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What is the holier option?

OneAngryMushroomOneAngryMushroom Member Posts: 564
edited May 2013 in Archive (General Discussion)
I'm playing ToB as a cavalier and am about to make the final decision and I'm wondering what is the more holy option. Becoming a god of good and use my powers for peace. Or rejecting the powers altogether because they come from an evil source and might corrupt me.
  1. What is the holier option?73 votes
    1. Become benevolent god and use the powers for peace and righteousness.
      46.58%
    2. Bhaal's essence is too evil to be used and should be destroyed.
      39.73%
    3. Sarevok pushes me off the throne and takes it for himself. (I trusted you Sarevok, I trusted you.
      13.70%
Post edited by OneAngryMushroom on
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Comments

  • jfliederjflieder Member Posts: 115
    In my opinion, holiness and righteousness are based upon the notion of putting others and the greater good before yourself. Taking the essence to do good, regardless of your intentions of its utilization, would be putting your judgement above all others in how to implement that power.
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    Trust thy self.... You could always serve another greater god if you don't want to take the lead...
  • OneAngryMushroomOneAngryMushroom Member Posts: 564
    @Samus
    Psilofyr has been known to allow paladins, He's quite a nice fellow if you actually listen to him.
    As if I didn't put up with enough of this from those dwarves while trying to leave underdark. *grumble* typical drow... *mumble*. And we're called Myconids.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    They asked for the "holier" option, eh?

  • O_BruceO_Bruce Member Posts: 2,790
    edited May 2013
    Paladins ought to be a living example and inspiration for people. Protectors of weak and punishers to evil. With that in mind, staying a mortal with all it's flaws, imperfections and temptations to fight, would fit for Paladins' mission much more than becoming all-powerful god who barely does anything. Mortal, who is overcoming his flaws, becomes a living example and a role model for society. Besides that, I don't think that Paladins are people who seek power.

    Edit: ate one letter.
    Post edited by O_Bruce on
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Particularly for a cavalier, whose mission is to seek out and smite evil by any means necessary, I would probably view the bhaal essence as just another tool to be wielded. You understand by now that the divine spark has nothing to do with evil, and that utilizing it yourself will not corrupt you any more than being a child of Bhaal already has. The cavalier would use the divinity in the same way he would use the Holy Avenger: to smite evil, and lead the forces of good to greatness.
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  • MalicronMalicron Member Posts: 629
    Samus said:

    You forgot the option Balthazar proposed, become the last, then commit ritual suicide...

    Wouldn't that just allow Bhaal to rise again? That doesn't strike me as a very Lawful Good thing to do.
  • GandalfPortraitGuyGandalfPortraitGuy Member Posts: 206
    Choose godhood. It's more selfishness to worry about the consequences of making wise decisions out of noble intentions, rather than simply not taking the risk to do more good.

    Depends on the circumstance though.
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    This decision is insignificant. And Tiax will rule anyway.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Any paladin is required to have a minimum wisdom high enough to know that. Not that some pallys wouldn't succumb to temptation and become fallen palllys, blackguard, or, in this case, evil deities.

    Are there any stories about heroes who seek and obtain absolute power, thinking that they can handle it and do good with it, and then actually do? I'm pretty sure our human lore teaches the opposite.
  • JohnSmith921030JohnSmith921030 Member Posts: 10
    edited May 2013
    belgarathmth said:

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Any paladin is required to have a minimum wisdom high enough to know that. Not that some pallys wouldn't succumb to temptation and become fallen palllys, blackguard, or, in this case, evil deities.

    Are there any stories about heroes who seek and obtain absolute power, thinking that they can handle it and do good with it, and then actually do? I'm pretty sure our human lore teaches the opposite.

    Power doesn't corrupt, it merely makes character show his real colors. For example, if your character only follows some loosely defined concept of 'good', because he was taught this concept since his childhood and not because of his own informed decision he made for himself, then he will have greater likelihood of 'falling', because once he becomes god, he will suddenly be above all those influences from the society and will finally start to make his own choices.

    If you mark your own goals in life, if you know, what trying to achieve them entails, than you cannot be corrupted. If a paladin knows, what 'good' really means to him and wants it above all else, than he cannot fail. After all, why would he throw his life's work away, when he can finally accomplish, what he always wanted? For pleasure (common in fallen paladins), or something else? What if his focus simply wouldn't give him a satisfaction in anything else than in fulfilling what he always wanted to achieve?

    To be successful in following your personal code is always about being stubborn, regardless of how much power you possess.


    EDIT: 'Our human lore', if it wants us to live good lives should, instead of telling us how bad power is, tell us how to be ourselves and not simply programmable empty shells.

    So god it is. ;)
  • Officer_HotpantsOfficer_Hotpants Member Posts: 14
    edited May 2013
    Bitch I worship Shar. It would unholy for me NOT to take my rightful place and commit as much murder as I can!
  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 508
    jflieder said:

    In my opinion, holiness and righteousness are based upon the notion of putting others and the greater good before yourself. Taking the essence to do good, regardless of your intentions of its utilization, would be putting your judgement above all others in how to implement that power.

    That's all well and good, but from a roleplay perspective, Paladins in Faerun regularly impose their judgement above others. They have very definite views on right and wrong, and regularly impose those views on people they see as violating those views.
  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 508
    edited May 2013
    Officer_Hotpants said:

    Bitch I worship Shar. It would unholy for me NOT to take my rightful place and commit as much murder as I can!

    Shar is not the goddess of murder. Shar is the goddess of caverns, dark, dungeons, forgetfulness, loss, night, secrets, and the Underdark.
  • TinterTinter Member Posts: 152
    The game makes clear the essence is no longer possesed of any taint- thats the situation, even if it seems a bit odd.

    The alternative to using it to become a force for good is that it just gets disposed of- clearly, this is a lot of power and can do a lot to make the realms a better place.

    In terms of corruption, as a new, good FR deity you will get a portfolio and an alignment. You won't be corrupted by this, but rather transformed. You stop being a petty mortal able to be corrupted by this and that. Rather, you become something more like the living embodiment of your ideals and your portfolio. So long as your ideals and portfolio are good, then you will do good, by and large.
  • Officer_HotpantsOfficer_Hotpants Member Posts: 14
    Amberion said:

    Officer_Hotpants said:

    Bitch I worship Shar. It would unholy for me NOT to take my rightful place and commit as much murder as I can!

    Shar is not the goddess of murder. Shar is the goddess of caverns, dark, dungeons, forgetfulness, loss, night, secrets, and the Underdark.
    I realize that, but she's still evil. What's holier than becoming a god, so you can meet the god you worship, become best friends with them, and work together to become even more powerful? That's right. What will be so proud of me when we reach the most-powerful-god/goddess status, and then I stab her in the back, just as a truly evil god would do.

  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,387
    I've played it both ways, really no strong feelings on it.
  • RemenissionsRemenissions Member Posts: 102
    You honestly could do it either way. I would pick the option to take the powers as a paladin just because that's the kind of paladin i play. One that strives to become stronger to kill the stronger evils. You could be a paladin that is committed to a certain order and is content with their standing in society as just being a exceptional paladin that follows what his superiors (as far as political standing) tell them. As atcDave said, I have also played both ways, first with a normal paladin (chose to reject the powers), and second as a Undead Hunter (didn't realize until SoA how awesome they could be) (chose to accept powers to become a god that seeks the destruction of all undead and necromancers). The options are really just whatever you want to do. It's like how a D&D character ends, it's what they go on to do after you've built them up from a nobody to something that isn't really playable anymore. As much as I'd love a Baldur's Gate epilogue where you could wage war against enemy gods until you become a supreme god, then have the game end when a new profecized hero takes your position. OR maybe the end of it is a choice where you allow a child to live and become the new supreme god (since you being supreme would likely allow you to know when the child that would kill you was born), or allow it to grow up knowing that it is wrong and not naturally balanced for one conscious to rule with absolute authority forever.
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Amberion said:

    Shar is not the goddess of murder. Shar is the goddess of caverns, dark, dungeons, forgetfulness, loss, night, secrets, and the Underdark.

    Shar is also a primal deity forged from the black nothingness that was before Ao created everything. She longs to return to that time, where everything is consumed in shrouded nothingness, back to a time where all was in nonexistence. She schemes from the shadows to tear down establishments, destroy order, and undermine all creation. I'm sure she would approve of acts of random (chaotic) violence and death as long as it wasn't targeted at her clergy. Her dogma actually flat out promotes the murder of agents of Selune as well as the destruction of items tied to that goddess.
  • Officer_HotpantsOfficer_Hotpants Member Posts: 14
    Boom, lawyer'd! XD
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited May 2013
    After reading Avatar and Trial of the Cyric the Mad series, I came to understand that, once a mortal becomes a god in the realms, he or she is heavily chained down by his portfolios and responsibilities.

    In the books, Midnight is a good aligned mage when she is a human, and when she becomes the new Mystra, she still tries to do good and prevent the evil of the Cyric, but she was punished by the other gods and prevented from interfering, since Cyric's evil schemes were not directly involved with Mystra's responsibilities to magic or portfolios. Cyric on the other hand, had a free run to set horrible plans in motion and each time he was defeated, he got a free-pass, for doing evil, trickery, betrayal, murder etc. were all his speciality and portfolio. He was expected to try and kill other gods and inflict suffering on mortals, by his own status as a god!

    Later, Kelemvor, once a human with strong good tendencies, who upheld honour and commitment, was forced to change his total outlook to suit his new status as the God of the dead better. Because he was too benevolent to the brave and noble mortals when they die and come to his realm, the realms were having troubles. Because, all noble fighters were too brave and reckless in their battles, for they knew that if they die, Kelemvor will treat them real good. In reverse, all evil guys were too scared to try their schemes and risk death, for when they die, they know Kelemvor will punish them severely. In small time, Realms were troubled, good people were wasting their lives easily on hopeless battles and evil people were hiding and running away all the time. Kelemvor had to reform himself and became a much more stern, neutral god.

    So, I think Bhaal essence should be destroyed, for if a good aligned PC becomes the new god, he will be chained down by the portfolio of Murder and have trouble to keep his good, noble side for long. Or he will risk punishment from other gods and cause much havoc and chaos in the Realms.
  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    Everyone has their own opinion, what is good and what is holy. Choosing third option just because I think this decision us purely up to you and no one else can solve it for you.
  • OneAngryMushroomOneAngryMushroom Member Posts: 564
    Samus said:

    mlnevese said:

    @Samus We have a Beholder Paladin in the forum... what's your problems with Fungi? :)

    Perhaps I like eating them...
    D:
  • NifftNifft Member Posts: 1,065
    Southpaw said:

    Everyone has their own opinion, what is good and what is holy. Choosing third option just because I think this decision us purely up to you and no one else can solve it for you.

    What is holy is the will of your god.

    By becoming a god, I can define what is holy (for my worshipers).

    Man, I need more worshipers...
  • FrecheFreche Member Posts: 473
    But do you think your god will approve that you raise yourself to godhood, potentially stealing worshipers from him/her.

    Considering if you have followed a particular god your ideas and vision should be similar, which increases the chance that you steal his worshipers.
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