Specialist Mages...
Edwin_Odesseiron
Member Posts: 226
... Should have special abilities for their school of specialization. Kind of like the cleric kits have special abilities.
Just throwing out some ideas:
An Abjurer could have some kind of stoneskin-type ability (because I always found it ridiculous that an ABJURER could not cast arguably the most powerful defensive spell in the game: Stoneskin.)
A conjurer could summon a creature once a day.
A diviner could ID an item once per day.
An enchanter could charm person once per day.
(These skills would get an extra cast per day every 5 levels, for example)
And so on.
Alternatively, new, specific skills do not even have to be made for them. Instead, just make certain wizard spells available as special abilities (with advancements as they grow). For example, a Necromancer gets the special ability: Larloch's minor drain at level 1. Then gets Vampiric touch at level 5. Then Skull Trap at level 10. And so on, gaining more powerful, specilization-specific abilities as the game goes on. An invoker could get magic missile at level 1, Aganazzars Scorcher at level 5, Fireball at level 10, something else at level 15, 20, 25, 30 etc.
Nothing game breaking, nothing overly-powerful, but enough to ascertain that the mage is defined by his school, defined by what he CAN cast, instead of being defined by what he CAN'T (as is the case now.)
To add further flavour, at each spell level, at least 1 spell of the specialized school must be memorized, and spells of the opposing school can't be cast AT ALL (not via scroll, nothing.)
These changes would make the mages feel much more specialized. People could say "I love the Enchanter because he CAN do the following...." instead of "I hate the Enchanter because he CAN'T cast Invocation spells."
Specialist mages are based on what they can't do, not what they can. Which, needless to say, is stupid.
Just throwing out some ideas:
An Abjurer could have some kind of stoneskin-type ability (because I always found it ridiculous that an ABJURER could not cast arguably the most powerful defensive spell in the game: Stoneskin.)
A conjurer could summon a creature once a day.
A diviner could ID an item once per day.
An enchanter could charm person once per day.
(These skills would get an extra cast per day every 5 levels, for example)
And so on.
Alternatively, new, specific skills do not even have to be made for them. Instead, just make certain wizard spells available as special abilities (with advancements as they grow). For example, a Necromancer gets the special ability: Larloch's minor drain at level 1. Then gets Vampiric touch at level 5. Then Skull Trap at level 10. And so on, gaining more powerful, specilization-specific abilities as the game goes on. An invoker could get magic missile at level 1, Aganazzars Scorcher at level 5, Fireball at level 10, something else at level 15, 20, 25, 30 etc.
Nothing game breaking, nothing overly-powerful, but enough to ascertain that the mage is defined by his school, defined by what he CAN cast, instead of being defined by what he CAN'T (as is the case now.)
To add further flavour, at each spell level, at least 1 spell of the specialized school must be memorized, and spells of the opposing school can't be cast AT ALL (not via scroll, nothing.)
These changes would make the mages feel much more specialized. People could say "I love the Enchanter because he CAN do the following...." instead of "I hate the Enchanter because he CAN'T cast Invocation spells."
Specialist mages are based on what they can't do, not what they can. Which, needless to say, is stupid.
Post edited by Dee on
3
Comments
There's always the generic mage for all spells. Playing a kit is just more fun for RP reasons.
Of course it's annoying there are some spells they can't learn depending on their school. And it seems to be important ones no matter your choice.
Saying that it will make anyone think about their choice especially when you have planned who to bring along.
"Great none in the party can identify the nice things we found"
Generic: All specialised mages lose one spell slot, which is replaced by a sorcerer type mechanism where you can any cast any one spell of your specialism. So at level an Invoker can cast any one spell (except Enchantment of course) and one spell that must either be MM, Chromatic Orb or Shield. And specialised mages have all their school's spells scribed in their book at level 1, without the option to remove them.
Specific
Abjurer:
Level 1: Special ability
-1 AC, +1 bonus to saves for 1 turn
Level 9: Passive ability
Abjuration spells cast at twice their level, abjuration effects last twice as long
Transmuter:
Level 1: Special ability
Shapeshift wolf
Level 9: Passive ability
The level 5 spell Polymorph self has extra forms available
Illusionist:
Level 1: Special ability
Immunity divination spell
Level 9: Passive ability
Improved Invisibility resets on the illusionist once per 5 turns
Necromancer:
Level 1: Special ability
Ghoul immunities for 3 rounds
Level 9: Passive ability
Enemies below level 9 must make save vs death or flee in fear. This is permanently centred on the Necromancer
Conjurer:
Level 1: Special ability
Summon a creature
Level 9: Passive ability
Summons always summon an extra creature
Diviner:
Level 1: Special ability
Remote strike (the diviner can cast any memorised spell at any single target anywhere on the map with unlimited range)
Level 9: Passive ability
Knowing the minds of his enemies keeps the Diviner a step ahead. -1 to spellcasting time
Invoker:
Level 1: Special ability
Reduce Magic Damage by 10% in a single target for 1 turn
Level 9: Passive ability
Evocation spells are more powerful. +1 die roll to spells like fireball and lightning bolt, MM gets an missile etc.
Enchanter:
Level 1: Special ability
Immunity to charm/domination/confusion for 1 turn
Level 9: Passive ability
Enemies must make their saves vs enchantment spells with a -4 penalty
None of those seem massively overpowered and they could be implemented in enemy mages too
Although, some other suggestions I like. Some good ideas, there.
They should work on doing this. Specialist mages have been overlooked for too long! Amend!
All they do is take away all available kit slots, which could be utilized more efficiently by the *real* wizard kits: the Academician, Anagakok, Militant Wizard, Mystic, Patrician, Peasant Wizard, Savage Wizard, Witch or the Wu Jen, amongst others.
That aside, wouldn't this thread make more sense in Feature Requests?
Abjurer: Resistance to Energy
Once per day, an abjurer an create a mystical shield that grants herself or any one creature that she touches limited protection against a chosen energy type (acid, cold, electricity, or fire). The affected creature gains resistance equal 20% + 5% per 5 caster levels (up to a maximum of 50% at 30th level). Once activated, the protection lasts for 1 turn.
Conjurer: Summon Minions
Once per day, a conjurer can summon creatures to serve him, as per the monster summoning spells. It starts weaker that Monster Summoning I (since the ability starts at 1st level), but scales with level, summoning more and/or stronger creatures.
Diviner: Bardic Lore
A diviner has a Lore score equal to a Bard of the same level. Alternative: Once per day Wizard Eye?
Enchanter: Universal Charm
Once per day, an enchanter can cast an enhanced version of Charm Person spell. At 1st level, it basically functions as Charm Person. At 4th level, this is extended to include animals, as per the druid Charm Person or Mammal spell. At 7th level, it extends to giants and monsters as well. Mindless creatures (constructs, oozes, undead) and those immune to charm are also immune to this effect.
Evoker: Overcome Resistance
An evoker can temporarily lower a target's resistance to one of magical fire, magical cold, or magic damage (note, not general magic resistance; this is about letting the evoker hit a target with damaging spells). The resistance is lowered by 10% + 5% per 5 caster levels (up to a maximum of 40% at 30th level). The lowered resistance last a short time (~1 round, just long enough for the evoker to hit the target with a spell). An evoker may use this ability one time per day, plus one additional time per day for every five levels attained (2/day at 5th, 3/day at 10th, and so forth).
Illusionist: Detect Illusion
Once per day, an illusionist can activate an ability to see through the illusions of his/her enemies. This ability is similar to the True Sight spell, but the maximum level of the illusion affected scales with the illusionist (i.e., a 1st level illusionist can't detect a Simulacrum).
Necromancer: Skeleton Minion
Once per day, a necromancer can summon an undead minion (a human warrior skeleton). The minion lasts for up to 8 hours, as per the animate dead spell. At 1st level, the skeleton summoned is completely typical (1 HD), but it gains power as the necromancer gains levels.
Transmuter: Enhance Attribute
Once per day, a transmuter can add an enhancement bonus to any one of his ability scores. This bonus lasts for 1 turn. The bonus begins at +2 at 1st level, and increases by +1 for every 5 levels of the caster to a maximum of +6 at 20th level.
Complete book of mages added extra abilities at 17 and 20 for most specialists. Though it was mostly just another +1 save/-1 save. For a total of +3/-3.
Illusionists, Abjurers, and Diviners got other stuff though.
Also, I think they should get a +2 to save vs. spells from their specialized school.
(In 2nd edition, divination is split into 2 schools, lesser (4th and under, absolutely required for a mage to function) and greater (5th+, 3 total spells by the core book), and PnP Conjurers only lose greater divination and all of evocation. And in 3rd (aside from NWN, which used BG2's opposed school list), divination could never be chosen as an opposed school at all.)
If they were going to only pick 1 opposed school, they should've went with evocation, since that's the school conjuration loses the most of (aka, all of it). (in Pnp, every specialist except the diviner loses at least 2 schools, Illusion losing 3 due to being the most powerful school).
Wow, I love that idea. I had something similar in mind few months back, but in a more simplistic form.
The idea was to make wisdom to give both priest and mages more spell casts per day, and have intelligence modify the character's caster level scaling component. (+1 levels per 2 intelligence above 14).
As it stands, there's no real gameplay benefit of having a priest/druid with high intelligence, or a mage/bard/sorc with high wisdom. And the way intelligence works is just not very good design to begin with. :P
So the general idea behind this kind of desing is to make both stats useful for all of the classes/kits that have access to spellbooks both wizardly and priestly. Like a paladin or a ranger would benefit from high intelligence through being able to cast their spells at a higher caster level (a lvl8 paladin with 20 intelligence would cast AoF as if he was a lvl 11 paladin).
And for specialist mages, their bonus would've been just a flat +2 caster level bonus to the spells of their selected school. (A lvl 1 evoker with 14 intellect would cast evocation spells as if he was a lvl3 mage).
I think I asked Kaeloree if this was possible, and the reply was that it wasn't.
For example, we have:
Mage (Standard spellcaster)
Necromancer (standard spellcaster + ability to raise dead (skeletons arise from dead corpses to help you fight) + ability to curse enemies)
Elder magick mage (weird spell bonuses, + more creative ideas)
Elemental mage (Standard spellcaster, fire / ice / lightning spells do 40% more damage, can cast a "Storm" spell at high levels, etc)
They're kind of like a specialist, but instead of losing a school, they lose access to spells of the opposed element, and a suffer a massive penalty for learning non-elemental spells (except divination).
Gains +2 bonus/penalty vs/to spells of their element.
And a 25% bonus when learning spells of that element.
They gain a 15% bonus when learning other elemental spells. But suffer a huge -30% penalty for learning non-elemental spells (except Divination, which has no bonus or penalty). And can't learn spells of their opposed element at all.
Gains 1 extra slot per level, but must be used for elemental spells (does not have to be of their element).
Fire <---> Water, Air <----> Earth (Acid)
Once per day they can raise their caster level by 1d4+1 that affects the next spell they cast of their element.
At 15+, when summoning an elemental of their element, the mage are no longer has to battle-wills, but still has a 5% chance of going berserk.
At 20+, Elementals of their element no longer have a chance of going berserk.
Possible changes for BG. Make special versions of each elemental summoning spells for each elemental summoning (including the missing water elementals), that the elementalist of the proper element automatically knows when starting a new game (and cannot learn the normal version of it).
Only gets spell-capacity and elemental summoning/Greater elemental summoning HLA (only summons elementals of their chosen element). Fire mages get Dragon's breath instead of elemental summoning.
(Yes, they are likely to believe anything I tell them, the fools.)
And @Edwin_Odesseiron, you need to be a bit more respectful of other people's opinions. Yes, even when they disagree with you.
Secondly, I don't mind others disagreeing with me. In fact, I welcome intelligent thought and conversation. What I don't like is smart-assery that doesn't contribute to the thread (see first response to my OP). Perhaps you should address that instead of rebuking me for wanting a constructive discussion.
The thread belongs in Feature Requests because it's a feature request. I can guarantee you that the development team at least looks at all of the threads here, so if your goal is to get something implemented, Feature Requests is a much better place to post it.