@OneAngryMushroom A paladin in my service? Uh, I don't offer any divine spells or powers to my followers. Not that I have any followers. I really have little interest in what's going on in the Forgotten Realms. That is, if I'm not playing with them at the moment. Besides, Ao handles things well and there's never been a need for me to intervene... or perhaps once. Or twice. Sometimes. Whatever. Anyway, if you wish to found a church or order of some sort - feel free to. Just don't expect any... boons. Should I find some spare time, I might throw in an occasional holy hand grenade without warning, turn some of your wine to water or start a zombie apocalypse, but I normally don't mess with mortals. Not much.
@god Although the temptation for Holy Hand grenades is great I have to decline. Perhaps there are enough gods in The Realms as is. That makes 3 orders I managed to irreparably upset. Could you hook me up with a deal from one of your more benevolent deity buddies. I fell out of favor with Psilofyr, long story... those Helmites are still mad at me and the less said about that time I was abducted by a Chauntea cult the better.
Paladin is by and large my favored archetype to play, alongside a fighter->thief.
However, because of my knowledge of Bg1&2, of things available and such, i'm going a little nuts due to weapon proficiencies. I'd love to play a longsword wielding pally tank.. but we all know that's just down right silly because of Carsomyr.. and the pally bastardsword you get later on. So i'm forever stuck with paladin /w greatsword, whenever i play one.. shame really. Carsomyr is just so good and awesome that i -can't- avoid using it from early bg2 til the very end of the series.
As for the moral dilemma's of being a Pally in the storyline, i usually envision my paladin as a Gray Guard.
"Sacrament of the True Faith A 10th level gray guard has his order's full confidence, and can act freely (within reason) to uphold the goals and tenets of his faith. He never needs to atone for violating his code of conduct in pursuit of a just cause, nor does he risk losing his class abilities. Note, however, that this sacrament does not allow wanton slaughter or immoral behavior. The loosening of the code is a privilege, one that can be revoked if the gray guard commits grossly evil or immoral acts. The deity or leaders of the faith may see fit to expel you from the order, costing you both paladin and gray guard powers permanently."
"Though he works toward the same goals as other members of his faith, he may find himself ostracized by his fellows. At best, he flirts with corruption, and at worst, embraces it. Paladins may see him as weak, for he has not (in their view) the courage to fight for justice with honor.
The gray guard is not proud of what he does, but rather sees it as a necessity forced upon him by the realities of the world. The freedom is not a boon but a loss, a tarnish of darkness on a once-pure soul. He resolves to do what is necessary, to do battle as valiantly as the greatest paladin, but as brutally as the most vile blackguard."
"Justice Blade A 4th level gray guard has seen enough to know that injustice is not exclusively the province of evildoers. Instead of smiting an evil opponent, he can choose to smite a chaotic opponent instead. At 9th level, justice blade expands to enable one to smite foes of any alignment. "
In other words, gray guards are exactly the same as Paladins (A paladin prestige class)..But they can, in fact, kick the ass of anyone whom they judge to be in the way of greater good.. or have a truce/short alliance with very evil people, if he can justify it by using their aid as a means to an end.... and they're just that much more badass than their goody-two-shoes milk drinking colleagues
I think my all time favorites are multis: (half-elf) Fighter/Mage and (half-orc) Cleric/Thief, about equally. I suppose third on the list would be a generalist Mage.
Mages, exlcuding the Sorcerors. Because mage is the first class I've beat BG with (and the most interesting to play with all the spell combinations, specializations which are directing your general playstyle etc.) and because I consider Sorcerors as a "lazy" version of mages that are rellying on natural talent and furthermore achieving greater results. I dislike this kind of things. I just do.
@ZelgadisGW, I've played a bunch with both wizards and sorcerers. I find it very hard to choose between the two, and I don't consider sorcerers to be clear winners over wizards at all. Bottom line, the wizard has the freedom and flexibility to plan and prepare for any situation. As a sorcerer, I have to agonize over every spell pick, and there are long stretches of the game where I have only one spell of the highest level, and therefore cannot have spells I need ready for many of the situations I face at that level.
The spell-pick problem gets especially bad when I start to get my first 4th-9th level spells. Which critical spells do I take first? For example, Time Stop or Wish? If I take the one, it will be a long time before I can get the other. Do I take Sequencers and Contingency in order to use lower spell levels more effectively, and thus sacrifice taking an actual new spell on those levels? What to do, what to do!?
And then, there are third level spells. Practically all of the third level spells are among the most useful in the game. Fireball, Flame Arrow, or Melf's Minute Meteors? What about Haste and Slow? Dispel Magic or Remove Magic? The poor sorcerer has to pick them one at a time over many levels of advancement, and is limited to five picks.
The one element of sorcery that draws me to it, and gets me to tolerate all those agonizing, irreversible level decisions, is the ability to cast any of the spells that you know at any time, giving the sorcerer his own kind of flexibility that is different from the wizard's.
I would not pick sorcery over wizardry if I were planning to be the party's only dedicated arcane caster. On the other hand, if I am planning to carry Neera, Xan, Dynaheir, or Edwin, I might choose sorcery, because it synergizes really well as a support class to the main mage. Having both wizardry and sorcery available in a party makes a very strong party.
@belgarathmth Once you have beaten the game, you'll know exactly which spells are useful and witch not so much, so lack of flexibility is not a problem, especially considering the fact that, you can still use the scrolls and wands. You just pick the most useful ones, and leave the rest for wands/scrolls or other items with charges. It's OK, if you disagree with it, thought.
Besides, entire concept of Sorceror just irritates me. Don't ask why, it's unlikely I will be willing to explain it throughtfuly.
@belgarathmth - this is a great reason to not make your Sorcerer the only arcane spellcaster in the party! The Sorcerer stocks up on the spells you will cast many times every day, and the NPC arcane caster (the tiefling Bard, or the gnomish Thief/Illusionist, or the human Thief>Mage, or the elf Cleric/Wizard, or...) covers the rest.
@belgarathmth Once you have beaten the game, you'll know exactly which spells are useful and witch not so much, so lack of flexibility is not a problem, especially considering the fact that, you can still use the scrolls and wands. You just pick the most useful ones, and leave the rest for wands/scrolls or other items with charges. It's OK, if you disagree with it, thought.
Besides, entire concept of Sorceror just irritates me. Don't ask why, it's unlikely I will be willing to explain it throughtfuly.
@ZelgadisGW, I've "beaten the game" a whole bunch of times. I know which spells are useful and which are not. You need more of the "useful" spells than a sorcerer can cover at any given level, even with scrolls and wands, unless you plan to struggle.
As for "it's unlikely I will be willing to explain it thoroughly/thoughtfully (while coining a strange new combo word, "throughtfuly" no less, and not knowing the difference between the words "witch" and "which")", I translate that as "Don't try to start a discussion with me about anything, because I can't be bothered to talk to you, and , meh. I couldn't care less what your opinions and ideas about the game are".
If I had to condense that quote to one word, I would choose the word "rude". If I had some other choices, I could choose a whole lot of kind ones and some not so kind ones.
@belgarathmth Once you have beaten the game, you'll know exactly which spells are useful and witch not so much, so lack of flexibility is not a problem, especially considering the fact that, you can still use the scrolls and wands. You just pick the most useful ones, and leave the rest for wands/scrolls or other items with charges. It's OK, if you disagree with it, thought.
Besides, entire concept of Sorceror just irritates me. Don't ask why, it's unlikely I will be willing to explain it throughtfuly.
@ZelgadisGW, I've "beaten the game" a whole bunch of times. I know which spells are useful and which are not. You need more of the "useful" spells than a sorcerer can cover at any given level, even with scrolls and wands, unless you plan to struggle.
As for "it's unlikely I will be willing to explain it thoroughly/thoughtfully (while coining a strange new combo word, "throughtfuly" no less, and not knowing the difference between the words "witch" and "which")", I translate that as "Don't try to start a discussion with me about anything, because I can't be bothered to talk to you, and , meh. I couldn't care less what your opinions and ideas about the game are".
If I had to condense that quote to one word, I would choose the word "rude". If I had some other choices, I could choose a whole lot of kind ones and some not so kind ones.
One thing I don't like about this website, is that I can't always decide what's going on. There are no lines to separate quotes.
Everyone: If @ZelgadisGW doesn't like one the classes, and he (or she) don't wanna explain why, then that's that. There's no need to pointing out a few spelling errors or calling anyone rude... or trash for that matter. Please treat each other with respect.
I prefer spellcasters before other. Don't know which class is the very best though; cleric and mage are my preferable choices but can't decide upon which. In PnP it is definitely a universal mage, no doubt.
"You need more of the "useful" spells than a sorcerer can cover at any given level"
Depends which game, In the BG:EE I think sorcerer can cover the most useful spells needed but that's just my opinion. I would rather pick slow than fireball (to be honest fireball is overrated, skull trap in my opinion is much better) plus there are so many fireball wands to warrant the memorization a waste. I am big fan of consumables and utilizing them to survive so picking spells which are scarce throughout Baldurs gate gives the game flavor. I don't like to waste spells on fights which can be overcome by ranged attacks and melee. I think magic is more effective when playing the game with no reload or on a hard difficulty whilst trying to rest as little as possible, it makes you think of what spells you really need. Sleep is amazing, so is invisibility and glitterdust. They make any mage valuable. Single effect spells I think are a waste because one creature or person can be easily dispatched when there are many of you.
for me Magic is for crowd control and for the turning of the tides through disabling. Sleep, horror (in tight spaces), hold person, charm, slow and hold person are always useful. I love enchanters like Xan, awesome specialist mage. Though I do agree that using a sorcerer and a wizard is the best way allowing you to memorize situational magics like skull trap, charms and magic missles and have readily prepared spells which can be flung when needed like dispel, haste and slow.
Comments
Thank you, kind sir. Thank you.
You need a paladin? Cause I'm in need of a new patron deity.
ScottishTurmish play? :-)A paladin in my service? Uh, I don't offer any divine spells or powers to my followers. Not that I have any followers. I really have little interest in what's going on in the Forgotten Realms. That is, if I'm not playing with them at the moment. Besides, Ao handles things well and there's never been a need for me to intervene... or perhaps once. Or twice. Sometimes. Whatever.
Anyway, if you wish to found a church or order of some sort - feel free to. Just don't expect any... boons. Should I find some spare time, I might throw in an occasional holy hand grenade without warning, turn some of your wine to water or start a zombie apocalypse, but I normally don't mess with mortals. Not much.
Although the temptation for Holy Hand grenades is great I have to decline. Perhaps there are enough gods in The Realms as is. That makes 3 orders I managed to irreparably upset. Could you hook me up with a deal from one of your more benevolent deity buddies. I fell out of favor with Psilofyr, long story... those Helmites are still mad at me and the less said about that time I was abducted by a Chauntea cult the better.
However, because of my knowledge of Bg1&2, of things available and such, i'm going a little nuts due to weapon proficiencies. I'd love to play a longsword wielding pally tank.. but we all know that's just down right silly because of Carsomyr.. and the pally bastardsword you get later on. So i'm forever stuck with paladin /w greatsword, whenever i play one.. shame really. Carsomyr is just so good and awesome that i -can't- avoid using it from early bg2 til the very end of the series.
As for the moral dilemma's of being a Pally in the storyline, i usually envision my paladin as a Gray Guard.
"Sacrament of the True Faith
A 10th level gray guard has his order's full confidence, and can act freely (within reason) to uphold the goals and tenets of his faith. He never needs to atone for violating his code of conduct in pursuit of a just cause, nor does he risk losing his class abilities.
Note, however, that this sacrament does not allow wanton slaughter or immoral behavior. The loosening of the code is a privilege, one that can be revoked if the gray guard commits grossly evil or immoral acts. The deity or leaders of the faith may see fit to expel you from the order, costing you both paladin and gray guard powers permanently."
"Though he works toward the same goals as other members of his faith, he may find himself ostracized by his fellows. At best, he flirts with corruption, and at worst, embraces it. Paladins may see him as weak, for he has not (in their view) the courage to fight for justice with honor.
The gray guard is not proud of what he does, but rather sees it as a necessity forced upon him by the realities of the world. The freedom is not a boon but a loss, a tarnish of darkness on a once-pure soul. He resolves to do what is necessary, to do battle as valiantly as the greatest paladin, but as brutally as the most vile blackguard."
"Justice Blade
A 4th level gray guard has seen enough to know that injustice is not exclusively the province of evildoers. Instead of smiting an evil opponent, he can choose to smite a chaotic opponent instead. At 9th level, justice blade expands to enable one to smite foes of any alignment. "
In other words, gray guards are exactly the same as Paladins (A paladin prestige class)..But they can, in fact, kick the ass of anyone whom they judge to be in the way of greater good.. or have a truce/short alliance with very evil people, if he can justify it by using their aid as a means to an end.... and they're just that much more badass than their goody-two-shoes milk drinking colleagues
And then we have the monks, with only one vote. Good for you, @SamuelVarg.
The spell-pick problem gets especially bad when I start to get my first 4th-9th level spells. Which critical spells do I take first? For example, Time Stop or Wish? If I take the one, it will be a long time before I can get the other. Do I take Sequencers and Contingency in order to use lower spell levels more effectively, and thus sacrifice taking an actual new spell on those levels? What to do, what to do!?
And then, there are third level spells. Practically all of the third level spells are among the most useful in the game. Fireball, Flame Arrow, or Melf's Minute Meteors? What about Haste and Slow? Dispel Magic or Remove Magic? The poor sorcerer has to pick them one at a time over many levels of advancement, and is limited to five picks.
The one element of sorcery that draws me to it, and gets me to tolerate all those agonizing, irreversible level decisions, is the ability to cast any of the spells that you know at any time, giving the sorcerer his own kind of flexibility that is different from the wizard's.
I would not pick sorcery over wizardry if I were planning to be the party's only dedicated arcane caster. On the other hand, if I am planning to carry Neera, Xan, Dynaheir, or Edwin, I might choose sorcery, because it synergizes really well as a support class to the main mage. Having both wizardry and sorcery available in a party makes a very strong party.
Besides, entire concept of Sorceror just irritates me. Don't ask why, it's unlikely I will be willing to explain it throughtfuly.
As for "it's unlikely I will be willing to explain it thoroughly/thoughtfully (while coining a strange new combo word, "throughtfuly" no less, and not knowing the difference between the words "witch" and "which")", I translate that as "Don't try to start a discussion with me about anything, because I can't be bothered to talk to you, and , meh. I couldn't care less what your opinions and ideas about the game are".
If I had to condense that quote to one word, I would choose the word "rude". If I had some other choices, I could choose a whole lot of kind ones and some not so kind ones.
Laughting at mistakes made by non-native english speakers makes you look like a trash. Sorry, but that's the truth.
"You need more of the "useful" spells than a sorcerer can cover at any given level"
Depends which game, In the BG:EE I think sorcerer can cover the most useful spells needed but that's just my opinion.
I would rather pick slow than fireball (to be honest fireball is overrated, skull trap in my opinion is much better) plus there are so many fireball wands to warrant the memorization a waste.
I am big fan of consumables and utilizing them to survive so picking spells which are scarce throughout Baldurs gate gives the game flavor. I don't like to waste spells on fights which can be overcome by ranged attacks and melee. I think magic is more effective when playing the game with no reload or on a hard difficulty whilst trying to rest as little as possible, it makes you think of what spells you really need.
Sleep is amazing, so is invisibility and glitterdust. They make any mage valuable. Single effect spells I think are a waste because one creature or person can be easily dispatched when there are many of you.
for me Magic is for crowd control and for the turning of the tides through disabling. Sleep, horror (in tight spaces), hold person, charm, slow and hold person are always useful. I love enchanters like Xan, awesome specialist mage. Though I do agree that using a sorcerer and a wizard is the best way allowing you to memorize situational magics like skull trap, charms and magic missles and have readily prepared spells which can be flung when needed like dispel, haste and slow.
I also like Cleric/Mage, which I feel is the best of both worlds in many ways (especially when using the various spells sequencers).
Multiclass for life!
Always with the necromantic and fighting motif 0:]