Ever since the evil empire assimilated Bioware, I really don't buy their games any more. I have the first Dragon Age and that's about all of the money EA will get from me.
Honestly, the characters are stupid in both games, so I wasn't expecting anything great for the second game whereas I was for the first one. Hated the concept of the Grey Wardens, cheered during Duncan's death, drudged through the Deep Roads and the Mage Tower and played a lifeless mannequin of a character. The gal I had in DA2 had life and felt like me and said things the way I would have said them. I felt like the villain was more nuanced and while, yes, I was disappointed in the ending, it was still more interesting than Loghain. Heck, when you first met him you knew immediately that he was the bad guy and it was all downhill from there. I was never surprised at the results of my actions. I never cared. When I accidentally got my sister killed in DA2, I was saddened. Meh. To each his own, but I wouldn't replay Origins if you paid me.
@AvengingExile: Why did you hate the concept of the Grey Wardens? And Duncan? I thought Duncan was one of the most reasonable and likeable characters in Origins. And yes, your character felt indeed a bit like a blank slate. But to me it was better than running around with a Shepard-clone who can only say cliche lines. Also, did Hawke really deserve the title of Champion? He was more of a bystander, killed some Qunari. At least the Warden performs actions of more value, such as helping the Elves (or Werewolves) in their conflict, getting into Dwarven politics (quite an interesting concept, inspired on politics in real life), travelling around in the Fade (yes, I wholeheartedly admit I am one of the few who liked the Fade) and seeing horrors such as the Broodmothers (at least they were really terrifying, unlike the Clownspawn in DA 2). Remember that particular Darkspawn called The First? At least he had a good design and some characterization. The Darkspawn in DA 2 are just some groaning idiots who serve merely as cannon fodder. Even the Darkspawn in DA:O were more strategically placed instead of coming in crowds at Hawke, the human fireworks machine. I 've never seen more ridiculous combat. It was more like an overblown version of Star Wars than actual combat. Of course, you get spells as a mage. But they actually don't matter. You don't even have TIME to think which spell best to use. Maybe this is what some people like, but I prefer to still keep my brain active while playing games instead of setting it to zero. If I want to merely kill tons of enemies purely for the killing, I can just as well play COD or another of those bloody shooters. Also, you cared about your sister's death? Tell me, how much did you actually get to KNOW your family in DA 2? And wasn't that the sister who got slammed by an Ogre like a paper doll about 5 minutes in the intro of the game? I felt like your brother (the whiny wimp who got tainted) got more of a dramatic death than your sister ever got. Honestly, it went like this: Ogre grabs your sis, slams her on the ground and against the walls like a toy, drops dead sis, mom freaks out, that's it. All the while you can shoot off stupid lines like 'We have to move on' [stern face]. Really, the dialogues remind me of a soap opera. As for Loghain, was he indeed truly a villain? Wasn't it more of a strategical move to not let his army get slaughtered for nothing in Lothering? It was clear there were too much Darkspawn. He would have only caused another massacre and have fastened the downfall of Lothering. It was actually a smart move. Let's be honest. We all knew the king was a bit of an idealist, a dreamer of fairytales. This was an actual war. In a war you have to make choices and sacrifices. None of it was as selfish as Meredith ever was. Also, she also got a cheesy introduction (the bitching against Varric). It honestly bored me. On another note: so you didn't mind the re-use of maps in the game? Didn't mind re-visiting the same dungeon over and over again? Would you really prefer THAT to the various environments in DA:O? Didn't see any mention of that in your post. I also thought the spells system was confusing in DA 2. They gave it a - failed- Skyrim make-over. What was wrong with the clear spell trees in DA:O? They were structured well enough in rows. I could immediately see which different types there were and which spell would follow another. But maybe DA 2's spell system was made for people who are too lazy to scroll down and who just randomly pick a spell without thinking. I thought it was abhorrent and confusing. Also, the armour. God, the armour. At least in DA:O you got various kinds of armour. In DA 2 it is character-specific. Considered as 'upgrades'. How dumb. Totally takes away fiddling around with and trying out different armours on different characters. Nooo, instead, let Isabela fight in a skimpy pirate outfit! She certainly won't be stabbed in her huge bossom which is only covered by one tiny layer of cloth! Totally safe, if you ask me. Even rogues in DA:O still had to wear leather armour to protect vulnerable areas. I admit, I wasn't happy with all armour in DA:O, but at least it felt better to send my characters into battle wearing some protection instead of pants and a shirt. I admit, mage armour can still be improved. But then mages were never meant to be frontliners, they were meant to be protected by fighters while firing off their magic from far away. It's the intention that enemies don't get too close to them. Also, you say you never cared about the results of your actions. This line just shows how much committment you had while playing the game. It also makes me wonder what kind of motivation you actually had to play the game. So you wouldn't like to see your character grow? Just mess around? If you accidentally blow up a castle, or cause the extinction of a race, you just go 'meh'? But then it wasn't like your choices had any real consequence in DA 2.
I just noticed I made a mistake in my previous post. The guy that dies in the intro of the game is of course Aveline's husband, not any of your family. He's still a wimp, though.
I will wait to see actual info for the game, then will decide if what i see intrigues me.
I'm not that difficult to please, really, but the tendency that Bioware has lately to enforce limitations upon the player, is something that i start to find annoying.
Anyway, i'm a person that usually needs to play something different than the "generic fighter, rogue, or mage" kind of a thing.
Dragon Age 2 was really limiting for me in that aspect, so if the trend continues to DA3, chances are i won't bother. Why bother if you're not going to play something anyway?
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud: Going back to what you were saying about Hawke, remember that the narration between cut scenes glosses over a lot of what they do inbetween chapters. I have to assume that Hawke did a lot more of merit than we see, in order to be made champion. That said, while I did enjoy the game, it wasn't as engaging as the first, and I hope that when DA3 comes out, they will have rectified this, bringing the style and formula closer to, if not completely, the first game.
Dragon Age 2 did a bunch of things right; I enjoyed the larger timeframe so your character doesn't grow into a legendary figure over the course of a month (or two months, with the sequel), the narration by an external figure (and subsequent unreliability of it) and parts of the combat system (like the increased speed, not the anime-ish style, wave spawning or Wizard martial arts). Some of the NPC's had a good personality, and I liked that they had lives beyond travelling with the main character (instead of just standing around in location X, waiting for you to return).
The storyline didn't interest me, some of the NPC's were sadly lacking ("Mages, grrr" or "Templars, grrr"), the wave combat with randomly spawning enemies was pretty sad, the reusing of the same areas over and over felt very amateurish, the lack of customisation on your main character (going more along the ways of Mass Effect) and your party felt very constrained and the lack of any real consequence to your actions, other than some cosmetic issues was dissappointing.
I hope they recognise the good parts and fix the bad parts. I've been playing Mass Effect 3 recently (finished it last night) and excluding the ending, I loved it to bits. They took what worked in ME1 and ME2 and combined it, vastly enhancing the gameplay and offering some real quality storytelling in bits (again, excluding the ending). I hope the designers of Dragon Age go along the same route. Look at DA:O, look at DA2 and then take what worked best from both worlds and make a really good game. The main plot is not in my favorite direction (mages vs templars, yaaay) but at least we get to see the Tevinter Empire, which is supposed to be cool. And I hope they put some goddamn competent writers on the ending this time, not some LSD tripping philosophy faillures.
No, for two reasons. Firstly, I don't buy any games published by EA. They've destroyed so many of my favourite studios and I don't want to reward them for all the bad choices they've made.
Secondly, Dragon Age 2 was very poor and I have no interest in continuing the series. It's not surprising as Bioware games have lost the complexity and intelligence they once had.
@Magnus_Grelich: You make a fair point. But the problem lies in the 'I have to assume' part of your argument. We indeed don't SEE those things ourselves. We don't get to experience Hawke's road to Championship fully, contrary to in Origins where you could see your character's every move. It's like reading a book which starts telling about a protagonist who starts out as a weak mage. Then the next chapter skips to how the protagonist has become the leading mage of his school. This could work in some cases, but you miss out on so many opportunities for character development. It leaves the reader behind and confuses him/her. I think it's a bit of a pity, to be honest. But tastes can differ.
You make a fair point. But the problem lies in the 'I have to assume' part of your argument. We indeed don't SEE those things ourselves. We don't get to experience Hawke's road to Championship fully, contrary to in Origins where you could see your character's every move. It's like reading a book which starts telling about a protagonist who starts out as a weak mage. Then the next chapter skips to how the protagonist has become the leading mage of his school. This could work in some cases, but you miss out on so many opportunities for character development. It leaves the reader behind and confuses him/her. I think it's a bit of a pity, to be honest. But tastes can differ.
This really is a necessary part of storytelling, though, because you can't tell everything. The question is, what's important: How the protagonist becomes the leading mage, or what they do once they've achieved that status? And the answer depends entirely on the kind of story the writer is trying to tell.
No, for two reasons. Firstly, I don't buy any games published by EA. They've destroyed so many of my favourite studios and I don't want to reward them for all the bad choices they've made.
Secondly, Dragon Age 2 was very poor and I have no interest in continuing the series. It's not surprising as Bioware games have lost the complexity and intelligence they once had.
EA does not destroy developers. They offer the fruit (big bucks) and the devs know, full well, what will happen. BioWare cashed out. Blaming EA for being EA is silly. BioWare wanted access to quick cash, and they got it. If they were surprised that EA would call some of their shots, they were either naive or malfeisant.
I'm not defending EA. It's just that we know what EA is and does. They push a very generic 'please everybody' type game (rather than the high quality niche that people in this forum prefer). It is what it is, but don't tell me that it was some shocking surprise that came out of nowhere.
I love @Drugar 's point about building from nowhere to something. In a way, DA ][ was (I think) trying to do something akin to Baldur's Gate. Yes, there was so much scripting (thereby limiting the RP) that it fell flat, but I do like the rags to riches part of the story. The problem is that I didn't like the game play. Non-strategic and, if you try to be strategic, enemies will spawn behind the formation, sometimes where it is impossible to do so. Next: blood sprays everywhere. *sigh* Did that ability recharge yet? *sigh*
Most likely, DA ]I[ will be console port buttom mashing near anime (taking the trends from DA:O to DA ][ and extrapolating). Soulcaliber meets ... I don't even know, as I don't play games in that genre. It will not bring in the money that the previous releases did because a big block of that audience was alienated. They cashed in with DA ][ and ME3, but, now, the buyer is aware.
To quote the sage:
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it. I'm huge!
@Magnus_Grelich: You make a fair point. But the problem lies in the 'I have to assume' part of your argument. We indeed don't SEE those things ourselves. We don't get to experience Hawke's road to Championship fully, contrary to in Origins where you could see your character's every move. It's like reading a book which starts telling about a protagonist who starts out as a weak mage. Then the next chapter skips to how the protagonist has become the leading mage of his school. This could work in some cases, but you miss out on so many opportunities for character development. It leaves the reader behind and confuses him/her. I think it's a bit of a pity, to be honest. But tastes can differ.
Actually, that exact example is done very well in Feist's Magician books. The not-so-talented apprentice wizard Pug ends up in an alien world where he is taught another kind of magic, one that he excells at. There are a few chapters telling this part of his story, his discovery by the mages there, his introduction into the new academy, and then there's a timejump of a few years where he's moved on to master magery and is now very influential. The writer could've told this story, but it would make the book 3x the length and focus mainly on him studying, practicing, studying, practicing, getting promoted, studying, practicing, argueing with other wizards, studying, practicing, etc. Not very exciting reading.
Likewise, in DA2, Hawke spends a year as a mercenary. Cracking heads, guard duty, patrolling, guard duty, argueing with the boss, argueing with your mom and 'uncle', guard duty, settling into your new house, problems with local gang, guard duty. Instead, the game skips over this part and says "There you go, a year of mindnumbing drudgery, you did well and you've settled into the city." Playing that part would have been exhaustingly boring.
I just noticed I made a mistake in my previous post. The guy that dies in the intro of the game is of course Aveline's husband, not any of your family. He's still a wimp, though.
You're actually mistaken on both counts, but you'd have to do multiple playthroughs to understand why.
If you play a mage, Bethany dies in the intro. Carver dies, joins the Grey Wardens, or joins the Templars, depending upon actions the PC takes.
If you play a non-mage, Carver dies in the intro. Bethany dies, joins the Grey Wardens, or joins the Mages, depending upon actions the PC takes.
My guess is that the person you responded to played a non-mage and Bethany died due to his choices. I personally felt really attached to the cast of DA2 -- their individual stories were my favorite part of the scenario, and the VA was great.
The whole templar/mage thing could of been cool, I even liked what one of the party members does in sort of escalating it. But the rest was just executed poorly with both sides turning out to have boogeyman final forms that were unintentionally hilarious.
The second act should be fleshed out more as well, basically there was a lot of potential that shouldn't have been rushed out the door.
I actually would prefer if there were a bit more information on the game... I understand why they don't release anything yet after DA 2 and ME 3, but still...
I actually would prefer if there were a bit more information on the game... I understand why they don't release anything yet after DA 2 and ME 3, but still...
Well they are done with ME3 so new info will probably start to pop up.
DA:O was decent... seems like they put in a lot of work but it sort of fell flat, felt extremely generic and did not pull me in like Baldur's Gate or (compared to a new series The Witcher). The story was terribly boring, but the character interactions within the story kept me going and were motivation enough.
DA2 was DA:O but on drugs, spiraling out of control as the game went on in a bad way. Repeating dungeons, cliched interactions and storylines, art direction change(odd?). The scope of the game dropped as well which is one of the more redeeming qualities of origins.
Another gripe was the very pushy romances where I had to tiptoe around everyone to not offend my party members of the same sex (I just wanna be bros! at least until Anders turned into a terrorist and I killed him for it)
The combat was okay, in the I don't feel like thinking lets chop stuff up kind of way. I prefer DA:O combat for a long type game, DA2 was fun to play but got boring fast. This kind of sums up the entire feel of the game, they broadened appeal and lost everything unique that would bring me back to the series.
@Mornmagor: Well, that's fun for the people able to go to E3, I guess. Too bad there's a huge ocean between me and that event. I just wish EA/Bioware could take their interaction with their fans a bit more seriously. They're really starting to come off as amateurs at this point.
We won't go to E3, that's for sure, but i imagine the news about the game will hit the forums and many other places in the net.
So eventually we will see at least what this is about, and decide, at least partially, if we're interested.
As for Bioware, all this time they were teasing here and there while at the same time saying nothing, and still claim they will release DA3 in 2013, meaning, less than 6 months after the E3, where we will hear and see the first actual info/video footage about the game(!).
Additionally, they claimed that the footage we will see will "blow us away"(...). Pretty big words, and i doubt they can deliver, to be honest. I'll believe it when i see it.
Yeah. Everything EA makes has to 'blow us away'. Like the newest Simcity game. LOL.
I'd settle for being throughouhly invested in the game and interested in what happens next. If I get blown away in the process, that's a nice side effect, but the former is the important part.
I just wish EA/Bioware could take their interaction with their fans a bit more seriously. They're really starting to come off as amateurs at this point.
Seriously? EA duh, but Bioware released an alternate ending to their game because of fans. That has never happened (to my knowledge, I'd love to hear of another example, no Broken Steel doesn't count) with any other game.
I just wish EA/Bioware could take their interaction with their fans a bit more seriously. They're really starting to come off as amateurs at this point.
Seriously? EA duh, but Bioware released an alternate ending to their game because of fans. That has never happened (to my knowledge, I'd love to hear of another example, no Broken Steel doesn't count) with any other game.
Yeah, and I'd love to know whether that fix actually changed something. Most people I talked to still despise the ending and find it very amateurish from Bioware. Also, what does this say about the original game you made, if your audience acts up so much you gotta fix your own game? And let's not start about the audience itself (yes, they might be whiny and entitled at times), they indeed deserved better in this case. I still don't get how Bioware's not been persecuted for plagiarism either by now. Must be the shiny EA pay-off dollars.
Comments
Meh. To each his own, but I wouldn't replay Origins if you paid me.
I'm not that difficult to please, really, but the tendency that Bioware has lately to enforce limitations upon the player, is something that i start to find annoying.
Anyway, i'm a person that usually needs to play something different than the "generic fighter, rogue, or mage" kind of a thing.
Dragon Age 2 was really limiting for me in that aspect, so if the trend continues to DA3, chances are i won't bother. Why bother if you're not going to play something anyway?
That said, while I did enjoy the game, it wasn't as engaging as the first, and I hope that when DA3 comes out, they will have rectified this, bringing the style and formula closer to, if not completely, the first game.
The storyline didn't interest me, some of the NPC's were sadly lacking ("Mages, grrr" or "Templars, grrr"), the wave combat with randomly spawning enemies was pretty sad, the reusing of the same areas over and over felt very amateurish, the lack of customisation on your main character (going more along the ways of Mass Effect) and your party felt very constrained and the lack of any real consequence to your actions, other than some cosmetic issues was dissappointing.
I hope they recognise the good parts and fix the bad parts.
I've been playing Mass Effect 3 recently (finished it last night) and excluding the ending, I loved it to bits. They took what worked in ME1 and ME2 and combined it, vastly enhancing the gameplay and offering some real quality storytelling in bits (again, excluding the ending).
I hope the designers of Dragon Age go along the same route. Look at DA:O, look at DA2 and then take what worked best from both worlds and make a really good game. The main plot is not in my favorite direction (mages vs templars, yaaay) but at least we get to see the Tevinter Empire, which is supposed to be cool.
And I hope they put some goddamn competent writers on the ending this time, not some LSD tripping philosophy faillures.
Secondly, Dragon Age 2 was very poor and I have no interest in continuing the series. It's not surprising as Bioware games have lost the complexity and intelligence they once had.
I'm not defending EA. It's just that we know what EA is and does. They push a very generic 'please everybody' type game (rather than the high quality niche that people in this forum prefer). It is what it is, but don't tell me that it was some shocking surprise that came out of nowhere.
I love @Drugar 's point about building from nowhere to something. In a way, DA ][ was (I think) trying to do something akin to Baldur's Gate. Yes, there was so much scripting (thereby limiting the RP) that it fell flat, but I do like the rags to riches part of the story. The problem is that I didn't like the game play. Non-strategic and, if you try to be strategic, enemies will spawn behind the formation, sometimes where it is impossible to do so. Next: blood sprays everywhere. *sigh* Did that ability recharge yet? *sigh*
Most likely, DA ]I[ will be console port buttom mashing near anime (taking the trends from DA:O to DA ][ and extrapolating). Soulcaliber meets ... I don't even know, as I don't play games in that genre. It will not bring in the money that the previous releases did because a big block of that audience was alienated. They cashed in with DA ][ and ME3, but, now, the buyer is aware.
To quote the sage:
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it. I'm huge!
The writer could've told this story, but it would make the book 3x the length and focus mainly on him studying, practicing, studying, practicing, getting promoted, studying, practicing, argueing with other wizards, studying, practicing, etc. Not very exciting reading.
Likewise, in DA2, Hawke spends a year as a mercenary. Cracking heads, guard duty, patrolling, guard duty, argueing with the boss, argueing with your mom and 'uncle', guard duty, settling into your new house, problems with local gang, guard duty. Instead, the game skips over this part and says "There you go, a year of mindnumbing drudgery, you did well and you've settled into the city." Playing that part would have been exhaustingly boring.
If you play a mage, Bethany dies in the intro. Carver dies, joins the Grey Wardens, or joins the Templars, depending upon actions the PC takes.
If you play a non-mage, Carver dies in the intro. Bethany dies, joins the Grey Wardens, or joins the Mages, depending upon actions the PC takes.
My guess is that the person you responded to played a non-mage and Bethany died due to his choices. I personally felt really attached to the cast of DA2 -- their individual stories were my favorite part of the scenario, and the VA was great.
The second act should be fleshed out more as well, basically there was a lot of potential that shouldn't have been rushed out the door.
Which means news will arrive at june 11-13.
DA2 was DA:O but on drugs, spiraling out of control as the game went on in a bad way. Repeating dungeons, cliched interactions and storylines, art direction change(odd?). The scope of the game dropped as well which is one of the more redeeming qualities of origins.
Another gripe was the very pushy romances where I had to tiptoe around everyone to not offend my party members of the same sex (I just wanna be bros! at least until Anders turned into a terrorist and I killed him for it)
The combat was okay, in the I don't feel like thinking lets chop stuff up kind of way. I prefer DA:O combat for a long type game, DA2 was fun to play but got boring fast. This kind of sums up the entire feel of the game, they broadened appeal and lost everything unique that would bring me back to the series.
I will not be purchasing DA3.
So eventually we will see at least what this is about, and decide, at least partially, if we're interested.
As for Bioware, all this time they were teasing here and there while at the same time saying nothing, and still claim they will release DA3 in 2013, meaning, less than 6 months after the E3, where we will hear and see the first actual info/video footage about the game(!).
Additionally, they claimed that the footage we will see will "blow us away"(...). Pretty big words, and i doubt they can deliver, to be honest. I'll believe it when i see it.