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Remove ToB from BG2:EE

ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
Ok, so I know this is going to be controversial, but:

ToB was a disaster. Gameplay-wise it is so bad as to be unplayable, 2nd edition and infinity just doesn't work at this level, and HLA's just compound this - without exception they are all awful.
Even if you don't dislike the ToB gameplay as strongly as this, I think most people will tell you ToB was by far the weakest part of the BG series.
Putting gameplay aside however (perhaps it is fair to say "Well if you don't like it then just don't play it)
The writing was EVEN WORSE than the gameplay. It is an unbelievable, disappointing setting with DBZ type powerlevels, and poorly written NPC's and dialogue.
Sarevok should never ever have happened - it was just lazy and unjustifiable, and ultimately it was an incredibly disappointing ending to and otherwise great series of games.

So, what I would like to see is the complete retconning of the whole of ToB in BG2:EE and rebuilding high level gameplay and the ending to the Baldur's gate series from scratch by the new team.
Maybe this is impossible becuase of contract limitations, but then please at lease write an "alternative" (more correct) ending after all these years.



  • GrumpwagonGrumpwagon Member Posts: 25
    ToB is definitely the weakest link, but the series needs an end. Short of some huge adjustments, letting it remain as is seems a necessary evil and certainly preferable to just erasing it.

  • HeroicSpurHeroicSpur Member Posts: 907
    I also found ToB to be very disappointing, predictable and uninspired, wiping it out isn't the way to go though.

  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
  • HeinrichHeinrich Member Posts: 188
    It may not have been up to par with it's predecessors but it's better than nothing. Keep in mind that it was an expansion pack to conclude the Bhaal Spawn series and not a stand alone game to add another few more chapters to the series.

    The developers wanted to give an ending to it and as Space_Hamster said, it could've been a lot worse considering the developers likely had other plans or limitations at the time and couldn't invest too much into ToB.

    Erasing it would be too much. In my opinion, I was disappointed with the small amount of side quests and fresh new features but it was a satisfactory ending. Would you rather it end like the Sopranos?

  • NWN_babaYagaNWN_babaYaga Member Posts: 732
    I´ll wait and see what the Overhaul guys can do to improve the experience then. Powerlevels arent my thing anyway.

  • CuvCuv Member, Developer Posts: 2,535
    That is why Ascenion is a must-install... makes it all worthwhile

  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,159
    Yeah !
    And why not remove Bladurs Gate from Baldurs Gate ?

    Prophecy from beginning head towards to fight with others Bhaal childrens and ToB can´t have epic story because epic story was already spoken. ToB should been end CHARNAME story, his last epic fight. They would add some more contents ( to follow up BG3 ) but removing ToB is bullshit.

  • FrozenDervishFrozenDervish Member Posts: 295
    Honestly what could be done is make the ending of ToB a side quest or maybe modify it to be a dream sequence, this would make it so the original game was unchanged, but would leave it open to be better via more areas to explore/regions/quests, and maybe even go back to the Amnian regions, baldur's gate, and would give them license to create a 2nd rendition of the zones, but make them their own without even touching the original characters/story.

  • LRECLREC Member Posts: 68
    But.but.I never finished BG2 and got to play ToB :( BG2 always froze when I got to Suldanessellar :(

  • Jean_LucJean_Luc Member Posts: 228
    Cuv said:

    That is why Ascenion is a must-install... makes it all worthwhile

    I'd be surprised if they didn't include it in ToB:EE (contract shenanigans?), especially considering it's kind of an "official mod".

    At the risk of sounding like a cliche baldy, don't like it, don't play it. But ToB needs to stay for reasons stated above.

  • ZeckulZeckul Member Posts: 1,031
    Given Beamdog's stance on original content, we all know this won't happen...

  • Jean_LucJean_Luc Member Posts: 228
    edited July 2012
    Zeckul said:

    Given Beamdog's stance on original content, we all know this won't happen...

    I keep hoping this will be different somehow. :P I'm sure it'll be modded in anyway.

  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    edited July 2012
    I dont think its needs to be removed, but I do think the BG2:EE need to focus on TOB rather than BG2:SA, out of the BG1/Totsc/BG2/Tob - BG2 is the most polished one hence need less work. Tob on the other hand...

    though I dont know what can be done in order to Improve significantly, but I guess thats another thread.....

  • IllustairIllustair Member Posts: 863
    Is there nothing that can be done in altering content, really? Screw those contracts!:D Baldur's Gate trilogy is my most loved game, but I'm sure there are many things to be altered (and added of course) to make it even closer to perfection. Ascension for one is a heavy reason. We'll pay more if we must, please Beamdog use coercion if you have to.haha

  • Excalibur_2102Excalibur_2102 Member Posts: 351
    Seriously, I never considered ToB to be that bad. It was alot more linear, more combat focused and Melissan did have some particularly cheesey dialogue. I still look upon the expansion fondly though as a good ending (however I never played vanilla, just Ascension).

    As others have said, ToB will likely need as much as if not more work than SoA. I hope they will be able to do alot with ToB and make it more like the final game in the trillogy rather than just an expansion like it was meant to be, but only time will tell..

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Nope, love HLAs and Gram the Sword of Grief. ToB stays.

  • JarlaxleJarlaxle Member Posts: 105
    ToB is a great expansion, but compared to SoA is a little uninspired and linear. I think that just with some more lines of dialogue text would be much better. (But I know due contract it's impossible)

  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122

    ToB may be not as good as the rest of the saga. Hell, it can be even considered especially bad, but still... To put it bluntly, it's the most stupid and selfish request on this forum so far.

    Well, I understand why you might consider it selfish, if for example, you loved ToB, but why is "stupid"? Is it not reasonable to request a redo of what is almost universally considered the worst for of the BG series?

    Some people would say the same thing about dragon age 2 for example, and ToB is definitely the DA2 of BG. It is a shame that some people decide to fovour being polite over saying what they actually think, particularly on a relatively anonymous forum like these messageboards.

  • WardWard Member Posts: 1,305
    I think you're all over-reacting. ToB was a lot of fun to me. It was too short but the story elements were great. Nobody has properly told me what is so bad about ToB in my other thread yet, I don't see what's so bad about it.

    It just needs polish that's all. I think it's fantastic. To ask that it be removed is 'stupid' as Zelgadis put it because he probably doesn't think it's as bad as everybody else does. It isn't really selfish.. just ill thought and not going to happen.

  • FrozenCellsFrozenCells Member Posts: 385

    Let's put it in that way:

    "Hey, I hate everything about ToB, so please, remove it from the game so that thousands of players, including new ones, will be unable to play it. You know, just because I hate it! And by the way, I'm unable to notice that no one is forcing me to play ToB!"

    That's not stupid AND selfish to you? Seriously...?

    You know, it's not very nice to (quite rudely) misrepresent what someone says.

    Maybe read the topic next time before throwing out words like "stupid" or "selfish".

    p.s. he wasn't unable to notice that "no-one is forcing you to play ToB". Quoting from original and unedited post: "(perhaps it is fair to say "Well if you don't like it then just don't play it)".

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