@Pecca. You're welcome. I'm glad you liked it. Sometimes certain portraits really strike me because they seem to fit some characters in the game much better than the originals. For me, they improve the atmosphere of the game. I think we've got to thank the artist at the link I indicated also for making such great work freely available to us. That really takes a love of what they're doing.
This portrait looks more like an elf fighter - which Khalid is - than the original, and it looks more like a guy a strong woman like Jaheira would marry. Frankly, the original portrait only shows a scared guy in armor, but leaves out everything else. As elf, he's supposed to be handsome and charismatic and not a Monty Python extra.
Um. First of all Khalid isn't an elf. He's a half-elf.
Second of all, he isn't supposed to be "handsome and charismatic", the guy has a Charisma score of 9!
As was mentioned in the above post, Khalid is not some dashing elven swordsman (since he is of course a half-elf for starters)... the guy has a speech impediment caused by low self esteem (implied) and a charisma score of 9.
I also don't really know where the whole "he's a great swordsman" sentiment is coming from... when you first recruit Khalid (at level 1) Montaron has a better Thac0 and AC then him, and he also uses a sword.
While I like the portrait @franco posted I don't really feel that it captures any of the essence of Khalid. Mostly for his handsomeness, cocky look/stance and his elven features seemed too pronounced for a Half-Elf.
Oi gewalt. I knew that there would be a number of members who wouldn't like the picture. But thank you all for commenting, because it's good to know ones thoughts. I am pleased though to know that a few members would like to use it.
Charisma means more "ability to influence people" than "dazzling beauty" to me. Khalid isn't very good at talking, hence he's likely a bad liar, gets nervous when dealing with authorities, doesn't feel comfortable as a leader... that gives him 9 charisma, not his physical appearance. Basically, I see him as the guy who is approached by attractive women on a party, and as soon as he opens his mouth (while nervously looking at his shoes), they excuse themselves to the bathroom and never come back.
@KidCarnival. As you say his physical appearance itself might be good enough for attractive women at a party to approach him, but they might leave as he is uncomfortable with the situation. Yet, he has an INT of 15, very rare for a man with a sword. I'm sure a pretty intelligent woman might stay for awhile thinking this combination in the man represents some real potential.
Incidentally, his intelligence and his sword tend to stand out in the portrait.
@franco: Yeah, an intelligent woman might stay for a while, just not on a party when she wants to flirt or just small talk/chit chat and Khalid reacts like he's neither comfortable being approached, nor does he warm up quickly. It would take a different setting to see his qualities, and more time to get to know him. I mainly meant that I don't think he's ugly, just that 9 charisma can also mean "handsome but (at first) boring".
@franco: Yeah, an intelligent woman might stay for a while, just not on a party when she wants to flirt or just small talk/chit chat and Khalid reacts like he's neither comfortable being approached, nor does he warm up quickly. It would take a different setting to see his qualities, and more time to get to know him. I mainly meant that I don't think he's ugly, just that 9 charisma can also mean "handsome but (at first) boring".
Sure, 9 charisma CAN mean that in some rare cases but since we have an official picture of Khalid we know that's not the case.
Well, Franco uses a different picture specifically to gain a new perspective on NPCs, so for him, this can absolutely be the case now. I couldn't help but make Kivan an archer due to his portrait. When I changed it, it changed the way I played him. I see no reason why the same shouldn't work for other NPCs.
A lot people change Coran's portrait because his original picture looks weird, and like him much better due to the new look. Sure you can interpret Coran as "extremly smooth talker who can charm people despite having no chin", but it makes just as much sense to use a portrait that fits better with the idea of "handsome".
Yeah but both of those examples have some sort of backing from the character. Sure Kivan has a bow in his picture but he comes with 2 pips in Halberd and one equipped. Also, Coran has 16 charisma and is presented as a smooth-talking ladies man type character. Changing his portrait to one you find easier on the eyes still makes sense.
There is nothing about Khalid that suggests he is dashingly handsome.
I was going to show the portrait that I use for Coran here, but it's probably redundant for this conversation. It's been an interesting back and forth on this thread, with each argument imho having both objective as well as subjective elements. But after all, that is what Art is all about. Good input everybody.
There is nothing about Khalid that suggests he is dashingly handsome.
I don't view the portrait I'm using for Khalid as dashingly handsome. In fact it seems a little frail compared to some of the fighters in BG. But I see him as Intelligent and kind and a bit elegant as half elven and a capable swordsman. The portrait itself I feel conveys more of the atmosphere of the game that I wish to be playing.
There's a difference between "dashingly handsome" and "not hideously ugly". Nothing in the game suggests Khalid is either. My logic is that every kind of character can have high charisma, yet the definition of beauty or attractiveness varies from person to person. Therefore, charisma has to be more than looks, otherwise a dwarf, for example, would have 18 charisma to another dwarf, but 6 charisma to an elf. Since it doesn't work that way, the looks can only play a minor role and other interpretations of Khalid's 9 charisma make sense.
@Kilivitz: Well I only made small one, because that's where I need color tones and aspect ratios to be similar. I usually leave character screen portraits untouched. But I sure can do the large one, if you like. I only hope that I remember all the steps I did.
Yeah, I should have started with large portraits and then make small ones from them. But it seemed easier at first. Now I have a bunch of edited small portraits and making them all large versions would take some time.
There's a difference between "dashingly handsome" and "not hideously ugly". Nothing in the game suggests Khalid is either. My logic is that every kind of character can have high charisma, yet the definition of beauty or attractiveness varies from person to person. Therefore, charisma has to be more than looks, otherwise a dwarf, for example, would have 18 charisma to another dwarf, but 6 charisma to an elf. Since it doesn't work that way, the looks can only play a minor role and other interpretations of Khalid's 9 charisma make sense.
What makes you think he is hideously ugly? His official portrait? Well then yes there is something in the game to suggest that.
I think that's a little harsh personally, I'm not a Khalid fan by any means but I wouldn't call the dude a hideous chud or anything.
I agree charisma is more than just looks but looks do factor into the equation. There really aren't too many interpretations of Khalids charisma, I feel the game does a pretty thurough job of presenting why he has a 9 charisma.
Charisma means more "ability to influence people" than "dazzling beauty" to me. Khalid isn't very good at talking, hence he's likely a bad liar, gets nervous when dealing with authorities, doesn't feel comfortable as a leader... that gives him 9 charisma, not his physical appearance. Basically, I see him as the guy who is approached by attractive women on a party, and as soon as he opens his mouth (while nervously looking at his shoes), they excuse themselves to the bathroom and never come back.
It can mean beauty also, I guess for female characters according to BG2's female stats (Viconia, Aerie, ...)
Who can pretend Aerie is charismatic ? Cute, why not, but charismatic ?
@KidCarnival. As you say his physical appearance itself might be good enough for attractive women at a party to approach him, but they might leave as he is uncomfortable with the situation. Yet, he has an INT of 15, very rare for a man with a sword. I'm sure a pretty intelligent woman might stay for awhile thinking this combination in the man represents some real potential.
Incidentally, his intelligence and his sword tend to stand out in the portrait.
Though he found a dumb-ass woman with only 10 intelligence IIRC ^_^
(dum-ass to AD&D standards I mean, since he has 5 more intelligence than jaheira :-o )
@Aasimar069 said: "It can mean beauty also, I guess for female characters according to BG2's female stats (Viconia, Aerie, ...) Who can pretend Aerie is charismatic ? Cute, why not, but charismatic ?"
I believe that all the stats are in reality combinations of abilities.
For example, there are two kinds of DEX. Depending on the situation, the game really changes the definition that applies. There is DEX for opening locks (Manual manipulation), or the DEX for Dodging or Hiding (graceful command of your whole body). WIS often is meant to mean either Wisdom or Will. Related in ways but really different concepts. CHA, obviously Commanding Presence or Comeliness (or even Pleasing Performer). CON can mean toughness of body so it relates to hit points, but it can also mean Health which a relatively thin and delicate person might sometimes have in spades.
We have basically six primary stats in the game. If we wanted to describe each attribute with total realism though, we would probably end up with more than 12. The game would become a bit too complicated to play and the devil to distribute stat points when we rolled up. I think good game design tends to distil a number of ideas into a few basic ones, so the game becomes fascinating and real-like but playable.
We should all bear in mind that the stats can mean more than one thing when we disagree about subjects such as portraits etc. I once knew a family where the male members would be up all night in an argument about someone who actually committed a crime, but was found innocent by a jury. Was he really guilty? Obviously, they argued for hours over two different definitions of the word.
@Aasimar069. I think Jaheria's WIS 14 more than makes up for her INT 10. I don't think I would mind that kind of woman at all. With that kind of WIS score, a marriage might last a long time.
Comments
Second of all, he isn't supposed to be "handsome and charismatic", the guy has a Charisma score of 9!
edit: although yeah - obviously not charismatic
I also don't really know where the whole "he's a great swordsman" sentiment is coming from... when you first recruit Khalid (at level 1) Montaron has a better Thac0 and AC then him, and he also uses a sword.
While I like the portrait @franco posted I don't really feel that it captures any of the essence of Khalid. Mostly for his handsomeness, cocky look/stance and his elven features seemed too pronounced for a Half-Elf.
Incidentally, his intelligence and his sword tend to stand out in the portrait.
A lot people change Coran's portrait because his original picture looks weird, and like him much better due to the new look. Sure you can interpret Coran as "extremly smooth talker who can charm people despite having no chin", but it makes just as much sense to use a portrait that fits better with the idea of "handsome".
There is nothing about Khalid that suggests he is dashingly handsome.
My logic is that every kind of character can have high charisma, yet the definition of beauty or attractiveness varies from person to person. Therefore, charisma has to be more than looks, otherwise a dwarf, for example, would have 18 charisma to another dwarf, but 6 charisma to an elf. Since it doesn't work that way, the looks can only play a minor role and other interpretations of Khalid's 9 charisma make sense.
I think that's a little harsh personally, I'm not a Khalid fan by any means but I wouldn't call the dude a hideous chud or anything.
I agree charisma is more than just looks but looks do factor into the equation. There really aren't too many interpretations of Khalids charisma, I feel the game does a pretty thurough job of presenting why he has a 9 charisma.
Who can pretend Aerie is charismatic ? Cute, why not, but charismatic ?
(dum-ass to AD&D standards I mean, since he has 5 more intelligence than jaheira :-o )
"It can mean beauty also, I guess for female characters according to BG2's female stats (Viconia, Aerie, ...)
Who can pretend Aerie is charismatic ? Cute, why not, but charismatic ?"
I believe that all the stats are in reality combinations of abilities.
For example, there are two kinds of DEX. Depending on the situation, the game really changes the definition that applies. There is DEX for opening locks (Manual manipulation), or the DEX for Dodging or Hiding (graceful command of your whole body). WIS often is meant to mean either Wisdom or Will. Related in ways but really different concepts. CHA, obviously Commanding Presence or Comeliness (or even Pleasing Performer). CON can mean toughness of body so it relates to hit points, but it can also mean Health which a relatively thin and delicate person might sometimes have in spades.
We have basically six primary stats in the game. If we wanted to describe each attribute with total realism though, we would probably end up with more than 12. The game would become a bit too complicated to play and the devil to distribute stat points when we rolled up. I think good game design tends to distil a number of ideas into a few basic ones, so the game becomes fascinating and real-like but playable.
We should all bear in mind that the stats can mean more than one thing when we disagree about subjects such as portraits etc. I once knew a family where the male members would be up all night in an argument about someone who actually committed a crime, but was found innocent by a jury. Was he really guilty? Obviously, they argued for hours over two different definitions of the word.