Wait, I think I have a solution that would solve this little argument we're having Coutelier. I say Aerie is whining because she is, and you say she's not whining because she's justified. This really makes no sense because if a dog were whining because it had a broken leg, totally reasonable time for it to whine, we'd still call it whining, only justified whining. I mean, that's the sound a dog makes, it whines, only in this case its justified. You seem to somehow take offense to the idea of using the word "whine" or "whining" when Aerie is involved so I propose we create a new word, one that means "justified whining." That way, everyone will be happy. We'll be able to say what Aerie is doing but without trampling on the feels of people who take offense to the word whining.
So, from now on how about we call "justified whining" "glarmphing?"
As in: "My dog has got the runs again and wont stop glarmphing." Or: "Aerie is constantly glarmphing about her wings."
It can be used for other variations of the word too:
"Aerie is such a glarmpher." "Hey friendo, I don't want to hear you glarmph."
Well, my first inclination was "neither" since both are not the best adventuring companions both from their meh stats and the emotional drain they bring to party, but if I HAD to pick someone it would be quayle. At least he can have brief moments of candidness.
Despite many people hating her, I find her sweet, innocent and golden hearted attitude precious. I think any person who had to deal with a big trauma IRL can find bits and parts of his/her struggle in her romance and characterisation. Everyone seems to think she whines a lot, but when something terrible happens, sometimes people DO need to speak to someone they care for, and feel to know they are cared and have strength to not only go on, but even become a better person despite of what has happened. It's the most humane reaction.
Agreed...but from my experiences its pretty much a one-way street in dealing with Aerie. After several hours of "tell me I'm pretty, tell me I'm great" it gets rather taxing on the nerves. I'm all for being nice, but terrible things happen to A LOT of the characters. Do you hear Minsc complain about Dynaheir for the entire game? Jaheira for losing Khalid? Keldorn? No, they all handle the emotional stress. You still and and morally should help them since its the right thing to do, but when the stakes are as large as they are in that game dealing with one person's trauma pales in comparison to having a group of people who can handle the stress of the day to day that goes on in that game.
As for the aforementioned Daenerys parallel, Dani builds her strength internally whereas Aerie is pretty much helpless until others intervene to push her into growing into a stronger person. Dani isn't pushed into growing - she's pushed around which causes her to grow. Its a very subtle but significant difference.
@Coutelier, regarding chimpanzees as analogues to halflings and gnomes.
Chimpanzees are considerably stronger than humans, as many humans have been surprised and horrified to find out when they get attacked by an enraged chimp. They can bench more weight than a human, they can break human bones with their bare hands, and they can knock a grown human off his or her feet effortlessly.
Physical strength is not determined by stature, size, or weight. It is determined by anatomical bone and muscle density as a ratio to total body mass, as well as leverage provided by relative length of limbs and size of joints in relation to the torso.
In real life, in human society, big people often get very surprised when they get their arses handed to them by much smaller people. A big person or creature spends a huge proportion of his/her/its physical strength merely standing up and moving around. There's a thing called "mechanics of scale".
There is actually no reason in nature or physics why a creature the size of, say, a dwarf, couldn't be much, much stronger than a creature the size of a human.
Huge mass can begin to provide advantages of its own in combat, but we're talking whales, hippos, rhinos, and elephants, not humans.
Huge mass can begin to provide advantages of its own in combat, but we're talking whales, hippos, rhinos, and elephants, not humans.
That's not entirely true. Someone much larger typically will have a longer reach, which is an incredible advantage in a fight. Also there is added momentum from a longer limb striking someone compared to a smaller one. Also striking down adds further force to a blow due to gravity and not having to work against it but with it. That's why raining an elbow straight downwards on a downed opponent is illegal in most MMA organizations but elbows are otherwise completely legal. Also there can be advantages from extreme size difference even between other humans. If a 350lb guy grabs a hold of and/or gets on top of a 125lb guy, both with the same level of training and knowledge in combat, the advantage clearly goes to the larger man and for no other reason than he is bigger. The smaller fighter now has to contend with the extra weight of his opponent being on top of him, which will tire him out quicker, and make some means of escaping the position (such as bridging, bucking or hip escaping) more difficult because there's the much added weight to contend with.
I fully agree that a weight or size advantage isn't going to make or break a fight everytime but it is typically an advantage.
Despite many people hating her, I find her sweet, innocent and golden hearted attitude precious. I think any person who had to deal with a big trauma IRL can find bits and parts of his/her struggle in her romance and characterisation. Everyone seems to think she whines a lot, but when something terrible happens, sometimes people DO need to speak to someone they care for, and feel to know they are cared and have strength to not only go on, but even become a better person despite of what has happened. It's the most humane reaction.
Agreed...but from my experiences its pretty much a one-way street in dealing with Aerie. After several hours of "tell me I'm pretty, tell me I'm great" it gets rather taxing on the nerves. I'm all for being nice, but terrible things happen to A LOT of the characters. Do you hear Minsc complain about Dynaheir for the entire game? Jaheira for losing Khalid? Keldorn? No, they all handle the emotional stress. You still and and morally should help them since its the right thing to do, but when the stakes are as large as they are in that game dealing with one person's trauma pales in comparison to having a group of people who can handle the stress of the day to day that goes on in that game.
Well, the romance is written as 'one-way street' as you say, same as the others. I think the writers assume you already know about your own character so don't need to tell your backstory. But you do see Aerie consoling other characters about their problems (Minsc for example does start crying about Dynaheir, and Aerie comforts him), and she never talks to any of them about her wings. If you don't romance her then she's very quiet about all these things, but will still grow internally; it just takes longer. She isn't pushed into leaving the circus behind; she does it because she wants to grow. The only reason she's stayed as long as she has is out of loyalty to Quayle.
*Inside the temple of Illmater* Mazzy: Ah, my spirit always flies so free in this place. Aerie: Really? Mazzy: It rides the skies with the solars, Aerie... One day, I shall be a paladin atop a white griffon, and you will be a valiant flying squire. Wouldn't that be wonderful? Aerie: I ... I don't have my wings anymore, Mazzy, and ... and I'm never going to get them back. They're gone. Mazzy: Dream a little, girl, especially here where the gods are listening. Faith is such a beautiful thing to hold on to, Aerie. Aerie: But it won't give me wings ... Mazzy: No, it probably won't ... But it gives you a chance to dream, at least, doesn't it!? Look, an imaginary griffon beats an old nag any day and ... a friend like you beats any halfwit squire who would stoop so low as to help a hlafling on her horse ... You see? Aerie: I - I see, Mazzy ... And - And, thank you. Mazzy: I thought you might ... Now come, we've got a world to face, don't we girl!?
What really killed Aerie for me though was this- *My lv. 15 party has just stocked up on invisibility and is currently sneaking past a dormant shadow dragon*
(Because I was going for romance at the time...) [CHARNAME - "You hair... it's really pretty"]
REALLY?! We're trying to keep quiet and sneak past a F-ing dragon and I need to comment on HAIR?! Granted, that could happen with any romance plot. Still, it was vexing. My main frustration though was that I had to constantly ask myself, what sort of neutral or good-aligned character would this child tag along with them "so they can grow" and what sort of evil-aligned character could stand her for more than 10 minutes? All of the other characters had some legitimate reason for being as powerful as they were except for Aerie. You simply won't become a powerful mage or cleric because you spent all your time in a circus. If she had been an illusionist or an invoker of renown I might have been able to buy into it, but in the story for all the PC knows initially she's just some circus performer. Overall Aerie just felt like she was completely out of place and didn't really feel like she had a backstory that could put her on a parallel course with CHARNAME, imo.
Quayle was much more straightforward. He was an arrogant ass, but at least the character was implemented in a way that he was consistent with the game and compatible with a wide range of characters.
It's Mazzy who initiates that. Jan talks to her about it as well. In both cases she says only a little. But when Aerie initiates a dialogue with an NPC, it's almost always her asking about them. The pretty hair thing she says to Jaheira; it has nothing to with romance. It's when they're not catfighting over you, Aerie tries to be friendly. There are a lots of amusing things that can happen with the random dialogues in the game.
Aerie's not so different from the children that fled Candlekeep not long before, except that for her it's a choice. She was never really a performer in the circus; once she was freed from her cage, she earnt her keep doing chores. She learnt her magic from Quayle, who was an adventurer who has some connection with the Sigil Troupe, so possibly has been to other planes at some point, and she herself is also very determined to get out into the world and make a difference, and claim a new identity for herself, since the old one got taken away. It all seems pretty straightforward to me.
She left my party halfway through the game WHINING EVEN MORE THAN EVER about how it's not working out and I tried to avoid her as much as possible conversation-wise. So she ran off... with my MAGICAL GEAR... AND SCROLL BOX.
Damnit, Aerie! This is why I don't like her because of this one time thing. I tried giving her another attempt but then Jaheria had a go at her every conversation piece which amused me.
She left my party halfway through the game WHINING EVEN MORE THAN EVER about how it's not working out and I tried to avoid her as much as possible conversation-wise. So she ran off... with my MAGICAL GEAR... AND SCROLL BOX.
Damnit, Aerie! This is why I don't like her because of this one time thing. I tried giving her another attempt but then Jaheria had a go at her every conversation piece which amused me.
You hit her in the first opportunity didn't you? Hah, you naughty guy ! the lost of the gear and scroll boxs, you can call it pointment of goods, you're indeed lucky that she didn't took your gear along!
And by metagamming, be prepared in ToB, cos Aerie got pregnant in this game in the romance, and then, boom!! alimony duty for you my friend! Consider yourself lucky if you can afford potions in ToB !
Putting aside arguments about meaning and context, since I really don't have time to explain every single subtlety and nuance in language, there's also the fact that Quayle sets out to be the best spell caster in the realms, and he never is. Whereas Aerie swears she will improve her skills above and beyond what Quayle was able to teach, and does achieve that; in fact she'll have probably already achieved it by the time she swears it. So one up to her.
Putting aside arguments about meaning and context, since I really don't have time to explain every single subtlety and nuance in language, there's also the fact that Quayle sets out to be the best spell caster in the realms, and he never is. Whereas Aerie swears she will improve her skills above and beyond what Quayle was able to teach, and does achieve that; in fact she'll have probably already achieved it by the time she swears it. So one up to her.
Putting aside arguments about meaning and context, since I really don't have time to explain every single subtlety and nuance in language, there's also the fact that Quayle sets out to be the best spell caster in the realms, and he never is. Whereas Aerie swears she will improve her skills above and beyond what Quayle was able to teach, and does achieve that; in fact she'll have probably already achieved it by the time she swears it. So one up to her.
Well, that's a lot of roleplay my friend, congratulations!
In any case, leading Aerie on and on seems a bit of a long winded and unnecessary way to go if all your character wants is to get laid. There seems to be no shortage of courtesans around and available for work.
In any case, leading Aerie on and on seems a bit of a long winded and unnecessary way to go if all your character wants is to get laid. There seems to be no shortage of courtesans around and available for work.
"The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it"
In any case, leading Aerie on and on seems a bit of a long winded and unnecessary way to go if all your character wants is to get laid. There seems to be no shortage of courtesans around and available for work.
"The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it"
Well, Aerie is pure whining, corrupt her for a non whining person and you get the praise of the entire community !
In any case, leading Aerie on and on seems a bit of a long winded and unnecessary way to go if all your character wants is to get laid. There seems to be no shortage of courtesans around and available for work.
"The more beautiful and pure a thing is, the more satisfying it is to corrupt it"
Well, Aerie is pure whining, corrupt her for a non whining person and you get the praise of the entire community !
She turns into a werewolf and is always scratching at the door to be let out... I assume that's what you mean, since it's the only way whining would really be applicable to her. But I don't remember that happening. Otherwise, you can just not talk to her, and she'll apologize and not bother you any more.
Comments
So, from now on how about we call "justified whining" "glarmphing?"
As in: "My dog has got the runs again and wont stop glarmphing."
Or: "Aerie is constantly glarmphing about her wings."
It can be used for other variations of the word too:
"Aerie is such a glarmpher."
"Hey friendo, I don't want to hear you glarmph."
I think that's a pretty reasonable compromise.
As for the aforementioned Daenerys parallel, Dani builds her strength internally whereas Aerie is pretty much helpless until others intervene to push her into growing into a stronger person. Dani isn't pushed into growing - she's pushed around which causes her to grow. Its a very subtle but significant difference.
Chimpanzees are considerably stronger than humans, as many humans have been surprised and horrified to find out when they get attacked by an enraged chimp. They can bench more weight than a human, they can break human bones with their bare hands, and they can knock a grown human off his or her feet effortlessly.
Physical strength is not determined by stature, size, or weight. It is determined by anatomical bone and muscle density as a ratio to total body mass, as well as leverage provided by relative length of limbs and size of joints in relation to the torso.
In real life, in human society, big people often get very surprised when they get their arses handed to them by much smaller people. A big person or creature spends a huge proportion of his/her/its physical strength merely standing up and moving around. There's a thing called "mechanics of scale".
There is actually no reason in nature or physics why a creature the size of, say, a dwarf, couldn't be much, much stronger than a creature the size of a human.
Huge mass can begin to provide advantages of its own in combat, but we're talking whales, hippos, rhinos, and elephants, not humans.
I fully agree that a weight or size advantage isn't going to make or break a fight everytime but it is typically an advantage.
Incidentally, I stopped arguing (on Aerie) not cos u convinced me of ur position, but u convinced me it would be futile to try.
*Inside the temple of Illmater*
Mazzy: Ah, my spirit always flies so free in this place.
Aerie: Really?
Mazzy: It rides the skies with the solars, Aerie... One day, I shall be a paladin atop a white griffon, and you will be a valiant flying squire. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
Aerie: I ... I don't have my wings anymore, Mazzy, and ... and I'm never going to get them back. They're gone.
Mazzy: Dream a little, girl, especially here where the gods are listening. Faith is such a beautiful thing to hold on to, Aerie.
Aerie: But it won't give me wings ...
Mazzy: No, it probably won't ... But it gives you a chance to dream, at least, doesn't it!? Look, an imaginary griffon beats an old nag any day and ... a friend like you beats any halfwit squire who would stoop so low as to help a hlafling on her horse ... You see?
Aerie: I - I see, Mazzy ... And - And, thank you.
Mazzy: I thought you might ... Now come, we've got a world to face, don't we girl!?
What really killed Aerie for me though was this-
*My lv. 15 party has just stocked up on invisibility and is currently sneaking past a dormant shadow dragon*
(Because I was going for romance at the time...)
[CHARNAME - "You hair... it's really pretty"]
REALLY?! We're trying to keep quiet and sneak past a F-ing dragon and I need to comment on HAIR?! Granted, that could happen with any romance plot. Still, it was vexing. My main frustration though was that I had to constantly ask myself, what sort of neutral or good-aligned character would this child tag along with them "so they can grow" and what sort of evil-aligned character could stand her for more than 10 minutes? All of the other characters had some legitimate reason for being as powerful as they were except for Aerie. You simply won't become a powerful mage or cleric because you spent all your time in a circus. If she had been an illusionist or an invoker of renown I might have been able to buy into it, but in the story for all the PC knows initially she's just some circus performer. Overall Aerie just felt like she was completely out of place and didn't really feel like she had a backstory that could put her on a parallel course with CHARNAME, imo.
Quayle was much more straightforward. He was an arrogant ass, but at least the character was implemented in a way that he was consistent with the game and compatible with a wide range of characters.
Aerie's not so different from the children that fled Candlekeep not long before, except that for her it's a choice. She was never really a performer in the circus; once she was freed from her cage, she earnt her keep doing chores. She learnt her magic from Quayle, who was an adventurer who has some connection with the Sigil Troupe, so possibly has been to other planes at some point, and she herself is also very determined to get out into the world and make a difference, and claim a new identity for herself, since the old one got taken away. It all seems pretty straightforward to me.
Damnit, Aerie! This is why I don't like her because of this one time thing. I tried giving her another attempt but then Jaheria had a go at her every conversation piece which amused me.
And by metagamming, be prepared in ToB, cos Aerie got pregnant in this game in the romance, and then, boom!! alimony duty for you my friend! Consider yourself lucky if you can afford potions in ToB