This thread is very interesting to read. It seems to have hit a nerve with people, regarding Aerie. I've seen similar arguments break out over the virtues or the vices of Jaheira, Minsc, and Anomen.
I think it speaks to how well-written these characters are that they can provoke such strong emotional reactions in people, both positive and negative.
You can count me in with the Aerie sympathizers. As for Quayle, I rather enjoy eccentric comedy-relief characters like him. He did save and adopt Aerie, and she obviously loves and respects him, which probably has mellowed him and possibly redeemed him from his earlier egotism.
If he were available as a party member in BG2, why not have both of them? They could cover all your divine and arcane magic needs, freeing your other four slots for melee, stealth, and traps/locks specialists.
Stats dont mean much when you're a spell casting machine like the two of them. They have unlimitied buffs and options, so it comes down to intangebles. Quayle has a quick casting invisibility spell, and a funny attitude.
This thread is very interesting to read. It seems to have hit a nerve with people, regarding Aerie. I've seen similar arguments break out over the virtues or the vices of Jaheira, Minsc, and Anomen.
I think it speaks to how well-written these characters are that they can provoke such strong emotional reactions in people, both positive and negative.
Well... when it comes to Anomen, I think attitudes are pretty unanimous from what I've seen. And not in a good way for him. lol
I was hoping he'd have 'wised up' by now in my BG 2 run, but despite becoming a full knight of the Order, his head is still too big to fit through the doors of the Mithrest.
I won't replace him though, mainly cos I've already gotten used to him, and he has actually become very powerful. Which must be annoying for Jin, given what happens in Spellhold...
@Heindrich1988, attitudes are *not* "unanimous" regarding Ano. I like him a lot, and I have said so before.
The nasty things he says before his sister dies and before Charname influences him are the reason for the hate.
It might be true to say that the *majority* don't like him, but I am not a part of that majority.
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned other characters besides Aerie, because I don't want to derail the thread.
I once started a thread in reaction to one of Ano's nastier comments, saying I wasn't sure I liked him any more, but I wound up defending him. I'm not too sure I want to resurrect it, since I don't even feel as strongly any more about some of the things I said at the time, but if you want to read it, it's here:
fair warning and disclaimer: I'm gay, and I have a crush on him. If you're not cool with that sort of thing, just ignore that thread, and let's go back to talking about Aerie.
I just read that thread, not every comment of course, but some of it was pretty entertaining lol... I totally understand how your view of him might be 'distorted' by your different perspective :P I might be less sympathetic to Aerie's whining phase if she didn't have a sweet voice and look something like the above (actually even her original portrait is pretty cute once I got over the weird hairstyle and facial markings). It's a bit of a shame but all people are shallow to an extent, I can't help it even if I recognise it and know it's not 'right'.
Anyway back to Ano... I just wished he progressed a bit more personality-wise. Jaheira got over her passive-aggressive phase pretty quickly and Aerie has grown and blossomed. Only Anomen seems to retain his major character flaw. It seems almost like a bug, like the devs forgot to turn off his more grating comments after his knighthood.
ps: Oh and in my playthrough, I imagine there'd be some tension between Jin and Ano cos Anomen is the only one who doesn't really show him much respect, and Jin obviously has some ego too. It also happens that Anomen is the only one who rival's Jin's power and can probably beat him in single combat depending on what spells the combatants had available.
anomen is f/c he is better than every healer in the game it so HARD to argue about that viconia is really weak in melee even as strong drowish women aerie is weak in melee but mage class helps so eventually she will own everyone with 3x sunfire greater restoration and such jaheira is good but she is in the middle ground without buffs like cleric cernd is only single class so it is hard to argue singleclass vs powergaming dual/multi classes
I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?
Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.
That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.
OH DEAR!
I don't think Aerie's wings count as someone else's 'super cool extra third arm'. Wings are the defining characteristic of Avariel, aka winged elves. From the moment they are born, they get used to them, they live in far away, hard to reach places and fly all day among the clouds and mountain tops. It's what defines them as a race.
If you want to make a real life analogy, think of a very healthy, strong and rich lady who enjoys jogging and sprinting and even has won a few contests, maybe she is a well known athlete in that area and is proud of her strong, agile legs. One day she takes on a trip to a poor, far-away land. There she sees a sick, poor child being beaten by evil people. She could just walk on, but she despises cruelty and confronts the child's attackers, and child escapes. But the evil people capture her, take her away, and abuse and use her as a slave for years. They torture, humiliate and eventually mutiliate her so much that her legs become necrotic and they saw them off cruelly. When finally she is rescued from their captors, she is broken:years of torture and abuse had forever left a mark, once she could walk and run freely, she now is confined to a wheel-chair.
Yet what does this lady do? She still wishes to use her power and money to further help other poor people. (Money and power=magical skills in Aerie's case) She does not become hateful, or cynical. She never gives up trying to do the right thing. She sure has some depressed moments, and at times questions her choice and reminiscens the past where she could freely walk and run as fast as the wind, that made her special and people admired her, that's all gone and will never come back. But come on, she is only human, I think it is perfectly natural to struggle when something that terrible happens.
Yeah that's what Aerie is like to me. She is awesome.
Much like the other example, this really only works if this rich woman is then forced to live amongst people who also have no legs. Not only do they not have any legs, but they've never known what having legs is like. The very idea of it is strange, magical and alluring to them. Then this rich old lady lives with them and constantly complains that things were soo much better when she had legs. Not having legs is the worst thing that could possibly have befallen her and she can't comprehend how anyone can be happy not having legs.
Sure, Aerie doesn't get down about it. She is still a good person, but she constantly whines about how much better things were for her before instead of trying to move on. She dwells on the past horrors that happened to her and never lets anyone forget what a better life she used to have before she met all of you. While inherently good it makes for a personality I would rather not be around. Kind of a debbie downer, no? I'm not trivializing what happened to Aerie, certainly having your wings sawed off would suck, but how many damn times do I have to hear about it? As many times as she has dialogues in the game? Yeah, no thanks.
You don't have to hear about it at all, even if you have her in your party. She only talks about it if you romance her, so she has to have some level of trust toward the PC. Every dialogue she initiates with another NPC is always her asking questions about them. The idea that she is constantly whining and complaining about these things is just, well, not true. An actual whiner is someone like Skie who constantly complains about breaking a nail and tiny trivial things like that. Not someone like Aerie who occasionally complains about a really gigantic thing that happened. Most of the time she is very quiet about it and shows that she is very interested and concerned about the other characters around her. But staying quiet and just burying things deep down isn't actually moving on at all; it just leads to far more anxiety and stress in the long run, and moving on is what she wants. It's why she joins the party in the first place (well, one reason).
Losing her wings does of course have far wider implications than just not being able to fly, and in any case that's actually just the culmination of a long period of abuse. Younger Aerie, when she had her wings, wouldn't have thought of herself as being that special because of course every other avariel would have had them as well. But losing her wings is taking away her whole identity as an avariel, and of course it means she can longer go home and be with her family and people again and have things be like they were before she was captured, tortured, broken and humiliated. Once she's gotten things off her chest, she creates a new identity for herself; being a wingless winged elf is part of it, and something I imagine she will later just joke about.
Oh, so you're saying that if I don't want to hear her whine just don't be Charname? Ok. Or just tell her to shut up every time she talks to me... k. That seems kinda silly really, to say that she only whines when she talks to your character and that every time she talks to the other NPC's she doesn't whine as much so therefore she isn't a whiner.
I'm sorry but even if you are complaining about something that is completely awful, like you found a severed finger in your minestrone soup, you are still complaining. To say she's not whining when she whines about getting her wings cut off, because getting your wings cut off really sucks for her, doesn't change the fact she was whining. You might have more tolerance for it, I don't. That's why my vote fell on Quayle.
I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?
Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.
That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.
OH DEAR!
I don't think Aerie's wings count as someone else's 'super cool extra third arm'. Wings are the defining characteristic of Avariel, aka winged elves. From the moment they are born, they get used to them, they live in far away, hard to reach places and fly all day among the clouds and mountain tops. It's what defines them as a race.
If you want to make a real life analogy, think of a very healthy, strong and rich lady who enjoys jogging and sprinting and even has won a few contests, maybe she is a well known athlete in that area and is proud of her strong, agile legs. One day she takes on a trip to a poor, far-away land. There she sees a sick, poor child being beaten by evil people. She could just walk on, but she despises cruelty and confronts the child's attackers, and child escapes. But the evil people capture her, take her away, and abuse and use her as a slave for years. They torture, humiliate and eventually mutiliate her so much that her legs become necrotic and they saw them off cruelly. When finally she is rescued from their captors, she is broken:years of torture and abuse had forever left a mark, once she could walk and run freely, she now is confined to a wheel-chair.
Yet what does this lady do? She still wishes to use her power and money to further help other poor people. (Money and power=magical skills in Aerie's case) She does not become hateful, or cynical. She never gives up trying to do the right thing. She sure has some depressed moments, and at times questions her choice and reminiscens the past where she could freely walk and run as fast as the wind, that made her special and people admired her, that's all gone and will never come back. But come on, she is only human, I think it is perfectly natural to struggle when something that terrible happens.
Yeah that's what Aerie is like to me. She is awesome.
Much like the other example, this really only works if this rich woman is then forced to live amongst people who also have no legs. Not only do they not have any legs, but they've never known what having legs is like. The very idea of it is strange, magical and alluring to them. Then this rich old lady lives with them and constantly complains that things were soo much better when she had legs. Not having legs is the worst thing that could possibly have befallen her and she can't comprehend how anyone can be happy not having legs.
Sure, Aerie doesn't get down about it. She is still a good person, but she constantly whines about how much better things were for her before instead of trying to move on. She dwells on the past horrors that happened to her and never lets anyone forget what a better life she used to have before she met all of you. While inherently good it makes for a personality I would rather not be around. Kind of a debbie downer, no? I'm not trivializing what happened to Aerie, certainly having your wings sawed off would suck, but how many damn times do I have to hear about it? As many times as she has dialogues in the game? Yeah, no thanks.
You don't have to hear about it at all, even if you have her in your party. She only talks about it if you romance her, so she has to have some level of trust toward the PC. Every dialogue she initiates with another NPC is always her asking questions about them. The idea that she is constantly whining and complaining about these things is just, well, not true. An actual whiner is someone like Skie who constantly complains about breaking a nail and tiny trivial things like that. Not someone like Aerie who occasionally complains about a really gigantic thing that happened. Most of the time she is very quiet about it and shows that she is very interested and concerned about the other characters around her. But staying quiet and just burying things deep down isn't actually moving on at all; it just leads to far more anxiety and stress in the long run, and moving on is what she wants. It's why she joins the party in the first place (well, one reason).
Losing her wings does of course have far wider implications than just not being able to fly, and in any case that's actually just the culmination of a long period of abuse. Younger Aerie, when she had her wings, wouldn't have thought of herself as being that special because of course every other avariel would have had them as well. But losing her wings is taking away her whole identity as an avariel, and of course it means she can longer go home and be with her family and people again and have things be like they were before she was captured, tortured, broken and humiliated. Once she's gotten things off her chest, she creates a new identity for herself; being a wingless winged elf is part of it, and something I imagine she will later just joke about.
Oh, so you're saying that if I don't want to hear her whine just don't be Charname? Ok. Or just tell her to shut up every time she talks to me... k. That seems kinda silly really, to say that she only whines when she talks to your character and that every time she talks to the other NPC's she doesn't whine as much so therefore she isn't a whiner.
I'm sorry but even if you are complaining about something that is completely awful, like you found a severed finger in your minestrone soup, you are still complaining. To say she's not whining when she whines about getting her wings cut off, because getting your wings cut off really sucks for her, doesn't change the fact she was whining. You might have more tolerance for it, I don't. That's why my vote fell on Quayle.
Yes, it does. Whining in this context really means to constantly complain about things that are unimportant and trivial. Aerie's complaining is neither constant, nor is it trivial. And if you don't want to hear it, you can just tell her you don't want to hear about it, and astonishingly she'll then stop talking to Charname about it. You only have to do it once, and the total number of times she whines to an NPC is 0.
My vote fell for Aerie because all the things said against her are either entirely false or are just as true for plenty of other characters who are allowed to get away with it.
I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?
Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.
That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.
OH DEAR!
I don't think Aerie's wings count as someone else's 'super cool extra third arm'. Wings are the defining characteristic of Avariel, aka winged elves. From the moment they are born, they get used to them, they live in far away, hard to reach places and fly all day among the clouds and mountain tops. It's what defines them as a race.
If you want to make a real life analogy, think of a very healthy, strong and rich lady who enjoys jogging and sprinting and even has won a few contests, maybe she is a well known athlete in that area and is proud of her strong, agile legs. One day she takes on a trip to a poor, far-away land. There she sees a sick, poor child being beaten by evil people. She could just walk on, but she despises cruelty and confronts the child's attackers, and child escapes. But the evil people capture her, take her away, and abuse and use her as a slave for years. They torture, humiliate and eventually mutiliate her so much that her legs become necrotic and they saw them off cruelly. When finally she is rescued from their captors, she is broken:years of torture and abuse had forever left a mark, once she could walk and run freely, she now is confined to a wheel-chair.
Yet what does this lady do? She still wishes to use her power and money to further help other poor people. (Money and power=magical skills in Aerie's case) She does not become hateful, or cynical. She never gives up trying to do the right thing. She sure has some depressed moments, and at times questions her choice and reminiscens the past where she could freely walk and run as fast as the wind, that made her special and people admired her, that's all gone and will never come back. But come on, she is only human, I think it is perfectly natural to struggle when something that terrible happens.
Yeah that's what Aerie is like to me. She is awesome.
Much like the other example, this really only works if this rich woman is then forced to live amongst people who also have no legs. Not only do they not have any legs, but they've never known what having legs is like. The very idea of it is strange, magical and alluring to them. Then this rich old lady lives with them and constantly complains that things were soo much better when she had legs. Not having legs is the worst thing that could possibly have befallen her and she can't comprehend how anyone can be happy not having legs.
Sure, Aerie doesn't get down about it. She is still a good person, but she constantly whines about how much better things were for her before instead of trying to move on. She dwells on the past horrors that happened to her and never lets anyone forget what a better life she used to have before she met all of you. While inherently good it makes for a personality I would rather not be around. Kind of a debbie downer, no? I'm not trivializing what happened to Aerie, certainly having your wings sawed off would suck, but how many damn times do I have to hear about it? As many times as she has dialogues in the game? Yeah, no thanks.
You don't have to hear about it at all, even if you have her in your party. She only talks about it if you romance her, so she has to have some level of trust toward the PC. Every dialogue she initiates with another NPC is always her asking questions about them. The idea that she is constantly whining and complaining about these things is just, well, not true. An actual whiner is someone like Skie who constantly complains about breaking a nail and tiny trivial things like that. Not someone like Aerie who occasionally complains about a really gigantic thing that happened. Most of the time she is very quiet about it and shows that she is very interested and concerned about the other characters around her. But staying quiet and just burying things deep down isn't actually moving on at all; it just leads to far more anxiety and stress in the long run, and moving on is what she wants. It's why she joins the party in the first place (well, one reason).
Losing her wings does of course have far wider implications than just not being able to fly, and in any case that's actually just the culmination of a long period of abuse. Younger Aerie, when she had her wings, wouldn't have thought of herself as being that special because of course every other avariel would have had them as well. But losing her wings is taking away her whole identity as an avariel, and of course it means she can longer go home and be with her family and people again and have things be like they were before she was captured, tortured, broken and humiliated. Once she's gotten things off her chest, she creates a new identity for herself; being a wingless winged elf is part of it, and something I imagine she will later just joke about.
Oh, so you're saying that if I don't want to hear her whine just don't be Charname? Ok. Or just tell her to shut up every time she talks to me... k. That seems kinda silly really, to say that she only whines when she talks to your character and that every time she talks to the other NPC's she doesn't whine as much so therefore she isn't a whiner.
I'm sorry but even if you are complaining about something that is completely awful, like you found a severed finger in your minestrone soup, you are still complaining. To say she's not whining when she whines about getting her wings cut off, because getting your wings cut off really sucks for her, doesn't change the fact she was whining. You might have more tolerance for it, I don't. That's why my vote fell on Quayle.
Yes, it does. Whining in this context really means to constantly complain about things that are unimportant and trivial. Aerie's complaining is neither constant, nor is it trivial. And if you don't want to hear it, you can just tell her you don't want to hear about it, and astonishingly she'll then stop talking to Charname about it. You only have to do it once, and the total number of times she whines to an NPC is 0.
My vote fell for Aerie because all the things said against her are either entirely false or are just as true for plenty of other characters who are allowed to get away with it.
Whining present participle of whine (Verb) Verb
1. Give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound. 2. Complain in a feeble or petulant way.
Aeries does both of these things. The definition has no room for whether or not you think it is justified.
Actually the easiest way not to hear her whining is to not take her along. I typically don't. Quayle foreva.
I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?
Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.
That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.
OH DEAR!
I don't think Aerie's wings count as someone else's 'super cool extra third arm'. Wings are the defining characteristic of Avariel, aka winged elves. From the moment they are born, they get used to them, they live in far away, hard to reach places and fly all day among the clouds and mountain tops. It's what defines them as a race.
If you want to make a real life analogy, think of a very healthy, strong and rich lady who enjoys jogging and sprinting and even has won a few contests, maybe she is a well known athlete in that area and is proud of her strong, agile legs. One day she takes on a trip to a poor, far-away land. There she sees a sick, poor child being beaten by evil people. She could just walk on, but she despises cruelty and confronts the child's attackers, and child escapes. But the evil people capture her, take her away, and abuse and use her as a slave for years. They torture, humiliate and eventually mutiliate her so much that her legs become necrotic and they saw them off cruelly. When finally she is rescued from their captors, she is broken:years of torture and abuse had forever left a mark, once she could walk and run freely, she now is confined to a wheel-chair.
Yet what does this lady do? She still wishes to use her power and money to further help other poor people. (Money and power=magical skills in Aerie's case) She does not become hateful, or cynical. She never gives up trying to do the right thing. She sure has some depressed moments, and at times questions her choice and reminiscens the past where she could freely walk and run as fast as the wind, that made her special and people admired her, that's all gone and will never come back. But come on, she is only human, I think it is perfectly natural to struggle when something that terrible happens.
Yeah that's what Aerie is like to me. She is awesome.
Much like the other example, this really only works if this rich woman is then forced to live amongst people who also have no legs. Not only do they not have any legs, but they've never known what having legs is like. The very idea of it is strange, magical and alluring to them. Then this rich old lady lives with them and constantly complains that things were soo much better when she had legs. Not having legs is the worst thing that could possibly have befallen her and she can't comprehend how anyone can be happy not having legs.
Sure, Aerie doesn't get down about it. She is still a good person, but she constantly whines about how much better things were for her before instead of trying to move on. She dwells on the past horrors that happened to her and never lets anyone forget what a better life she used to have before she met all of you. While inherently good it makes for a personality I would rather not be around. Kind of a debbie downer, no? I'm not trivializing what happened to Aerie, certainly having your wings sawed off would suck, but how many damn times do I have to hear about it? As many times as she has dialogues in the game? Yeah, no thanks.
You don't have to hear about it at all, even if you have her in your party. She only talks about it if you romance her, so she has to have some level of trust toward the PC. Every dialogue she initiates with another NPC is always her asking questions about them. The idea that she is constantly whining and complaining about these things is just, well, not true. An actual whiner is someone like Skie who constantly complains about breaking a nail and tiny trivial things like that. Not someone like Aerie who occasionally complains about a really gigantic thing that happened. Most of the time she is very quiet about it and shows that she is very interested and concerned about the other characters around her. But staying quiet and just burying things deep down isn't actually moving on at all; it just leads to far more anxiety and stress in the long run, and moving on is what she wants. It's why she joins the party in the first place (well, one reason).
Losing her wings does of course have far wider implications than just not being able to fly, and in any case that's actually just the culmination of a long period of abuse. Younger Aerie, when she had her wings, wouldn't have thought of herself as being that special because of course every other avariel would have had them as well. But losing her wings is taking away her whole identity as an avariel, and of course it means she can longer go home and be with her family and people again and have things be like they were before she was captured, tortured, broken and humiliated. Once she's gotten things off her chest, she creates a new identity for herself; being a wingless winged elf is part of it, and something I imagine she will later just joke about.
Oh, so you're saying that if I don't want to hear her whine just don't be Charname? Ok. Or just tell her to shut up every time she talks to me... k. That seems kinda silly really, to say that she only whines when she talks to your character and that every time she talks to the other NPC's she doesn't whine as much so therefore she isn't a whiner.
I'm sorry but even if you are complaining about something that is completely awful, like you found a severed finger in your minestrone soup, you are still complaining. To say she's not whining when she whines about getting her wings cut off, because getting your wings cut off really sucks for her, doesn't change the fact she was whining. You might have more tolerance for it, I don't. That's why my vote fell on Quayle.
Yes, it does. Whining in this context really means to constantly complain about things that are unimportant and trivial. Aerie's complaining is neither constant, nor is it trivial. And if you don't want to hear it, you can just tell her you don't want to hear about it, and astonishingly she'll then stop talking to Charname about it. You only have to do it once, and the total number of times she whines to an NPC is 0.
My vote fell for Aerie because all the things said against her are either entirely false or are just as true for plenty of other characters who are allowed to get away with it.
Whining present participle of whine (Verb) Verb
1. Give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound. 2. Complain in a feeble or petulant way.
Aeries does both of these things. The definition has no room for whether or not you think it is justified.
Actually the easiest way not to hear her whining is to not take her along. I typically don't. Quayle foreva.
Nope. By your own definition you've just given, the term whining clearly doesn't apply to Aerie. Her voice isn't high pitched (at least no more so than other young female characters like Nalia or Imoen), and petulant/feeble... what I've already explained about her occasional complaining not being about anything trivial. I'm not sure exactly where the line is, but there clearly is a huge gap between someone breaking a nail, and someone who's been kidnapped from their home, tortured, broken, sold and humiliated.
I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?
Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.
That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.
OH DEAR!
I don't think Aerie's wings count as someone else's 'super cool extra third arm'. Wings are the defining characteristic of Avariel, aka winged elves. From the moment they are born, they get used to them, they live in far away, hard to reach places and fly all day among the clouds and mountain tops. It's what defines them as a race.
If you want to make a real life analogy, think of a very healthy, strong and rich lady who enjoys jogging and sprinting and even has won a few contests, maybe she is a well known athlete in that area and is proud of her strong, agile legs. One day she takes on a trip to a poor, far-away land. There she sees a sick, poor child being beaten by evil people. She could just walk on, but she despises cruelty and confronts the child's attackers, and child escapes. But the evil people capture her, take her away, and abuse and use her as a slave for years. They torture, humiliate and eventually mutiliate her so much that her legs become necrotic and they saw them off cruelly. When finally she is rescued from their captors, she is broken:years of torture and abuse had forever left a mark, once she could walk and run freely, she now is confined to a wheel-chair.
Yet what does this lady do? She still wishes to use her power and money to further help other poor people. (Money and power=magical skills in Aerie's case) She does not become hateful, or cynical. She never gives up trying to do the right thing. She sure has some depressed moments, and at times questions her choice and reminiscens the past where she could freely walk and run as fast as the wind, that made her special and people admired her, that's all gone and will never come back. But come on, she is only human, I think it is perfectly natural to struggle when something that terrible happens.
Yeah that's what Aerie is like to me. She is awesome.
Much like the other example, this really only works if this rich woman is then forced to live amongst people who also have no legs. Not only do they not have any legs, but they've never known what having legs is like. The very idea of it is strange, magical and alluring to them. Then this rich old lady lives with them and constantly complains that things were soo much better when she had legs. Not having legs is the worst thing that could possibly have befallen her and she can't comprehend how anyone can be happy not having legs.
Sure, Aerie doesn't get down about it. She is still a good person, but she constantly whines about how much better things were for her before instead of trying to move on. She dwells on the past horrors that happened to her and never lets anyone forget what a better life she used to have before she met all of you. While inherently good it makes for a personality I would rather not be around. Kind of a debbie downer, no? I'm not trivializing what happened to Aerie, certainly having your wings sawed off would suck, but how many damn times do I have to hear about it? As many times as she has dialogues in the game? Yeah, no thanks.
You don't have to hear about it at all, even if you have her in your party. She only talks about it if you romance her, so she has to have some level of trust toward the PC. Every dialogue she initiates with another NPC is always her asking questions about them. The idea that she is constantly whining and complaining about these things is just, well, not true. An actual whiner is someone like Skie who constantly complains about breaking a nail and tiny trivial things like that. Not someone like Aerie who occasionally complains about a really gigantic thing that happened. Most of the time she is very quiet about it and shows that she is very interested and concerned about the other characters around her. But staying quiet and just burying things deep down isn't actually moving on at all; it just leads to far more anxiety and stress in the long run, and moving on is what she wants. It's why she joins the party in the first place (well, one reason).
Losing her wings does of course have far wider implications than just not being able to fly, and in any case that's actually just the culmination of a long period of abuse. Younger Aerie, when she had her wings, wouldn't have thought of herself as being that special because of course every other avariel would have had them as well. But losing her wings is taking away her whole identity as an avariel, and of course it means she can longer go home and be with her family and people again and have things be like they were before she was captured, tortured, broken and humiliated. Once she's gotten things off her chest, she creates a new identity for herself; being a wingless winged elf is part of it, and something I imagine she will later just joke about.
Oh, so you're saying that if I don't want to hear her whine just don't be Charname? Ok. Or just tell her to shut up every time she talks to me... k. That seems kinda silly really, to say that she only whines when she talks to your character and that every time she talks to the other NPC's she doesn't whine as much so therefore she isn't a whiner.
I'm sorry but even if you are complaining about something that is completely awful, like you found a severed finger in your minestrone soup, you are still complaining. To say she's not whining when she whines about getting her wings cut off, because getting your wings cut off really sucks for her, doesn't change the fact she was whining. You might have more tolerance for it, I don't. That's why my vote fell on Quayle.
Yes, it does. Whining in this context really means to constantly complain about things that are unimportant and trivial. Aerie's complaining is neither constant, nor is it trivial. And if you don't want to hear it, you can just tell her you don't want to hear about it, and astonishingly she'll then stop talking to Charname about it. You only have to do it once, and the total number of times she whines to an NPC is 0.
My vote fell for Aerie because all the things said against her are either entirely false or are just as true for plenty of other characters who are allowed to get away with it.
Whining present participle of whine (Verb) Verb
1. Give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound. 2. Complain in a feeble or petulant way.
Aeries does both of these things. The definition has no room for whether or not you think it is justified.
Actually the easiest way not to hear her whining is to not take her along. I typically don't. Quayle foreva.
Nope. By your own definition you've just given, the term whining clearly doesn't apply to Aerie. Her voice isn't high pitched (at least no more so than other young female characters like Nalia or Imoen), and petulant/feeble... what I've already explained about her occasional complaining not being about anything trivial. I'm not sure exactly where the line is, but there clearly is a huge gap between someone breaking a nail, and someone who's been kidnapped from their home, tortured, broken, sold and humiliated.
Aerie has a high pitched voice, more so than both Nalia and Imoen. She is also petulent and feeble in that she stutters from time to time and always seeks the approval of others to boost her own self esteem, unlike say Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Nalia or any other female character in the saga who are much more strong willed than her. Trying to say she doesn't meet these two criteria for the definition of whining is like trying to tell me my car isn't red, that it's "blood red." Also being petulent or feeble has NOTHING to do with the reason why she is complaining... I'll repeat myself for you: Complain in a petulant of feeble WAY. Emphasis mine. It is the manner in which she complains, not the reason why. You're welcome for the clarification.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
In almost all games i keep Aerie, she is a powerhouse of spells and could join very early in the game. The occasional whining doesn't really bother me. The insistence of going on their questline does, but Minsc and Jaheira do the same.
Quayle: heh, a gnome sitting on the road when i approach Baldur's Gate with a full party. No chance, gnome.
Aerie has a high pitched voice, more so than both Nalia and Imoen. She is also petulent and feeble in that she stutters from time to time and always seeks the approval of others to boost her own self esteem, unlike say Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Nalia or any other female character in the saga who are much more strong willed than her. Trying to say she doesn't meet these two criteria for the definition of whining is like trying to tell me my car isn't red, that it's "blood red." Also being petulent or feeble has NOTHING to do with the reason why she is complaining... I'll repeat myself for you: Complain in a petulant of feeble WAY. Emphasis mine. It is the manner in which she complains, not the reason why. You're welcome for the clarification.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
Ok... quite a long time ago I decided that you are too stubborn to bother trying to persuade, so I stopped commenting on this 'debate'. 'Agree to disgree', so to speak... but now you've crossed a line, because clearly you don't understand that sentiment.
It seems YOU are the one who enjoys arguing for the sake of it, and claims it is 'ridiculous' that people don't accept your view on Aerie. Your tone was never particularly polite, but now it has descended into down-right rudeness and condescension. If you repeatedly slam a character many players have grown to love in their BG 2 experience, you should expect some resistance. Live with it, many of us love Aerie, we think her 'high-pitched' voice is sweet, her traumatic history deserves sympathy and her inner-strength and fortitude marks her out as somebody very special, if she was a real person.
Courage is not the ability to pretend you are an uncaring badass, it's the ability to face your fears and press on through them. I believe Aerie demonstrates that in abundance, so no, I do not think she is 'weak' in the slightest.
Your attitude makes me wonder if you simply lack empathy. I hope it's not how you treat people in real life.
I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?
Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.
That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.
OH DEAR!
I don't think Aerie's wings count as someone else's 'super cool extra third arm'. Wings are the defining characteristic of Avariel, aka winged elves. From the moment they are born, they get used to them, they live in far away, hard to reach places and fly all day among the clouds and mountain tops. It's what defines them as a race.
If you want to make a real life analogy, think of a very healthy, strong and rich lady who enjoys jogging and sprinting and even has won a few contests, maybe she is a well known athlete in that area and is proud of her strong, agile legs. One day she takes on a trip to a poor, far-away land. There she sees a sick, poor child being beaten by evil people. She could just walk on, but she despises cruelty and confronts the child's attackers, and child escapes. But the evil people capture her, take her away, and abuse and use her as a slave for years. They torture, humiliate and eventually mutiliate her so much that her legs become necrotic and they saw them off cruelly. When finally she is rescued from their captors, she is broken:years of torture and abuse had forever left a mark, once she could walk and run freely, she now is confined to a wheel-chair.
Yet what does this lady do? She still wishes to use her power and money to further help other poor people. (Money and power=magical skills in Aerie's case) She does not become hateful, or cynical. She never gives up trying to do the right thing. She sure has some depressed moments, and at times questions her choice and reminiscens the past where she could freely walk and run as fast as the wind, that made her special and people admired her, that's all gone and will never come back. But come on, she is only human, I think it is perfectly natural to struggle when something that terrible happens.
Yeah that's what Aerie is like to me. She is awesome.
Much like the other example, this really only works if this rich woman is then forced to live amongst people who also have no legs. Not only do they not have any legs, but they've never known what having legs is like. The very idea of it is strange, magical and alluring to them. Then this rich old lady lives with them and constantly complains that things were soo much better when she had legs. Not having legs is the worst thing that could possibly have befallen her and she can't comprehend how anyone can be happy not having legs.
Sure, Aerie doesn't get down about it. She is still a good person, but she constantly whines about how much better things were for her before instead of trying to move on. She dwells on the past horrors that happened to her and never lets anyone forget what a better life she used to have before she met all of you. While inherently good it makes for a personality I would rather not be around. Kind of a debbie downer, no? I'm not trivializing what happened to Aerie, certainly having your wings sawed off would suck, but how many damn times do I have to hear about it? As many times as she has dialogues in the game? Yeah, no thanks.
You don't have to hear about it at all, even if you have her in your party. She only talks about it if you romance her, so she has to have some level of trust toward the PC. Every dialogue she initiates with another NPC is always her asking questions about them. The idea that she is constantly whining and complaining about these things is just, well, not true. An actual whiner is someone like Skie who constantly complains about breaking a nail and tiny trivial things like that. Not someone like Aerie who occasionally complains about a really gigantic thing that happened. Most of the time she is very quiet about it and shows that she is very interested and concerned about the other characters around her. But staying quiet and just burying things deep down isn't actually moving on at all; it just leads to far more anxiety and stress in the long run, and moving on is what she wants. It's why she joins the party in the first place (well, one reason).
Losing her wings does of course have far wider implications than just not being able to fly, and in any case that's actually just the culmination of a long period of abuse. Younger Aerie, when she had her wings, wouldn't have thought of herself as being that special because of course every other avariel would have had them as well. But losing her wings is taking away her whole identity as an avariel, and of course it means she can longer go home and be with her family and people again and have things be like they were before she was captured, tortured, broken and humiliated. Once she's gotten things off her chest, she creates a new identity for herself; being a wingless winged elf is part of it, and something I imagine she will later just joke about.
Oh, so you're saying that if I don't want to hear her whine just don't be Charname? Ok. Or just tell her to shut up every time she talks to me... k. That seems kinda silly really, to say that she only whines when she talks to your character and that every time she talks to the other NPC's she doesn't whine as much so therefore she isn't a whiner.
I'm sorry but even if you are complaining about something that is completely awful, like you found a severed finger in your minestrone soup, you are still complaining. To say she's not whining when she whines about getting her wings cut off, because getting your wings cut off really sucks for her, doesn't change the fact she was whining. You might have more tolerance for it, I don't. That's why my vote fell on Quayle.
Yes, it does. Whining in this context really means to constantly complain about things that are unimportant and trivial. Aerie's complaining is neither constant, nor is it trivial. And if you don't want to hear it, you can just tell her you don't want to hear about it, and astonishingly she'll then stop talking to Charname about it. You only have to do it once, and the total number of times she whines to an NPC is 0.
My vote fell for Aerie because all the things said against her are either entirely false or are just as true for plenty of other characters who are allowed to get away with it.
Whining present participle of whine (Verb) Verb
1. Give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound. 2. Complain in a feeble or petulant way.
Aeries does both of these things. The definition has no room for whether or not you think it is justified.
Actually the easiest way not to hear her whining is to not take her along. I typically don't. Quayle foreva.
Nope. By your own definition you've just given, the term whining clearly doesn't apply to Aerie. Her voice isn't high pitched (at least no more so than other young female characters like Nalia or Imoen), and petulant/feeble... what I've already explained about her occasional complaining not being about anything trivial. I'm not sure exactly where the line is, but there clearly is a huge gap between someone breaking a nail, and someone who's been kidnapped from their home, tortured, broken, sold and humiliated.
Aerie has a high pitched voice, more so than both Nalia and Imoen. She is also petulent and feeble in that she stutters from time to time and always seeks the approval of others to boost her own self esteem, unlike say Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Nalia or any other female character in the saga who are much more strong willed than her. Trying to say she doesn't meet these two criteria for the definition of whining is like trying to tell me my car isn't red, that it's "blood red." Also being petulent or feeble has NOTHING to do with the reason why she is complaining... I'll repeat myself for you: Complain in a petulant of feeble WAY. Emphasis mine. It is the manner in which she complains, not the reason why. You're welcome for the clarification.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
Whether an opinion is popular or not is irrelevant if the facts don't support it, as in this case. And having listened a lot to the sound sets I'd say Imoen's voice is higher. Aerie is also a very strong willed character; more determined and more aggressive even than Nalia or even Imoen. Of course, she has to be because of all the things she's already endured. And yes, the reasons for complaining would be important in judging whether or not the complaint is feeble.
Yes, these arguments have gone on for years and inevitably get to the point where people determined not to like Aerie increasingly clutch at straws and end up saying things like 'oh, she says look at the start of a sentence... hate that'. It's fine not to like a character, although I don't understand why it's so important to some people and why they go to such great lengths and even just make up stuff in their attempts to justify it.
Aerie has a high pitched voice, more so than both Nalia and Imoen. She is also petulent and feeble in that she stutters from time to time and always seeks the approval of others to boost her own self esteem, unlike say Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Nalia or any other female character in the saga who are much more strong willed than her. Trying to say she doesn't meet these two criteria for the definition of whining is like trying to tell me my car isn't red, that it's "blood red." Also being petulent or feeble has NOTHING to do with the reason why she is complaining... I'll repeat myself for you: Complain in a petulant of feeble WAY. Emphasis mine. It is the manner in which she complains, not the reason why. You're welcome for the clarification.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
Ok... quite a long time ago I decided that you are too stubborn to bother trying to persuade, so I stopped commenting on this 'debate'. 'Agree to disgree', so to speak... but now you've crossed a line, because clearly you don't understand that sentiment.
It seems YOU are the one who enjoys arguing for the sake of it, and claims it is 'ridiculous' that people don't accept your view on Aerie. Your tone was never particularly polite, but now it has descended into down-right rudeness and condescension. If you repeatedly slam a character many players have grown to love in their BG 2 experience, you should expect some resistance. Live with it, many of us love Aerie, we think her 'high-pitched' voice is sweet, her traumatic history deserves sympathy and her inner-strength and fortitude marks her out as somebody very special, if she was a real person.
Courage is not the ability to pretend you are an uncaring badass, it's the ability to face your fears and press on through them. I believe Aerie demonstrates that in abundance, so no, I do not think she is 'weak' in the slightest.
Your attitude makes me wonder if you simply lack empathy. I hope it's not how you treat people in real life.
I claimed it was ridiculous to insist that Aerie wasn't whining when her behavior exactly matches the definition of the term not that anyone didn't accept my view on it. Also, I never slammed the character, I said I do not like taking her along because she whines. That's my preferrence and if that feels like a slam towards the character, whom I agreed was kind and good natured earlier on, then I'm sorry you feel that way but it's your problem not mine. I'm glad that you like the character Heindrich, I don't because she whines so I'm afraid you're going to have to "live with it" that I don't like her... I'm sure you'll be able to just fine, I'm having no troubles living with the fact that you like her. ~.^
Sorry that my opinion on a fictional video game character shook your faith in my empathy to the core. And yes this is how I "treat people in real life" too, when I don't agree with them on something I tell them why. Or did you mean how I'm treating Aerie? I'm not treating her in any way because she is a fictional character, I'm talking about the reasons why I do not enjoy her as a character... is that treating her badly? I hope I didn't hurt her non-existant feelings. But in all seriousness no, I don't hang around with people who whine all the time in real life either. If that makes me "cold hearted" because I don't like to listen to peoples problems over and over again then so be it I suppose.
@Coutelier It doesn't matter if the "complaint is feeble" or not! It is the manner in which you complain. If someone came into a grocery store and demanded he have the money for his banana's returned because there were too many stickers on them but did it in a gruff demanding voice that captured everyones attention and made his point with a bullet it wouldn't be whining. It is a feeble complaint, to be sure, but the manner in which it was delivered was not whining. You clearly don't understand what the definition of the word means even after having read it and having me explain it to you at least once so I see there's really no point in arguing the matter with you. Your opinion on whether someone whines or not when you don't know what whining is seems irrelevent.
Aerie has a high pitched voice, more so than both Nalia and Imoen. She is also petulent and feeble in that she stutters from time to time and always seeks the approval of others to boost her own self esteem, unlike say Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Nalia or any other female character in the saga who are much more strong willed than her. Trying to say she doesn't meet these two criteria for the definition of whining is like trying to tell me my car isn't red, that it's "blood red." Also being petulent or feeble has NOTHING to do with the reason why she is complaining... I'll repeat myself for you: Complain in a petulant of feeble WAY. Emphasis mine. It is the manner in which she complains, not the reason why. You're welcome for the clarification.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
Ok... quite a long time ago I decided that you are too stubborn to bother trying to persuade, so I stopped commenting on this 'debate'. 'Agree to disgree', so to speak... but now you've crossed a line, because clearly you don't understand that sentiment.
It seems YOU are the one who enjoys arguing for the sake of it, and claims it is 'ridiculous' that people don't accept your view on Aerie. Your tone was never particularly polite, but now it has descended into down-right rudeness and condescension. If you repeatedly slam a character many players have grown to love in their BG 2 experience, you should expect some resistance. Live with it, many of us love Aerie, we think her 'high-pitched' voice is sweet, her traumatic history deserves sympathy and her inner-strength and fortitude marks her out as somebody very special, if she was a real person.
Courage is not the ability to pretend you are an uncaring badass, it's the ability to face your fears and press on through them. I believe Aerie demonstrates that in abundance, so no, I do not think she is 'weak' in the slightest.
Your attitude makes me wonder if you simply lack empathy. I hope it's not how you treat people in real life.
I claimed it was ridiculous to insist that Aerie wasn't whining when her behavior exactly matches the definition of the term not that anyone didn't accept my view on it. Also, I never slammed the character, I said I do not like taking her along because she whines. That's my preferrence and if that feels like a slam towards the character, whom I agreed was kind and good natured earlier on, then I'm sorry you feel that way but it's your problem not mine. I'm glad that you like the character Heindrich, I don't because she whines so I'm afraid you're going to have to "live with it" that I don't like her... I'm sure you'll be able to just fine, I'm having no troubles living with the fact that you like her. ~.^
Sorry that my opinion on a fictional video game character shook your faith in my empathy to the core. And yes this is how I "treat people in real life" too, when I don't agree with them on something I tell them why. Or did you mean how I'm treating Aerie? I'm not treating her in any way because she is a fictional character, I'm talking about the reasons why I do not enjoy her as a character... is that treating her badly? I hope I didn't hurt her non-existant feelings. But in all seriousness no, I don't hang around with people who whine all the time in real life either. If that makes me "cold hearted" because I don't like to listen to peoples problems over and over again then so be it I suppose.
@Coutelier It doesn't matter if the "complaint is feeble" or not! It is the manner in which you complain. If someone came into a grocery store and demanded he have the money for his banana's returned because there were too many stickers on them but did it in a gruff demanding voice that captured everyones attention and made his point with a bullet it wouldn't be whining. It is a feeble complaint, to be sure, but the manner in which it was delivered was not whining. You clearly don't understand what the definition of the word means even after having read it and having me explain it to you at least once so I see there's really no point in arguing the matter with you. Your opinion on whether someone whines or not when you don't know what whining is seems irrelevent.
I do know what whining means, thanks. Sorry my dictionary doesn't exactly match what you had in your dictionary, but that's how these things go. The problem is that there are actually two meanings; one that applies to tone or sound of something, and one that applies to constantly complaining and moaning over nothing... I've shown her behavior doesn't exactly match either. Yes, in the example you gave the complaint is feeble. It's also trivial, and therefore is whining. Whereas with Aerie, yes, she stutters. But as that's a symptom of the traumatic past she's had and the fact that she's not used to communicating as an equal with anyone, I think to call it whining is simply being dismissive not to mention devaluing the word. The person's voice is irrelevant, as people clearly can't help what voice they have. Otherwise, I'd have to start believing that anytime anyone complains about anything who isn't some gruff, manly man, they're just whining.
A tip though; if you don't like Aerie, say it's because of the nasty things she says about Khalid. That at least definitely does happen and no one can dispute it. I would point out that Viconia does it well, and not just in the romantic catfights like Aerie does, but remarks casually outside them as well. It's obviously just far more shocking when Aerie does it because it's very unusual behavior for her, and you probably shouldn't read too much into things people say when they're depressed and angry anyway. But it does happen.
Aerie has a high pitched voice, more so than both Nalia and Imoen. She is also petulent and feeble in that she stutters from time to time and always seeks the approval of others to boost her own self esteem, unlike say Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Nalia or any other female character in the saga who are much more strong willed than her. Trying to say she doesn't meet these two criteria for the definition of whining is like trying to tell me my car isn't red, that it's "blood red." Also being petulent or feeble has NOTHING to do with the reason why she is complaining... I'll repeat myself for you: Complain in a petulant of feeble WAY. Emphasis mine. It is the manner in which she complains, not the reason why. You're welcome for the clarification.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
Ok... quite a long time ago I decided that you are too stubborn to bother trying to persuade, so I stopped commenting on this 'debate'. 'Agree to disgree', so to speak... but now you've crossed a line, because clearly you don't understand that sentiment.
It seems YOU are the one who enjoys arguing for the sake of it, and claims it is 'ridiculous' that people don't accept your view on Aerie. Your tone was never particularly polite, but now it has descended into down-right rudeness and condescension. If you repeatedly slam a character many players have grown to love in their BG 2 experience, you should expect some resistance. Live with it, many of us love Aerie, we think her 'high-pitched' voice is sweet, her traumatic history deserves sympathy and her inner-strength and fortitude marks her out as somebody very special, if she was a real person.
Courage is not the ability to pretend you are an uncaring badass, it's the ability to face your fears and press on through them. I believe Aerie demonstrates that in abundance, so no, I do not think she is 'weak' in the slightest.
Your attitude makes me wonder if you simply lack empathy. I hope it's not how you treat people in real life.
I claimed it was ridiculous to insist that Aerie wasn't whining when her behavior exactly matches the definition of the term not that anyone didn't accept my view on it. Also, I never slammed the character, I said I do not like taking her along because she whines. That's my preferrence and if that feels like a slam towards the character, whom I agreed was kind and good natured earlier on, then I'm sorry you feel that way but it's your problem not mine. I'm glad that you like the character Heindrich, I don't because she whines so I'm afraid you're going to have to "live with it" that I don't like her... I'm sure you'll be able to just fine, I'm having no troubles living with the fact that you like her. ~.^
Sorry that my opinion on a fictional video game character shook your faith in my empathy to the core. And yes this is how I "treat people in real life" too, when I don't agree with them on something I tell them why. Or did you mean how I'm treating Aerie? I'm not treating her in any way because she is a fictional character, I'm talking about the reasons why I do not enjoy her as a character... is that treating her badly? I hope I didn't hurt her non-existant feelings. But in all seriousness no, I don't hang around with people who whine all the time in real life either. If that makes me "cold hearted" because I don't like to listen to peoples problems over and over again then so be it I suppose.
@Coutelier It doesn't matter if the "complaint is feeble" or not! It is the manner in which you complain. If someone came into a grocery store and demanded he have the money for his banana's returned because there were too many stickers on them but did it in a gruff demanding voice that captured everyones attention and made his point with a bullet it wouldn't be whining. It is a feeble complaint, to be sure, but the manner in which it was delivered was not whining. You clearly don't understand what the definition of the word means even after having read it and having me explain it to you at least once so I see there's really no point in arguing the matter with you. Your opinion on whether someone whines or not when you don't know what whining is seems irrelevent.
I do know what whining means, thanks. Sorry my dictionary doesn't exactly match what you had in your dictionary, but that's how these things go. The problem is that there are actually two meanings; one that applies to tone or sound of something, and one that applies to constantly complaining and moaning over nothing... I've shown her behavior doesn't exactly match either. Yes, in the example you gave the complaint is feeble. It's also trivial, and therefore is whining. Whereas with Aerie, yes, she stutters. But as that's a symptom of the traumatic past she's had and the fact that she's not used to communicating as an equal with anyone, I think to call it whining is simply being dismissive not to mention devaluing the word. The person's voice is irrelevant, as people clearly can't help what voice they have. Otherwise, I'd have to start believing that anytime anyone complains about anything who isn't some gruff, manly man, they're just whining.
A tip though; if you don't like Aerie, say it's because of the nasty things she says about Khalid. That at least definitely does happen and no one can dispute it. I would point out that Viconia does it well, and not just in the romantic catfights like Aerie does, but remarks casually outside them as well. It's obviously just far more shocking when Aerie does it because it's very unusual behavior for her, and you probably shouldn't read too much into things people say when they're depressed and angry anyway. But it does happen.
Is that so? I'm curious what dictionary you use then.
"I've shown her behavior doesn't exactly match either."
"And having listened a lot to the sound sets I'd say Imoen's voice is higher." That doesn't show anything, that's your opinion. And this disproves nothing, at best all it means is that when Imoen complains she whines as well... good thing she doesn't complain constantly like Aerie.
"Aerie is also a very strong willed character; more determined and more aggressive even than Nalia or even Imoen." Has nothing to do with the way she complains, making her a whiner... unless you own the as of yet unnamed dictionary you possess that seems to have a different definition than every other dictionary.
Tip noted but I think I'll continue to dislike her for my own reasons.
Aerie has a high pitched voice, more so than both Nalia and Imoen. She is also petulent and feeble in that she stutters from time to time and always seeks the approval of others to boost her own self esteem, unlike say Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Nalia or any other female character in the saga who are much more strong willed than her. Trying to say she doesn't meet these two criteria for the definition of whining is like trying to tell me my car isn't red, that it's "blood red." Also being petulent or feeble has NOTHING to do with the reason why she is complaining... I'll repeat myself for you: Complain in a petulant of feeble WAY. Emphasis mine. It is the manner in which she complains, not the reason why. You're welcome for the clarification.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
Ok... quite a long time ago I decided that you are too stubborn to bother trying to persuade, so I stopped commenting on this 'debate'. 'Agree to disgree', so to speak... but now you've crossed a line, because clearly you don't understand that sentiment.
It seems YOU are the one who enjoys arguing for the sake of it, and claims it is 'ridiculous' that people don't accept your view on Aerie. Your tone was never particularly polite, but now it has descended into down-right rudeness and condescension. If you repeatedly slam a character many players have grown to love in their BG 2 experience, you should expect some resistance. Live with it, many of us love Aerie, we think her 'high-pitched' voice is sweet, her traumatic history deserves sympathy and her inner-strength and fortitude marks her out as somebody very special, if she was a real person.
Courage is not the ability to pretend you are an uncaring badass, it's the ability to face your fears and press on through them. I believe Aerie demonstrates that in abundance, so no, I do not think she is 'weak' in the slightest.
Your attitude makes me wonder if you simply lack empathy. I hope it's not how you treat people in real life.
I claimed it was ridiculous to insist that Aerie wasn't whining when her behavior exactly matches the definition of the term not that anyone didn't accept my view on it. Also, I never slammed the character, I said I do not like taking her along because she whines. That's my preferrence and if that feels like a slam towards the character, whom I agreed was kind and good natured earlier on, then I'm sorry you feel that way but it's your problem not mine. I'm glad that you like the character Heindrich, I don't because she whines so I'm afraid you're going to have to "live with it" that I don't like her... I'm sure you'll be able to just fine, I'm having no troubles living with the fact that you like her. ~.^
Sorry that my opinion on a fictional video game character shook your faith in my empathy to the core. And yes this is how I "treat people in real life" too, when I don't agree with them on something I tell them why. Or did you mean how I'm treating Aerie? I'm not treating her in any way because she is a fictional character, I'm talking about the reasons why I do not enjoy her as a character... is that treating her badly? I hope I didn't hurt her non-existant feelings. But in all seriousness no, I don't hang around with people who whine all the time in real life either. If that makes me "cold hearted" because I don't like to listen to peoples problems over and over again then so be it I suppose.
@Coutelier It doesn't matter if the "complaint is feeble" or not! It is the manner in which you complain. If someone came into a grocery store and demanded he have the money for his banana's returned because there were too many stickers on them but did it in a gruff demanding voice that captured everyones attention and made his point with a bullet it wouldn't be whining. It is a feeble complaint, to be sure, but the manner in which it was delivered was not whining. You clearly don't understand what the definition of the word means even after having read it and having me explain it to you at least once so I see there's really no point in arguing the matter with you. Your opinion on whether someone whines or not when you don't know what whining is seems irrelevent.
I do know what whining means, thanks. Sorry my dictionary doesn't exactly match what you had in your dictionary, but that's how these things go. The problem is that there are actually two meanings; one that applies to tone or sound of something, and one that applies to constantly complaining and moaning over nothing... I've shown her behavior doesn't exactly match either. Yes, in the example you gave the complaint is feeble. It's also trivial, and therefore is whining. Whereas with Aerie, yes, she stutters. But as that's a symptom of the traumatic past she's had and the fact that she's not used to communicating as an equal with anyone, I think to call it whining is simply being dismissive not to mention devaluing the word. The person's voice is irrelevant, as people clearly can't help what voice they have. Otherwise, I'd have to start believing that anytime anyone complains about anything who isn't some gruff, manly man, they're just whining.
A tip though; if you don't like Aerie, say it's because of the nasty things she says about Khalid. That at least definitely does happen and no one can dispute it. I would point out that Viconia does it well, and not just in the romantic catfights like Aerie does, but remarks casually outside them as well. It's obviously just far more shocking when Aerie does it because it's very unusual behavior for her, and you probably shouldn't read too much into things people say when they're depressed and angry anyway. But it does happen.
Is that so? I'm curious what dictionary you use then.
"I've shown her behavior doesn't exactly match either."
"And having listened a lot to the sound sets I'd say Imoen's voice is higher." That doesn't show anything, that's your opinion. And this disproves nothing, at best all it means is that when Imoen complains she whines as well... good thing she doesn't complain constantly like Aerie.
It's an opinion either way, but as far as I can make out there is little discernible difference in the pitch of their voices. There are times when they go up, and times when they go down, but in general not much between them. Maybe Aerie does have a slightly higher pitched than an average woman, but she hardly sounds like Alora.
And as earlier established, Aerie doesn't constantly complain. She never discusses her wings with any other NPC, and only talks about it to the PC if she trusts and has feelings for them, and then she comes to terms with her feelings and stops.
"Aerie is also a very strong willed character; more determined and more aggressive even than Nalia or even Imoen." Has nothing to do with the way she complains, making her a whiner... unless you own the as of yet unnamed dictionary you possess that seems to have a different definition than every other dictionary.
Whining - adjective/noun.
1. A long, high, sad sound.
2. Making repeated, especially trivial, complaints.
Yes, I can copy and paste as well.
Tip noted but I think I'll continue to dislike her for my own reasons.
As you wish. I was just trying to help, as your reasons are nonsense.
Aerie has a high pitched voice, more so than both Nalia and Imoen. She is also petulent and feeble in that she stutters from time to time and always seeks the approval of others to boost her own self esteem, unlike say Imoen, Jahiera, Viconia, Nalia or any other female character in the saga who are much more strong willed than her. Trying to say she doesn't meet these two criteria for the definition of whining is like trying to tell me my car isn't red, that it's "blood red." Also being petulent or feeble has NOTHING to do with the reason why she is complaining... I'll repeat myself for you: Complain in a petulant of feeble WAY. Emphasis mine. It is the manner in which she complains, not the reason why. You're welcome for the clarification.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
Ok... quite a long time ago I decided that you are too stubborn to bother trying to persuade, so I stopped commenting on this 'debate'. 'Agree to disgree', so to speak... but now you've crossed a line, because clearly you don't understand that sentiment.
It seems YOU are the one who enjoys arguing for the sake of it, and claims it is 'ridiculous' that people don't accept your view on Aerie. Your tone was never particularly polite, but now it has descended into down-right rudeness and condescension. If you repeatedly slam a character many players have grown to love in their BG 2 experience, you should expect some resistance. Live with it, many of us love Aerie, we think her 'high-pitched' voice is sweet, her traumatic history deserves sympathy and her inner-strength and fortitude marks her out as somebody very special, if she was a real person.
Courage is not the ability to pretend you are an uncaring badass, it's the ability to face your fears and press on through them. I believe Aerie demonstrates that in abundance, so no, I do not think she is 'weak' in the slightest.
Your attitude makes me wonder if you simply lack empathy. I hope it's not how you treat people in real life.
I claimed it was ridiculous to insist that Aerie wasn't whining when her behavior exactly matches the definition of the term not that anyone didn't accept my view on it. Also, I never slammed the character, I said I do not like taking her along because she whines. That's my preferrence and if that feels like a slam towards the character, whom I agreed was kind and good natured earlier on, then I'm sorry you feel that way but it's your problem not mine. I'm glad that you like the character Heindrich, I don't because she whines so I'm afraid you're going to have to "live with it" that I don't like her... I'm sure you'll be able to just fine, I'm having no troubles living with the fact that you like her. ~.^
Sorry that my opinion on a fictional video game character shook your faith in my empathy to the core. And yes this is how I "treat people in real life" too, when I don't agree with them on something I tell them why. Or did you mean how I'm treating Aerie? I'm not treating her in any way because she is a fictional character, I'm talking about the reasons why I do not enjoy her as a character... is that treating her badly? I hope I didn't hurt her non-existant feelings. But in all seriousness no, I don't hang around with people who whine all the time in real life either. If that makes me "cold hearted" because I don't like to listen to peoples problems over and over again then so be it I suppose.
@Coutelier It doesn't matter if the "complaint is feeble" or not! It is the manner in which you complain. If someone came into a grocery store and demanded he have the money for his banana's returned because there were too many stickers on them but did it in a gruff demanding voice that captured everyones attention and made his point with a bullet it wouldn't be whining. It is a feeble complaint, to be sure, but the manner in which it was delivered was not whining. You clearly don't understand what the definition of the word means even after having read it and having me explain it to you at least once so I see there's really no point in arguing the matter with you. Your opinion on whether someone whines or not when you don't know what whining is seems irrelevent.
I do know what whining means, thanks. Sorry my dictionary doesn't exactly match what you had in your dictionary, but that's how these things go. The problem is that there are actually two meanings; one that applies to tone or sound of something, and one that applies to constantly complaining and moaning over nothing... I've shown her behavior doesn't exactly match either. Yes, in the example you gave the complaint is feeble. It's also trivial, and therefore is whining. Whereas with Aerie, yes, she stutters. But as that's a symptom of the traumatic past she's had and the fact that she's not used to communicating as an equal with anyone, I think to call it whining is simply being dismissive not to mention devaluing the word. The person's voice is irrelevant, as people clearly can't help what voice they have. Otherwise, I'd have to start believing that anytime anyone complains about anything who isn't some gruff, manly man, they're just whining.
A tip though; if you don't like Aerie, say it's because of the nasty things she says about Khalid. That at least definitely does happen and no one can dispute it. I would point out that Viconia does it well, and not just in the romantic catfights like Aerie does, but remarks casually outside them as well. It's obviously just far more shocking when Aerie does it because it's very unusual behavior for her, and you probably shouldn't read too much into things people say when they're depressed and angry anyway. But it does happen.
Is that so? I'm curious what dictionary you use then.
"I've shown her behavior doesn't exactly match either."
"And having listened a lot to the sound sets I'd say Imoen's voice is higher." That doesn't show anything, that's your opinion. And this disproves nothing, at best all it means is that when Imoen complains she whines as well... good thing she doesn't complain constantly like Aerie.
It's an opinion either way, but as far as I can make out there is little discernible difference in the pitch of their voices. There are times when they go up, and times when they go down, but in general not much between them. Maybe Aerie does have a slightly higher pitched than an average woman, but she hardly sounds like Alora.
And as earlier established, Aerie doesn't constantly complain. She never discusses her wings with any other NPC, and only talks about it to the PC if she trusts and has feelings for them, and then she comes to terms with her feelings and stops.
"Aerie is also a very strong willed character; more determined and more aggressive even than Nalia or even Imoen." Has nothing to do with the way she complains, making her a whiner... unless you own the as of yet unnamed dictionary you possess that seems to have a different definition than every other dictionary.
Whining - adjective/noun.
1. A long, high, sad sound.
2. Making repeated, especially trivial, complaints.
Yes, I can copy and paste as well.
Tip noted but I think I'll continue to dislike her for my own reasons.
As you wish. I was just trying to help, as your reasons are nonsense.
Well, Aerie is a bit annoying but... she's a girl, and a pretty one apparently (beside the scars in her back) and one of the 2 official romances that result in something (sometimes i can't believe that i face all the problematic romance with jaheira to get only lectures and no sweet time).
The problem is that we need to rush the game with Aerie and finish it before she get pregnant, cos dude, if that chick separate later from main char and ask alimony and pointment of goods she's going to broke my main char, gonna need to sell the whole equipments to keep it up!
Comments
I think it speaks to how well-written these characters are that they can provoke such strong emotional reactions in people, both positive and negative.
You can count me in with the Aerie sympathizers. As for Quayle, I rather enjoy eccentric comedy-relief characters like him. He did save and adopt Aerie, and she obviously loves and respects him, which probably has mellowed him and possibly redeemed him from his earlier egotism.
If he were available as a party member in BG2, why not have both of them? They could cover all your divine and arcane magic needs, freeing your other four slots for melee, stealth, and traps/locks specialists.
http://lasss333.deviantart.com/art/Aerie-175991827
http://nixxical.deviantart.com/art/Aerie-358142538
quale was doomed from the beginning
I was hoping he'd have 'wised up' by now in my BG 2 run, but despite becoming a full knight of the Order, his head is still too big to fit through the doors of the Mithrest.
I won't replace him though, mainly cos I've already gotten used to him, and he has actually become very powerful. Which must be annoying for Jin, given what happens in Spellhold...
It might be true to say that the *majority* don't like him, but I am not a part of that majority.
Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned other characters besides Aerie, because I don't want to derail the thread.
I once started a thread in reaction to one of Ano's nastier comments, saying I wasn't sure I liked him any more, but I wound up defending him. I'm not too sure I want to resurrect it, since I don't even feel as strongly any more about some of the things I said at the time, but if you want to read it, it's here:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/6595/reconsidering-ano-love/p1
fair warning and disclaimer: I'm gay, and I have a crush on him. If you're not cool with that sort of thing, just ignore that thread, and let's go back to talking about Aerie.
I just read that thread, not every comment of course, but some of it was pretty entertaining lol... I totally understand how your view of him might be 'distorted' by your different perspective :P I might be less sympathetic to Aerie's whining phase if she didn't have a sweet voice and look something like the above (actually even her original portrait is pretty cute once I got over the weird hairstyle and facial markings). It's a bit of a shame but all people are shallow to an extent, I can't help it even if I recognise it and know it's not 'right'.
Anyway back to Ano... I just wished he progressed a bit more personality-wise. Jaheira got over her passive-aggressive phase pretty quickly and Aerie has grown and blossomed. Only Anomen seems to retain his major character flaw. It seems almost like a bug, like the devs forgot to turn off his more grating comments after his knighthood.
ps: Oh and in my playthrough, I imagine there'd be some tension between Jin and Ano cos Anomen is the only one who doesn't really show him much respect, and Jin obviously has some ego too. It also happens that Anomen is the only one who rival's Jin's power and can probably beat him in single combat depending on what spells the combatants had available.
viconia is really weak in melee even as strong drowish women
aerie is weak in melee but mage class helps so eventually she will own everyone with 3x sunfire greater restoration and such
jaheira is good but she is in the middle ground without buffs like cleric
cernd is only single class so it is hard to argue singleclass vs powergaming dual/multi classes
i am arguing with myself omg
Oh, so you're saying that if I don't want to hear her whine just don't be Charname? Ok. Or just tell her to shut up every time she talks to me... k. That seems kinda silly really, to say that she only whines when she talks to your character and that every time she talks to the other NPC's she doesn't whine as much so therefore she isn't a whiner.
I'm sorry but even if you are complaining about something that is completely awful, like you found a severed finger in your minestrone soup, you are still complaining. To say she's not whining when she whines about getting her wings cut off, because getting your wings cut off really sucks for her, doesn't change the fact she was whining. You might have more tolerance for it, I don't. That's why my vote fell on Quayle.
My vote fell for Aerie because all the things said against her are either entirely false or are just as true for plenty of other characters who are allowed to get away with it.
Verb
1. Give or make a long, high-pitched complaining cry or sound.
2. Complain in a feeble or petulant way.
Aeries does both of these things. The definition has no room for whether or not you think it is justified.
Actually the easiest way not to hear her whining is to not take her along. I typically don't. Quayle foreva.
You enjoy arguing for the sake of it, huh? The opinion that Aerie whines too much is a popular one amongst many players of BG and has been for YEARS and you're honestly trying to tell me that she doesn't whine at all? Not that you don't mind it if she whines because you feel she is somehow justified, or it is endearing to you because it's the type of character trait you enjoy in a woman, but that it is a FACT that she doesn't do it? You're being ridiculous.
The occasional whining doesn't really bother me. The insistence of going on their questline does, but Minsc and Jaheira do the same.
Quayle: heh, a gnome sitting on the road when i approach Baldur's Gate with a full party. No chance, gnome.
It seems YOU are the one who enjoys arguing for the sake of it, and claims it is 'ridiculous' that people don't accept your view on Aerie. Your tone was never particularly polite, but now it has descended into down-right rudeness and condescension. If you repeatedly slam a character many players have grown to love in their BG 2 experience, you should expect some resistance. Live with it, many of us love Aerie, we think her 'high-pitched' voice is sweet, her traumatic history deserves sympathy and her inner-strength and fortitude marks her out as somebody very special, if she was a real person.
Courage is not the ability to pretend you are an uncaring badass, it's the ability to face your fears and press on through them. I believe Aerie demonstrates that in abundance, so no, I do not think she is 'weak' in the slightest.
Your attitude makes me wonder if you simply lack empathy. I hope it's not how you treat people in real life.
Yes, these arguments have gone on for years and inevitably get to the point where people determined not to like Aerie increasingly clutch at straws and end up saying things like 'oh, she says look at the start of a sentence... hate that'. It's fine not to like a character, although I don't understand why it's so important to some people and why they go to such great lengths and even just make up stuff in their attempts to justify it.
Sorry that my opinion on a fictional video game character shook your faith in my empathy to the core. And yes this is how I "treat people in real life" too, when I don't agree with them on something I tell them why. Or did you mean how I'm treating Aerie? I'm not treating her in any way because she is a fictional character, I'm talking about the reasons why I do not enjoy her as a character... is that treating her badly? I hope I didn't hurt her non-existant feelings. But in all seriousness no, I don't hang around with people who whine all the time in real life either. If that makes me "cold hearted" because I don't like to listen to peoples problems over and over again then so be it I suppose.
@Coutelier It doesn't matter if the "complaint is feeble" or not! It is the manner in which you complain. If someone came into a grocery store and demanded he have the money for his banana's returned because there were too many stickers on them but did it in a gruff demanding voice that captured everyones attention and made his point with a bullet it wouldn't be whining. It is a feeble complaint, to be sure, but the manner in which it was delivered was not whining. You clearly don't understand what the definition of the word means even after having read it and having me explain it to you at least once so I see there's really no point in arguing the matter with you. Your opinion on whether someone whines or not when you don't know what whining is seems irrelevent.
A tip though; if you don't like Aerie, say it's because of the nasty things she says about Khalid. That at least definitely does happen and no one can dispute it. I would point out that Viconia does it well, and not just in the romantic catfights like Aerie does, but remarks casually outside them as well. It's obviously just far more shocking when Aerie does it because it's very unusual behavior for her, and you probably shouldn't read too much into things people say when they're depressed and angry anyway. But it does happen.
"I've shown her behavior doesn't exactly match either."
"And having listened a lot to the sound sets I'd say Imoen's voice is higher." That doesn't show anything, that's your opinion. And this disproves nothing, at best all it means is that when Imoen complains she whines as well... good thing she doesn't complain constantly like Aerie.
"Aerie is also a very strong willed character; more determined and more aggressive even than Nalia or even Imoen." Has nothing to do with the way she complains, making her a whiner... unless you own the as of yet unnamed dictionary you possess that seems to have a different definition than every other dictionary.
Tip noted but I think I'll continue to dislike her for my own reasons.
And as earlier established, Aerie doesn't constantly complain. She never discusses her wings with any other NPC, and only talks about it to the PC if she trusts and has feelings for them, and then she comes to terms with her feelings and stops. Whining - adjective/noun.
1. A long, high, sad sound.
2. Making repeated, especially trivial, complaints.
Yes, I can copy and paste as well. As you wish. I was just trying to help, as your reasons are nonsense.
Very good attempt by the lass. But she doesn't have the right facial structure to pull it off convincingly. I am not fooled by the doppleganger!
1. A long, high, sad sound.
2. Making repeated, especially trivial, complaints.
Yes, I can copy and paste as well. As you wish. I was just trying to help, as your reasons are nonsense.
Yeah, cool. Blah Blah, are we done yet?
The problem is that we need to rush the game with Aerie and finish it before she get pregnant, cos dude, if that chick separate later from main char and ask alimony and pointment of goods she's going to broke my main char, gonna need to sell the whole equipments to keep it up!
What?