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Romances between good and evil characters don't always go so well

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  • magpiemagpie Member Posts: 79
    edited October 2013

    What if she prefers being evil no matter what? It'll present a problem for good aligned charnames romancing her.

    Sounds like that could lead to interesting roleplaying. Clear something up for me: are you worried that the game will actively restrict the option to romance for certain alignments, or are you worried you can't turn Hexxat to good (if she's evil)?

  • onanonan Member Posts: 223

    Drugar said:

    They made an NPC that (possibly) doesn't cater completely to your personal desires?

    Her alignment hasn't been confirmed yet, I'm just speaking my concerns out loud. And I take your question as a thinly veiled insult towards me.
    Ok. Sarcasm I see but insult?

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    onan said:

    I thought Rasaad could only romance female human or elven dominatrixes.

    Only the people who have played good aligned female charnames know. I'm not one of them, but it makes sense for him to only romance the good aligned female charnames.

  • PibaroPibaro Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,989


    I agree with you for the most part. It is about roleplaying, not a side quest. But still there is the alignment barrier to consider, that is, if it will be a problem.

    Wich is relevant only if you are LG.
    But if you are LG and you care about roleplaying you could never romance an evil character unless you want to redeem her (him)

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,068

    onan said:

    I guess the implication is that it is indeed ok not to be able to romance her if she has an alignment preference. Personally, I find that refreshing. You have to make sacrifices and choices for individuals. And it's an excuse to try out different alignments.

    No! Hell to the NO! I'm not changing my charname's alignment, not in the game nor my fanfic! You may find that refreshing, but I find it garbage!
    That's not what he was saying. He was not suggesting you should change your active character's alignment. His meaning is trying out different alignments in different playthroughs.

    onanKamigoroshiEudaemoniumelminster
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013
    magpie said:

    What if she prefers being evil no matter what? It'll present a problem for good aligned charnames romancing her.

    Sounds like that could lead to interesting roleplaying. Clear something up for me: are you worried that the game will actively restrict the option to romance for certain alignments, or are you worried you can't turn Hexxat to good (if she's evil)?

    I do intend on doing the romance for roleplaying reasons, I mentioned that before. Hexxat will be one of the companion characters in my BG2EE fanfiction. And to answer your question, I'm worried about the former, active restrictions to romance certain alignments. I don't really care if I can't change Hexxat's alignment, as long as the romance doesn't force my charname to do something unethical. You know, lower his reputation or worse, change his alignment. I will lower my rep from time to time to satisfy my neutral aligned companions anyway.

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I'm kind of interested in why you seem so set on romancing Hexxat as opposed to, say, Neera. Hexxat is essentially a massive blank spot. All we know is that she is a rogue, and female, and apparently has glowing yellow eyes under certain circumstances. Everything else is a massive unknown. Neera is at least a known unknown (she is a wild mage, after all), and is open to males of any alignment. Is it primarily about party composition? (As in, you need a thief).

    magpieCalmarKidCarnival
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    Pibaro said:


    I agree with you for the most part. It is about roleplaying, not a side quest. But still there is the alignment barrier to consider, that is, if it will be a problem.

    Wich is relevant only if you are LG.
    But if you are LG and you care about roleplaying you could never romance an evil character unless you want to redeem her (him)

    That's the problem. My charname is LG, but he isn't a paladin.

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013
    scriver said:

    onan said:

    I guess the implication is that it is indeed ok not to be able to romance her if she has an alignment preference. Personally, I find that refreshing. You have to make sacrifices and choices for individuals. And it's an excuse to try out different alignments.

    No! Hell to the NO! I'm not changing my charname's alignment, not in the game nor my fanfic! You may find that refreshing, but I find it garbage!
    That's not what he was saying. He was not suggesting you should change your active character's alignment. His meaning is trying out different alignments in different playthroughs.
    I know, and I won't do it. I'd rather focus on one playthrough because I need to devote half of my time writing my fanfiction based on my playthrough. Well, if I could, I would change his alignment from LG to CG when I import him from BGEE.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,068

    scriver said:

    onan said:

    I guess the implication is that it is indeed ok not to be able to romance her if she has an alignment preference. Personally, I find that refreshing. You have to make sacrifices and choices for individuals. And it's an excuse to try out different alignments.

    No! Hell to the NO! I'm not changing my charname's alignment, not in the game nor my fanfic! You may find that refreshing, but I find it garbage!
    That's not what he was saying. He was not suggesting you should change your active character's alignment. His meaning is trying out different alignments in different playthroughs.
    I know, and I won't do it. I'd rather focus on one playthrough because I need to devote half of my time writing my fanfiction based on my playthrough. Well, if I could, I would change his alignment from LG to CG when I import him from BGEE.

    Very well.

    You could change his alignment through a save game editor like EEkeeper and such if you'd like to, though. Just mentioning it to make sure you know of that option.

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013

    I'm kind of interested in why you seem so set on romancing Hexxat as opposed to, say, Neera. Hexxat is essentially a massive blank spot. All we know is that she is a rogue, and female, and apparently has glowing yellow eyes under certain circumstances. Everything else is a massive unknown. Neera is at least a known unknown (she is a wild mage, after all), and is open to males of any alignment. Is it primarily about party composition? (As in, you need a thief).

    I was initially focused on Neera, I even had my charname complete the romance with her, but Hexxat seems more interesting. I guess I enjoy trying to figure out a mysterious woman. I'm not sure other guys think like me and my charname, but me and my charname find mysterious women cool and attractive in a way. Also, about my charname, both in game and in my BGEE fanfic, even though he is LG, he doesn't mind working with evil companions like Dorn and Edwin as long as he doesn't have to kill anyone innocent or with motives that sound or appear ethical. Plus, in my fanfic, he defended Viconia when Kivan tried to attack her, seeing how Kivan and most of his good aligned companions are blinded by their hatred of drow. Kivan, Minsc, Dynaheir, Imoen and Khalid believe that rejecting or killing one drow based on the actions of his/her race is justice, but my charname has a different view of justice, believing that rejecting or killing one drow based on the acts of his/her race is not justice, it's evil and hatred veiled in justice. It isn't about party composition, it's all about role playing. My charname is open to everyone regardless of alignment. And he isn't a paladin either.

    Post edited by BladeDancer on
    Eudaemonium
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013
    Drugar said:

    Drugar said:

    They made an NPC that (possibly) doesn't cater completely to your personal desires?

    Her alignment hasn't been confirmed yet, I'm just speaking my concerns out loud. And I take your question as a thinly veiled insult towards me.
    It's not an insult towards you, but it is an indication that I find your desposition on this matter to be extremely narrowminded (especially the remark about heterosexuals being left out if she's only interested in women) and almost bizarre.

    You're upset because the new character might not romance your character? Upset that she might not be a perfect match to the character you made?
    So either you want Overhaul to email you before making any character decisions to check if it's ok with your plans for your BG2 game, or you want every new NPC to be a completely blank slate that will partner up with anyone and thus lack any personality whatsoever.

    They're not making the game suited to your character. Getting upset about that is...very sad.
    I took it as an insult because he believed Hexie should cater to MY personal desires. He thinks it's about me. That is not the case. This isn't about me, or my charname, this is about the freedom of roleplaying.

    What's to be upset about? Nothing has been set in stone yet. I'm only voicing my concerns about if she happens to be evil, and if she only romances evil charnames, unlike Viconia.

    Post edited by BladeDancer on
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    scriver said:

    scriver said:

    onan said:

    I guess the implication is that it is indeed ok not to be able to romance her if she has an alignment preference. Personally, I find that refreshing. You have to make sacrifices and choices for individuals. And it's an excuse to try out different alignments.

    No! Hell to the NO! I'm not changing my charname's alignment, not in the game nor my fanfic! You may find that refreshing, but I find it garbage!
    That's not what he was saying. He was not suggesting you should change your active character's alignment. His meaning is trying out different alignments in different playthroughs.
    I know, and I won't do it. I'd rather focus on one playthrough because I need to devote half of my time writing my fanfiction based on my playthrough. Well, if I could, I would change his alignment from LG to CG when I import him from BGEE.

    Very well.

    You could change his alignment through a save game editor like EEkeeper and such if you'd like to, though. Just mentioning it to make sure you know of that option.
    EEkeeper?

  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Okay, that makes sense, but to be honest we don't even know if Hexxat *is* mysterious. She's mysterious to *us*, yes, but whether she is in the game or not is, well, a mystery. XD

    Its possible, however, that her romance will be somehow restricted. While none of the EE NPCs have racial restrictions like those in the vanilla BG2, both Rasaad and Neera have some restrictions (Good-aligned females and males, respectively). The only one that isn't picky is Dorn, but that makes sense since he seems primarily attracted to things like power and skill, and Charname's prowess, to say nothing of his or her divine heritage, would logically draw him to them. Hexxat might have similar restrictions on alignment or gender. We know, for example, that there is a lesbian romance option in BG2EE. Assuming Neera is still straight, this leaves Hexxat, and while the working assumption is that, much like Dorn, she will be open to relationships with both male and female NPCs, this might not be the case. She might be the reverse of Neera and just be open to 'females of any alignment'. Heck, she could be the opposite of Rasaad and only be available to, say 'Evil-Aligned females', but I think that is the most unlikely option.

    Whether she will make you perform, if not necessarily an evil act, then an act that is decidedly 'not good', is another question entirely, however. I fully expect those who romance Dorn will probably have to face this scenario, though.

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013
    Corvino said:

    Not all people are going to be compatible. Having things in common is important. If I starting dating a girl who loved pop music and TV reality/talent shows and thought that Twilight was the pinnacle of literature then it wouldn't last long.

    Similarly it would take something pretty unusual to hold together a relationship between a Paragon of virtue and someone who may be larcenous, distant or even murderous for all we know.

    Viconia and good aligned human or half-elven male charnames won't have much in common, but they somehow manage to find common ground, though, despite their differences, not just racial differences, but also personality differences, that is, if charname isn't evil.

    Also, if you claim a good aligned charname would only romance Viconia to redeem her or something like that, look at the romance from your charname's point of view, not the player's point of view and realize that as your character, you have no way of knowing if Viconia's alignment can be changed, you and Viccy are just simply swept up in a storm of lust for the time being.

  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    If you look at Viconia's actions throughout the series she doesn't really do or endorse much by way of evil. Her alignment is pretty much a function of her origins and her upbringing and she began rejecting it before she met the player character. While she is fairly ruthless and she would most definitely shoot the dog she is unlikely to kick the dog.

    Eudaemoniumfujisan
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Pibaro said:


    Wich is relevant only if you are LG.
    But if you are LG and you care about roleplaying you could never romance an evil character unless you want to redeem her (him)

    I am inclined to disagree. It would depend entirely on why the evil character is evil. I could see a Lawful Good and Lawful Evil character falling in love, not necessarily agreeing on everything, but being in a relationship, certainly.

  • PalanthisPalanthis Member Posts: 283
    edited October 2013



    I took it as an insult because he believed Hexie should cater to MY personal desires. He thinks it's about me. That is not the case. This isn't about me, or my charname, this is about the freedom of roleplaying.

    What's to be upset about? Nothing has been set in stone yet. I'm only voicing my concerns about if she happens to be evil, and if she only romances evil charnames, unlike Viconia.

    I don't understand the whole point of this discussion. What do you really want BladeDancer ? Do you want the devs to change their NPC just for your roleplaying ? Because i don't see how "freedom of roleplaying" could be achieved when any NPC does what YOU want (or to say it in another way, if any NPC can be modified according to your plans, in such a way that he doesn't have a true "soul" and story by himself).

    IMHO, roleplaying YOUR character is about playing him in a pre-set world (made by the DungeonMaster or the devs of a video game), not about changing any other character of the story just to make your character happy.
    The fictionnal world wouldn't make any sense if all its characters had emotions, goals, and a personnality that you would be able to change completely.
    It's not realistic and it's not fun if you're the only "true" character of this story (or, it is megalomaniac in Tiax's way, and i don't think you are).

    --> If you want to have complete freedom about NPC, then by all means go create your party of 6 characters, define their history and then roleplay all of them.
    Recrutable NPC are NOT like that and I think it's good. Maybe Hexxat will like good characters, maybe she'll prefer evil ones, or maybe she won't give a shit.
    And thats why we'll actually love her (or not). That's what so beautiful about this game, to live a story that seems true in a big, complex fantasy world, with fully fleshed out characters that seem to be true.

    In my first playthough of BG2EE i'd really like to romance Hexxat. An I will be Evil too. But, if i say something wrong sometimes, then she might despise my Charactername and refuse his love for her. It's ok. It could then becomes a great tragedy... or even maybe i'll find out she's not my type and go romancing Neera instead. Isn't all of this "freedom of roleplaying" ?

    CalmarKidCarnivalJuliusBorisovScooter
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    These are pre-written characters with only a finite number of interactions. It is impossible for the developers to cater to any given story path. I want my paladin PC to convince Neera that her irresponsible use of Wild Magic is an indefensible danger to innocents and have her turn into a Neutral Good Cleric/Thief, but it's never going to happen.

    Hexxat could be a bisexual neutral blank slate that will conform to anything the PC has to offer, or she could be a chaotic evil lesbian tiefling who will only romance females with strength and charisma >16 and will instantly quit the party if you ever invite a male. Either one is a potentially solid character.

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Madhax said:

    These are pre-written characters with only a finite number of interactions. It is impossible for the developers to cater to any given story path. I want my paladin PC to convince Neera that her irresponsible use of Wild Magic is an indefensible danger to innocents and have her turn into a Neutral Good Cleric/Thief, but it's never going to happen.

    Implying wild magic is even a choice.

  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    i thought this would be something like "i was romancing viconia and she left me because my reputation was too high". however, i would rather have the characters have a personality than just accept anybody, so i am ok with things as they are. sometimes sacrifices must be made. to keep alistair in DAO you need to kill loghain even if you want to spare him and it makes him more real that he has his own ideals.

    KidCarnival
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416

    Madhax said:

    These are pre-written characters with only a finite number of interactions. It is impossible for the developers to cater to any given story path. I want my paladin PC to convince Neera that her irresponsible use of Wild Magic is an indefensible danger to innocents and have her turn into a Neutral Good Cleric/Thief, but it's never going to happen.

    Implying wild magic is even a choice.
    I would assume attempting arcane magic wouldn't give you the option to not experience wild surges, but surely a wild mage could avoid using arcane magic altogether? Neera clearly has injured and possibly even killed people by accident before, it bugs me how she doesn't spend much time thinking about how to harness her power.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,068
    It... Really should be. Neera always seemed a lot more like a sorcerer who can't control her powers than a Wild Mage to me. A Wild Mage, originally, was somebody who purposefully opted away from the common schools of magic to study wild magic instead, not somebody who were just clumsy with their casting. That's usually called a failed apprentice.

    DrugarCalmarKidCarnival
  • LuigirulesLuigirules Member Posts: 415

    onan said:

    Then you don't have a successful romance option with her. It's just like real life. Not everyone falls for me even though I have the essence of a God.

    ... Story of my life. -_-

    Hopefully without the "essence of a god" bit.

    Because if you think you have that...hoo boy.

    KidCarnival
  • fujisanfujisan Member Posts: 30
    I love strong willed NPC's regardless of alignment and don't see why they should compromise their integrity just because my character is around. Not all people get along in life so why should they in the game?

    Personally I would like Hexxat to not just be evil, but so bad that even Bodhi would be impressed. That way all areas of the alignment spectrum will be covered because lets face it Viconia was never really that bad at all.

    Thinking about it I would really like it she was romanceable by all, but would actively try to corrupt good characters and call it off if they refused to come around to her way of thinking and change alignment.

    KidCarnival
  • KaltzorKaltzor Member Posts: 1,050
    One of the advantages of being an Evil CHARNAME... Unless you're Chaotic Evil... No having to care about how good or evil some things you do are considered.

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013
    Palanthis said:



    I don't understand the whole point of this discussion. What do you really want BladeDancer ? Do you want the devs to change their NPC just for your roleplaying ? Because i don't see how "freedom of roleplaying" could be achieved when any NPC does what YOU want (or to say it in another way, if any NPC can be modified according to your plans, in such a way that he doesn't have a true "soul" and story by himself).

    IMHO, roleplaying YOUR character is about playing him in a pre-set world (made by the DungeonMaster or the devs of a video game), not about changing any other character of the story just to make your character happy.
    The fictionnal world wouldn't make any sense if all its characters had emotions, goals, and a personnality that you would be able to change completely.
    It's not realistic and it's not fun if you're the only "true" character of this story (or, it is megalomaniac in Tiax's way, and i don't think you are).

    --> If you want to have complete freedom about NPC, then by all means go create your party of 6 characters, define their history and then roleplay all of them.
    Recrutable NPC are NOT like that and I think it's good. Maybe Hexxat will like good characters, maybe she'll prefer evil ones, or maybe she won't give a shit.
    And thats why we'll actually love her (or not). That's what so beautiful about this game, to live a story that seems true in a big, complex fantasy world, with fully fleshed out characters that seem to be true.

    In my first playthough of BG2EE i'd really like to romance Hexxat. An I will be Evil too. But, if i say something wrong sometimes, then she might despise my Charactername and refuse his love for her. It's ok. It could then becomes a great tragedy... or even maybe i'll find out she's not my type and go romancing Neera instead. Isn't all of this "freedom of roleplaying" ?

    How did this confusion happen...? If I wanted the devs to changed their NPC just for my roleplaying, I would have said so before on my first post, but I didn't. All I noted here is my belief that if she truly is lawful, neutral or chaotic evil, then I have a gut feeling that she won't be anything like Viconia, romancing any alignment human or half-elven charnames, for example. I have a hunch that only evil aligned charnames might only be able to romance Hexie. But if a good aligned character can romance her, I have a hunch that charname's alignment might get changed whether the player likes it or not. It's just a hunch, don't let it bother you.

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013

    onan said:

    Then you don't have a successful romance option with her. It's just like real life. Not everyone falls for me even though I have the essence of a God.

    ... Story of my life. -_-

    Hopefully without the "essence of a god" bit.

    Because if you think you have that...hoo boy.
    I forgot to say without the "essence of a god" part. lol. I'm happy being an average guy.

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