So the answer it seems is "no", Blackguard are just Paladins without access to the one thing that makes paladins good in BG2. If this were NWN 2 then I would have a different opinion entirely though.
That makes the assumption they will be keeping the Unholy Reaver with exactly the same stats it had in the Non-EE version. Since Blackguards didn't exist in that version at least some editing of the weapon needs to happen. And with both Blackguards and Dorn figuring prominently in the EE, it would be a missed opportunity if they didn't have add an upgrade option just like Carsomyr.
Well yeah that's kinda what I'm asking. It would be cool if they made the Unholy Reaver upgradable.
Swords... swords... always damn swords. I say nay to that and demand some unholy clubs of doom restricted to blackguards only! Or maybe throwing clubs of utter darkness. Oh yes!
I'm guessing the Unholy Reaver is going to be tweaked into an "anti-Carsomyr." Considering you can only acquire it post-Underdark, I would hope that you won't be required to do anything else to upgrade it. The EE Unholy Reaver should come out of the box pre-Enhanced.
I'm guessing the Unholy Reaver is going to be tweaked into an "anti-Carsomyr." Considering you can only acquire it post-Underdark, I would hope that you won't be required to do anything else to upgrade it. The EE Unholy Reaver should come out of the box pre-Enhanced.
I hope that if they are going to tweak it, they will move it aswell. Post-Underdark is atleast to me the end of the game. The whole charm with Carsomyr is that you are able to get it early. It's a very hard and dangerous quest, but if you got the balls and want to, you can get it right at the start of chapter 2.
Just a point of clarification--and any modder out there can confirm this:
The description of that sword is inaccurate. Like...really inaccurate.
For anyone who wants to check for themselves in NI, it's "REAVER.ITM". I'm not proficient enough to decipher all of these effects, but the ones I can understand are pretty nice...
Just a point of clarification--and any modder out there can confirm this:
The description of that sword is inaccurate. Like...really inaccurate.
For anyone who wants to check for themselves in NI, it's "REAVER.ITM". I'm not proficient enough to decipher all of these effects, but the ones I can understand are pretty nice...
Ooh, somebody please do figure out what the base Unholy Reaver does. I'm terribly curious, now!
Yes but that's balanced by only having one weapon. A dual-weilder, even with mediocre weapons, will be getting a much higher damage per second than the Holy Avenger, its (admittedly huge) advantages would only come into play vs spellcasters.
There is a point in game where damage is so high that anything more than that isn't needed. A paladin wielding Carsomyr +5/+6 with 10 APR and 25 STR won't need anything else.
The reason FoA +5, Carsomyr +5/+6 and Ravager ranks so high are because of their special abilities.
FoA +5 = That elemental damage is insane, but the slow part is the most amazing thing with this weapon. It slows golems, spell casters, dragons, everything. Not to mention the elemental damage goes through shields so it's one of the most efficient weapons to fight mages with.
Carsomyr = 50% magic resistance would make this weapon worth it alone. But you also have a wonderful ability to dispel magic on hit with no save throw. This weapon shreds mages and everything else that either buffs or casts spells.
Ravager = Amazing damage but look at that instant kill ability. That thing takes down Draconis and all the other frustrating bosses in one hit. It's like a vorpal blade on steroids.
The only hard enemies in this game are spell casters. Carsomyr and FoA +5 are the most efficient weapons to deal with spell casters, so that's why they are the best weapons in the game.
I have no idea why you took the time to make this post. You haven't agreed or disagreed with anything I've said and simply regurgitated information.
Yes, a Paladin with 10 APR will have a huge damage output but realistically for most of BG 2 he does not have 10 APR so that's irrelevent. His damage per second output will still be far lower that someone duel-weilding, which the Holy Avenger's abilities compensate for.
By contrast the two-handed sword above does not have such abilities, so Blackguards seem pretty crappy.
Ooh, somebody please do figure out what the base Unholy Reaver does. I'm terribly curious, now!
Based on what I can read, it looks like charm/dominate immunity and a 50% chance to dispel on hit, but there are a couple of flags I'm not 100% sure about.
Can we please not drag this off-topic? We all know that the Holy Avenger is awesome, and the lack of this awesome is what makes Blackguard such a "meh" class.
The one advantage of a Paladin over a warrior *within the BG2 ruleset* is the Holy Avenger. Without this the Paladin is simply a nerfed warrior, and since the Blackguard lacks any of the useful Paladin kits it seems like it is indeed simply a slightly crappier warrior.
If it wasn't for the fact some enemies are immune to non-magical weapons, in an unmodded game you'd easily be able to beat the entire saga with the stick you receive at the start of BG1. This isn't Diablo, people, stop obsessing over things like "DPS".
@Joey: Even if I took your evaluation at face value - which I don't, because arguments about equipment are pointless since every player will have preferred configurations - you're overlooking the very real fact that Blackguards have innate advantages Paladins don't. Immunity to level drain is kind of a big deal in SoA.
Can we please not drag this off-topic? We all know that the Holy Avenger is awesome, and the lack of this awesome is what makes Blackguard such a "meh" class.
The one advantage of a Paladin over a warrior *within the BG2 ruleset* is the Holy Avenger. Without this the Paladin is simply a nerfed warrior, and since the Blackguard lacks any of the useful Paladin kits it seems like it is indeed simply a slightly crappier warrior.
On the contrary, I would argue that the great abilities a Blackguard gets outweigh the need to have a powerful artifact sword exclusively for them. Compared with a Fighter, the Blackguard gets Absorb Health, Poison Weapon, Aura of Despair and Rebuke Undead, none of which are anything to sneeze at. Blackguards are simply stronger than the other Paladin kits outside of specific situations.
As it currently stands, the true stats of the Unholy Reaver don't measure up to Carsomyr, but Blackguards don't need them to measure up.
I'd say that level drain immunity is one of the Blackguard's least useful abilities because it's so situational, @shawne.
Their Aura of Despair is pretty awesome, as it causes THAC0 and AC penalties with *no save*, and should work for nearly all enemies. Poison weapon, again is pretty good and is useful against most enemies.
Arguably only Inquisitors are a better paladin kit, and that's mainly because BG2 is so full of high-level casters.
As @shawne pointed out there's no point discussing items of an unreleased version of the game when the devs may change or add anything until release date unless you accept whatever you say is pure speculation and not the truth.
Blackguard natural abilities can easily be argued to be superior to most other Paladin kits.
We barely know anything about their implementation in BG2EE yet, everything is conjecture, speculation, and a few hints by the devs.
Paladins have many advantages over a fighter in BG and particularly BG2 beyond the presence of Carsomyr. Hint: You don't use the same spells as clerics do. Armor of Faith and Draw Upon Holy Might off the top of my head are fantastic as a paladin. Lay on Hands heals for a relevant amount at an instant speed. The good Paladin kits, Cavalier and Inquisitor in particular, have fantastic upsides.
Finally, this isn't World of Warcraft. Perfect balance between classes is not a primary, or even secondary, goal. Roll a Blackguard if you want to be an evil champion of some patron deity or demon. Recruit Dorn if you want a badass half-orc cutting stuff in half for you. That's the main concern here.
Can we please not drag this off-topic? We all know that the Holy Avenger is awesome, and the lack of this awesome is what makes Blackguard such a "meh" class.
The one advantage of a Paladin over a warrior *within the BG2 ruleset* is the Holy Avenger. Without this the Paladin is simply a nerfed warrior, and since the Blackguard lacks any of the useful Paladin kits it seems like it is indeed simply a slightly crappier warrior.
You're crazy if you think Blackguards and Paladins are "crappier warriors." Yeah, maybe their to-hit and damage is not quite as high as a Fighter, but their magical abilities and higher saving throws make up the difference.
@SionIV, that's true, but only because mages are such major enemies and the Inquisitor is so highly specialized to fight them. Considering that as the difference, what Blackguards need is not a powerful weapon, but any item at all that gives them Carsomyr-levels of magic resistance. I don't really recommend that, though, as Inquisitors feel pretty overpowered and probably shouldn't be what we're aiming for, balance-wise.
Also, the Blackguard's poison might end up being pretty amazing against mages, depending on what spell protections it hits through. Any Assassin players want to chime in there, since the abilities probably work much the same way?
@SionIV, that's true, but only because mages are such major enemies and the Inquisitor is so highly specialized to fight them. Considering that as the difference, what Blackguards need is not a powerful weapon, but any item at all that gives them Carsomyr-levels of magic resistance. I don't really recommend that, though, as Inquisitors feel pretty overpowered and probably shouldn't be what we're aiming for, balance-wise.
Also, the Blackguard's poison might end up being pretty amazing against mages, depending on what spell protections it hits through. Any Assassin players want to chime in there, since the abilities probably work much the same way?
Couldn't agree with you more. When you look at the Inquisitor on paper he really isn't that much. A free dispel magic and true seeing but ends up losing both his clerical spells, turn undead and lay on hands. But when you look at the hardest fights in the game, he really breaks the game like no other class can.
I'm very interested in how the Blackguard ends up in BG2.
@SionIV, you just used words to paint a graph of my opinion of the Inquisitor class over time. At first I was like "that's a lot of abilities to lose for some dispels and true sights. totally not worth it." Then I was like "okay, I haven't used this Keldorn guy yet, I guess I'll see how he plays." Then I was like "holy hamsterwheels, batman! everything that was hard just because 10 times easier!"
Comments
The description of that sword is inaccurate. Like...really inaccurate.
Yes, a Paladin with 10 APR will have a huge damage output but realistically for most of BG 2 he does not have 10 APR so that's irrelevent. His damage per second output will still be far lower that someone duel-weilding, which the Holy Avenger's abilities compensate for.
By contrast the two-handed sword above does not have such abilities, so Blackguards seem pretty crappy.
The one advantage of a Paladin over a warrior *within the BG2 ruleset* is the Holy Avenger. Without this the Paladin is simply a nerfed warrior, and since the Blackguard lacks any of the useful Paladin kits it seems like it is indeed simply a slightly crappier warrior.
If you compare one item to another ONE item, then Carsomyr is the best
You can argue that FoA + CF or something like that will be better, which I will find hard to argue against
But it's unfair to compare 2 weapons to just 1 because dual wield is just so superior in ToB
What's one item that is clearly better than Carsomyr for all-general purposes? Please name one
As it currently stands, the true stats of the Unholy Reaver don't measure up to Carsomyr, but Blackguards don't need them to measure up.
Their Aura of Despair is pretty awesome, as it causes THAC0 and AC penalties with *no save*, and should work for nearly all enemies. Poison weapon, again is pretty good and is useful against most enemies.
Arguably only Inquisitors are a better paladin kit, and that's mainly because BG2 is so full of high-level casters.
plus some non-warrior HLA for Monks, and special ones for Paladins
or is that against the contract limitations?
We barely know anything about their implementation in BG2EE yet, everything is conjecture, speculation, and a few hints by the devs.
Paladins have many advantages over a fighter in BG and particularly BG2 beyond the presence of Carsomyr. Hint: You don't use the same spells as clerics do. Armor of Faith and Draw Upon Holy Might off the top of my head are fantastic as a paladin. Lay on Hands heals for a relevant amount at an instant speed. The good Paladin kits, Cavalier and Inquisitor in particular, have fantastic upsides.
Finally, this isn't World of Warcraft. Perfect balance between classes is not a primary, or even secondary, goal. Roll a Blackguard if you want to be an evil champion of some patron deity or demon. Recruit Dorn if you want a badass half-orc cutting stuff in half for you. That's the main concern here.
Also, the Blackguard's poison might end up being pretty amazing against mages, depending on what spell protections it hits through. Any Assassin players want to chime in there, since the abilities probably work much the same way?
I'm very interested in how the Blackguard ends up in BG2.
Seriously, Inquisitors are nuts.
But if you have a level 13+ Fighter that's a grand master in Two Handed Swords dualclassed to a Thief using it through Use Any Item...
A Blade with Carsomyr and Offensive Spin.