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Advice for playing as a kensai?

I had seen people on here talking about how powerful a kensai is (or has the potential to be), so I thought about trying one on my next playthrough. However, the prospect of playing as a tank fighter who can't wear armor or use shields is strange to say the least.

I had originally intended to do my next playthrough as a dual-wielding fighter, but it would seem more prudent to use one weapon and put 2 points into single weapon style for the extra AC bonus.

Does anyone have any tidbits of wisdom to offer?
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Comments

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    use one weapon and put 2 points into single weapon style for the extra AC bonus.

    This is pretty much exactly what I do when I play a Kensai. If you grab the Ring of Protection just south of the Friendly Arm (and play as an elf because why wouldn't you), you can start off with a pretty decent AC and THAC0.

    When you get to BG2, that's a good time to start putting points into two-weapon style, and if you're following the "One sword to master" archetype, it makes for a pretty logical progression.

    I tend to favor the Long Sword because Varscona.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    Tidbit: Get a mage to cast spirit armor on you. It gives you the equivalent of full plate and +3 save vs spell for 2 hours. Until then the shield amulet will have to do.
  • ambrennanambrennan Member Posts: 173
    Start with ToB as you won't have to sit through low levels and can dualclass immediately.

    On a more serious note, kensais probably shouldn't be tanks (get another fighter to draw fire as much as possible). You might also want to look into ranged weapons (axes and daggers) and get any protective item you can get (shield amulet)
  • JLeeJLee Member Posts: 650
    Perhaps make the Kensai a 2nd row fighter specializing in 2H weapons with good reach like staves. Run Ajantis, Dorn, etc in the front and follow behind with the Kensai. That's what I did and he did very well.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    Dee said:

    I tend to favor the Long Sword because Varscona.

    @Dee Heh, if AC is your concern you should favor scimitar because Twinkle;)
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Shield amulet sold in Nashkel Carnival is affordable if you have a decent Cha and reputation, it sets your ac momentarily, handy in difficult fights and bandit ambushes, it also conveniently blocks magic missiles.

    Potions of defense and invulnerability are very powerful, you can loot some from Silke quest in Beregost.

    Jaheira can cast barkskin on you, the duration is rather short, though it can help in a pinch.

    Single weapon style can help with ac, but two handed weapon style is very viable, too.

    Actually, staff-saint is a nice build. Go quarterstaves++ two handed style ++ at lvl 1. Quarterstaves have middling damage, but the speed and reach are critical factors for a kensai. Also you can buy Aule's staff+3 in Ulgoth's beard. It is an already fast weapon, combined with two handed style's speed bonus, and kensai's innate speed bonuses, it is instant-hit. With reach superiority, a kensai can dance around a heavily armored foe, doing an instant-smack, and retreat before the enemy can get in melee-range, circle around a few seconds to avoid attacks, and smack again in the next round. Most heavy hitter enemies (Taugoz Khosan, etc) can't touch you. Plus, crushing damage is the best type of damage in the game, skeletons and jellies are weak to it, and many armors are strong against slashing and piercing. Ps:this may not work well on Big S in the end game, well, he has reach and speed too, and hits like a truck ^^
  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323
    I never understood the Kensai class. It's a glass cannon - a frontline glass cannon. Surely anyone can see this is a bad combination?

    Best advice about playing Kensai I can give is - play an Archer instead.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Kensais can be a lot of fun. They do require a different play style though. But it can be very fun and rewarding to get the more unusual kits and classes to work.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    I'll avoid to comment on the kensai use, weapons, race, stats because the power-gamer in me is screaming.
    By the way,

    However, the prospect of playing as a tank fighter who can't wear armor or use shields is strange to say the least.

    It's strange because Kensai is NOT a tank, especially at lower levels ;)


    PS.
    Tresset said:

    Tidbit: Get a mage to cast spirit armor on you. It gives you the equivalent of full plate and +3 save vs spell for 2 hours. Until then the shield amulet will have to do.

    It's not exactly the same, since the full plate also gives very cool AC modifiers (another -4 vs Slashing, -3 vs Piercing and Missile).
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Tresset said:

    Tidbit: Get a mage to cast spirit armor on you. It gives you the equivalent of full plate and +3 save vs spell for 2 hours. Until then the shield amulet will have to do.

    It's not exactly the same, since the full plate also gives very cool AC modifiers (another -4 vs Slashing, -3 vs Piercing and Missile).

    Kensais do get an innate bonus to AC as well, so with spirit armor on they are very close to a regular fighter with full plate on. With a girdle of piercing/slashing they are even better.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    lunar said:

    Kensais do get an innate bonus to AC as well, so with spirit armor on they are very close to a regular fighter with full plate on. With a girdle of piercing/slashing they are even better.

    Fighters can wear a helmet for 1more AC point (and critical hits protection), and it's not like they cannot wear belts too.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460

    lunar said:

    Kensais do get an innate bonus to AC as well, so with spirit armor on they are very close to a regular fighter with full plate on. With a girdle of piercing/slashing they are even better.

    Fighters can wear a helmet for 1more AC point (and critical hits protection), and it's not like they cannot wear belts too.
    True enough. So a fighter will have a few points of better AC, and the kensai will have a few points of better to hit and damage bonuses and can do maximum damage for a limited time. Can be considered balanced, though this is only for high lvls where kensai has access to spirit armour spell from an ally and has developed substantial kensai levels to gain hit/dmg bonuses. At low levels of 1-2 a plate mail wearing fighter is noticeably more durable.

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Kensais can be tricky in BG1, because they require a lot of micro management for not a whole lot of upside. Most of their benefits scale with levels, and will consequently be a bit weak early on.

    One thing to keep in mind is that although they are fighters, Kensais should be treated as pure damage dealers (in BG1) with no tanking component. They can survive a few attacks, but they are not meant to take sustained hits. Move around a lot, potentially with a long-reach weapon (staff is a good choice), as has been suggested above.

    This all changes in BG2, though, most notably because you can dual into a mage once your fighter bonuses taper off (lvl9/13). This eliminates all your disadvantages, and turns you into an un-killable damage monster. Some of that can be emulated earlier with mages/druids in the party casting buffs on you, but it's nothing close to the amount of protection you get when you dual.

    Still, despite the notorious power of Kensais in BG2, you won't see much wow from them in BG1. They are a viable class to be sure and can definitely be used effectively, but they will be nowhere near as devastating as ranged damage dealers.
  • MajocaMajoca Member Posts: 263
    @blackchimes

    I think your 'glass canon' analogy is unfair when addressing the Kensai class, The whole point in the class is to do massive amounts of damage quickly, the damage he can achieve is incredible however that comes with it's weaknesses.

    Though an Archer I agree with you is a good class but the short burst's of two weapons hitting at max damage or even a two handed weapon consistently hitting max damage is a game changer, the class is built not to solo but to be a wing man of a tank.

    Throw a Mage companion or even the dual class possibility to be a mage into the equation and it will add a different dimension to the class, as you can see your starting to develop a strong party which works well together all you need is a cleric and a thief and your pretty good to go through the whole game.

    If I was to refer to your glass canon I would say that the glass canon is as light as a feather an can be moved around quickly and it's fire rate is like a semi-automatic rifle and constantly hits your targets in the head. Okay it can break very quickly but if used with care you can kill some of the most difficult opponents pretty quickly.

    Rant over.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    edited August 2013

    The key to playing a kensai is to always talk to yourself in a bad Japanese accent while you do it.

    Umu, roleplaying someone along the Sword Coast who speaks a thick Kansai accent and eats kraken takoyaki all the time could proof to be quite entertaining indeed. Especially when using boke/tsukkomi on either Xzar or Minsk.
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861

    The key to playing a kensai is to always talk to yourself in a bad Japanese accent while you do it.

    Umu, roleplaying someone along the Sword Coast who speaks a thick Kansai accent and eats kraken takoyaki all the time could proof to be quite entertaining indeed. Especially when using boke/tsukkomi on either Xzar or Minsk.
    I had to Google boke/tsukkomi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzai but now I have I like the idea. I think Xan might be another good candidate.

  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    i played a half-orc kensai wielding 2handed swords and she did epic damage even by lvl 3. the combination of extra damage, use of DuHM special ability and kai meant she got up to 28 damage per hit (for 3apr with haste), not to be sniffed at

    i wouldn't worry too much about AC, your kensai should never be in a situation where he's being hit hard. use the shield amulet and rings/cloaks of protection. dwarves and half-orcs are good for their extra con health (which really rockets with the tome of con and DuHM), half-orcs also get the 19 strength damage/thac0 bonuses which are considerable.

    have your kensai engage the archers and mobs, enemies that shouldn't take much to kill, because kensais will cut through them like butter. then when fighting bosses, have them skirt around the edges attacking from the sides while the enemy is hitting your tank
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    edited August 2013
    "Advice for playing as a kensai?"

    dual to mage



    but seriously all those armor spells from mages
    barskin
    protection from evil
    rings
    different belts
    clerics other buffs
    you are not going to die easily

    for bg1 i would not recommend kensai because berserker or barbarian are far superior
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    The best advice on this thread and others is the shield amulet and the spirit armor spell. It isn't the same as a fighter in terms of AC but as long as you keep the shield amulet active (and that isn't that hard since you can recharge it by selling it to a merchant and buying it back) then you should be a solid fighter. The Kensai class is not an advantage really in BG1 but will be by BG2. If you want to power game BG1, then a Kensai is not the class of choice but the idea that they are a glass cannon is not really true if you put in a modest amount of time managing them.

    I had no difficulty with a halfling kensai through BG and BG2, for example.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    edited August 2013
    xyz
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    DJKajuru said:

    Dude, I've never seen so many different suggestions for Kensai... so here's mine!
    Change his appearance to that of male monk via shadowkeeper - he'll look more stylish!

    Monk avatars do not support two handed weapon animations so if you use one they will look wonky. Like, performing a high kick while swinging a staff with his teeth. I don't know if they support proper two weapon fighting animations as well.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    lunar said:

    Monk avatars do not support two handed weapon animations so if you use one they will look wonky. Like, performing a high kick while swinging a staff with his teeth. I don't know if they support proper two weapon fighting animations as well.

    Dual wielding works fine. As for two-handed weaps, yes, it's kinda awkward xD
  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323
    Actually I just realized something - you can make a Half-Orc Kensai and beeline it for the CON manual. That will put you at 20 CON and it won't matter much if you're getting hit or not.
    lunar said:

    Monk avatars do not support two handed weapon animations so if you use one they will look wonky. Like, performing a high kick while swinging a staff with his teeth.

    Sounds pretty martial arts master to me!
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    edited August 2013
    lunar said:

    DJKajuru said:

    Dude, I've never seen so many different suggestions for Kensai... so here's mine!
    Change his appearance to that of male monk via shadowkeeper - he'll look more stylish!

    Monk avatars do not support two handed weapon animations so if you use one they will look wonky. Like, performing a high kick while swinging a staff with his teeth. I don't know if they support proper two weapon fighting animations as well.
    Shame on two handed weapons! I'd still have him use two weapons , since their thac0 gets so high.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    Make sure to give your Kensai potions of speed, and haste them vs strong enemies (so they can zip in and strike and leave before the enemy can respond). And once you get access to Boots of speed, the Kensai getting them is a no brainer. Closing the distance faster vs ranged enemies, or staying out of melee range vs strong melee is pretty what their entire combat style is based around. Avoidance is INFINITELY better then armor class.

    Though I'd trade GM (that they shouldn't have anyway) for the barb's speed bonus, everything else being the same in a heart-beat. As a skirmish fighter they'd really benefit from a speed bonus, even if it cost them a little of their damage progression.
  • ogrebogreb Member Posts: 98
    In BG I found the Kensai too squishy and micro intensive until late game.
    BG 2 is a different story. ( Kensai / mages are awesome ) Even a straight Kensai is the bomb.
    You have to sacrifice build for survival in BG. That's no fun.
    A Kensai ( IMM) should be a dual wielding tornado of death. No 2 handed weapons allowed. ( Maybe staff or spear in a clinch...but no 2H swords or Halbreds )
    Start saving for all those potions and clearing out spell slots...for one guy ? I'll pass.
    In BG 2 I would pick Kensai in a heartbeat though.
  • AHFAHF Member Posts: 1,376
    ogreb said:

    In BG I found the Kensai too squishy and micro intensive until late game.
    BG 2 is a different story. ( Kensai / mages are awesome ) Even a straight Kensai is the bomb.
    You have to sacrifice build for survival in BG. That's no fun.
    A Kensai ( IMM) should be a dual wielding tornado of death. No 2 handed weapons allowed. ( Maybe staff or spear in a clinch...but no 2H swords or Halbreds )
    Start saving for all those potions and clearing out spell slots...for one guy ? I'll pass.
    In BG 2 I would pick Kensai in a heartbeat though.

    Just giving the shield amulet to that one guy is enough to make him a viable fighter. Defense potions are nice but only should be considered for the hardest fights. In my Kensai run, I finished with a million unused potions (like always).
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    I usually have Jaheira cast barkskin on my Kensai for the hardest fights since my mages aren't high enough lvl to cast Spirit Armor yet. Its enough to drop his AC into the negatives. And he holds onto the three belts so I can wear the one vs. whichever kind of damage my enemy uses.
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