Yeah. You tend to have mixed results getting it to work in the first game. Later on a high level cleric can even blast The Dragon in the second game to bits using Turn Undead. Its a good tool for minimizing the amount of magic necessary needed totake out a group of undead in the second game once your clerics level up a bit.
Good aligned: makes undead go away or explode on higher levels Neutral aligned: makes undead go away; no idea what happens on higher levels Evil aligned: turns undead friendly; if I'm not mistaken, the charm lasts longer/wider radius on higher levels
The problem with evil clerics is they need to be a higher level to dominate an undead creature than a neutral or good cleric would need to be to destroy the same undead creature.
"Turning Undead One important, and potentially life-saving, combat ability available to Clerics and Paladins is the ability to turn undead. Through the Cleric or Paladin, a deity manifests a portion of its power, terrifying evil, undead creatures or blasting them right out of existence. However, since the power must be channeled through a mortal vessel, success is not always assured. This ability is a mode selection for that character—nothing else can be attempted while he or she is attempting to turn undead. Good Clerics and Paladins can turn undead so they lose morale and run away or (less often) destroy them outright. Evil Clerics and Blackguards can sometimes gain control of undead, who can then perform actions for them."
It tends to work best at very high levels so in BG2 EE...
Also in Icewind Dale 1, a 30 level good-aligned cleric disrupts undead at will with ease. Just visit the "Burial Isle" and turn your turn undead on . Kaboom
The only thing that kind of sucks is that the Command turning isn't permanent like it's supposed to be (Can control a number of HD equal to double the cleric's level, until they're destroyed or you release them to make room for new servants), of course Animate Dead is also supposed to have a permanent duration.
Turning is fine in BG1, for it's primary purpose...it's an infinite use undead specific crowd control fear spell, that at level cap, can explode/control some types of undead, depending on their HD. The high level version is more of a convenience thing, since if you have 2x the HD of the target (required for the 2ndry effect) they're likely just trash encounters and being able to instantly blow them up saves some time and resources rather then actually having to fight them.
Command and Destroy have the exact same level requirement (2x HD of the targets), alignment is the only difference.
@ZanathKariashi The problem is P&P games have a built in moderator to fix things. I don't have a problem with some tweaks for game balance or engine limitations.
Trust me..game balance has NOTHING to do with it....BG's mechanics are broken beyond belief already, and no amount of punishing legitimate mechanics (for some reason) is going to fix that.
And it isn't even really a engine limitation. Familars already have the necessary mechanics to transition with indefinite duration. And with the summon limit (which is BS, IMO, since it completely undermines the conjuror and necromancer play-styles...especially the conjuror's), it's hard to really abuse anyway. Sure having 5 liches at your beck and call might seem over powered, but by the time you're strong enough to Command those (between 24-28, depending on the lich), that's literally the kind of power you're SUPPOSED to have.
Turning is the Priest's ability to call on the power of their God to make undead flee (Good/Neutral) or to make them allies of the Priest (evil). It's not guaranteed at all at lower levels, but as the priest goes up in levels, he can affect undead more easily and has a chance to affect more powerful undead. Even, in the original Pen and Paper game Paladins/Blackguards. Paladins and Blackguards also have this ability, but it is weaker in them and they turn undead as a cleric of two or three levels lower than their class level. Also in Pen and Paper, eventually, the priest gets a chance to turn powerful outsiders (Demons, Devils, Demodands and such) as if they were undead.
Does Charisma affect the efficiency of this ability like it does in NWN?
No, NWN is based on a different rules set than BG is. Only level effects turn undead ability in BG.
Perfect! Thanks
More specifically your level vs the level of your opponent. I wrote a post showing the various levels of undead creatures awhile back. I'll see if I can find it and if so I'll post it here again below.
Vampires can be anywhere between level 8 (most basic) to 12. There are also level 14 vampires found in the enhanced edition areas. I would say the most common vampire you will come across (at least in SoA) will be either 8 or 9.
The most basic lich is level 11. The lich found underneath the bridge district (AR0082) that has the golden torso is level 19. Elemental liches, fire liches, and shade liches are level 20. Regular Demilich (the one in Watcher's Keep) and Kangaxx (both his forms) are 27 and the Deril Lich (Cernd's quest) is level 29.
In BGEE Ghasts are level 4 (with the exception of black pits ghasts which are level 5).
In BG2EE Some Ghasts are level 5 while others are level 6. Fell Ghasts and Greater Ghasts are always going to be level 6 (but just something labelled "Ghast" could be either).
In BGEE regular skeletons are level 1.
In BG2EE regular skeletons fall anywhere between levels 1-6.
In BGEE skeletal warriors vary between level 9-13. Either way you won't be able to turn them.
In BG2EE skeletal warriors are typically level 9. There are a few creature files that have higher levels (up to 14) but from what I can tell those don't get used in the game. The only ones I could find that are higher than this may involve Nyalee/Gorion attacking you, those are level 20 (all the skeletons you encounter in that situation are level 20).
In BGEE your basic ghoul is level 2 (including Korax). Greater ghoul's can be either 4 (in the regular game) or 6 (exclusively for the black pits).
In BG2EE your basic ghoul is level 2. Greater ghouls can be either level 6 or 7. A ghoul lord is level 7.
Regular mummy's are level 7. Greater mummy's are level 14. The exception to this is greater mummy's found in the black pits 2 (I haven't played to this part of black pits 2 but apparently there is a weaker greater mummy that is level 9, and another greater mummy file that is level 34 and has additional immunities/resistances...I'm assuming they are a boss...but if they are I don't want to know about it )
In BGEE zombies are level 2.
In BG2EE zombies (including sea zombies) are going to be level 2. The exceptions to this are Zombie Lords (level 5) and the Sea Zombie Lord (who is level 12).
In BGEE Shade wolves are level 4 and devil shades are level 11.
In BG2EE devil shades are level 15 (the deck of many things creates one that is 20). In presumably Hexxat's areas you run into devil shade character files that are level 11. Shade wolves are level 4. Greater shade wolves are level 5. Shade Lord's are level 20.
Keep in mind a cleric has to be 2 levels above an undead enemy for Turn Undead to cause panic. A cleric has to be 7 levels above an enemy to cause it to be destroyed.
A paladin has to be 4 levels above an enemy for Turn Undead to cause panic and 9 levels above an enemy to cause that enemy to be destroyed.
You'd need to be a level 29 cleric to cause panic and level 34 to cause their destruction. It should be possible.
I thought they were immune?! They AREN'T?! :O Dobby must iron his hands! >:O
Looks like you are partly right. The one in watcher's keep is immune to the destruction aspect. But when I used turn undead on that one just now it was still causing it to run around everywhere. But Kangaxx's demi-lich form can be killed with turn undead.
Oh sweet as! God damn it, I've hardly ever used that! I usually just charge blindly on flailing with everything I can pick up... Or fireball it. Fireball is great. That's good to know though. One of my play through's at the moment is a Cleric of Tyr so that will come in handy! Cheers Elminster! The next round is on me! What's your poison? :P
Fubby
Member Posts: 189
Comments
it will dominate undead for evil cleric (like charm person)
need high level cleric and doesn't work really well in bg1
better in bg2
Just to be clear: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheDragon
Neutral aligned: makes undead go away; no idea what happens on higher levels
Evil aligned: turns undead friendly; if I'm not mistaken, the charm lasts longer/wider radius on higher levels
"Turning Undead
One important, and potentially life-saving, combat ability available to Clerics
and Paladins is the ability to turn undead. Through the Cleric or Paladin, a
deity manifests a portion of its power, terrifying evil, undead creatures or
blasting them right out of existence. However, since the power must be
channeled through a mortal vessel, success is not always assured. This ability
is a mode selection for that character—nothing else can be attempted while
he or she is attempting to turn undead. Good Clerics and Paladins can turn
undead so they lose morale and run away or (less often) destroy them
outright. Evil Clerics and Blackguards can sometimes gain control of undead,
who can then perform actions for them."
/hit "2" "I'll help however I can!
/hit "U"
/Shadows explode
Turning is fine in BG1, for it's primary purpose...it's an infinite use undead specific crowd control fear spell, that at level cap, can explode/control some types of undead, depending on their HD. The high level version is more of a convenience thing, since if you have 2x the HD of the target (required for the 2ndry effect) they're likely just trash encounters and being able to instantly blow them up saves some time and resources rather then actually having to fight them.
Command and Destroy have the exact same level requirement (2x HD of the targets), alignment is the only difference.
And it isn't even really a engine limitation. Familars already have the necessary mechanics to transition with indefinite duration. And with the summon limit (which is BS, IMO, since it completely undermines the conjuror and necromancer play-styles...especially the conjuror's), it's hard to really abuse anyway. Sure having 5 liches at your beck and call might seem over powered, but by the time you're strong enough to Command those (between 24-28, depending on the lich), that's literally the kind of power you're SUPPOSED to have.
See it as Turn Undead Away for Good/Neutral Clerics.
And as Turn Undead to your side for Evil Clerics.
The most basic lich is level 11. The lich found underneath the bridge district (AR0082) that has the golden torso is level 19. Elemental liches, fire liches, and shade liches are level 20. Regular Demilich (the one in Watcher's Keep) and Kangaxx (both his forms) are 27 and the Deril Lich (Cernd's quest) is level 29.
In BGEE Ghasts are level 4 (with the exception of black pits ghasts which are level 5).
In BG2EE Some Ghasts are level 5 while others are level 6. Fell Ghasts and Greater Ghasts are always going to be level 6 (but just something labelled "Ghast" could be either).
In BGEE regular skeletons are level 1.
In BG2EE regular skeletons fall anywhere between levels 1-6.
In BGEE skeletal warriors vary between level 9-13. Either way you won't be able to turn them.
In BG2EE skeletal warriors are typically level 9. There are a few creature files that have higher levels (up to 14) but from what I can tell those don't get used in the game. The only ones I could find that are higher than this may involve Nyalee/Gorion attacking you, those are level 20 (all the skeletons you encounter in that situation are level 20).
In BGEE your basic ghoul is level 2 (including Korax). Greater ghoul's can be either 4 (in the regular game) or 6 (exclusively for the black pits).
In BG2EE your basic ghoul is level 2. Greater ghouls can be either level 6 or 7. A ghoul lord is level 7.
Regular mummy's are level 7. Greater mummy's are level 14. The exception to this is greater mummy's found in the black pits 2 (I haven't played to this part of black pits 2 but apparently there is a weaker greater mummy that is level 9, and another greater mummy file that is level 34 and has additional immunities/resistances...I'm assuming they are a boss...but if they are I don't want to know about it
In BGEE zombies are level 2.
In BG2EE zombies (including sea zombies) are going to be level 2. The exceptions to this are Zombie Lords (level 5) and the Sea Zombie Lord (who is level 12).
In BGEE Shade wolves are level 4 and devil shades are level 11.
In BG2EE devil shades are level 15 (the deck of many things creates one that is 20). In presumably Hexxat's areas you run into devil shade character files that are level 11. Shade wolves are level 4. Greater shade wolves are level 5. Shade Lord's are level 20.
Keep in mind a cleric has to be 2 levels above an undead enemy for Turn Undead to cause panic. A cleric has to be 7 levels above an enemy to cause it to be destroyed.
A paladin has to be 4 levels above an enemy for Turn Undead to cause panic and 9 levels above an enemy to cause that enemy to be destroyed.
Did you know that Imprisonment doesn't work on them?
Dobby must iron his hands! >:O
Cheers Elminster! The next round is on me!