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Why I am unhappy with Hexxat *spoiler*

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  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    The barrier is defined by magic, not Google. :)
    jackjack
  • WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 132
    But the description is "single-minded" so would it not work? It doesn't say, "Only a person whose soul purpose is to do one and only one thing may pass." It says only a "single-minded" individual may pass. Huge difference, no?
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Wayniac said:


    Google defines it as such:

    sin·gle-mind·ed
    adjective
    1.
    having or concentrating on only one aim or purpose.
    "the single-minded pursuit of profit"

    So based on that definition, it can work with the main character.

    Right, but we're talking about magic. It might be much more literal/specific than that. As in, Clara can get through because she doesn't have a thought in her head other than awakening Hexxat. CHARNAME has concerns like "what am I?" and "what does Irenicus want?"
    Akihiko
  • WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 132
    Does Clara not have other things on her mind? Yes, she is being controlled, but she obviously has other thoughts. She begs to be allowed to live once she does as she is asked. If she had no other thoughts or concerns, she would quietly die as Hexxat sucked the life from her, but she does not.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Wayniac said:

    Does Clara not have other things on her mind? Yes, she is being controlled, but she obviously has other thoughts. She begs to be allowed to live once she does as she is asked. If she had no other thoughts or concerns, she would quietly die as Hexxat sucked the life from her, but she does not.

    Right, but she only has those thoughts once the mind-doll mode wears off.
  • WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 132
    edited November 2013

    Wayniac said:

    Does Clara not have other things on her mind? Yes, she is being controlled, but she obviously has other thoughts. She begs to be allowed to live once she does as she is asked. If she had no other thoughts or concerns, she would quietly die as Hexxat sucked the life from her, but she does not.

    Right, but she only has those thoughts once the mind-doll mode wears off.
    So could one circumvent the barrier by charming a team member and sending them through then? If we are holding firm to your argument, as long as we place them in a charmed state, it should suffice, right?
  • OtherworldlyOtherworldly Member Posts: 13
    LiamEsler said:

    I'd really suggest that people actually play Hexxat's storyline beyond Dragomir's Tomb before dismissing her, particularly through ToB. It might change your perspective a little :)

    I don't like her, why should I have to keep her around for almost 100 hours (most of that time spent annoying me) to see if my option changes, nope she's dropped. Like Cernd she's in the game and a great option for some, but not for me. Unfortunately, since she was the lesbian character it means no romance for my fighter/mage, sad but necessary. I'm sorry I feel like an ass reacting so negatively, I can only imagine the amount of time and effort that went into her design, but I can't find anything to like about her. She's in the game and she serves a purpose, and she's not for me.
  • DisgruntlerDisgruntler Member Posts: 100
    I'd like to voice my opinion, too.

    At the moment I'm doing SoA with an evil party and have been to two tombs for Hexxat. Her writing is decent. Perhabs she would feel better, if her introduction hadn't been so flawed. There are a few big problems I have with the whole introduction.
    Until the point Clara was murdered, I had no connection with Hexxat. She basically popped out of her casket, murdered a party member and I somehow was expected to help her along by giving her the cloak.
    Without me knowing of the new NPC Hexxat, I'd have had zero reason to let her join my party, or leave her alive. The only thing that made me take her as a party member was my meta knowledge. Which is bad, because it completely broke the flow of the game and spoiled Hexxats further content. The first hint of her actually joining me in the game itself was Hexxat asking me to meet her someplace else in two hours time.
    Even worse was the introduction of her bag of holding, where she respawns. Not 5 minutes after me being an ass and refusing her the cloak until I felt a fight was imminent, she trusted me with her life. Like we've been buddies since childhood or something. This is compunded by Hexxats otherwise elusive and mistrusting personality (in her romance).

    The introductionary quest and dialogue just came apart at the seems. Clara was obviously under some form of influence. At no point did the player have a chance to get her some magical help and the only possible motivation for going with her was treasure. Repeated so often and so repetitive that nobody actually believed in the existence of the same.

    It wasn't helping that I liked Clara and her voice lines. There was something misterious about her pauses and the way she murmured Hexxat to herself. Very fitting of mind control or an addled brain.

    So, here's my suggestion on how to improve this quest.
    Flesh out Clara. Make her a possible NPC. At the very least give her enough of a personality that she can convince a group of adventureres of her sanity. Make the mind control a surprise.
    Instead of just repeating treasure like a zombie does brains, let her tell the player some story about some undead that was burried with artifacts or something.
    That would also prepare the player for the real Hexxat. Maybe make Clara even promise to help the player in his quest to find Imoen/Irenicus if he helps her first. Hexxat could then later reveal the mind control and also reafirm her promise to help the player.
    My experience with Hexxat was sullied by the rocky start, so this would help tremendously.

    Clara could even get her own quest line of removing the damage the mind control did to her abilities, if she were to become a joinable NPC. Could be a convenient way to bump up her mediocre abilities somewhat. Would also fit her class quite nicely (slippery mind anyone?)

    As it stands I doubt I'll take Hexxat again, unless her content in ToB turns out to be amazing. She isn't a bad NPC, just somewhat unassuming compared to the likes of Edwin. It's only the beginning what makes her difficult for me.
    AkihikoEmmiAranthysbooinyoureyes
  • WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 132
    @Disgruntler has some solid points and suggestions.

    I like the idea of Clara promising to help you if you help her first, then winding up dead, then having Hexxat explain that yes, she used you and Clara, but it was the only way she could finally escape the tomb in which she was trapped and her promise to help you still stands.

    It would feel less ridiculous to me than having her kill a party member and following it with you extending your hand for her to join. I feel like even evil parties would have an issue with someone just offing a fellow party member like that.
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    Again, I imagine evil parties (who are likely using the obviously addled Clara to get the treasure, and thus not overly concerned with her well-being) are likely to take a "what's done is done" attitude once they realise the opportunity to have a supernaturally powerful vampire at their disposal and in their debt is on offer. You just met Clara a few days ago at most, and she's not coherent or very powerful, so it's unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely) that an evil character has particularly strong feelings about her other than her being a useful tool, and Hexxat is obviously a far more useful tool.

    The evil choice is to side with Bodhi, too, and she's far more obviously malevolent and potentially dangerous than Hexxat.

    That's particularly true since a distrustful evil character could always go "Meh, if I think the vampire's going to betray me I can just yank her cloak off when we're outside and have a laugh. I've got this under control."
  • I like the idea of Saving Clara as a DLC from the in-game store. I don't necessarily agree with some of the arguments being made about how killing Hexxat means there's 'nothing' for a good party. Although you can't currently save Clara, you can avenge her, which feels appropriate. As I said, though, I'd be fine with adding an option to save her life and have her as a fully developed NPC - just because more options are (almost) always better.
    Ayiekie
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Wayniac said:


    So could one circumvent the barrier by charming a team member and sending them through then? If we are holding firm to your argument, as long as we place them in a charmed state, it should suffice, right?

    That could arguably work with a higher-level spell like Domination. Charm and Dire Charm still allow the recipient to break the spell if they're ordered to do something that puts them at disproportionate risk, and approaching a glowing purple energy field sounds like it fits the bill.
  • DisgruntlerDisgruntler Member Posts: 100
    Ayiekie said:

    Again, I imagine evil parties (who are likely using the obviously addled Clara to get the treasure, and thus not overly concerned with her well-being) are likely to take a "what's done is done" attitude once they realise the opportunity to have a supernaturally powerful vampire at their disposal and in their debt is on offer. You just met Clara a few days ago at most, and she's not coherent or very powerful, so it's unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely) that an evil character has particularly strong feelings about her other than her being a useful tool, and Hexxat is obviously a far more useful tool.

    That's exactly it. It's in no way made clear that she joins up with the player or serves any of his needs. Until you give her the cloak and meet up with her in the coronet, you have no ingame idea of her status as a NPC.
    A vampire that just sucked a party member dry would usually get attacked on sight. Before the sucking could proceed to the sloppy stage. Surely experienced adventurers would attack a vampire fresh from the grave lunging at one of their allies out of pure reflex! Even evil bastards like Edwin or Dorn would have. Comes with being a competent adventurer.
    Imagine for a moment how many players would have fought Hexxat if a) Clara was still alive at the start of combat and b) Hexxat was called "vampire" until at a later point she introduced herself.

    Akihikobooinyoureyes
  • WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 132

    Wayniac said:


    So could one circumvent the barrier by charming a team member and sending them through then? If we are holding firm to your argument, as long as we place them in a charmed state, it should suffice, right?

    That could arguably work with a higher-level spell like Domination. Charm and Dire Charm still allow the recipient to break the spell if they're ordered to do something that puts them at disproportionate risk, and approaching a glowing purple energy field sounds like it fits the bill.
    It looks like we're almost reaching an agreement of sorts... so I ask... why can't we use Domination on a character and send them through instead, allowing us to kill Hexxat and save Clara?
    Sulla
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975
    edited November 2013


    That's exactly it. It's in no way made clear that she joins up with the player or serves any of his needs. Until you give her the cloak and meet up with her in the coronet, you have no ingame idea of her status as a NPC.
    A vampire that just sucked a party member dry would usually get attacked on sight. Before the sucking could proceed to the sloppy stage. Surely experienced adventurers would attack a vampire fresh from the grave lunging at one of their allies out of pure reflex! Even evil bastards like Edwin or Dorn would have. Comes with being a competent adventurer.

    It's up to you to interpret how your party would react, but in the scene, she comes out as a mist and kills Clara pretty much instantly, then begins talking reasonably to the PC (and knows their name). I feel that's enough to justify wary curiosity for most (not all) characters sufficient to put off an immediate attack. You can of course still attack her if you want.

    Edit: And I thought it was pretty clear from her initial conversation that she was willing to help you, though IC I wouldn't necessarily assume that meant adventuring with me. But for an evil character, or even some neutral characters, I'd usually roleplay being willing to weigh my options before deciding.
  • imajasjamimajasjam Member Posts: 59
    edited November 2013
    Is Hexxat going the way of the BG Trilogy of novels?

  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Wayniac said:



    It looks like we're almost reaching an agreement of sorts... so I ask... why can't we use Domination on a character and send them through instead, allowing us to kill Hexxat and save Clara?

    ...Because Overhaul didn't write that? It also may not work as we suspect?
  • markthesharkmarktheshark Member Posts: 57
    edited November 2013
    I thought the plot twist was tremendous. Bravo, team. Unfortunately for Hexxat, I was playing an Inquisitor and she is very dead. Still, I am already looking forward to my evil bard run through after this.

    That being said, I would love to see a Clara DLC because I'd like to have a thief choice for my good party other than Jan in the early game.
    Post edited by marktheshark on
    Ayiekie
  • TvrtkoSvrdlarTvrtkoSvrdlar Member Posts: 353
    edited November 2013
    @Schneidend
    Her STR score doesn't mean jack in a game where any melee fighter practically requires at least 1 arcane spellcaster to strip away enemy protections. A medium-level SCS mage will dismember her in under 30 seconds, while she herself can't do anything to touch them. But that's not important - what *is*, is the fact that her stats, inflated as they are, still don't help her because she's just a HUMAN THIEF with no special abilities like level drain. She's a tiny little kitten compared to the likes of Edwin (arcane bombardment) and Korgan (bloody myhem). Unkitted thieves are terrible, regardless of stats. And that goes double when you play with SCS. She cannot hold her own against enemies unless you give her 5,000 invisibility potions.

    And again, we come back to the start of my argument - Hexxat plays like a human thief. There's nothing *SPECIAL* about her, and her usefulness in combat is limited, at best. Why take a gimped pseudo-fighter when I can have the real thing (Sarevok, Korgan)? Add to that her bland and boring personality, and she pretty much excludes her own damn self (hehe, pun) from the roster.

    Take her along if you like - it doesn't change the fact that she sucks as a combatant.


    @Ayiekie
    No, honey, she's not a badass, because badasses don't miss 90% of the time due to a low number of attacks and crappy thac0, both of which gimp Hexxat into the ground (hehe, another pun). Hexx, like any other kitless thief, is a *terrible* melee fighter, which is why I keep saying that she's useless in combat due to not having anything close to resembling Valen's tactical dominance. Kitless thieves are a utility class, as I already mentioned in one of my previous posts. Hexx is no different; she's just a walking detrapment unit. I could give her the best gear, and any of the other joinable melee characters would dismember her in a matter of seconds.

    Which is basically the crux of the problem; Hexxat takes up a party slot. She's competing for it with individuals who can dish out vast amounts of AoE magical damage, or tank building-sized monsters like dragons, or rip through hordes of enemies like whirlwinds of destruction. Remind me again why I should give Hexx a spot on my team? Ignoring her laughably bad dialogues and bland personality, she just doesn't make the cut. Valen does. Valen deserves a slot, because Valen can hold her own in a fight. Hexxat can't.

    I understand that people may wish to bring her along because they find her interesting and enjoy the character (which I, myself, do not), and more power to you for shooting yourself in the foot and playing with a powerless 'vampire', but from a purely tactical perspective, she's useless. Kitless thieves are useless in combat. If she had Valen-esque powers, then that'd be another story, but since she doesn't, it's not, and no amount of tears from you or anyone else can or will change the fact that Hexxat is a liability in combat, especially when you're running mods like SCS.

    You may not care for that, and will willingly bring her along anyway, which is fine, do what you like, but please don't try to convince me that she's some kind of elite one-girl army. Valen would chunk Hexx about as fast as a fully-buffed Solaufein would murder Valen. Power levels and tactical supremacy are a tangible thing in BG2. And I've still to see a compelling argument from you stating otherwise.

    Also, you're dead serious about Twilight vamps being cooler than the age-old mythical ones? Really? Really? I mean, seriously? You're not trolling? You prefer human-sized sparkly disco balls to undead monstrosities that hunger for blood? Wow... just wow. And what the flying fuck is 'vampire superpowered baseball'?! I guess we should put that into BG2EE as well, right? Because who cares about the lore, we need more moping and glassy-eyed staring contests! You probably think werewolves are just big dogs too, huh?

    ::raaaaaaaaaaaage::

    Good to see that I haven't wasted my time debating a 16yo girl.

    I'm done with this thread. Enjoy your gimped version of Valen.

    Hopefully, someone at Overhaul will push for a Clara DLC.

    God knows they can't do worse than Hexxat.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190

    @Schneidend
    Her STR score doesn't mean jack in a game where any melee fighter practically requires at least 1 arcane spellcaster to strip away enemy protections. A medium-level SCS mage will dismember her in under 30 seconds, while she herself can't do anything to touch them. But that's not important - what *is*, is the fact that her stats, inflated as they are, still don't help her because she's just a HUMAN THIEF with no special abilities like level drain. She's a tiny little kitten compared to the likes of Edwin (arcane bombardment) and Korgan (bloody myhem). Unkitted thieves are terrible, regardless of stats. And that goes double when you play with SCS. She cannot hold her own against enemies unless you give her 5,000 invisibility potions

    I don't play with SCS, nor would I judge part of the game by a mod I happen to like if I did.

    A mage that gets backstabbed is probably dead, so his protections are meaningless.

    Neither Edwin nor Korgan can disarm traps or see through illusions. Edwin can turn invisible, but he's not doing as much arcane bombardment if you're wasting valuable second level spells on Invisibility when they could go toward Melf's Acid Arrow or Aganazzar's Scorcher.

    Her stats help her immensely, actually. Whereas without the Gauntlets of Ogre Power or a similar item, Jan or Imoen might miss a backstab, Hexxat virtually cannot miss unless she crit misses thanks to her high strength. Her high dexterity keeps her AC low and her utility at range high. I'm actually going to have a use for the Firetooth dagger that was borderline worthless in vanilla.

    Hexxat has special abilities. Her wolf summon makes for a nice distraction in a pinch and a free Domination is of course invaluable. Level drain is overpowered in the hands of players, so I'd actually be annoyed if she had it. That's why Energy Drain is a very high level spell and Gram the Sword of Grief is in the expansion.

    I don't need her to stand on her own, I need an evil, pure-class Thief. If I needed people to stand on their own, I wouldn't have a party.
    jackjackAcridSyphilis
  • imajasjamimajasjam Member Posts: 59
    edited November 2013
    When Hexxat gets reduced to zero hp does she die or turn into a gaseous form?
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 975


    @Ayiekie
    No, honey,

    Sorry, sweetiepookums, but I just don't think I'm into you that way.


    Valen would chunk Hexx about as fast as a fully-buffed Solaufein would murder Valen.

    I don't know what a "Valen" or a "Solaufein" are. I don't really care what they are either, I hasten to add before you're tempted to explain about their super-cool powerz.


    Power levels and tactical supremacy are a tangible thing in BG2. And I've still to see a compelling argument from you stating otherwise.

    I corrected your objectively wrong statement that a character with 20 strength, and I quote, "couldn't snap anyone's neck". Hexxat is stronger than any human who has ever lived; she could very easily snap a neck. I have not argued about power levels or tactical supremacy at all because I don't really care. The game isn't very hard; you can beat it with any combination of characters.


    Also, you're dead serious about Twilight vamps being cooler than the age-old mythical ones? Really?

    Age-old mythical vampires bear only the vaguest of resemblances to the pop culture D&D vampires you're enamoured of. And compared to your juvenile power fantasy vampires, vampires playing superhuman baseball are indeed much cooler, because that at least was entertaining and novel.

    Good to know, incidentally, that you have such strong opinions on Twilight despite clearly never having seen it (Vampire Baseball is in fact a much longer and more notable scene in the first movie than Sparkling Vampire was). I'm not a Twilight fan myself, but at least I actually watched it (courtesy Rifftrax, but still) before I judged it.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    imajasjam said:

    When Hexxat gets reduced to zero hp does she die or turn into a gaseous form?
    Gaseous form.


    JuliusBorisov
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 359
    Wow, I'm torn here.

    On the one hand, I'm a proud Twilight hater. On the other, I know Valen and Hexxat is no gimped Valen.

    Also, points for using Rifftrax.
  • TaevikTaevik Member Posts: 38
    I like the concept of Hexxat, but she doesn't really belong in my evil party. She seems awkward compared to the rest of the cast...and I just don't like managing the cloak.

    I really would have preferred a more "normal" sort of thief character. Before I head off to Spellhold, I'm probably just going to switch her for Jan.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Arcalian said:

    Wow, I'm torn here.

    On the one hand, I'm a proud Twilight hater. On the other, I know Valen and Hexxat is no gimped Valen.

    Also, points for using Rifftrax.

    I knew of the Valen mod's existence, but never downloaded her due to overpoweredness, so even if he were right, a "gimped Valen" is just a normal, useful character.

    Now I kinda want there to be an EE version so I can download and kill her at the first sign of disobedience. Her totally sweet level draining claws and hot evil vixen deadly chick badass super-neato attitude won't do her much good against a Blackguard and his demon-poisoned greatsword.
  • imajasjamimajasjam Member Posts: 59
    edited November 2013



    Now I kinda want there to be an EE version so I can download and kill her at the first sign of disobedience. Her totally sweet level draining claws and hot evil vixen deadly chick badass super-neato attitude won't do her much good against a Blackguard and his demon-poisoned greatsword.

    Just follow her around and pretend to say the activation word on Daystar's Sunray ability.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    imajasjam said:


    Just follow her around and pretend to say the activation word on Daystar's Sunray ability.

    I'd rather just kill her. But, I mean, she's SUCH a hot, sexy, super well-written MEGA BADASS, I'm not sure I can handle it any more. The sheer awesomeness of this needlessly violent, Stupid Evil Mary Sue NPC mod that is beloved by all might smite me and my boooorrriiing party that has Hexxat in it for my insolence.
    Ayiekiejackjack
  • imajasjamimajasjam Member Posts: 59
    edited November 2013

    imajasjam said:


    Just follow her around and pretend to say the activation word on Daystar's Sunray ability.

    I'd rather just kill her. But, I mean, she's SUCH a hot, sexy, super well-written MEGA BADASS, I'm not sure I can handle it any more. The sheer awesomeness of this needlessly violent, Stupid Evil Mary Sue NPC mod that is beloved by all might smite me and my boooorrriiing party that has Hexxat in it for my insolence.
    You lost me.

    EDIT: Oh you're talking about that other guy and his love of the Valen NPC mod.


    Schneidend
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 359
    ...ookay, I'm just gonna back away now.....
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