I hate to sound like a moron, but what exactly is this thread a reference to? Has someone confirmed that we're getting a new thief companion in Baldur's Gate II Enhanced Edition? If so, when did they do so? I couldn't find it (again, possibly because of moronality).
I hate to sound like a moron, but what exactly is this thread a reference to? Has someone confirmed that we're getting a new thief companion in Baldur's Gate II Enhanced Edition? If so, when did they do so? I couldn't find it (again, possibly because of moronality).
I don't know if it was a confirmation, perse, but I do recall a promise of an evil thief. The assumption is female, to round out the EE companion genders. Can't find the thread, though. Although, Dee is in here talking about "her" as though it was a given, so I can assume that if the devs are talking about it on the forums it must be a reality.
They confirmed that an Female character with bissexual romance option will be added in BG2. I believe the thief class is already confirmed also. The own devs spread rumors that she will be evil apparently.
I wouldn't mind this, but I think the biggest holes in the game's roster right now is the lack of a pure Thief, the lack of non-elven female romance options, and the low number of Evil NPCs. An Evil Female Thief that is bisexual fixes 2 out of the 3, and so I'm hoping they go for a hat trick and make her a human, half-orc, or dwarf.
I wouldn't mind this, but I think the biggest holes in the game's roster right now is the lack of a pure Thief.
I know what you're trying to say, but that's like saying BG2 game lacks a pure Paladin, a pure bard, or a pure ranger.
I believe by "pure" the poster meant single classed. BG2 has Keldorn... kit or no he's still a pure paladin the same goes for Haer Dalis Blade (single classed bard, and Valygar a stalker (single classed ranger).
If you want a Paladin, you have Keldorn. If you want a bard, you have Haer'Dalis. If you want a Ranger, you have Minsc. These are not "vanilla" examples of their respective classes, but they can fulfill those functions in a party. In some cases, they're better than the pure option - Keldorn's dispelling ability is particularly needed when you face high-level mages.
I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand: There are no Evil thieves. There are no Evil characters with thieving skills. There are no compatible alternatives besides Yoshimo, who can't stay on past a certain point in the game.
I wouldn't mind this, but I think the biggest holes in the game's roster right now is the lack of a pure Thief.
I know what you're trying to say, but that's like saying BG2 game lacks a pure Paladin, a pure bard, or a pure ranger.
I believe by "pure" the poster meant single classed. BG2 has Keldorn... kit or no he's still a pure paladin the same goes for Haer Dalis Blade (single classed bard, and Valygar a stalker (single classed ranger).
I knew what he meant, hence "I know what you're trying to say". I'm just trying to figure out why acting like Yoshimo doesn't exist. Do understand that he said, "lack of a pure Thief." He exists in the game, even if he's only available for half of the game. Therefore there IS a pure thief in the game.
@BobC: I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand: There are no Evil thieves. There are no Evil characters with thieving skills. There are no compatible alternatives besides Yoshimo, who can't stay on past a certain point in the game.
Don't know what a character's alignment have anything to do with what I said. I was merely stating that a pure thief (Yoshimo) does exist in BG2. No need to get angry.
I wouldn't mind this, but I think the biggest holes in the game's roster right now is the lack of a pure Thief.
I know what you're trying to say, but that's like saying BG2 game lacks a pure Paladin, a pure bard, or a pure ranger.
I believe by "pure" the poster meant single classed. BG2 has Keldorn... kit or no he's still a pure paladin the same goes for Haer Dalis Blade (single classed bard, and Valygar a stalker (single classed ranger).
Then Yoshimo must not exist. Do understand that he said, "lack of a pure Thief." He exists in the game, even if he's only available for half of the game.
@BobC: I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand: There are no Evil thieves. There are no Evil characters with thieving skills. There are no compatible alternatives besides Yoshimo, who can't stay on past a certain point in the game.
Don't know what a character's alignment have anything to do with what I said. I was merely stating that a pure thief (Yoshimo) does exist in BG2. No need to get angry.
The fact that Yoshimo is not a permanent npc is enough justification for a single classed thief added to the game. The fact that we have no evil thief options at all is justification for the thief to be evil.
"Pure class" or "vanilla class" = single-class Thief with no kit
"Thief" = single class, kit or no kit
This is not correct.
The reason people use the term "pure" class has NOTHING to do with whether or not a character has a kit but because specifically BG2 has NO single classed thieves that continue to advance as a thief throughout the entirety of the story. The reason people want her to be evil is because bg2 has no evil thieves at all.
Imoen - Good - Dual Classed from thief to mage. Her thief skills will never progress beyond 7th level without outside modification. Whether Imoen had a kit or not is irrelevant. She is not "pure" because she is dual classed.
Yoshimo - Neutral - Single Classed thief with a kit. He'd be fine to fill the niche if his participation in the story wasn't cut short mid bg2 making him completely unavailable for the second half of the game and the entirety of ToB. His having a kit is again irrelevant. He is considered "pure" for purposes of this discussion no matter anyone's personal opinion of what "pure" means.
Jan - Neutral - Multi-Classed thief. He advances in two classes making his thief advancement slower than a single class. Obviously no kit. He is not "pure" not because of the presence or lack thereof of a kit but because he is multi-classed.
Nalia - Good - Dual Classed from theif to make. Her thief skills will never progress beyond 4th level without outside modification. Whether Nalia had a kit or not is irrelevant. She is not "pure" because she is dual classed.
A kit is a non-factor when it comes to a character being "pure" for purposes of the discussion at hand. In this case "pure" refers to single classed vs being multi classed or dual classed. BG2 has NO SINGLE CLASS THIEF AT ALL as an option to take through to the end of the series that continues to advance in the thief class, unless it is the protagonist or a pregenerated character. Jan is the ONLY npc with the thief class in BG2 that continues to advance as a thief through the entirety of the series and he does so at half speed. I trust I've explained things well enough to make my point.
A bit off topicish here, but speaking of Jan, even though he's only half a thief, he's still darn good thief throughout SoA and ToB. I think it's the combination of his starting equipment, his illusion spells, and the fact that thieves require less exp points to level up compare to other classes.
A bit off topicish here, but speaking of Jan, even though he's only half a thief, he's still darn good thief throughout SoA and ToB. I think it's the combination of his starting equipment, his illusion spells, and the fact that thieves require less exp points to level up compare to other classes.
Oh I have nothing against Jan personally. He functions well enough as a thief for any party. I think the desire amongst many players though is to have the freedom of a single classed character to advance quickly (unlike jan) and the potential to be dualed, if desired, at specific points chosen by the player and not set in stone when you get the character like Imoen and Nalia.
Earlier in the topic I guessed that if our new thief has a kit it would likely be swashbuckler if only for the fact that a single classed swashbuckler taken deep into ToB without ever dual classing would scale well thanks to the bonuses of the kit. But it's just as likely to have no kit or even a new kit made specifically for bg2.
"Pure class" or "vanilla class" = single-class Thief with no kit
"Thief" = single class, kit or no kit
This is not correct.
The reason people use the term "pure" class has NOTHING to do with whether or not a character has a kit but because specifically BG2 has NO single classed thieves that continue to advance as a thief throughout the entirety of the story. The reason people want her to be evil is because bg2 has no evil thieves at all.
[...]
A kit is a non-factor when it comes to a character being "pure" for purposes of the discussion at hand. In this case "pure" refers to single classed vs being multi classed or dual classed. BG2 has NO SINGLE CLASS THIEF AT ALL as an option to take through to the end of the series that continues to advance in the thief class, unless it is the protagonist or a pregenerated character. Jan is the ONLY npc with the thief class in BG2 that continues to advance as a thief through the entirety of the series and he does so at half speed. I trust I've explained things well enough to make my point.
I see your point. Definitions are either more or less useful and not absolutes, so I see little reason to argue over them.
Believe me, I'm quite aware of the lack of a joinable, single classed thief in BG2 that's not from a mod. I'm thrilled that the developers have created an evil female thief to join the PC's party--so thrilled that I don't care all that much what her kit or race is. I'm just happy I can have someone other than Yoshimo, Jan, Nalia, or Imoen and that she'll match the (im)moral alignment of the rest of my party.
@kamuizin@Mortianna By pure Thief I mean non-dual and non-multi. My last post was facetious, pretending to be far too serious about how I feel Yoshimo doesn't count in these sorts of discussions for...more or less obvious reasons.
First rule of BG2 Thieves. We do not talk about Yoshimo. Second rule of BG2 Thieves. We do not talk about Yoshimo.
If you want a Paladin, you have Keldorn. If you want a bard, you have Haer'Dalis. If you want a Ranger, you have Minsc. These are not "vanilla" examples of their respective classes, but they can fulfill those functions in a party. In some cases, they're better than the pure option - Keldorn's dispelling ability is particularly needed when you face high-level mages.
I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand: There are no Evil thieves. There are no Evil characters with thieving skills. There are no compatible alternatives besides Yoshimo, who can't stay on past a certain point in the game.
News flash! Yoshimo is true neutral! Jan Jansen is chaotic neutral! By pnp tradition, cn is considered more evil friendly... In some old editions you couldn't play cn in core rules. It was a villainous alignment. So yeah, jan is silly, but he's a step further from keldorn than yoshimo.
Edit: don't be mislead though, I agree an evil thief is lacking from bg2.
@Quartz@CoM_Solaufein Pfft. You guys are crazy. Korgan is badass. Violent, pragmatic, a bit insane, but mercenary to the core and thus easily controlled. He's the ideal henchman!
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If you want a Paladin, you have Keldorn. If you want a bard, you have Haer'Dalis. If you want a Ranger, you have Minsc. These are not "vanilla" examples of their respective classes, but they can fulfill those functions in a party. In some cases, they're better than the pure option - Keldorn's dispelling ability is particularly needed when you face high-level mages.
I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand: There are no Evil thieves. There are no Evil characters with thieving skills. There are no compatible alternatives besides Yoshimo, who can't stay on past a certain point in the game.
Yoshimo? Like I said, there is no pure class Thief. *intense, haunted stare*
"Pure class" or "vanilla class" = single-class Thief with no kit
"Thief" = single class, kit or no kit
The reason people use the term "pure" class has NOTHING to do with whether or not a character has a kit but because specifically BG2 has NO single classed thieves that continue to advance as a thief throughout the entirety of the story. The reason people want her to be evil is because bg2 has no evil thieves at all.
Imoen - Good - Dual Classed from thief to mage. Her thief skills will never progress beyond 7th level without outside modification. Whether Imoen had a kit or not is irrelevant. She is not "pure" because she is dual classed.
Yoshimo - Neutral - Single Classed thief with a kit. He'd be fine to fill the niche if his participation in the story wasn't cut short mid bg2 making him completely unavailable for the second half of the game and the entirety of ToB. His having a kit is again irrelevant. He is considered "pure" for purposes of this discussion no matter anyone's personal opinion of what "pure" means.
Jan - Neutral - Multi-Classed thief. He advances in two classes making his thief advancement slower than a single class. Obviously no kit. He is not "pure" not because of the presence or lack thereof of a kit but because he is multi-classed.
Nalia - Good - Dual Classed from theif to make. Her thief skills will never progress beyond 4th level without outside modification. Whether Nalia had a kit or not is irrelevant. She is not "pure" because she is dual classed.
A kit is a non-factor when it comes to a character being "pure" for purposes of the discussion at hand. In this case "pure" refers to single classed vs being multi classed or dual classed. BG2 has NO SINGLE CLASS THIEF AT ALL as an option to take through to the end of the series that continues to advance in the thief class, unless it is the protagonist or a pregenerated character. Jan is the ONLY npc with the thief class in BG2 that continues to advance as a thief through the entirety of the series and he does so at half speed. I trust I've explained things well enough to make my point.
Earlier in the topic I guessed that if our new thief has a kit it would likely be swashbuckler if only for the fact that a single classed swashbuckler taken deep into ToB without ever dual classing would scale well thanks to the bonuses of the kit. But it's just as likely to have no kit or even a new kit made specifically for bg2.
An multi fighter/thief is a vanilla class, while an assassin is a pure class.
This is how i see however.
Believe me, I'm quite aware of the lack of a joinable, single classed thief in BG2 that's not from a mod. I'm thrilled that the developers have created an evil female thief to join the PC's party--so thrilled that I don't care all that much what her kit or race is. I'm just happy I can have someone other than Yoshimo, Jan, Nalia, or Imoen and that she'll match the (im)moral alignment of the rest of my party.
By pure Thief I mean non-dual and non-multi.
My last post was facetious, pretending to be far too serious about how I feel Yoshimo doesn't count in these sorts of discussions for...more or less obvious reasons.
First rule of BG2 Thieves. We do not talk about Yoshimo.
Second rule of BG2 Thieves. We do not talk about Yoshimo.
Edit: don't be mislead though, I agree an evil thief is lacking from bg2.
Evil half-elf assassin sounds good.
(No typo. I think Kagain is awesome but Korgan's blatant evilness is honestly insulting to the players' intelligence.)
(no idea how well it would work)
http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/yeslick
Pfft. You guys are crazy. Korgan is badass. Violent, pragmatic, a bit insane, but mercenary to the core and thus easily controlled. He's the ideal henchman!
Bring on the female dwarf Shadowdancer!
Duergar would be cool, too.