If the thief can be dual classed it will most likely be either through wisdom/cleric, or strength/fighter. We already have: Jan, Imoen and Nalia as a thief/mage.
Assassin/Cleric - would be a good option with lot's of potential. Ex-cleric of Bhaal turned to Cyric?
Sorry, but is it already certain that the new party member is female?
I don't know. I had read the new NCP would be an evil thief, but no information about race and gender. I hope she'll be a female since three out four of the new characters so far were male. I think he/she will be a Shadowdancer since it's a new kit. But I'd like an assassin, too.
@Lisaralin I agree with you that she'll probably be a Shadowdancer, since it's a new kit and appeals to 3rd edition players. I'd much rather have an Assassin for BG2, as they reach their fullest potential--both in backstabbing and thief skills--during the end of SoA/early ToB. And also, what better thief kit for an evil party than an Assassin?
My preference would be a human female with Lawful Evil alignment.
Maybe it's an unpopular opinion but I'd like her to be a fighter/thief multiclass.
First of all, many players like multiclass characters. They bring something extra, you always have a choice how you will use them, choosing between different abilities. Should I use her thieving skills? Do I really need a backstab to kill this monster? Or should I put the heaviest plate on her to survive this particular fight? Or should she set a trap and afterwards lure an enemy to it and finish him as a pure fighter?
Secondly, this can give her some Shar-Teel's strength and spirit, some Coran's versatility and take away all cons of giving only one dimension that can take place if she's a Shadowdancer or an Assassin.
Thirdly, the existing multiclass NPCs are very popular - Aerie, Jaheira, Jan in BG2, Coran, Montaron, Quale in BG1, so another multiclass NPC that has no alternative between NPCs in BG2 is a good addition. Also it can bring something new in the sence that Dorn, Neera and Rasaad are all special kits and by giving us a multiclass NPC the Devs can show the variety they're capable of: it would feel special to find a good written and a balanced new multiclass character that can stand in a row with BG's finest multiclass NPCs.
Furthermore, this particular combination is very attractive - you can put on a helmet, use two-weapon fighting style, have additional APR and still be a thief that has no downsides. A good THACO helps greatly as far as backstabs are concerned.
Finally, a combination of fighters' and thieves' HLAs can be a reason this character continues to shine in ToB.
And to make this character special the Devs can give her a useful ability - for example, to become invisible once per day.
ppl long for a pure thief for a long time already @bengoshi, Jan is already multi-class Thief/Mage. I would prefer a pure thief human with enough stat points to dual class if so i prefer.
I don't see anything you lose if she's a multiclass F/T and not a pure thief. On the contrary, not only she doesn't stop developing as a thief, her fighter traits help massively when you talk about using a thief in a fight. It's a very natural combination - a fighter part helps to become a brilliant thief. There's been a good discussion here.
And a multiclass F/T has nothing in common with a multiclass M/T (Jan) - it's very hard to use Jan as a backstabber and also he's much better as a mage than in melee.
Sorry, but is it already certain that the new party member is female?
For me, it's 100% certain - the Devs have told us we can expect a F+F relationship so I think an evil thief is ideal here - Neera's romance is bound to male only.
And also, what better thief kit for an evil party than an Assassin?
Well, from my point of view, a multiclass F/T fits more than greatly. Somebody who's like Annah-of-the-Shadows - she attacks her enemies when they least expect it, she has no tolerance for fools or the clueless, and is quite skilled at teaching those who annoy her. It's more a matter of this new NPC's personality, portrait, and maybe even race ;-) that defines if she's a good thief for an evil party.
First of all, many players like multiclass characters. They bring something extra, you always have a choice how you will use them, choosing between different abilities. Should I use her thieving skills? Do I really need a backstab to kill this monster? Or should I put the heaviest plate on her to survive this particular fight? Or should she set a trap and afterwards lure an enemy to it and finish him as a pure fighter?
Thirdly, the existing multiclass NPCs are very popular - Aerie, Jaheira, Jan in BG2, Coran, Montaron, Quale in BG1, so another multiclass NPC that has no alternative between NPCs in BG2 is a good addition.
See, I would've arrived at the opposite conclusion: the game has so many dual- and multi-class characters already, do we really need another one? If this is going to be the only new character added in BG2:EE, wouldn't it be better if she offered something we didn't already have?
I don't see anything you lose if she's a multiclass F/T and not a pure thief. On the contrary, not only she doesn't stop developing as a thief, her fighter traits help massively when you talk about using a thief in a fight. It's a very natural combination - a fighter part helps to become a brilliant thief. There's been a good discussion here.
The problem is that multiclass characters, by their very nature, advance more slowly than specialists. And seeing as how she's going to be the only viable thief for evil parties, I think the person she has to beat is Yoshimo, not Jan.
For me, it's 100% certain - the Devs have told us we can expect a F+F relationship so I think an evil thief is ideal here - Neera's romance is bound to male only.
Not necessarily; the romances in BG:EE aren't binding in that way, because you can activate all three simultaneously (by using the Gender belt to trigger the dialogues for each character). I think they'll only be "locked in" during BG2:EE, so there's still time to add a female option for Neera if that's what the devs are intending.
Well, from my point of view, a multiclass F/T fits more than greatly. Somebody who's like Annah-of-the-Shadows - she attacks her enemies when they least expect it, she has no tolerance for fools or the clueless, and is quite skilled at teaching those who annoy her.
Not a great example, though; Annah isn't Evil. Like most of the Nameless One's party, she's Chaotic Neutral.
@Bubbleboy: It's sort of aggregated from various comments the developers have made on Twitter, here and Reddit over several months.
Trent Oster: BG2 needs a good single class thief. Yeah, and she should be cool, not irritating.
Phillip Daigle (in response to a tweet specifically requesting an evil thief in BG2:EE): Baeloth might have a cameo in BG2EE. We have a fourth NPC planned that may be relevant to your interests.
Nathan Willis: We're told that there's not nearly enough evil thieves in Baldur's Gate 2. We'll try and address that in BG2:EE
Really can't decide... Assassin, Shadw Dancer and Swashbuckler all sound great for me. I don't really do dualclassing NPCs either, so non-human would be preferable for me, but really not a big deal if not. All 3 kits have great possibilities in them, both gameplay and story-wise. As others said before: assissin could be some1 sent after you, swashbuckler could be a witty, evil pirate, shadow dancer could be some infamous, cold killer with mystical powers from the shadow thieves. Like I said: all sounds great for me. Wish we could have all... (maybe not all of them evil in this case...)
Don't care too godawful much, though I would certainly lean towards an Assassin. With a Race that isn't Human so there's no dual-classing. Yeah, I said it, go ahead and shoot me.
Halfling or Gnome pure thief, either of Assassin or Bounty Hunter kit (and just thief rather than another kit artery those). No ability to dual class as to not pander to the power gamers.
Halfling or Gnome pure thief, either of Assassin or Bounty Hunter kit (and just thief rather than another kit artery those). No ability to dual class as to not pander to the power gamers.
What is it about dual classing that is pandering to power gamers? Dual classing gives a character choice and versatility.
Consider Xzar in BG1. He's a fine mage but if the player so chooses he can be developed in a completely different direction that is still very fitting to his theme. It can be argued quite easily that it's very fitting in RP terms for him to be dual classed to cleric given his fascination with death and necromancy.
Dual classing is one method to create depth in a character which many players enjoy. The option to dual class also greatly increases replayability in terms of getting a different experience with the character when you dual class her and when you don't. Equally, many do not like dual classing (mostly the "down time" aspect") but luckily it isn't a requirement to dual class any character so the view can easily be taken that it's better to please more people rather than less, no?
Don't get me wrong though, I hope that there is plenty of depth in the new character whether or not she can dual class, I just do hope that this is one option that will be available to me to create a varied play experience.
Consider Xzar in BG1. He's a fine mage but if the player so chooses he can be developed in a completely different direction that is still very fitting to his theme. It can be argued quite easily that it's very fitting in RP terms for him to be dual classed to cleric given his fascination with death and necromancy.
What does fascination with necromancy have to do with being a cleric? Xzar never talks about gods and certainly doesn't seem the worshipful type seeing as how he's more of a "mad scientist" (ie: implanting elven eyes because he wants infravision).
Dual classing is one method to create depth in a character which many players enjoy. The option to dual class also greatly increases replayability in terms of getting a different experience with the character when you dual class her and when you don't. Equally, many do not like dual classing (mostly the "down time" aspect") but luckily it isn't a requirement to dual class any character so the view can easily be taken that it's better to please more people rather than less, no?
I think this argument is becoming much more complicated than it needs to be. What it comes down to is this: the whole point of the EE NPCs is to provide types of party members who weren't available in the original games. There were no half-orcs before Dorn, no Wild Mages before Neera, no Monks before Rasaad (unless you were playing with "Ascension" and got Balthazar to join you at the end of ToB) and no Sorcerers before Baeloth. It stands to reason, then, that the fifth and final new NPC should also be of a type that didn't exist beforehand. The BG games have never had any female gnomes or dwarves (because, as @Dee pointed out, the sprites for those particular configurations just didn't exist until the EE's integration of 1PP), and I'd much rather see that than have the new character be human just so she can be dual-classed.
@Wowo - Possibly. Most of all though, it gives a character power, both from the double classes and the fact that to dual-class a character has to be pretty powerful to begin with.
Consider Xzar in BG1. He's a fine mage but if the player so chooses he can be developed in a completely different direction that is still very fitting to his theme. It can be argued quite easily that it's very fitting in RP terms for him to be dual classed to cleric given his fascination with death and necromancy.
What does fascination with necromancy have to do with being a cleric? Xzar never talks about gods and certainly doesn't seem the worshipful type seeing as how he's more of a "mad scientist" (ie: implanting elven eyes because he wants infravision).
Dual classing is one method to create depth in a character which many players enjoy. The option to dual class also greatly increases replayability in terms of getting a different experience with the character when you dual class her and when you don't. Equally, many do not like dual classing (mostly the "down time" aspect") but luckily it isn't a requirement to dual class any character so the view can easily be taken that it's better to please more people rather than less, no?
I think this argument is becoming much more complicated than it needs to be. What it comes down to is this: the whole point of the EE NPCs is to provide types of party members who weren't available in the original games. There were no half-orcs before Dorn, no Wild Mages before Neera, no Monks before Rasaad (unless you were playing with "Ascension" and got Balthazar to join you at the end of ToB) and no Sorcerers before Baeloth. It stands to reason, then, that the fifth and final new NPC should also be of a type that didn't exist beforehand. The BG games have never had any female gnomes or dwarves (because, as @Dee pointed out, the sprites for those particular configurations just didn't exist until the EE's integration of 1PP), and I'd much rather see that than have the new character be human just so she can be dual-classed.
Technically, standard DnD rules don't require a patron... They can follow a cause. In Faerun that makes you faithless I think, which has... Consequences. Involving a wall. Soooo yeah. But anyways, a cleric is generally better at big necromancy effects. Not necessarily in bg though.
What does fascination with necromancy have to do with being a cleric? Xzar never talks about gods and certainly doesn't seem the worshipful type seeing as how he's more of a "mad scientist" (ie: implanting elven eyes because he wants infravision).
Divine spells (not divination) have more deep insight in necromancy than Arcane spells, BG don't work much this balance, but animate death being an 3° divine spell and a 5° arcane spells shows a bit of this issue.
The prestige class Pale Master is a pretty good example of this argument.
I think this argument is becoming much more complicated than it needs to be. What it comes down to is this: the whole point of the EE NPCs is to provide types of party members who weren't available in the original games. There were no half-orcs before Dorn, no Wild Mages before Neera, no Monks before Rasaad (unless you were playing with "Ascension" and got Balthazar to join you at the end of ToB) and no Sorcerers before Baeloth. It stands to reason, then, that the fifth and final new NPC should also be of a type that didn't exist beforehand. The BG games have never had any female gnomes or dwarves (because, as @Dee pointed out, the sprites for those particular configurations just didn't exist until the EE's integration of 1PP), and I'd much rather see that than have the new character be human just so she can be dual-classed.
We do not need to fill quotes, it's not like we need an human, half-elf, orc... asian, african, an indian, someone with down syndrome and a gay to make everyone feel better, this isn't a circus (maybe quayle disagree...), the objective is to make a nice game, not a politically correct game.
No offense meant in this statement, just to asure. Unless you're a radical of politically correct!
Technically, standard DnD rules don't require a patron... They can follow a cause. In Faerun that makes you faithless I think, which has... Consequences. Involving a wall. Soooo yeah. But anyways, a cleric is generally better at big necromancy effects. Not necessarily in bg though.
This rule does not apply to the Forgotten Realms setting, however. There the clerics need to serve gods to gain spells.
We do not need to fill quotes, it's not like we need an human, half-elf, orc... asian, african, an indian, someone with down syndrome and a gay to make everyone feel better, this isn't a circus (maybe quayle disagree...), the objective is to make a nice game, not a politically correct game.
No offense meant in this statement, just to asure. Unless you're a radical of politically correct!
It's not about filling a quota for the sake of "pc" (which wouldn't even apply as a concept to situation to begin with), it's about shorties being cooler than the others and it not being enough of them in the game.
For me, I kind of hope that it is a Female Drow Assassin that you pick up somewhere just after Spellhold. This would give a viable option to the whole scenario wherein you keep Yoshimo up through that point but don't want to take on Imoen again. Since you are given basically two motivations for tracking down Irenicus in the beginning, that of either rescuing Imoen or killing him, you could go the second route and not worry about Imoen at all.
I was also thinking that they could do a multi-class Deep Gnome wizard(Illuisionist)/thief, but then he would be too close to Jan.
I considered briefly that they might throw in a rogue thief (pun intended) or Shadow Dancer from the shadow-thieves guild only taking their side in things is intended to be the "good" path. You wouldn't (potentially) encounter the thief if you sided with Bodhi.
Of course they might be monitoring these very forums, looking for ideas??? Nah, I am sure they have it all mapped out already. Still, its nice to dream.
Comments
Assassin/Cleric - would be a good option with lot's of potential. Ex-cleric of Bhaal turned to Cyric?
I hope she'll be a female since three out four of the new characters so far were male.
I think he/she will be a Shadowdancer since it's a new kit. But I'd like an assassin, too.
My preference would be a human female with Lawful Evil alignment.
And a multiclass F/T has nothing in common with a multiclass M/T (Jan) - it's very hard to use Jan as a backstabber and also he's much better as a mage than in melee. For me, it's 100% certain - the Devs have told us we can expect a F+F relationship so I think an evil thief is ideal here - Neera's romance is bound to male only. Well, from my point of view, a multiclass F/T fits more than greatly. Somebody who's like Annah-of-the-Shadows - she attacks her enemies when they least expect it, she has no tolerance for fools or the clueless, and is quite skilled at teaching those who annoy her. It's more a matter of this new NPC's personality, portrait, and maybe even race ;-) that defines if she's a good thief for an evil party.
Trent Oster: BG2 needs a good single class thief. Yeah, and she should be cool, not irritating.
Phillip Daigle (in response to a tweet specifically requesting an evil thief in BG2:EE): Baeloth might have a cameo in BG2EE. We have a fourth NPC planned that may be relevant to your interests.
Nathan Willis: We're told that there's not nearly enough evil thieves in Baldur's Gate 2. We'll try and address that in BG2:EE
Like I said: all sounds great for me. Wish we could have all...
Consider Xzar in BG1. He's a fine mage but if the player so chooses he can be developed in a completely different direction that is still very fitting to his theme. It can be argued quite easily that it's very fitting in RP terms for him to be dual classed to cleric given his fascination with death and necromancy.
Dual classing is one method to create depth in a character which many players enjoy. The option to dual class also greatly increases replayability in terms of getting a different experience with the character when you dual class her and when you don't. Equally, many do not like dual classing (mostly the "down time" aspect") but luckily it isn't a requirement to dual class any character so the view can easily be taken that it's better to please more people rather than less, no?
Don't get me wrong though, I hope that there is plenty of depth in the new character whether or not she can dual class, I just do hope that this is one option that will be available to me to create a varied play experience.
Possibly. Most of all though, it gives a character power, both from the double classes and the fact that to dual-class a character has to be pretty powerful to begin with.
The prestige class Pale Master is a pretty good example of this argument.
We do not need to fill quotes, it's not like we need an human, half-elf, orc... asian, african, an indian, someone with down syndrome and a gay to make everyone feel better, this isn't a circus (maybe quayle disagree...), the objective is to make a nice game, not a politically correct game.
No offense meant in this statement, just to asure. Unless you're a radical of politically correct!
I was also thinking that they could do a multi-class Deep Gnome wizard(Illuisionist)/thief, but then he would be too close to Jan.
I considered briefly that they might throw in a rogue thief (pun intended) or Shadow Dancer from the shadow-thieves guild only taking their side in things is intended to be the "good" path. You wouldn't (potentially) encounter the thief if you sided with Bodhi.
Of course they might be monitoring these very forums, looking for ideas??? Nah, I am sure they have it all mapped out already. Still, its nice to dream.
Obs: Unless the modders desire to make Phaere an joinable NPC.
After Spellhold can be a bit too late for an evil NPC thief joins, we need him/her early.