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Romances between good and evil characters don't always go so well

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  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    I guess I am not getting the drift of this thread. I am what I consider to be a 'Good' aligned guy (though some may think different here on the forum). Every single of my relationships in life, including my current wife, have all been totally the definition of totally EVIL wenches. We get along. So in real life as in game. Right?

    Kamigoroshi
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    It may appear that I have my sights set on a blurry finish line, but the truth is I'm very uncertain about my decisions. I keep second guessing my choices. I feel like I'm on a road with so many detours, and I don't even have a road map. I'm not sure where I want to go from where I'm standing. I don't want to hit a dead end, and that is what scares me into second guessing my choices and ideas.

    Answer's simple, then: don't romance Hexxat. If that's the one component of your storyline that you can't lock down, then go with Neera instead - she's more likely to be "compatible" with whatever traits you've imagined for your PC anyway.

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477

    I guess I am not getting the drift of this thread. I am what I consider to be a 'Good' aligned guy (though some may think different here on the forum). Every single of my relationships in life, including my current wife, have all been totally the definition of totally EVIL wenches. We get along. So in real life as in game. Right?

    ....

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013
    shawne said:

    It may appear that I have my sights set on a blurry finish line, but the truth is I'm very uncertain about my decisions. I keep second guessing my choices. I feel like I'm on a road with so many detours, and I don't even have a road map. I'm not sure where I want to go from where I'm standing. I don't want to hit a dead end, and that is what scares me into second guessing my choices and ideas.

    Answer's simple, then: don't romance Hexxat. If that's the one component of your storyline that you can't lock down, then go with Neera instead - she's more likely to be "compatible" with whatever traits you've imagined for your PC anyway.
    I'm not so sure... I don't even know who is compatible anyway. It's not simple, I am having trouble making a decision. I'm not sure if I want to continue romancing Neera or not, I'm not sure if I really want to romance either Hexxat, Aerie or even Viccy. So many choices, and I can't make a choice because i keep on second guessing. You can't even see how uncertain I am about my options, can you? Jeez, you'd make a terrible shrink. Also, I find it strange how everyone who commented here suggests Neera and not one vote for Aerie, Viccy, or even Jaheira.

  • CoryNewbCoryNewb Member Posts: 1,330
    Because neera is new to all of us. The content us never before seen, and the unknown intrigues us.

    As far as I know, Hexxat is asexual and has no desire for romance.

    nemiafala
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    CoryNewb said:

    Because neera is new to all of us. The content us never before seen, and the unknown intrigues us.

    As far as I know, Hexxat is asexual and has no desire for romance.

    So you're telling me that you know what is currently unknown?

  • CoryNewbCoryNewb Member Posts: 1,330
    edited October 2013

    CoryNewb said:

    Because neera is new to all of us. The content us never before seen, and the unknown intrigues us.

    As far as I know, Hexxat is asexual and has no desire for romance.

    So you're telling me that you know what is currently unknown?
    No, I meant "as far as we know" meaning there is a possibility of that outcome. Not all NPCs have to be romanceable. What if she is married or widowed. People know that neera will be romance able by just about anyone already, hexxat is an unknown variable at this point.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @BladeDancer: It's not that I don't see your problem, it's that I don't care. You're here complaining at length about a subject that affects you, and only you, in a manner that is both anal-retentive and borderline-offensive. Forgive me for not bending over backwards to accommodate you, especially when you reject potential solutions to your problem with a "my way or ragequit" attitude.

    You want a romance that doesn't compromise your character. Hexxat might; Neera won't.

    Your other alternative is to avoid BG2:EE until other players report on how the romances break down, and then start up your story.

    KidCarnivalEudaemoniumKamigoroshiKolonKu
  • ShapiroKeatsDarkMageShapiroKeatsDarkMage Member Posts: 2,428
    What is your Charname class and alignment anyway?

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    CoryNewb said:

    CoryNewb said:

    Because neera is new to all of us. The content us never before seen, and the unknown intrigues us.

    As far as I know, Hexxat is asexual and has no desire for romance.

    So you're telling me that you know what is currently unknown?
    No, I meant "as far as we know" meaning there is a possibility of that outcome. Not all NPCs have to be romanceable. What if she is married or widowed. People know that neera will be romance able by just about anyone already, hexxat is an unknown variable at this point.
    You didn't make that clear at first. It sounded as if you said you knew the facts.

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013
    shawne said:

    @BladeDancer: It's not that I don't see your problem, it's that I don't care. You're here complaining at length about a subject that affects you, and only you, in a manner that is both anal-retentive and borderline-offensive. Forgive me for not bending over backwards to accommodate you, especially when you reject potential solutions to your problem with a "my way or ragequit" attitude.

    You want a romance that doesn't compromise your character. Hexxat might; Neera won't.

    Your other alternative is to avoid BG2:EE until other players report on how the romances break down, and then start up your story.

    Figures. You're just here to argue. Just one question: Why only Neera? What makes Aerie not an option to you?

  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477

    What is your Charname class and alignment anyway?

    Fighter, Lawful Good

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Why are you opposed to writing a story where the romantic sub-plot doesn't work out? Sounds refreshing to me.

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Romance Anomen! He can be redeemed to good! Nothing wrong with some Brokeback Mountain, right?

    onanEudaemoniumDrugarLoReN_LK
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited October 2013

    Why are you opposed to writing a story where the romantic sub-plot doesn't work out? Sounds refreshing to me.

    Because my charname would have to refuse the advances of Viconia and Neera long before the moment he finds out he and Hexie won't make a good couple at all. I'm not going to have him crawl up to Viccy or Neera and whine: "I'm sorry for rejecting you! I'll be a good boy, I swear!" or some crap like that. Besides, Viconia would be seriously disgusted by that, and I don't think Neera would be so forgiving either after being rejected, especially after my charname tried to romance her in my BGEE fanfic. In short, I would hit a dead end in the romance sub-plot, and I will be far past the point of no return.

  • onanonan Member Posts: 223
    So it's Hexie now. You guys are already at nicknames level. I predict it will be just fine.

    SchneidendEudaemoniumKidCarnival
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190


    Because my charname would have to refuse the advances of Viconia and Neera long before the moment he finds out he and Hexie won't make a good couple at all. I'm not going to have him crawl up to Viccy or Neera and whine: "I'm sorry for rejecting you! I'll be a good boy, I swear!" or some crap like that. Besides, Viconia would be seriously disgusted by that, and I don't think Neera would be so forgiving either after being rejected, especially after my charname tried to romance her in my BGEE fanfic. In short, I would hit a dead end in the romance sub-plot, and I will be far past the point of no return.

    Doesn't sound like a dead-end so much as the story isn't a fairy tale romance. So nobody ends up with anybody? Like I said - sounds refreshing.

    nemiafalaKidCarnival
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477


    Because my charname would have to refuse the advances of Viconia and Neera long before the moment he finds out he and Hexie won't make a good couple at all. I'm not going to have him crawl up to Viccy or Neera and whine: "I'm sorry for rejecting you! I'll be a good boy, I swear!" or some crap like that. Besides, Viconia would be seriously disgusted by that, and I don't think Neera would be so forgiving either after being rejected, especially after my charname tried to romance her in my BGEE fanfic. In short, I would hit a dead end in the romance sub-plot, and I will be far past the point of no return.

    Doesn't sound like a dead-end so much as the story isn't a fairy tale romance. So nobody ends up with anybody? Like I said - sounds refreshing.
    More like charname ends up with nobody, and that's an outcome I don't want, end of story. Goodbye and let this discussion topic fade away.

  • onanonan Member Posts: 223
    I have another question. What if there is another love triangle like Haer Daelis, Aerie and Charname? And what if Hexxat goes for, I don't know, say Anomen instead of Charname.

    Now that would make me ragequit.

    KidCarnival
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    onan said:

    I have another question. What if there is another love triangle like Haer Daelis, Aerie and Charname? And what if Hexxat goes for, I don't know, say Anomen instead of Charname.

    Now that would make me ragequit.

    Time will tell.

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190



    More like charname ends up with nobody, and that's an outcome I don't want, end of story. Goodbye and let this discussion topic fade away.

    The road of the hero (or anti-hero) is often a lonely one. 'Tis sad, but true.

    EudaemoniumKidCarnival
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477



    More like charname ends up with nobody, and that's an outcome I don't want, end of story. Goodbye and let this discussion topic fade away.

    The road of the hero (or anti-hero) is often a lonely one. 'Tis sad, but true.
    Not often. Sometimes the road of a hero is dangerous, especially when his enemies are aware he/she has a girlfriend/boyfriend. Goodbye now.

  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    On a vaguely related note, it bugged me that Neera wasn't romanceable by female PCs. Not in a "she's wild, so she's gotta be bisexual!" way, because that's asinine, but in a "they can't change any of the original characters or add a Shar-teel romance or something, so it'd be good if the only new female NPC provided a homosexual romance option". At least there will be one in BGIIEE.

    As for alignment conflicts, they should exist although, like racial preferences, it'd be nice if it came up through dialogue rather than just being a You Must Be This Good/Lawful/Elven To Romance Here blockade.

    JalilyKidCarnival
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Ayiekie said:

    On a vaguely related note, it bugged me that Neera wasn't romanceable by female PCs. Not in a "she's wild, so she's gotta be bisexual!" way, because that's asinine, but in a "they can't change any of the original characters or add a Shar-teel romance or something, so it'd be good if the only new female NPC provided a homosexual romance option". At least there will be one in BGIIEE.

    As for alignment conflicts, they should exist although, like racial preferences, it'd be nice if it came up through dialogue rather than just being a You Must Be This Good/Lawful/Elven To Romance Here blockade.

    That's actually quite interesting. I've never done any of the original romances, so it surprises me that for example, Viconia's lack of desire to romance elven PCs wasn't communicated in some way. I guess I always kind of assumed it was.

    On the other hand, I was kind of expecting Neera to be the bisexual option, so I was pleasantly surprised when it turned out to be Dorn.

    KidCarnivalonan
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    Yeah, it was definitely great that there was male/male romance. Having only female/female and no m/m is very skeevy (looking at you, Mass Effect, and don't give me that nonsense about how Asari aren't really female - at least they finally rectified that in 3). But obviously it'd be better if it was both.

    Eudaemoniumonan
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Ayiekie said:

    Yeah, it was definitely great that there was male/male romance. Having only female/female and no m/m is very skeevy (looking at you, Mass Effect, and don't give me that nonsense about how Asari aren't really female - at least they finally rectified that in 3). But obviously it'd be better if it was both.

    Even if you accept the rather spurious logic that asari aren't female (which isn't true anyway, they are monogendered, and that one gender is female, no matter what bizarre logic Hudson pulled out of his ass), they still added Kelly Chambers in ME2. (It also makes very little logical sense why characters like Garrus, Thane, and Tali would not be open to 'same sex' pairings, considering they are entirely different species and thus conventional species rules of attraction simply do not apply.)

    I am thankful they are adding a female/female pairing in BG2EE, though (I am assuming it is Hexxat, though I guess it is always possible Neera has opened up to Charname's sex-transcending badassery). What I am actually curious about is whether Hexxat is going to be purely a lesbian romanctic interest. I and many are probably assuming she'll be bisexual and thus open to both male and female Charnames, but this really doesn't have to be the case at all.

    AyiekieKidCarnivalKamigoroshionan
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975


    Even if you accept the rather spurious logic that asari aren't female (which isn't true anyway, they are monogendered, and that one gender is female, no matter what bizarre logic Hudson pulled out of his ass), they still added Kelly Chambers in ME2. (It also makes very little logical sense why characters like Garrus, Thane, and Tali would not be open to 'same sex' pairings, considering they are entirely different species and thus conventional species rules of attraction simply do not apply.)

    I'm not sure I can agree with the last part (obviously I do agree with the first, Asari are female). But, taken for granted the existence of species which are roughly humanoid in body type and have a male/female sexual split, I can see it being realistic that your sexual preferences would apply to another species.

    I mean, to be blunt, if Tali was completely identical as a character except she did NOT have human breasts, swollen hips and a female voice, the people who would want to romance her in their games would be different. By the same token, if Garrus did have breasts and a female-sounding voice but was otherwise completely identical as a character, the fanbase enthusiastically expressing perverse sexual lust for the character would be largely (not wholly) different.

    I'd agree with your argument for species that are less obviously just "humans with a new coat of paint and some doodads", though.

    Eudaemonium
  • marcerormarceror Member Posts: 577
    edited October 2013

    magpie said:

    What if she prefers being evil no matter what? It'll present a problem for good aligned charnames romancing her.

    Sounds like that could lead to interesting roleplaying. Clear something up for me: are you worried that the game will actively restrict the option to romance for certain alignments, or are you worried you can't turn Hexxat to good (if she's evil)?

    I do intend on doing the romance for roleplaying reasons, I mentioned that before. Hexxat will be one of the companion characters in my BG2EE fanfiction. And to answer your question, I'm worried about the former, active restrictions to romance certain alignments. I don't really care if I can't change Hexxat's alignment, as long as the romance doesn't force my charname to do something unethical. You know, lower his reputation or worse, change his alignment. I will lower my rep from time to time to satisfy my neutral aligned companions anyway.
    If this is something you're doing for roleplaying reasons, than it sounds like you'll have to roleplay it out. You're not sure how Hexxat is going to act. You'll just have to wait and see and then "role play" based on her decisions. The romance may not make it. And if not, I'm sure there will be some good roleplaying opportunities around why it didn't.

    I don't see how this would hinder your roleplaying. That said, I suspect roleplaying isn't exactly the right word for what you're looking for. It seems like you're looking for a guarantee that Hexxat won't have any issues with your good aligned PC, and that doesn't have anything to do with roleplaying. That has to do with a desire to control outcomes.

    EudaemoniumSchneidendKidCarnival
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190



    Not often. Sometimes the road of a hero is dangerous, especially when his enemies are aware he/she has a girlfriend/boyfriend. Goodbye now.

    If Hexxat and CHARNAME don't work out, then why not go with that and kill her off? Perhaps Davaeron kills her?

  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747

    Ayiekie said:

    On a vaguely related note, it bugged me that Neera wasn't romanceable by female PCs. Not in a "she's wild, so she's gotta be bisexual!" way, because that's asinine, but in a "they can't change any of the original characters or add a Shar-teel romance or something, so it'd be good if the only new female NPC provided a homosexual romance option". At least there will be one in BGIIEE.

    As for alignment conflicts, they should exist although, like racial preferences, it'd be nice if it came up through dialogue rather than just being a You Must Be This Good/Lawful/Elven To Romance Here blockade.

    That's actually quite interesting. I've never done any of the original romances, so it surprises me that for example, Viconia's lack of desire to romance elven PCs wasn't communicated in some way. I guess I always kind of assumed it was.

    On the other hand, I was kind of expecting Neera to be the bisexual option, so I was pleasantly surprised when it turned out to be Dorn.
    Same here, the most I've seen of the romances is here on the forum, never played them. There is a lot you don't even notice when you play evil parties, which I do most of the time. It's just Viconia and if you happen to pick a dialogue that shuts the romance down, you'll never know it's there. The only non-evil charname I played was a female druid - and being a divine caster myself, I didn't take Anomen along.

    Frankly, at first I didn't understand the logic behind Dorn being the bisexual addition because, compared to Neera, he seems like a very rigid character with very specific values and tastes who would turn charname down for things as insignificant as the "wrong" hair color. Therefore, it seemed strange that he had zero restrictions on anything (and I still find it rather mismatched that he is open to all alignments). Now, I see the point in his attraction to power and hence the Bhaal essence, but still say that Neera would have been the better choice, simply because she is neutral and can fit in any party.
    It's the old "if there is only one thing that potentially everyone wants, make it accessable for everyone". A good aligned charname who wants a homosexual romance now has to accept a rep drop and the roleplay hassle of having an openly bloodthirsty, demon-contract-signing Blackguard in the party. It's not a easy going evil guy like Kagain, who could as well be Lawful Neutral and is easy to justify in a good party.

    That's mainly a mechanical issue though, since I know the hassle of playing mixed parties all too well, being evil in BG2. I do think Dorn is well written, and as a - like @BladeDancer would say - "homo" myself, I certainly appreciate it that Dorn is not a walking stereotype (flamboyant, femme man whore) and that certainly inspires confidence that the f/f romance option will be treated equally stereotype-free.

    DrugaronanNonnahswriter
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