A brief response to anger at and criticism of BGEE and BG2EE
LiamEsler
Member Posts: 1,859
To put this in context, I was responding in part to @Shandyr, who made a very nice post I'll quote part of here:
Shandyr said:
And even worse yet they have to answer in a friendly manner like this:Because if they treated you the same way you treat them it would shine a very bad light on the company.Kaeloree said:I'm just glad we've dealt with pretty much all of your issues up there, @Wraith_Sarevok. I hope you enjoy the game when it comes out.
I wonder what people would be more shocked about: Someone addressing the guys at Overhaul the way you do or if in fact someone from Overhaul would address you the same way you address them.
My response:
Kaeloree said:
I don't have to answer politely, but I do, and that's because I totally understand.
There is literally no accusation or criticism that can be levelled at us we have not already levelled at ourselves.
Sure, it's not nice to read that somebody is upset because of something you've poured your blood, sweat and tears into, but at the end of the day, people are upset because they are passionate about Baldur's Gate, for the most part. And that is pretty awesome. You know what? We are too. I'd go so far as to say probably even more than most.
I'd like to think we can address the issues with BGEE. We've done a lot towards that already. I'd like to think we've addressed them in BG2EE.
I genuinely, honestly hope @Wraith_Sarevok enjoys BG2EE. I've personally spent a lot of time and care on it. So has the rest of our fantastic team, the majority of whom are modders and from the community. I'm really proud of what we've done. I hope it deals with the issues he has, and if it doesn't, I hope he lets us know how we can make it better.
I'm sorry that BGEE has disappointed you, man. I hope we can do better in the future. And I hope you'll give BG2EE a shot and tell us what you think, whether you enjoy it or not.
Comments
I find that BGEE is too convenient to play and I request you reverted to a format where I would have to install fan made patches in just the right order as to not to mess up the game. Also, since I'm on a mac, added inconvenience like needing a wrapper (or some other kind of software) to play the game would just improve my overall experience.
I like loading screens that really just in the way of actually playing the game. So if you could put those back in that would be great.
I dislike how the manuals and in-game descriptions are far more accurate now. I demand a manual and in-game descriptions that get many basic things wrong like the numbers of rounds spells last, their casting time, their range, and other spell effects.
Finally, I like how random NPC's used to have random characteristics (weird alignments, classes, or races). Like how Destus Gern (a human) was labelled mechanically as a Kobold.
A lot of people on these forums have already pre-ordered it, but not including myself. I'm going to be one of those BG veterans who will wait for the reviews (because of Black Pits 2). There are a lot of players who pre-ordered the game, but there are also quite a few of us who hasn't yet because we want to see how much of an enhancement BG2:EE received (you'll see them on other forums outside this site). And a extreme few who won't buy because of their own reasons.
With that being said, we're all fans of BG series, and we DO support your work, as long as it's worth supporting. I do thank you guys for the hard work put in so far. I really wish for BG2:EE to be a great game so I can choose to support you guys!
Even if the new NPC turns out to be complete trash, nobody's forcing you to take her.
And there will be bugs at the release, sure. They will also be fixed in a patch.
I'm usually wholly opposed to preordering(because it's like buying a pair of shoes without trying them on first) but in the case of EE? You have all the information you'll ever need to make an informed purchase already.
Also, you said it yourself @blackchimes: it's the same story, characters, gameplay, etc. Not everyone is convinced (yet!) that the enhancements justify the switch. Once the reviews are in then they can make an informed decision.
I don't know if I will preoder BG2:EE, maybe I will wait and see if I like the reviews of BG2:EE and the changes they make.
Don't get me wrong, I really hope that BG2:EE will be awesome so that I can then relive old BG2 moments but if the game gets 'destroyed' by reviews/players that preordered it (which I don't believe but you know...) why shouldn't I just stick with the good old awesome BG2+mods?
Many people preordered BG2:EE because they love BG2/trust Overhaul/don't have BG2 but there are some players who are waiting because they want to see more than they got in the BG-->BG:EE upgrade or just want to start with a really bugfree BG2.
I personally need more Informations before I can decide if i preorder the game or not.
You're trying to make the argument that even if the new stuff is crap, it's still an addition, so it's worth getting. That would be a valid argument IF BG2:EE would let you be completely compatible with all existing fan-made mods / ascension from the very start. But we know it won't, look at BG1:EE. You have to decide whether to pay money to play a game with new mods from the developers, or decide to not pay money and enjoy the other mods that the fan community have poured their hard work into over the last decade.
There are some great fan made mods out there right now....I would have to look into how much of an "enhancement" and new content has been added to the new game to make the decision to dish out money for (probably more buggy game) + (new content) vs. existing content that's also great
Based on what they delivered us with BG:EE, do you really think that BG2:EE will be "bug free" ?
More than the original game + last patches + fan fixes ?
What I mean by the long haul is the state BGEE and BG2EE will be in once the community's had the chance to adapt fully to them. At that time, rather than a BG series that's unsupported, limited modding-wise and in need of fixpacks; we'll have a BGEE series that is alive, supported, evolving and becoming ever more mod friendly. To me, that's the entire point.
For new players, the choice they'll mostly look at is BG2ee v. out-of-the-box-original-BG2. And on that comparison, the Enhanced Editions are going to be hands-down winners - unfixed original BG1 and BG2 are still buggy, graphically outmoded, and rough-looking by modern standards, whereas BGee is much better than that (although admittedly it was too buggy when first released).
I'm confident that BG2ee will get off to a smoother start than BGee, because many of the fixes which have sorted out problems in BGee will already be built into BG2ee before we see it.
So ... I've therefore already pre-ordered. I recommend others to support the project by doing likewise.
These are my biggest gripes by far, but in any case not show-stoppers or endorsement of the views espoused by the likes of Wraith_Sarevok. The source code is gone, the source art is gone, so at the end of the day your options were limited, and the best that can be done has been done.
@Gallowglass: I'm sorry, I don't take your point at all. New players are constantly directed to mods and fixpacks when it comes to the original BG2 - GOG has a whole support forum with recommendations and the like. Any mention of BG2 in the last year has included at least cursory gestures to popular mods. So it's not like anyone who buys BG2 today won't be aware of those materials.
@Shin: And...? They weren't lying, that content is out there and freely available to anyone. IMO, that's always been the biggest problem with the EE - marketing the release of a game primarily by highlighting technical improvements isn't really a winning strategy, and yet contractual restrictions have prevented Beamdog from actually improving existing story content (which would have justified the moniker of "Enhanced Edition" far more than claiming to fix 400 bugs in the original game while introducing 400 more).
Any technical argument I'd like to make concerning bugs or improvements would require me to break my NDA so I just won't
From a monetary point of view it's obvious that if you wait you can get it cheaper. So every person should decide if they want to wait to save a few dollars or if they want the game when it's released.
So yes - if the idea of not having to bother with the fixpacks at launch day is all you're after and the future of the series doesn't really matter to you, I'd agree it'd be a wise move to just go with the GOG.com edition and use the fixes+mods.
Seriously, I don't entirely agree that from "a monetary point of view it's obvious". If you think only of the games market, then sure, that's true ... but in most other fields of human endeavour, stumping up my money well in advance of delivery would earn me a discount, not cost me a premium!
But heck, I don't mind. It's only a few dollars, and I want the project to be a success, so I'm happy to contribute a little cash.
Applying the BG2 FixPack was one of the first things we did when we started on BG2:EE. So if you're looking for a bug-free experience, BG2EE is going to be better than Vanilla+FixPack. Here is the post where CamDawg revealed that bit of information.