must have or i not buy next edition

WarpFr3ak

Greting Overhaul Games is nice to see your production, but changes you made, means your person for improvements have some lack of knowledge about this subject so i give you small fedback, consider this like friendly advice.

1A.) you not get my $ if you not do this; this is critical issue;

-Druid/Mage/Thief clas
-Druid/Thief clas
-be compatible with save game edtior

2. and if you realy wish do somthing well, and maby take more my $, consider this changes;

-all clas for all races (not nesesery, you can do this in a shadowkeeper)
-be compatible with other mods, not only this yours made in future for $
-have world map like bgt
-Priest/Mage/Thief clas
-have build in or like separate aplication, spell editor (spels dmg, spels casting time, and time space betwen casting spels)

Majoca

must un-see your comment or I will close browser and do something better with my time.

Wiggles

The horror...

*X-FILES theme plays*

TJ_Hooker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M

Iecerint

I actually agree with some of these requests.

I would complain about the articulateness, but it's possible that language barriers are at work.

Draith012

Perhaps you should state which ones you agree with so that the only activist isn't trying to 'strong arm' a request. To the OP, I doubt your one purchase of 20 dollars will really stir their schedule to accommodate your request.

Kilivitz

Am I entertained? Yes. Yes, I am.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

reedmilfam

Because it is entirely time/cost effective to implement entirely new class/builds to sell just one more copy.

All sarcasm aside, BG is mostly based on version 2 rules, and it is what it is. Version 3+ gives you more customization, so I'd point you toward NwN mods for BG (games/series). I don't know how complete those are, but they use a ruleset that will let you do what you want and then some.

WarpFr3ak

yey sorry for my english if somone faels ofenden, if i find some time i try write this correctly

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

WarpFr3ak

i see you understend me very well so its nice, and for persons wich are childish or wish to troll me some more;

Greting Overhaul Games is nice to see your production, but changes you made, means your person for improvements have some lack of knowledge about this subject so i give you small fedback, consider this like friendly advice.

1A.) you not get my $ if you not do this; this is critical issue;

-Druid/Mage/Thief clas
-Druid/Thief clas
-be compatible with save game edtior

2. and if you realy wish do somthing well, and maby take more my $, consider this changes;

-all clas for all races (not nesesery, you can do this in a shadowkeeper)
-be compatible with other mods, not only this yours made in future for $
-have world map like bgt
-Priest/Mage/Thief clas
-have build in or like separate aplication, spell editor (spels dmg, spels casting time, and time space betwen casting spels)

Majoca

The only thing mentioned which intrigues me is druid/mage, please correct me as I know very little, but it is a legal class in PnP is it not? would spice up druids.

WarpFr3ak

i not mention druid/mage.

Troodon80

@Majoca, not according to the players handbook with the core rules...

The closest would probably be Cleric/Thief, which is miles apart.

Also, for what I've seen so far during character creation, it's spot on with the core rules.

I'm sure no one here needs a reminder about what classes are in the core rules, but I'll post anyway .

Dwarf
Fighter/Thief
Fighter/Cleric

Elf
Fighter/ Mage
Fighter/Thief
Mage/Thief
Fighter/Mage/Thief

Gnome
Fighter/ Cleric
Fighter/llJusionist
Fighter/Thief
Cleric/IIllusionist
Cleric/Thief
Illusionist/Thief

Halfling
Fighter/Thief

Half-elf
Fighter/Cleric
Fighter/Thief
Fighter/Druid
Fighter/Mage
Cleric/Ranger
Cleric/Mage
Thief/Mage
Fighter/Mage/Cleric
Fighter/Mage/Thief

Anything outside that would probably also be outside the scope of what Wizards of the Coast will allow them to add.

Edvin

@WarpFr3ak
Yes !
I want spacehamster subrace, whole game in 3D and shotguns for all my party members.
If Overhaul Games don´t give me all what i want, they don´t get my $ and go bankrupt.
Overhaul Games will tremble in fear of me, i am death destroyer of worlds !!!

Draith012

Well personally, if certain races were restricted from certain classes for lore reason, then it is what it is. That being said, the option to be able to mod such things should be available to those that have the interest in doing it. The company is probably VERY obligated to stick to the existing 2nd edition rules. Plus I don't see the point of doing something that a mod already does. It'll be more constructive to ask for something that mods can't do.

It might be asking too much but a new section to design personal spells would be nice. This might fall under your spell editor idea.

Kilivitz

@Troodon80 actually, the Half-elf part is written like this:

Fighter/Cleric*
Fighter/Thief
Fighter/Druid
Fighter/Mage
Cleric*/Ranger
Cleric*/Mage
Thief/Mage
Fighter/Mage/Cleric*
Fighter/Mage/Thief

* or Druid

So yeah, the Druid/Mage is possible according to PnP rules. I've made a request for it to be added to the game but it seems that's not as simple as it seems, so it's not likely to happen.

mlnevese

The classes are hardcoded and quite hard to change. There are requests to externalize them but the priority right now is the new graphics engine and multiplayer system. Maybe at a later date the devs will work on it.

Troodon80

@Kilivitz, what book are you reading from?

The book I'm looking at is "The revised and updated Player's Handbook for the 2nd Edition of the AD&D game." (Dated 1989)

According to that, page 44, it doesn't mention druid in the multi-class at all. @LadyRhian would likely have a better idea on this than I would.

The exact text under the combinations heading is as follows (I have tried to format as well as possible to get it looking similar to the original):

Multi-Class Combinations
                                All of the standard demihuman races are listed here, along with their allowable multi-class combinations. Note that the character class names (not group names) are used below.

Dwarf
Fighter/Thief
Fighter/Cleric

Elf
Fighter/ Mage
Fighter/Thief
Mage/Thief
Fighter/Mage/Thief

Gnome
Fighter/ Cleric
Fighter/llJusionist
Fighter/Thief
Cleric/IIllusionist
Cleric/Thief
Illusionist/Thief

Halfling
Fighter/Thief

Half-elf
Fighter/Cleric
Fighter/Thief
Fighter/Druid
Fighter/Mage
Cleric/Ranger
Cleric/Mage
Thief/Mage
Fighter/Mage/Cleric
Fighter/Mage/Thief

        As stated earlier in their description, specialist wizards cannot be multi-class (gnome illusionists are the single exception to this rule). The required devotion to their single field prevents specialist wizards from applying themselves to other classes. Priests of a specific mythos might be allowed as a multi-class option; this will depend on the nature of the mythos as determined by the DM.

If they're going by the core rules, then they are spot on for multi-class.

Edit: According to the interwebs, there is some contention over whether or not druid is official. Some sites (example) say that various clerics from other races can be substituted with a druid, not just half-elves. Others (example) simply state half-elf. Others are apparently very specific in that they disregard Ranger/Cleric as a substitutional multi-class, while others do not. So for now, I'll just assume the book is right .

LadyRhian

@Troodon80 Druid was a human-only class in 1e. I don't think they changed that in 2e, but I will check when I go home. Druids in 1e were a human class because they had a human-oriented mindset.

Kilivitz

Troodon80 said:

@Kilivitz, what book are you reading from?

The book I'm looking at is "The revised and updated Player's Handbook for the 2nd Edition of the AD&D game." (Dated 1989)

According to that, page 44, it doesn't mention druid in the multi-class at all.

I was actually reading the 1995 Player's Handbook. I'm guessing that's one of the few revisions made for that version of the book. I'm guessing BG rules were based on this one, considering the game came out in 1999 and all.

But on the other hand, they may have gone with the 1989 list in order to keep the class combos under a manageable number.

Jalily

LadyRhian said:

Druid was a human-only class in 1e. I don't think they changed that in 2e, but I will check when I go home. Druids in 1e were a human class because they had a human-oriented mindset.

Human-oriented mindset?

Troodon80

@Kilivitz, I wasn't aware that there was a newer revision than the one I had. I will, however, be getting the re-print of the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Rulebook, and Monstrous Manual when they arrive. So I can have a read through them and see what's changed .

Nifft

The way we played D&D was never about winning legal disputes, nor citing page & paragraph of some obscure book's by-laws.

The game of D&D was always something we customized. If you wanted to be a Dwarf Conjurer, you'd find a way. Maybe he summoned animals with the Earth Elemental template instead of Fiendish or Celestial. Maybe he hurled magic rock darts instead of magic force missiles.

So I, uh, don't actually care much what the 2e rules lawyers might say.

I'd much prefer that modders be allowed to customize the game, and players be allowed to pick whatever mods they want to use. If someone wants to play a Dwarf Druid, that's fine with me.

IMHO the only concern should be how hard it would be to enable the code to support new multi & dual class combos.

Troodon80

@Nifft, Wizard's of the Coast lawyers may not see it the same way (based on what we've been told about what they can and can't change). Just sayin' .

I do agree that it's something that modders should be able to do, though. I was going to try and port over some of the cleric classes/kits as well as others from IWD2, but with a lack of time I have had little success. I don't even know if it is currently possible - but if it is hardcoded, then it is likely a waste of my time trying.

Nifft

Troodon80 said:

@Nifft, Wizard's of the Coast lawyers may not see it the same way (based on what we've been told about what they can and can't change). Just sayin' .

Agree 100%. That's a fine reason to not change the classes available in the base game, and that's exactly why I only talk about allowing modders to mod this kind of stuff. :-)

Troodon80 said:

I do agree that it's something that modders should be able to do, though. I was going to try and port over some of the cleric classes/kits as well as others from IWD2, but with a lack of time I have had little success. I don't even know if it is currently possible - but if it is hardcoded, then it is likely a waste of my time trying.

Most IWD2 stuff would not be possible.
- Can't do Improved Turning (but there's an opcode request in for that IIRC)
- Can't have a separate page for Domain spells
- Allowing one Cleric kit to use axes would be non-trivial effort
- The skill bonuses are either irrelevant or problematic (Cleric of Mask now gets a Stealth button? Good luck with that. Maybe Mask is only available to dual or multi class Thief/Clerics.)
- The save DC bonuses might be doable, but I don't see how.

The 1/day powers would be the easiest thing to port over, but those were the least interesting and least popular of the IWD2 domain perks.

Cheers! -- N

LadyRhian

@Jalily You'd think that elves and half-elves, being so close to nature, would make natural druids and rangers. But the way that humans think about interacting with nature is not the way that elves (and presumably half-elves) do. The way Druids think about interacting with nature is a very human way. In 2e, they changed that so that Elves and Half-Elves could be Rangers, but only allowed Half-Elves to be Druids. I think it's because Elves have different opinions of what balance in nature is or that they are long-lived enough to know that, unless a forest is being clearcut, eventually nature steps in and takes its own balance, whereas humans are much more proactive and think "Something must be done NOW!" rather than letting nature seek a new level of balance on its own.

Put another way, humans think that an area must stay the same (or as close to it as possible) forever, where Elves are more laid back unless the change is particularly catastrophic. Druids are also about protecting nature from other humans and evil humanoids (who can be needlessly destructive), whereas Elves are about conforming to nature and following its cycles.

Just like Paladins. Paladins can only be human. Why? Other races could have Holy Warriors too, right? But a Paladin is a human conception of a warrior dedicated to a God and going out and fighting for that God (or Goddess, I should add, since there is nothing that says a Paladin can't serve a female Goddess. Like, say, the Red Knight, the female Goddess of Strategy and Tactics. Not just Tyr, Tempus and/or Torm.) The code they follow is a human code that the other races just don't have, which is why Paladins were human only in 1e and 2e. The code is a combination of being a medieval warrior intertwined with the ideals of courtly love- both intensely human notions.

mlnevese

Actually the way I see it both Paladin and Druid are great classes for Elves although they'd have radically different concepts. I won't elaborate or we'll end up completly derailing this thread

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

LadyRhian

@Minevese True, but elven Gods and Goddesses work together. Collectively, they are called the Seldarine. They are closer than human Gods and Goddesses in that way, at least in the way they are portrayed. The main human Gods and Goddesses, even when allied, tend to be a bit more fractious and argumentative with and between each other. So the elves are more pantheistic in outlook as a whole. Whereas many humans pay lip service to other Gods, invoking their names to incite their favor or turn aside their malice, Paladins sort of sneer at this and are dedicated to their God alone and do not do the same. Which, in the end, can turn them into real tools, like when Priests, Crusaders and Paladins of Helm went to Maztica and set up the Temple of Helm at Ulatos. Paladins are supposed to be Lawful Good, but their point in the new world was just like the Crusaders of Spain-converting the populace away from their own Gods and towards Helm. And this becomes more important after the Time of Troubles, when the power of a God was predicated on the number of his worshippers he/she had. You can even kill a God by eliminating all of his/her worshippers and making sure no one remembers his/her name, and even then, it takes thousands of years. Amaunator was considered a dying/dead God after the fall of Netheril because he had been totally forgotten as a power. He was only dimly remembered under the name At'ar by the Bedine, who roamed the desert where the main part of the Netherese Empire once stood. (The desert was once a fairly fertile plain, but the Phaerimm were imprisoned beneath it by the Netherese and in retaliation for their imprisonment, sucked away the life from the land, leaving it a sere desert. Many of them are still there.)

But when the Shadevar city returned from the plain of Deep Shadow, it was discovered that Lathander was an aspect of Amaunator, and so the whole of Amaunator was revived. But Lathander was a Neutral Good version of Amaunator, who had previously been Lawful Neutral, and when revived became Lawful Good because of the influence of Lathander. This happened after the whole Spellplague thing and the rain of Blue Fire. (Which just shows that Gods can change, too.)