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Aerie Vs Quayle

MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
edited August 2013 in Archive (General Discussion)
So Mage/Cleric seems to be a pretty popular combination around here. I'm not a huge fan of it myself but that's not what this thread is about. What I'm wondering is if, assuming they were both in the same game, people would prefer Aerie or Quayle as an NPC. Quayle is a Specialist mage, and can use Invisibility as a special ability, but his stats are unbelievably awful. 11 CON is bad, and 10 WIS on a Cleric is utterly laughable. Aerie has a lower CON, certainly, but her WIS is significantly better.


So, which would you prefer? The Specialist Mage who's a terrible cleric? Or the straight mage who's a passable cleric?
  1. Aerie Vs Quayle130 votes
    1. Aerie
      86.92%
    2. Quayle
      13.08%
«134

Comments

  • FredjoFredjo Member Posts: 477
    Quayle is an old geezer and I am a gerontophobic adventurer.
  • Permidion_StarkPermidion_Stark Member Posts: 4,861
    I find both of them pretty annoying. But if I had to have one I guess it would be Aerie.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582
    Aerie without doubt IMO.

    Quayle is actually one of the most underrated NPCs in BG1 IMO, but he's still outdone by Aerie, who is basically an improved version of him. On top of that, he has one of the most annoying personalities in BG1, whereas Aerie is much more likable, even pitiable IMO.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited August 2013
    Aerie has slightly better strength (10 vs 8) but Quayle gets a lot more spells. Aerie gets 2 more second level priest spells and 2 more first level priest spells over Quayle, but Quayle would get 1 more mage spell for every level. Plus he gets +3 shorty saves vs spells/wands. Plus as the OP noted he gets invisibility as a special ability.

    Edit: I guess Aerie can get necromancy spells. So Quayle definitely loses out in that respect but I think overall the gains he gets make him the character I prefer.
    Post edited by elminster on
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Dunno why, but somehow this thread makes me want to encounter a winged gnome NPC in BG2:EE.
  • blackchimesblackchimes Member Posts: 323
    Heh, love the juxtaposition between the two above posts, one going purely for the character/RP and the other just coldly analyzing the stats and mechanics. Awesome.
  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582
    lunar said:



    Quayle on the other hand is more of a comic relief, ...

    ...without the comedy. ;-)

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,582
    Aerie is one of the NPCs that I feel the strongest "connection" to, from the moment I first hear her desperate cries for help while trapped in another form. Once I free her and we kill the bad guy together, I have always felt both gratitude and a sense of responsibility toward her. I usually refuse to allow Viconia in my party simply because I can't stand someone bullying Aerie the way she does. And out of all the NPCs, she's probably the one I have the most difficult time parting with.

    Aerie is one of the best developed personalities in BG2 IMO. She's naive without being foolish, innocent without being cowardly - and her voice actress captures those qualities to a tee. She doesn't "whine" the way Skie whines. She's actually a brave character who is trouble by her haunted past (which makes her an even more interesting character IMO).

    Aside from that, she's also a damn useful party member! What I love most is that she can wear the Robe of Vecna and decrease both her cleric and mage spellcasting times.
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  • OneAngryMushroomOneAngryMushroom Member Posts: 564
    As much as Aerie annoys me I have to admit she is an amazing back lines caster, and if she got some necessary protection spells she's going to annihilate Quayle
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    edited August 2013
    I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?

    Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.

    That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.

    OH DEAR!
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    GoodSteve said:


    Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.

    That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.

    OH DEAR!

    I'm sorry but that analogy just does not work. I'm gonna use a painful (as a guy) counter-analogy to illustrate my point. All men have something between our legs that women don't have. If we lost them as a result of a violent assault, we can still function perfectly fine in most situations, but it would be pretty damn traumatic, not to mention years of being abused as a slave.

    Back to Aerie, her whining is just a phase, a few conversations. After which she's all sweetness and courage. She opens up to Charname because she trusts him, and thus confides in him. It's not like she's whining to everybody all the time. If you tell her something along the lines of 'now is not the right time' or something meaner, she shuts up because she realises Charname will not/does not want to hear out her problems all the time.
  • MathmickMathmick Member Posts: 326
    The easiest thing for me about picking Aerie is that you actually have her become powerful later on, while that never happens to Quayle because he's not designated for being worthy of passing 161000XP.

    Other reasons: Better stats, less grating personality.
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  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    don't really like either, but I wanted to see the results :)
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    Heindrich1988 said:

    GoodSteve said:


    Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.

    That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.

    OH DEAR!

    I'm sorry but that analogy just does not work. I'm gonna use a painful (as a guy) counter-analogy to illustrate my point. All men have something between our legs that women don't have. If we lost them as a result of a violent assault, we can still function perfectly fine in most situations, but it would be pretty damn traumatic, not to mention years of being abused as a slave.

    Back to Aerie, her whining is just a phase, a few conversations. After which she's all sweetness and courage. She opens up to Charname because she trusts him, and thus confides in him. It's not like she's whining to everybody all the time. If you tell her something along the lines of 'now is not the right time' or something meaner, she shuts up because she realises Charname will not/does not want to hear out her problems all the time.
    No, that's not exactly accurate. In order for your example to be the same as what happened to Aerie the man in question would have his "manhood" removed and be forced to live with others who also do not have a manhood, and frankly never did. Aerie no longer lives amongst the Avariel, she lives with humans and dwarves and gnomes and other people who cannot fly. It might be more understandable if she still lived amongst her people and was constantly reminded that everyone but her can fly. That is not the case. It's like someone who used to be a millionaire but lost most of their money and is now only middle class. They hang around with all their middle class buddies constantly talking about how middle class sucks and it used to be soooo much better when he had 15 monkey butlers.

    As for being able to silence her when she starts to prattle on and on abot her wings, yeah that's an option. But, do you really want to hang around with someone who constantly whines everytime they talk to you unless you tell them to shut up? I don't... therefore, I picked Quayle.
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  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    this is like so easy

    elven female mage also the best female portrait
  • zur312zur312 Member Posts: 1,366
    i would rather have magic than money :(
  • GoodSteveGoodSteve Member Posts: 607
    lunar said:

    GoodSteve said:

    I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?

    Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.

    That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.

    OH DEAR!

    I don't think Aerie's wings count as someone else's 'super cool extra third arm'. Wings are the defining characteristic of Avariel, aka winged elves. From the moment they are born, they get used to them, they live in far away, hard to reach places and fly all day among the clouds and mountain tops. It's what defines them as a race.

    If you want to make a real life analogy, think of a very healthy, strong and rich lady who enjoys jogging and sprinting and even has won a few contests, maybe she is a well known athlete in that area and is proud of her strong, agile legs. One day she takes on a trip to a poor, far-away land. There she sees a sick, poor child being beaten by evil people. She could just walk on, but she despises cruelty and confronts the child's attackers, and child escapes. But the evil people capture her, take her away, and abuse and use her as a slave for years. They torture, humiliate and eventually mutiliate her so much that her legs become necrotic and they saw them off cruelly. When finally she is rescued from their captors, she is broken:years of torture and abuse had forever left a mark, once she could walk and run freely, she now is confined to a wheel-chair.

    Yet what does this lady do? She still wishes to use her power and money to further help other poor people. (Money and power=magical skills in Aerie's case) She does not become hateful, or cynical. She never gives up trying to do the right thing. She sure has some depressed moments, and at times questions her choice and reminiscens the past where she could freely walk and run as fast as the wind, that made her special and people admired her, that's all gone and will never come back. But come on, she is only human, I think it is perfectly natural to struggle when something that terrible happens.

    Yeah that's what Aerie is like to me. She is awesome.
    Much like the other example, this really only works if this rich woman is then forced to live amongst people who also have no legs. Not only do they not have any legs, but they've never known what having legs is like. The very idea of it is strange, magical and alluring to them. Then this rich old lady lives with them and constantly complains that things were soo much better when she had legs. Not having legs is the worst thing that could possibly have befallen her and she can't comprehend how anyone can be happy not having legs.

    Sure, Aerie doesn't get down about it. She is still a good person, but she constantly whines about how much better things were for her before instead of trying to move on. She dwells on the past horrors that happened to her and never lets anyone forget what a better life she used to have before she met all of you. While inherently good it makes for a personality I would rather not be around. Kind of a debbie downer, no? I'm not trivializing what happened to Aerie, certainly having your wings sawed off would suck, but how many damn times do I have to hear about it? As many times as she has dialogues in the game? Yeah, no thanks.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi Member Posts: 2,869
    edited August 2013
    Aerie's whining doesn't bother me at all, mostly because I have a kill-on-sight policy for Pink Ogres.


    Hard choice all the same though.....it's like asking a person to choose between the electric chair and a gas chamber. You're going to die a horrible death regardless.
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    edited August 2013
    GoodSteve said:

    lunar said:

    GoodSteve said:

    I prefer Quayle because I like his personality much more than Aerie. Aerie is a whiner, despite what a lot of people seem to think. Imagine you knew someone who had an extra arm that let them do all kinds of cool stuff that no one else you knew could do. He could juggle 50% more balls than the average juggler, take a drink of his Mountain Dew without having to put down the Xbox controller, or be able to hold down someone with two arms AND still give them a wet willy. Pretty sweet right?

    Ok, now imagine that person lost that third arm. Such a tragedy, truly it is. Now imagine that every time you saw that friend, even MANY YEARS after he lost his super cool third arm, he always had to say to you "Man, I wish I still had my third arm, though.... that thing was freakin' badass!" or "Sure, I'd love to go see the new Tom Selleck movie with you... but I wish I still had my third arm," or "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again... it used to be much easier to hose people down when I had my third arm though..." How annoying do you think this would get? At what point would you consider this friend a whiner? 3 years after? 4? I'm sure you definately would... and if you didn't I'm still sure you wouldn't enjoy hanging around with that person.

    That is Aerie in a nut shell for me.

    OH DEAR!

    I don't think Aerie's wings count as someone else's 'super cool extra third arm'. Wings are the defining characteristic of Avariel, aka winged elves. From the moment they are born, they get used to them, they live in far away, hard to reach places and fly all day among the clouds and mountain tops. It's what defines them as a race.

    If you want to make a real life analogy, think of a very healthy, strong and rich lady who enjoys jogging and sprinting and even has won a few contests, maybe she is a well known athlete in that area and is proud of her strong, agile legs. One day she takes on a trip to a poor, far-away land. There she sees a sick, poor child being beaten by evil people. She could just walk on, but she despises cruelty and confronts the child's attackers, and child escapes. But the evil people capture her, take her away, and abuse and use her as a slave for years. They torture, humiliate and eventually mutiliate her so much that her legs become necrotic and they saw them off cruelly. When finally she is rescued from their captors, she is broken:years of torture and abuse had forever left a mark, once she could walk and run freely, she now is confined to a wheel-chair.

    Yet what does this lady do? She still wishes to use her power and money to further help other poor people. (Money and power=magical skills in Aerie's case) She does not become hateful, or cynical. She never gives up trying to do the right thing. She sure has some depressed moments, and at times questions her choice and reminiscens the past where she could freely walk and run as fast as the wind, that made her special and people admired her, that's all gone and will never come back. But come on, she is only human, I think it is perfectly natural to struggle when something that terrible happens.

    Yeah that's what Aerie is like to me. She is awesome.
    Much like the other example, this really only works if this rich woman is then forced to live amongst people who also have no legs. Not only do they not have any legs, but they've never known what having legs is like. The very idea of it is strange, magical and alluring to them. Then this rich old lady lives with them and constantly complains that things were soo much better when she had legs. Not having legs is the worst thing that could possibly have befallen her and she can't comprehend how anyone can be happy not having legs.

    Sure, Aerie doesn't get down about it. She is still a good person, but she constantly whines about how much better things were for her before instead of trying to move on. She dwells on the past horrors that happened to her and never lets anyone forget what a better life she used to have before she met all of you. While inherently good it makes for a personality I would rather not be around. Kind of a debbie downer, no? I'm not trivializing what happened to Aerie, certainly having your wings sawed off would suck, but how many damn times do I have to hear about it? As many times as she has dialogues in the game? Yeah, no thanks.
    You don't have to hear about it at all, even if you have her in your party. She only talks about it if you romance her, so she has to have some level of trust toward the PC. Every dialogue she initiates with another NPC is always her asking questions about them. The idea that she is constantly whining and complaining about these things is just, well, not true. An actual whiner is someone like Skie who constantly complains about breaking a nail and tiny trivial things like that. Not someone like Aerie who occasionally complains about a really gigantic thing that happened. Most of the time she is very quiet about it and shows that she is very interested and concerned about the other characters around her. But staying quiet and just burying things deep down isn't actually moving on at all; it just leads to far more anxiety and stress in the long run, and moving on is what she wants. It's why she joins the party in the first place (well, one reason).

    Losing her wings does of course have far wider implications than just not being able to fly, and in any case that's actually just the culmination of a long period of abuse. Younger Aerie, when she had her wings, wouldn't have thought of herself as being that special because of course every other avariel would have had them as well. But losing her wings is taking away her whole identity as an avariel, and of course it means she can longer go home and be with her family and people again and have things be like they were before she was captured, tortured, broken and humiliated. Once she's gotten things off her chest, she creates a new identity for herself; being a wingless winged elf is part of it, and something I imagine she will later just joke about.
    Post edited by Coutelier on
  • NymMoondownNymMoondown Member Posts: 219
    No doubts.
    She looks like my perfect girl type, and I love her behavior, and her romance. There is a strong contrast between her gothic character and her fairy appearance.
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    I don't know how I didn't notice this sooner... but there is a huge parallel between Aerie and Daenerys Targaryen from Game of Thrones.

    Everyone knows Aerie's story, so no point repeating, but Dany starts off as the abused sister of Aerys Targaryen, gets sold off to Khal Drogo like property, and is initially treated more or less like a slave.

    With time she grows stronger, and despite the suffering she's been through, she retains her compassion for others and embarks on a great crusade against slavery on Essos. Of course ingame Aerie urges Charname to help pretty much every unfortunate soul we come across, and has a particular sensitivity to slavery.

    Now I just need to find a nice 'Baldurised' Daenarys portrait :D
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    i prefer quayle because (before baeloth), he was the second best caster in BG due to fact that with multi-class capping in BG he only lost a couple of cleric or mage spells compared to straight cleric or mages (quayle will cap as a 7/7 c/i, missing out on 2 mage levels and 1 cleric level)

    aerie's impact is less, as i don't think she's the next best (or even third best) caster in SoA, because with the multi xp cap, she misses out on more levels. (aerie caps in SoA as a 14/15 m/c, missing out on 3 mage levels and 6 cleric levels)

    disclaimer: i've not played to the SoA cap for years, so my maths might be off on those levels
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