the 'hell trials'.

    Just because CHARNAME doesn't start off evil, doesn't mean he can't end up evil. I personally believe very few people/characters are born wicked. It takes powerful events to change them.

    Examples: **spoilers**

    1) Death of Gorion (revenge)
    2) Yoshimo's betrayal (loss of trust)
    3) Constantly being hunted, kidnapped, abused and tortured (wrath)
    4) Power (hell trials, greed)
    5) Viconia's influence (if romanced - lust)

    ...the above are just to name a few, but if you look at them all objectively these are all reason enough to substantiate a downward spiral into evil. The Neitzsche quote at the beginning of BG is my inspiration for playing this character as my own 'canon' CHARNAME.

    Besides, starting at Neutral allows you to ignore some of the more immature and sadistic evil dialogue. I found that evil dialogue becomes more interesting and believable towards the end of SoA and ToB... (Also I love some of the more 'fun' dialogue throughout the game).
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    The main story should role on but the NPCs give the extra bit of flavour. If the books were re-written I would try and include them all...

    The Canon party I believe should be...

    1) Anduin - Greatest bathrobe wearer on the planet award winner 2012-2013

    2) Imoen - Bit of a flirt with Anduin... Until truths are revealed (a bit like Leia kissing luke in Star Wars...) They bump into...

    3) Xar, who should only be in the party until the friendly arm inn where...
    4) Montaron recognises Jaheria as a Harper and Jaheria smells Zhents. After a bungled attempt on Anduins life, they both flee so that...
    5) Jaheria and...
    6) Khalid can join you all the way to Nashkell. Where you meet...

    7) Minsc. Who you agree to help. Jaheria and Khalid, disagree that this is foolishness and disappear to solve the riddle on their own whilst you go to save Dynahier, who is also being hunted by a mage that joins your group his name is...
    8) Edwin who on seeing
    9) Dynheir, blasts her into little chunks. Minsc and Edwin leave the area battling with spells being slung and swords used in a most dangerous manner... Imoen and Anduin listen to Dynaheir's dying wish that you look after Minsc, but without a Minsc to look after wander back to Bergost to regroup... You bump into...

    10) Kivan. He is a silent unsmiling character. He constantly disappears then returns to the group constantly just in time to put an arrow through a bandits ass. You also bump into...
    11) Kagain, who flirts with Imoen, carries all her equipment and generally doffs his helmet to her in social-able exchanges. This only makes Imoen jump into the arms of...
    12) Garrick, who woos Imoen. They share moment of passion in Nashkel. Kagain is left to rage in jealousy... After defeating the Orc, Mulahey, in which Garrick saves Imoen from death, Kagain throws his axe into the back of Garrick. Kagain demands Anduin from Imoen, who refuses, he grabs a strange purple sword from the treasure found and attempts to plunge it into Anduins heart. The sword blasts Kagains arm from his body. Holding the stump of his arm he vows revenge and disappears into the mines darkness...

    13) Xan, doomed to be number 13 explains what happened and that the blade is a moonblade and after a tearful goodbye between Garrick and Imoen, you bury Garrick and Imoens love and escape... You bump into a statue of...

    14) Branwen, who you rescue. She heals your party but forms a bond with Kivan whos heart is also healed. Branwen has lost her family from being in stone form for so long, Kivan his wife... Kivan actually smiles. You go to the bandit camp, at which point Branwen is slain saving Kivan... Kivan also leaves the party, carrying the body of Branwen into the forest. Silently plotting vengence... This leaves Xan, Imoen and Anduin to journey to the mines. On the way they meet...

    15) Coran, who is happy go lucky chap that cheers the gloom ridden group... Also...
    16) Eldoth, who is actually not wanted in the group, but follows and speaks against...
    17) Faldorn, who you pick up to lead you through the forest... Eldoth warns Anduin that Faldorn wants to kill Coran for hunting Wyverns... And on finding the Wyverns... Faldorn changes sides and sets a veritable host of wyverns onto the group... Eldoth saves Xan, who would have been doomed without him, and is fully welcomed into the group. Faldorn is slain and they venture into the mines and find...

    18) Yeslick... Who Imoen is wary of after Kagain. Yeslick promises to prove his worth to Imoen and becomes her father / protector figure. The group venture to Baldur's gate where at the urging of Eldoth, they go straight on to save...
    19) Skie... Eldoth and Skie have a lot of catching up to do... Eldoth and Skie whilst agreeing to a crime spree including blackmail, promise to aid the group in the future... Coran, also gets a surprise when he finds out his child is in danger. The group save the day, but Coran takes time out with his daughter... You meet and also leaves the group... Xan, bemoans that the group is doomed without more clerics. Luckily the group bump into...

    20) Tiax, who wants to rule all and another gnome named...
    21) Quayle, Both of them bicker... Anduin has just about had it with Tiax and Quayle and Ankhegs on a trip back to the friendly arm when suddenly...
    22) Ajantis, appears and smites both. Shocked with a sudden abundance of dead gnome, the party confront the Paladin who explains that at least one of the Gnomes was a follower of Cyric and that Cyric is evil. The group are unsure about Ajantis, the uneasiness is put under more strain when Ajantis hands a letter from Jaheria... She is following other clues and urges you onwards... Ajantis stays with the group and the group bump into...
    23) Shar-Teel, who slays Ajantis in combat. She is about to lay into Anduin after proving the prowess of females over males, when Imoen puts an arrow through her eye. Onwards and upwards... The group bumps into...

    24) Viconia, who instantly goes under Anduin's wing for protection. A strained romance starts... But is made more awkward by the sudden appearence of...
    25) Safana, who now becomes Anduins favourite... After a romantic tryst in the night Anduin is awoken by screams. Viconia has slain Safana! Viconia, attempts to explain that Safana was stealing from the group... Imoen and Xan are about to send Viconia back to Shar, when suddenly she casts a blinding light and disappears into the forest. Anduin finds stolen belongings on Safana, proclaiming her innocence... Saddened, they continue until in the hall of wonders they meet...

    26) Alora who believes that she can guide the group through the thieves maze with her lucky rabbits foot... She dies instantly from a spiked pit trap... Luckily, Eldoth and Skie turn up, although they do not join the group they give a map to the adventurers and wish them well... Along with Coran, who turns up to wish the group well and to pass on news that an Elf was looking for them.

    Anduin, Imoen, Yeslick and Xan stumble upon the ruins of the temple of Bhaal. They muster themselves to enter when the crack of thunder and the chime of sword on metal can be heard. Edwin and Minsc are fighting in the bowels of Baldur's Gate! Edwin runs into the temple. Screaming his vengence at the sky Minsc runs into the temple followed by the Group...

    Only to be confronted by Kagain, who is shocked. It conspires he has used a hold person spell on Minsc who now stands frozen before him. Edwin smiles his thanks and leaves the temple. Kagain, with half a zombiefied arm attached, throws his axe into the group and Imoen receives a glancing blow. Yeslick steps up and saves Imoen, but in killing Kagain is mortally wounded. Yeslick and Imoen share a tearful farewell as Yeslick, last of his Clan dies... EPIC! Okay where was I... As the dwarf dies an evil chuckle comes from the gloom... Saveoursock has been warned of your coming by Kagain, in return for whatever spells he used against the group!

    Saveoursock and his well prepared militants let loose an armageddon of spells against the group... All is lost... Xan dies... Imoen lies unconcious and Anduin, weaponless, inches his way across the temple floor towards Xan. To all extents and purposes they are left bleeding and bereft on the temple floor.

    Saveoursock, disappointed in how easily his brother is defeated steps forward to finish it. Kivan appears as an avenging shadow and takes out all the protagonists with his arrows... Shouting the names of his fallen kin as each arrow flies... Abandoning his bow, and shouting "For Branwen!", he thrust his spear through the body of the evil mage, he turns only to be picked up by the neck by Saveoursock. Who throws his body like a rag doll against the walls of the temple.

    Meanwhile Minsc, awakens from the spell cast upon him. He screams his pain at the temple roof. Kivan, broken pleas to Minsc not to make the same mistake as him. Save the living, don't avenge the dead, the dead will never thank you for it. Minsc, stares at Kivan before resting his eyes on Saveoursock, who throws Kivan against the wall above the altar. Calmly, Minsc turns his back on them both and leaves the temple. Squeaks can be heard...

    Saveoursock, picks up Kivan and pins him to the altar with his own spear, demanding his name. Kivan gives it and the name of his love that Saveoursock unwittingly killed. He smiles as he joins her... Saveoursock is momentarily stunned...

    "Sword meet Evil, EVIL MEET MY SWORD! RAAARRRGH!" Saveoursock's helmet is sent flying, the second thrust disarms him. The third strike is caught in Saveoursocks hands, who twists the blade and breaks it in half. Minsc, throws himself forward and grabs armour, pulls and twist, ripping away Saveoursocks pauldron. He kicks again and Saveoursock is on his back, Minsc runs forward to take advantage but Saveoursock returns the favour by rolling back onto his feet and ripping Minsc's own armour away. The mighty warriors wrestle to a standstill, arms clenched around each others throats, muscles taut and bare to the unearthly light of the temple. Minsc weakens first, and is forced down onto his knees. Saveoursock cries out in triumph and breaks hold to land a titanic blow to Minsc's head. Minsc does not fall. Another blow, armoured hand against naked skull, the crack of which resounds through the temple. Minsc stands taller, starts to smile. "I WILL BE LAST!" Saveoursock grabs Minsc and throws him against the altar, smashing it. Stooping to pick up his sword and then carrying it aloft, its tip pointing downwards to Minsc's heart he cries "and you WILL go first"

    "Not today Brother..." Anduin plunges the Moonblade between Saveoursocks shoulderblades. Saveoursock stares in shock at the blade that has appeared in front of him through his chest. The blade crackles with arcane might as it sends the killer of it's master to the void... Saveoursock fades as his flesh withers from his bones and his skeleton becomes ash...

    Anduin collapses... He awakes as Jaheria and Khalid explain how they retrieved you from the crypt... Imoen and Minsc are the only other survivors from the battle with Saveoursock...

    ...

    Okay this turned into something else halfway through... I just couldn't stop. This is a story plan... How can anyone make a piece of literature based on this story WITHOUT it being crap is beyond me...
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    @kilivitz

    Actually the Skald is the 2nd best melee bard kit (after the Gallant (which is basically a Cavalier with slightly worse thac0, arcane spells instead of holy, and slightly different bonuses)).

    The Blade is supposed to be a general combat support character (he's described as more circus performer then a warrior (though dressed to be as intemidating as possible), since his actual combat skills are lacking....and instead tries to bluff the enemies with displays of skill at blade-handling or using thrown weapons to pin-point effect), who can make called shots with thrown weapons to debilitate enemies, and most of his skills are meant to tie up (defensive spin (Gives an ac bonus and forces enemies to save per attack or take damage equal to half the blade's level, but any successful hit disrupts it)) or demoralize the enemies (Weapon display buffs allies (+1 hit, +2 morale) and debuffs enemies (-1 hit, -2 morale) slightly (for as long as he maintains the display, but taking damage ends it, and can only be used once per encounter, since it's just not as impressive a 2nd time), and offensive spin is a next hit, no save fear that only works if the enemy hasn't damaged the blade), but has no song, no counter-song, no lore, no casting from scrolls or wands ever, same gear restrictions as a plain bard and a penalty to learning spells (15% penalty). The fact he has the equivalent of maxed two weapon style for free (0/-2) is of little consequence, since he doesn't actually get any direct combat bonuses (and any rogue can eventually be just as good...and the blade still has to spend 2 points in Two weapon if he wants to dual-wield same size weapons).

    The Skald on the other hand, gets his constant +1 hit/damage, + the effects of his song, which he is able to sing while fighting, and has much better access to armor (any helm, shield, or up to plate (but not Full-plate) a fighter can wear). Though his caster level suffers a little, being 1 level behind a normal bard, and taking awhile to unlock the ability to cast from scrolls/wands, and taking a huge penalty (30%) to learning spells. (and his read languages skill gets a -50 penalty, due to being illiterate (they come from cultures with oral traditions) till at least level 2 and has to be raised via skill points manually)

    They also get scroll and wand use...eventually...and do have a lore ability, but it only applies to items used in battle (weapons, armor, some potions) rather then general purpose as a bard does.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    I did have a theory lately that the Imeon in BG2 is not the real Imeon (since BG1 Imeon is clearly not a Bhaalspawn).

    Instead, I propose that the Real Imeon died in Irenicus's dungeon around the same time as Khalid and Dynaheir while prepping you and a female Bhaalspawn for the ritual. But after discovering that his facilities were lacking to perform the ritual, he surgically modifies the other Bhaalspawn to resemble Imeon (explaining her slightly different appearance), and implants some fake memories based on memories of her culled from you and your other companions and well as as a series of suggestions to lead you out of the dungeon and engage in his charade needed to bring you to Spellhold.

    At the same time, he also put a series of suggestions in you to drive you to seek him out or protect Imeon at all costs. (which ultimately result in the Dreams due to the nascent soul-bond begun in his Dungeon (in which he actually taunts you be re-enacting part of Imeon's torture and death), and your taint taking Imeon's form)

    By the time you arrive at spellhold however, the trauma of having her soul ripped out and the various spells imbedded in her mind beginning to unravel, she's loses it completely and just up and dies from the strain of it all (as per the original script).
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199

    I did have a theory lately that the Imeon in BG2 is not the real Imeon (since BG1 Imeon is clearly not a Bhaalspawn).

    Instead, I propose that the Real Imeon died in Irenicus's dungeon around the same time as Khalid and Dynaheir while prepping you and a female Bhaalspawn for the ritual. But after discovering that his facilities were lacking to perform the ritual, he surgically modifies the other Bhaalspawn to resemble Imeon (explaining her slightly different appearance), and implants some fake memories based on memories of her culled from you and your other companions and well as as a series of suggestions to lead you out of the dungeon and engage in his charade needed to bring you to Spellhold.

    At the same time, he also put a series of suggestions in you to drive you to seek him out or protect Imeon at all costs. (which ultimately result in the Dreams due to the nascent soul-bond begun in his Dungeon (in which he actually taunts you be re-enacting part of Imeon's torture and death), and your taint taking Imeon's form)

    By the time you arrive at spellhold however, the trauma of having her soul ripped out and the various spells imbedded in her mind beginning to unravel, she's loses it completely and just up and dies from the strain of it all (as per the original script).

    Didn't someone using Ctrl-Q to add people to their party actually discover that the Imoen inside Candlekeep is actually a different Imoen to the one that joins your party (I believe she was actually a single-class mage or something). For some reason I can never get Ctrl-Q to work, so I can't test it myself.
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    Does anybody have any ideas on whether or not more kits will be added with the next patch? (and how long we have to wait for it? :)) - not trying to be impatient, I know the BG bosses have a lot on their plate... just curious.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199

    Does anybody have any ideas on whether or not more kits will be added with the next patch? (and how long we have to wait for it? :)) - not trying to be impatient, I know the BG bosses have a lot on their plate... just curious.

    I would assume the beta testers know, but they will be under an NDA. The rest of us are in the Underdark.
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  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Samus said:

    @Eudaemonium my enlightened friend, I thought you already knew that the date of the next patch has been elucidated and indeed its arrival shall of course be soon...

    Ah, but my darling @Samus, I must maintain my persona of generalised ignorance lest the simians suspect my true intentions.

    The time will come when we revel in the temporal space inscribed as that of 'Soon...', then all shall finally understand.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747


    Ah, but my darling @Samus, I must maintain my persona of generalised ignorance lest the simians suspect my true intentions.

    I see right through your disguise!

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199


    Ah, but my darling @Samus, I must maintain my persona of generalised ignorance lest the simians suspect my true intentions.

    I see right through your disguise!

    Well, you are a Paladin of Helm. (And totally not a beholder in any way whatsoever).
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I don't even know what a Beholder is. I mean, maybe it's a typo, but I see no reason why anyone would want to hold a bee. Those things can sting, and it's also pretty mean to cast Hold on them because they can't make honey anymore.

    Helm has blessed me with not only 7 uses of True Sight a day, but also the ability to cast them all simultaneously. That is how I gain my insights and nothing else.
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @Samus @Eudaemonium ...I have been left bewildered and confused :( Answers fraught with riddles that conjure more questions. Alas, poor Entro. Alas.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    @EntropyXII: We were just playing around. My first answer to you was the actually legitimate one: Basically, we don't know, and the ones that do know legally aren't allowed to tell.
  • EntropyXIIEntropyXII Member Posts: 656
    @Eudaemonium I know, i'm just kidding. I'm weird like that.

    I'm not being impatient - just a little bit worried that once I start playing EE with a fighter/mage the Bladesinger kit will come out and i'll have to start anew. I'm a bit of a perfectionist with hopes that my original PnP character can be made possible on BG - I guess i'll have to wait and see though :)
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225
    While Abdel Adrian is, unfortunately, canon, I prefer to disregard that.

    My image of the main character is a young mage, trained by Gorian. He starts off relatively idealistic and innocent, but quickly hardens once exposed to the outside world and it's ever present dangers.

    He travels with the canon BG1 group, but then splits with some of them to find Imoen. He meets some new companions and eventually reunites with some of his old. Valuable lessons are learnt by all round.

    I guess the end-game party would be CHARNAME, Jaheira, Imoen, Sarevok, Keldorn and Aerie, for the sake of being an extraordinarily powerful group.
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  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225
    Samus said:

    @Onestep why would you prefer Keldorn over Minsc?

    Carsomyr. The Inquisitor kit being really powerful. I like his character too. And with Sarevok kicking around, having two characters who are only really good for their muscle is a bit excessive. Magic reigns supreme in Baldur's Gate after all. Those are the main reasons.

    Or am I missing something?

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Samus said:

    @Onestep why would you prefer Keldorn over Minsc?

    Because it's Keldorn and Minsc we are talking about...?

    Keldorn is the one NPC I envy good parties for. I like his backstory; it's not so black and white. I only take him along for his quest, so it's not much of a power/gameplay question.
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