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Just beat Baldur's Gate: EE... I'd give it a 7/10. Here are my issues

jdinatalejdinatale Member Posts: 5
in Archive (General Discussion)
It was a good game, but definitely a little overrated. It would probably not make it into my top 10 RPG's of all time list. It did so many things right and was great in most regards, but it had some issues:

-The non-plot maps were repetitive. They were all the same basic square with similar enemies with not much interesting going on. Occasionally, they had a small cave to go in, but that's about it.

-The plot had serious pacing issues. 45 hours into the game (beat the game in 56 hours), I knew only a paragraph's worth of actual plot about a not so intriguing iron shortage, and I still did not know who the main antagonist was. I think I found out the antagonist's name at 45 hours. The plot really only picked up in the last 5 hours or so

-The plot did not exactly break any new ground in the fantasy genre (compared to say Torment). It was fairly well done, but nothing I'll be thinking about for years to come.

-The only thing that moved slower than the plot were the characters. There was not a run command, making haste a necessary spell to have on at all times.

-Some wonky pathfinding

-Some wonky controls. Nearly everytime I tried to tell a character to cast a spell on another character, he would walk or attack instead.

-Some dungeons had extremely narrow hallways, meaning your characters got blocked by each other and could not attack the enemies. These were also a pain to navagate because you had to click precisely inside the hallway boundaries to move.

-Only the new characters like Dorn and Neer had plots that carried them throughout the game and actually chimed in once in a while. The other NPC had basic introductory plots/motivations, but then they shut up for the rest of the game and were pretty much interchangeable.

-The music was standard fantasy fare and not very memorable, comapred to some other CRPG's like Morrowind or Icewind Dale (both by Jeremy Soule, but he's not the only good CRPG composer)
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Comments

  • jdinatalejdinatale Member Posts: 5
    Oh, and I forgot. Gold became useless in the last half of the game. I wish there would have been cool things to save up for.
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2013
    I understand all your points, however the game did come out in 1998...

    With that said, I guess 1998 was an amazing year for gaming as well;Zelda 64,Half Life,Metal Gear solid, Xenogears,Resident Evil 2, Fallout 2, Parasite eve etc.

    Anyway, my biggest complains was as you said, narrow hallways in dungeons and the story was "meh" it was allright.

    Luckily, Baldur's Gate 2, which came out in 2000, is in my opinion one of the best games ever made with a fantastic story.

    And yes, your review is valid because; if someone is new to fantasy would anyone really recommend BGEE over Dragon Age (you can find both for the same price today) I wouldnt recommend even Baldur's Gate 2 over Dragon Age, however if you let Baldur's Gate 2 story get to you... you will lose sleep for weeks!

    ps! I still find Baldur's Gate 2 better then Dragon Age, but It takes a certain gamer to be able to see past the graphic and non-friendly gameplay.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited July 2013
    It's a well known fact that original bg1 npcs are a bit lackluster in terms of interjections and characterisation. Bg2 improves this a lot, so that each bg2 npc becomes memorable, almost alive. Bg1npc mod attempts this for bg1 too, and is very succesfull and fun. Sadly, it is not converted to bg:ee, but might be available soon.

    I agree about bg1's story can be all over the place sometimes, but it is part of its charm for some people. In bg2 story is better structured but you don't get that many opportunities to wander the wilderness, and the feeling of discovery and wonder is lost. No time 'To stop and smell the roses'. Bg2 has a pseudo urgency, like when you run to a place to do a quest and when you are there you are given three or more new quests at the same time. Etc.

    Sure, Bg2 is a better game in some respects, but bg1 also has a special place for its open-world environment, and especially for its rather challenging and downright cruel difficulty in some parts if you don't know what you are doing. It releases you, as a player, to a big and wild world full of dangers, treasures, and wonders. It gives some pointers to you (like when Gorion says:'listen carefully: if I die, go to friendly arm inn!'j but you are free to go most anywhere you wish, and no bg1 run has to be the exact same as before. Compared to bg2, bg1 has more of a 'freedom' 'A new world opens before you after your traumatic experience' 'Travel and discover!' feeling.
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2013
    The problem with the whole "freedom" is that you can die very fast in Baldur's Gate (...especially at low levels), and you better stick to the road/story unless you know what you're doing. Hardly welcoming for newcomers.
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    The narrow hallways are why I avoid some areas altogether.
    lunar said:



    Sure, Bg2 is a better game in some respects, but bg1 also has a special place for its open-world environment, and especially for its rather challenging and downright cruel difficulty in some parts if you don't know what you are doing. It releases you, as a player, to a big and wild world full of dangers, treasures, and wonders. It gives some pointers to you (like when Gorion says:'listen carefully: if I die, go to friendly arm inn!'j but you are free to go most anywhere you wish, and no bg1 run has to be the exact same as before. Compared to bg2, bg1 has more of a 'freedom' 'A new world opens before you after your traumatic experience' 'Travel and discover!' feeling.

    One of the things I enjoy about BG is how dangerous everything is at level one. It's the opposite of many RPGs and video games in general, where you have to have down syndrome to die at the beginning of the game. There's a certain thrill in the fact that an ogre can chunk you in one hit. Of course, that thrill is gone after a couple levels, which is a good thing. This is an RPG, not Contra, after all.

    That said, I always thought that the "freedom" aspect of BG was overrated. The wonder of exploring wears off once you know that most of the areas are pointless, each map looking largely identical to the other and thinly populated with the same boring monsters. There are some interesting maps and encounters of course--the basilisk area, the lighthouse section with the sirines and flesh golems, the werewolf island, and I always find the xvart village amusing. But for every interesting area, there seems to be two that are utterly pointless. These days, I just use clairvoyance on every map so I can quickly get around and just do the parts that I like. Then again, one can argue that that is part of the "freedom" of BG.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    jdinatale said:

    It was a good game, but definitely a little overrated. It would probably not make it into my top 10 RPG's of all time list. It did so many things right and was great in most regards, but it had some issues:

    -The non-plot maps were repetitive. They were all the same basic square with similar enemies with not much interesting going on. Occasionally, they had a small cave to go in, but that's about it.

    -The plot had serious pacing issues. 45 hours into the game (beat the game in 56 hours), I knew only a paragraph's worth of actual plot about a not so intriguing iron shortage, and I still did not know who the main antagonist was. I think I found out the antagonist's name at 45 hours. The plot really only picked up in the last 5 hours or so

    -The plot did not exactly break any new ground in the fantasy genre (compared to say Torment). It was fairly well done, but nothing I'll be thinking about for years to come.

    -The only thing that moved slower than the plot were the characters. There was not a run command, making haste a necessary spell to have on at all times.

    -Some wonky pathfinding

    -Some wonky controls. Nearly everytime I tried to tell a character to cast a spell on another character, he would walk or attack instead.

    -Some dungeons had extremely narrow hallways, meaning your characters got blocked by each other and could not attack the enemies. These were also a pain to navagate because you had to click precisely inside the hallway boundaries to move.

    -Only the new characters like Dorn and Neer had plots that carried them throughout the game and actually chimed in once in a while. The other NPC had basic introductory plots/motivations, but then they shut up for the rest of the game and were pretty much interchangeable.

    -The music was standard fantasy fare and not very memorable, comapred to some other CRPG's like Morrowind or Icewind Dale (both by Jeremy Soule, but he's not the only good CRPG composer)


    so what are these top10 rpg's that are so much better than BG?
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    What you say is truthful, albeit I would add that some of these irritating issues actually are responsible for the BG's longevity. It is the challenge those issues produce that many are attracted to.
    Personally, I see vanilla BG1 as superior to BG:EE. The characters are even slower, the difficulty is equal to that of a game of master chess and there is that ancient feel to the game, akin to the feel of absolute classics such as Dungeon Master. Playing BG1, I feel as if I were excavating heritage of a civilization long gone. And, in fact, this is pretty much the case.
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2013
    I can name more then 10 rpg's better then BG:

    Final Fantasy 6
    Final Fantasy 7
    Final Fantasy 8
    Final Fantasy 9
    Final Fantasy tactics
    Persona 3
    Persona 4
    Kotor
    Jade Empire
    Mass effect
    Dragon Age
    Dragon Quest 5
    Dragon Quest 8
    Dragon Quest 9
    Fallout 3
    Skyrim
    Baldur's Gate 2
    Parasite Eve
    Xenogears
    Diablo 2
    Chrono Trigger
    Chrono Cross
    Pokemon
    Shining Force
    Tales of Symphonia
    Tales of Vesperia
    Breath of Fire III
    Fire Emblem
    Shining Force II
    Bioshock infinite is a hybrid... fps/rpg, but I still consider it a rpg.

    I can name 50 more games.

    I still liked Baldur's Gate 1 and I still think Baldur's Gate 2 is one of the best games EVER MADE - easily top 5 in my private list.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    edited July 2013
    from what i gathered games like bioshock and mass effect are not rpg
    diablo is h'n's
    probably even more are there

    tell me more about your top50 favorite non rpg games

    everyone that i asked a question dragon age vs baldur's gate
    said baldur's gate so you are probably a little different in taste for an rpg games

    oh i see bg1 and bg2 are separate so this might be the case but considering BGT and other things i think of it as a whole
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2013
    for me RPG is a very broad term.

    some people for ex says that every rpg need a class system like older final fantasy, or turn based, that it can never be an action game etc.
    I dissagree.
    Mass Effect is very much a RPG with shooting element within.
    Diablo2 for me is more then just a mindless hacknslash, it has a decent story and great rpg progression in terms of leveling, getting gear, and exploring a big open-world.

    I mean, if you play BG1 and skip the story/dialoge and play it in co-op, you dont get more "rpg" then, eh , lets say co-op in Diablo.
  • Troodon80Troodon80 Member, Developer Posts: 4,110
    raxtoren said:

    Final Fantasy 6
    Final Fantasy 7
    Final Fantasy 8
    Final Fantasy 9
    Final Fantasy tactics
    Persona 3
    Persona 4
    Kotor
    Jade Empire
    Mass effect
    Dragon Age
    Dragon Quest 5
    Dragon Quest 8
    Dragon Quest 9
    Fallout 3
    Skyrim
    Baldur's Gate 2
    Parasite Eve
    Xenogears
    Diablo 2
    Chrono Trigger
    Chrono Cross
    Pokemon
    Shining Force
    Tales of Symphonia
    Tales of Vesperia
    Breath of Fire III
    Fire Emblem
    Shining Force II
    Bioshock infinite is a hybrid... fps/rpg, but I still consider it a rpg.

    The Legend of Zelda series isn't on that list, yet Pokémon is. Shame on you.

    I'm joking. About the shame part, at least.
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2013
    im no homo!

    zelda is a game for girls and japanese men.
  • jdinatalejdinatale Member Posts: 5
    zur312 said:

    jdinatale said:

    It was a good game, but definitely a little overrated. It would probably not make it into my top 10 RPG's of all time list. It did so many things right and was great in most regards, but it had some issues:

    -The non-plot maps were repetitive. They were all the same basic square with similar enemies with not much interesting going on. Occasionally, they had a small cave to go in, but that's about it.

    -The plot had serious pacing issues. 45 hours into the game (beat the game in 56 hours), I knew only a paragraph's worth of actual plot about a not so intriguing iron shortage, and I still did not know who the main antagonist was. I think I found out the antagonist's name at 45 hours. The plot really only picked up in the last 5 hours or so

    -The plot did not exactly break any new ground in the fantasy genre (compared to say Torment). It was fairly well done, but nothing I'll be thinking about for years to come.

    -The only thing that moved slower than the plot were the characters. There was not a run command, making haste a necessary spell to have on at all times.

    -Some wonky pathfinding

    -Some wonky controls. Nearly everytime I tried to tell a character to cast a spell on another character, he would walk or attack instead.

    -Some dungeons had extremely narrow hallways, meaning your characters got blocked by each other and could not attack the enemies. These were also a pain to navagate because you had to click precisely inside the hallway boundaries to move.

    -Only the new characters like Dorn and Neer had plots that carried them throughout the game and actually chimed in once in a while. The other NPC had basic introductory plots/motivations, but then they shut up for the rest of the game and were pretty much interchangeable.

    -The music was standard fantasy fare and not very memorable, comapred to some other CRPG's like Morrowind or Icewind Dale (both by Jeremy Soule, but he's not the only good CRPG composer)


    so what are these top10 rpg's that are so much better than BG?
    I can very easily name 10 RPG's better than Baldur's Gate, even more if you so desire

    1 - Planescape: Torment
    2 - Deus Ex
    3 - System Shock 2
    4 - Fallout
    5 - Fallout 2
    6 - Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines
    7 - Fallout: New Vegas
    8 - The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
    9 - NWW 2 - Mask of the Betrayer
    10 - Wizardry 8
  • BanexBanex Member Posts: 127
    edited July 2013
    Let's not forget BG1 is two days older than Christ and not exactly the eye candy of today's genre.Gameplay wise it can still hold it's own though and at the end of the day,it's gameplay that matters.I still prefer BG2 over BG 1 myself.Everyone to their own though whatever your poison may be.
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2013
    I hope people realize that, well guys like me arnt BG-bashers. I wouldnt have bought the game nor hang in the forum if that was the case. It's just that I bought BGEE because I loved BG2 and wanna support developers who will make an enhanced edition for BG2 and hopefully other people will find out what a gem that game was. Also, maybe get into fantasy and pick up Dragon Age and upcoming Dragon Age 3 (...Dragon Age 2 doesnt exist, lets all remember that)

    Anyway, so I was new to Baldur's Gate 1 and after I played it I realize that it was a great rpg in 1998 probably.
    However by today standards it lack many things... but still enough for me to give it 80/100.

  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2013
    Final Fantasy, especially the older ones, such as; Final Fantasy 5,6,9 are very true to the fantasy genre.

    You have classes/Jobs, like for ex certain characters are knights,thiefs,bards,mages,summoners etc and it has castle's and medieval settings. And yes, FF6 is very open, I mean the latter part even let you decied on who you will bring to the last boss or not - what I mean is, you have to collect your party members that has scattered around the world.
    It wasnt as streamlined as some think, nor was Final Fantasy 12 which brought back that. I mean, in Final Fantasy 12 you can choose whatever a character should be and explore a huuuuge world.

    In fact Sakaguchi, creator of Final Fantasy, said that he used to play games like Dragon Quest,Ultima and Wizardry before he created Final Fantasy- and you can tell.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited July 2013
    Final Fantasy 5-6-9 all had a very linear story and the character you played (6,9) was set in stone and you couldn't change anything with them.

    Final Fantasy 6 : You had to follow a line made out infront of you for a very long time. First you get to Figaro castle and after that you only got one way to go for a very long time. Final Fantasy 9 lets you explore a tiny little bit at the start but nothing near that of Baldur's gate. In Final Fantasy games it's first when you get hold of a ship or plane that you can explore the whole world and that is over half way into every single game.

    And in Baldur's gate you can create your own character with his own personality, these are already made in Final Fantasy and nothing you do will change the way they are in the game. They will always end up being the person the creator of the game intended them to be.

    There isn't a single Final Fantasy game after the 5th that let you have a choice. Everything is already planned ahead of you and the game will be the same game every single playthrough except few changes like Materia, Spells, Items and which party members you pick.

    The NPC's aren't that much different but the protoganist of BG and Final Fantasy couldn't be more different.
    Post edited by SionIV on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2013
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited July 2013
    Just want to point out that all those japanese RPGS have one thing in common, you can't play evil. There are a few ones that were catered to you only playing evil, but you'll never have the choice.
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    Btw, I bought BG2 on GOG and found this in the manual:

    Baldur’s Gate was the first role-playing game that BioWare had ever developed, and frankly we learned a lot in the process. We have
    applied those lessons assiduously in developing the game that is now in your hands - Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn. Throughout
    the development of Baldur’s Gate II our focus has been on ensuring that Baldur’s Gate II is significantly better than Baldur’s Gate in
    every way possible, and to make it appeal not only to fans of the original game but also to make it accessible to new fans who never
    played the original game. I am even more proud of what the Baldur’s Gate II team has accomplished this time around. We felt we owed
    it to you - our fans - to make BGII not only a good game, but a significant improvement on the original game. We improved the story in Baldur’s Gate II to make it much more immersive; characters interact with their worlds and other
    characters to make the role-playing aspects very compelling, and very satisfying.
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    edited July 2013
    well you can't really play "evil" in baldur's gate either you can kill everyone but this is not "evil" this is SPARTAAAAAAaa or some other crazy thinggg

    never played fallout 1/2 are there "true evil" options?

    i heard Arcanum + Torment are the true "evil" rpg if you would like to play that way
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited July 2013
    I would say that Fallout is the game where it's the most satisfying to play evil, Torment and Arcanum share a second place.

    And you still have the choice to do evil /stupid things in BG2, that choice is not there in JRPG.
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    I also realize that the art team was much better in BG2 over BG1.
    when you buy the GOG version you got art from BG1 and BG2.


    Look at this crappy BG1 art:

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/Painting_04_zps5e940317.jpg

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/Painting_05_zps2c796c67.jpg

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/Painting_11_zpsfc5c8434.jpg

    Compared to BG2 beautiful art!!!!

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/BaldursGate2_12_1920x1080_zps3e71c4aa.jpg

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/BaldursGate2_11_1920x1080_zps423cc4d0.jpg

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/BaldursGate2_08_1920x1080_zps93f916f6.jpg
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    edited July 2013
    image
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    raxtoren said:

    I also realize that the art team was much better in BG2 over BG1.
    when you buy the GOG version you got art from BG1 and BG2.


    Look at this crappy BG1 art:

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/Painting_04_zps5e940317.jpg

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/Painting_05_zps2c796c67.jpg

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/Painting_11_zpsfc5c8434.jpg

    Compared to BG2 beautiful art!!!!

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/BaldursGate2_12_1920x1080_zps3e71c4aa.jpg

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/BaldursGate2_11_1920x1080_zps423cc4d0.jpg

    http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a317/QuezcatoL/BaldursGate2_08_1920x1080_zps93f916f6.jpg

    Look at this crappy Doom 1 Artwork compared to Doom 3!

    I hope you can see how silly this is.
  • raxtorenraxtoren Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2013
    GOG claimed it was BG1 art. don't blame me! I just bought the gog versions! I have the folders and everything.
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