okay, fair enough, but what about all the other plot problems? Still doesn't and can't fit. So, I'm supposed to run around BG screaming, I WORSHIP ELISTRAE!! Doesn't matter if you ARE actually good, no one is going to see you that way. I'm not trying to be a troll, it just doesn't fit, unless if the entire story changed.
@Xavioria as a member of the "i don't want playable Drow group" xP, i'm not here defending playable Drows at all costs, but also i don't say it's impossible.
But we must keep in mind that to even evaluate the possibility, we need many variants:
- Soft the clauses of the copyright assignment between Atary and Beamdog, or the right of relativize them in certain circumstances. - Remake most of the scripts of the game to adapt them for a Drow race inserted. - Have in mind that many quests on the game would be lost (BG and BG2), what could be eased with some drow only or race specific quests that include Drows. - An alternative for chapter 6 on BG2 (this is not negotiable, serious).
EXAMPLES of medium or minor problems:
- Windspear Hills problem, cos i can't figure how Garren Windspear Hills would help a Drow, or even if he Help, how would the Radiant Heart with all their prejudice accept that their knights were killed in mistake by a Drow.
- Keldorn acceptance of a drow party leader
- enter in Naskhel and don't become the scapegoat of the iron shortage problem, cos we have Amn saying "it's Baldur's Gate to blame", we have Baldur's Gate saying "it's Amn to blame". A drow enter the city, what happen? Hey, look a Drow, i have a idea: It's the Drow to blame!!!
And remember, "Gorion's Ward" as you are, you don't become famous until AFTER you save Baldur's Gate.
Actually, at the start of Chapter 5 when you try to enter Baldur's Gate you do get asked if you were the one doing good deeds along the coast. So you do start getting famous before that.
However main char become infamous, after the death of 2 dukes and the leaders of Iron Throne fall on his/her head, and i simply don't see how a drow would have a chance to get free of a charge like this with the actual game script and plot.
@g314, the "don't want don't use" is already beaten, just look back the answers for this, cos at each 5 posts, someone that want drows used this argue (that's pretty weak).
But it's a good argument, and nobody had provided a constructive counter-argument.
1 - Yes, good constructive arguments have already benn presented, you can chose the ones you like in fact.
2 - Your comment about fairness with drows makes no sense, we don't have high elvens on BG, only elvens. They're a general race on Baldur's Gate. However even if we had High Elvens that would be pretty fair, as BG plot focused on the surface world. Also an adventure on underdark that only offer drow as elf option would be pretty fair too.
1 - Yes, good constructive arguments have already benn presented, you can chose the ones you like in fact.
Then care to quote them? I haven't seen them. Only answers along the lines of "that is not a valid argument" or "that has already been mentioned". I still haven't seen a single reason why someone playing a Drow would come as a disadvantage to someone else picking a more baseline race.
2 - Your comment about fairness with drows makes no sense, we don't have high elvens on BG, only elvens. They're a general race on Baldur's Gate. However even if we had High Elvens that would be pretty fair, as BG plot focused on the surface world. Also an adventure on underdark that only offer drow as elf option would be pretty fair too.
Now you're just nitpicking. High Elves are the default Elven race (though I forgot, the default is called Moon Elves on Faerun).
Still, you think it's ok for "good" elves to be in the game, but are absolutely against "evil" elves (Drow) being in the game.
However, when "good" planetouched (Aasimar) are suggested, you mention that it wouldn't be fair without the inclusion of "evil" planetouched (Tieflings).
So how come good elves could be included and evil elves barred, but for good planetouched to be included, evil planetouched would have to be included as well? By your logic, that makes no sense, whatsoever.
2 - Yes, is pretty fair to good elvens to be in the game as main chars and drows not. 1° high elvens aren't the default race, much less in Akhlata surrounds, a place so near of Suldanesselar, while the game didn't classified the elvens there but they're much more near wood elvens there than high elvens.
In fact on the wiki page of suldanessellar they classify the elves there as wild elves.
The race choices on BG are based on surface races, but for the point that you raised unlike Aasimar and Tiefling that are races without a homeplace, Drows ARE NATIVES FROM UNDERDARK.
BG has a defined plot line that make the game extremly hostile to drows, not because they're evils, as char name can be evil too, but because of the script of the game and the prohibition of modify original content.
For most races you want to add on Baldur's Gate, we would just need to add more content, however drows by nature would need a change on the entire game plot, cos they have a vital contribution on the main saga.
There's nothing related with being good or evil here. An Aasimar/Tiefling/Cambion are on the same level cos BG don't involve their species on the main saga as a society.
Ok, let's go to the point 1 now:
1 - in this page one of my posts list 4 main reasons that prevents drow races as main char, i gave 3 medium problems examples also on the same post.
@Xavioria raised an argue on the last page that @thantalas replied, that finsh with the agreement of until act 5 in BG main char is not a famous person.
other posts argue about the restrictions of some quests for a drow main char and there others also, that you can easly find by searching on the previous pages of this thread and the Add Drow (Dark Elf) Race thread.
BG has a defined plot line that make the game extremly hostile to drows, not because they're evils, as char name can be evil too, but because of the script of the game and the prohibition of modify original content.
For most races you want to add on Baldur's Gate, we would just need to add more content, however drows by nature would need a change on the entire game plot, cos they have a vital contribution on the main saga.
Personally I disagree with this. We already have Viconia as an example of how CHARNAME could be a Drow and it wouldn't affect the game much.
Personally I disagree with this. We already have Viconia as an example of how CHARNAME could be a Drow and it wouldn't affect the game much.
Viconia was wanted dead by the Flaming Fist in BG1 and was nearly burnt alive in BG2. The only way she survived prior to meeting the protagonist was to hide in her hood and keep a low profile, and that failed in both games. Once she joins the protagonist we can surmise that she hides among the group, and even then it's a hit to his reputation.
In other words Viconia could never survive by herself as drow, and that is a very good reason why the protagonist could not be one. He has to speak and fend for himself.
Also so many things would need rewriting. How would Keldorn willingly join you, when he cannot stand Viconia as your ally? How would Ajantis? How would Gorion send you to meet an elf (Jaheira) when elves and drow hate each other above all? How would most people not notice that you are drow and trust you with their demands and rewards?
@Zeckul The only one I could possibly see working is the one with Gorion. Presumably, he was corresponding with Jaheira and Khalid, since they are supposed to be his friends. He could have warned them that CHARNAME is a drow, but raised to be good, and they would be expecting it. However, since most of the Sword Coast doesn't know Gorion from Adam (so to speak), that is the only one that I could see making it into the game- and I would expect Jaheira to make a comment about it. ("So, you're a Drow. Don't expect everyone to be as accepting of you as Khalid and I are. Your people are pretty much hated everywhere.")
Viconia was wanted dead by the Flaming Fist in BG1 and was nearly burnt alive in BG2. The only way she survived prior to meeting the protagonist was to hide in her hood and keep a low profile, and that failed in both games. Once she joins the protagonist we can surmise that she hides among the group, and even then it's a hit to his reputation.
And the same could be said of CHARNAME. As soon as you start the game you can immediately get Imoen after all.
Basically, I really don't see it as much of a problem, and there is evidence both in the BG games and in FR lore that you can be a drow and not get killed on sight.
2 - Yes, is pretty fair to good elvens to be in the game as main chars and drows not. 1° high elvens aren't the default race, much less in Akhlata surrounds, a place so near of Suldanesselar, while the game didn't classified the elvens there but they're much more near wood elvens there than high elvens.
In fact on the wiki page of suldanessellar they classify the elves there as wild elves.
The race choices on BG are based on surface races, but for the point that you raised unlike Aasimar and Tiefling that are races without a homeplace, Drows ARE NATIVES FROM UNDERDARK.
BG has a defined plot line that make the game extremly hostile to drows, not because they're evils, as char name can be evil too, but because of the script of the game and the prohibition of modify original content.
For most races you want to add on Baldur's Gate, we would just need to add more content, however drows by nature would need a change on the entire game plot, cos they have a vital contribution on the main saga.
There's nothing related with being good or evil here. An Aasimar/Tiefling/Cambion are on the same level cos BG don't involve their species on the main saga as a society.
It doesn't matter that they're high elves/wild elves/moon elves/whatever they are. (Since unnamed it's normally proper to assume they're the "default" elves, which would normally be high elves, but moon elves in the case of Faerun.)
Drows being from the Underdark is not the big problem here. Dwarves also hail from the underdark, but I haven't heard you complain about them. The problem is that drow are considered evil, and that they have features easily marking them as drow, so they are also easily marked as evil creatures (even if they are not evil).
Tieflings don't come from an evil race, they are offspring of evil deities themselves! Seriously, people that would worry about drow would worry about tieflings. And most tieflings have at least some markings on their face or body that would tell about their lineage. Therefor, tieflings should face at least the same prejudice as drow, if not more.
1 - in this page one of my posts list 4 main reasons that prevents drow races as main char, i gave 3 medium problems examples also on the same post.
@Xavioria raised an argue on the last page that @thantalas replied, that finsh with the agreement of until act 5 in BG main char is not a famous person.
other posts argue about the restrictions of some quests for a drow main char and there others also, that you can easly find by searching on the previous pages of this thread and the Add Drow (Dark Elf) Race thread.
There are obviously some loopholes about playing a drow. I admitted to that myself as well, and for the same reasons I would never play a drow myself in BG, because I personally don't find it fitting.
However, that was not the question at hand here. The question at hand is: "Are you annoyed if someone else is playing BG as a drow?"
If the feature was there, you could simply choose to ignore it by picking any race other than drow to play, and you wouldn't be in the least affected. Sure, others might actually go for the drow, but considering this is a singleplayer (or at most a multiplayer game with friends), why would it bother you if someone else unrelated to you would play a drow?
Even though I voted against player char drow in the vote.. I would be for it, if they could change the content to take the race into consideration. But as far as i have understood the contract they have.. They cant make huge changes like that in the original content..
So if they could do it right, I would be all for it.. but if they cant, then it would, at least for me, ruin more than it would enhance the game experience.
@Thels your arguement is a decent one. Why push your own beliefs on other people if it doesn't hurt anyone. The conversation is more about the opinion on whether or not the PC being a drow would be a good idea or a bad idea, and so people add in their two cents. Your arguement then, becomes a deviation, because all it does is kill the opinions that were asked for.
Being a Drow in BG2 isn't much of a problem, because you're basically a new Drizzt Do'Urden. A drow, but you proved yourself, everyone would know of the Drow who saved Baldur's Gate and prevented a war with Amn. The big issue here, is how you would lead UP to that fame, because it can't POSSIBLY be the same story, simply because you're drow.
Tieflings are not NECESSARILY children of evil deities themselves, because if that WERE the case, then you would be Tiefling just by being a Bhaalspawn, which you're not. Tiefling is demonic power touching your ancestry SOMEWHERE, it's usually just a spark of it. Not only that, but Tieflings (certain ones) would be able to hide their features MUCH better than a drow could.
@Tanthalas Why was the Flaming Fist in the first game hunting Viconia? Because she was drow. That's it. And if he killed a drow on the surface, it was implied that he would have been rewarded. I don't see the evidence you speak of that says that you wouldn't get killed on sight for being drow, but I've listed one piece of evidence (among a few) that shows why you would.
and what about when Gorion first gets confronted by Ulraunt for trying to enter Candlekeep? I doubt that Gorion would have won THAT fight. And even if he did, what do you think would happen to YOU while you grew up in candlekeep?
Lastly, and this is personally my opinion, I would LOVE to play a drow. it's not that I think it is not worth playing or anything like that. I just think that it wouldn't be integrated well, and in order to integrate it to the point that it's seemless, the entirety of the story would have to shift, change and become and totally different game.
@Thels Dwarves are not an Underdark race. They are a surface race that tends to live inside mountains and hills. The only Underdark Dwarven race are the Svirfneblin, and they *are* evil. Tieflings aren't the offspring of evil gods, but Demons and Devils (or have such in their ancestry) The terms "Demon" and "Devil" got retconned into Tanar'ri and Ba'atezu, but essentially, that's what they are. (They got retconned because of the 'D&D leads to devil worship' thing that came out of the early 80's, so they wanted to remove the literal demons and devils from the campaign, even though they were just things to fight in both versions of the game.)
@Thels Dwarves are not an Underdark race. They are a surface race that tends to live inside mountains and hills. The only Underdark Dwarven race are the Svirfneblin, and they *are* evil. Tieflings aren't the offspring of evil gods, but Demons and Devils (or have such in their ancestry) The terms "Demon" and "Devil" got retconned into Tanar'ri and Ba'atezu, but essentially, that's what they are. (They got retconned because of the 'D&D leads to devil worship' thing that came out of the early 80's, so they wanted to remove the literal demons and devils from the campaign, even though they were just things to fight in both versions of the game.)
@LadyRhian: I guess you mean Duergar, as Svirfneblin are actually Gnomes, and neutral, not evil. Yet a lot of Dwarves originate and live under the ground (They don't get Stonecunning and Darkvision just because it looks funny). The Underdark contains more than just those staple evil races.
Aasimar and Tieflings are described has having celestial and fiendish blood in their heritage. Obviously they wouldn't be direct children of deities (that would make them Half-Celestials or Half-Fiends, not Planetouched), but rather a couple of generations away at least. Though you are right, it doesn't specify that deities are the only source. Angels and Demons/Devils would also suffice.
I know about Tanar'ri and Ba'atezu now. I didn't really know about them back when I actually played 2nd edition. And yeah, there was a lot of superstition about D&D in the 80s/90s. :P
@Xavioria I think the evidence is Viconia herself. Once she's part of the party she no longer gets attacked for being a Drow. I'm also not convinced that Ulraunt would be a problem. Growing up in Candlekeep wouldn't be much of a problem honestly. A Drow growing in Candlekeep might face some prejudice, but a good Drow would be treated well inside Candlekeep since people have known him since he was little. Hell, its even possible that people would have heard of the good Drow being raised in Candlekeep.
As for your last point, my opinion is that sometimes gameplay must take precedence over lore consistency. If Drow were added it would be in a patch after BGEE was released, and so I wouldn't care if they didn't change a single line of text to account for them in the story.
@LadyRhian How could you call Svirfneblin Dwarves? They're Gnomes.
The Duergar are the evil Underdark Dwarves. Though I remember reading somewhere that Duergar aren't really Dwarves, but it sounded stupid to me.
@Thels Dwarves are not an Underdark race. They are a surface race that tends to live inside mountains and hills. The only Underdark Dwarven race are the Svirfneblin, and they *are* evil. Tieflings aren't the offspring of evil gods, but Demons and Devils (or have such in their ancestry) The terms "Demon" and "Devil" got retconned into Tanar'ri and Ba'atezu, but essentially, that's what they are. (They got retconned because of the 'D&D leads to devil worship' thing that came out of the early 80's, so they wanted to remove the literal demons and devils from the campaign, even though they were just things to fight in both versions of the game.)
Being the dwarf freak that I am.. @LadyRhian .. The Svirfneblin are not dwarfs.. they are gnomes, deep gnones to be precise
Ahh I see that @thels already beat me to that fact.
Ahh yes.. the good old "D&D lead to devilworship and bad teeth!!"
Always worth a laugh what religious fanatics cook up to be able to demonize other people..
There were a far out priest that had his followers burn pokemon card some years back.. reason? Well clearly "pokemon" were a way to say "Pocket Demon" and meant as a tool to lure young kids to satan.. The fact that pokemon is japanese did not really seem to bother him...
@Thels Yes, Epic fail on my part. :P But no, the Underdark is, as I understand it, some miles below the ground. There's an "Upper Underdark" and a "Middle Underdark" and then there is another layer beneath that as well called the "Lower Underdark". From "Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark", it states that the Upper Underdark lies anything up to three miles underground, The Middle Underdark is between 3 and 7 miles down, and the Lower Underdark extends from 7 miles down to much, much deeper. Most Dwarves are in the Upper Underdark, but the Middle Underdark is home to Duergar, Derro (another evil Dwarf race) and Urdunnirin, a neutral race of Dwarves with Gray skin and better than usual mining capabilities, said to be granted to them by their God, Dumathoin.
Viconia was wanted dead by the Flaming Fist in BG1 and was nearly burnt alive in BG2. The only way she survived prior to meeting the protagonist was to hide in her hood and keep a low profile, and that failed in both games. Once she joins the protagonist we can surmise that she hides among the group, and even then it's a hit to his reputation.
And the same could be said of CHARNAME. As soon as you start the game you can immediately get Imoen after all.
So the protagonist would be hiding behind his companions for the entirety of the game? That makes him hardly a protagonist. My point is that Viconia can get by in the party because she doesn't have to speak for herself; the protagonist does, as the protagonist. Also I think you brush off the inconsistensies with other party members and NPCs too easily. There are a LOT of people in the series that wouldn't react the same way at all towards the protagonist if he was drow.
The trade-off is coherence/realism vs fun/convenience, and IMO the problems far outweigh the benefits here. If this was Icewind Dale I wouldn't mind at all, but BG is supposed to make sense.
The problem with this pool, is that exist a underlying manipulation behind the curtains. That's happen cos the person that make this thread is someone that want a playable drow at any cost.
It's wrong to evaluate:
- want playable Drow - I don't want playable Drow
That's because i want a playable drow also, and many other ppl here want a playable drow, too. Unfortunally the thread is far from it's begin, that in fact happened in another topic, as this pool is just a continuation of "Add Drow (Dark Elf) Race".
90% of the ppl here want a playable drow, however who vote "I don't want playable Drow" just mean that i don't want a playable drow if the game is not fixed to receive it in the proper manner, what we don't want, is a single option of "drow" on the race screen, and no consequences through the game.
What is in discussion here is:
- i want a official drow no make what (want playable Drow) - i only want drow or any other race with a proper plot adaptation (I don't want playable Drow)
Can Beamdog change the original content to make a drow an accetable race for bhaalspawn saga? Well if a pool called:
"request to the atari for authorizing changes in favor of the implementation of drow"
I'm pretty sure that 95% of the ppl on the forum gonna support it, and Beamdog could present the pool (with more than 1000 votes at least) for Atari as an argument, asking aauthorization to change the game to implement a drow race.
If that's gonna work or not i don't know, but i prefer to see a unnoficial mod adding drows that would be unbinded by Atari and would change the entire game if needed to make a main char drow acceptable, than an official stupid single option of click on a drow choice while creating my character.
If Atari doesn't authorize the changes of the game for a drow. this unnoficial mod could... even maybe be supported by the devs (personally, for the sake of loving BG, of course), that would... well clean the mod bugs using the source code for example (why not ), making... any change we need and fuck the copyrights of no change, cos it's unnoficial, !
I believe that this post speaks in the name of every person that voted "don't want playable Drow", but maybe i'm wrong, but i followed this thread from the very start, including the "Add Drow (Dark Elf) Race" thread, so i'm risking this assumption.
@Thels Yes, Epic fail on my part. :P But no, the Underdark is, as I understand it, some miles below the ground. There's an "Upper Underdark" and a "Middle Underdark" and then there is another layer beneath that as well called the "Lower Underdark". From "Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark", it states that the Upper Underdark lies anything up to three miles underground, The Middle Underdark is between 3 and 7 miles down, and the Lower Underdark extends from 7 miles down to much, much deeper. Most Dwarves are in the Upper Underdark, but the Middle Underdark is home to Duergar, Derro (another evil Dwarf race) and Urdunnirin, a neutral race of Dwarves with Gray skin and better than usual mining capabilities, said to be granted to them by their God, Dumathoin.
Edited to fix a spelling error.
So you're basically saying yourself they're from the underdark.
True, it's a totally different region from the underdark, but then again, not every single peasant and merchant studies the underdark in great length, so it's all "from under the ground" to them.
And no, I'm not saying they should be suspicious and wary of dwarves all of a sudden. Merely saying that "coming from the underdark" shouldn't be motivation enough.
Though the drow are known for more than "coming from the underdark". They're launching raiding parties from there, plundering and sacking villages and small towns. Dwarves don't do that (save for the Duergar).
There are obvious reasons why playing a Drow would breach the suspension of disbelief. In my humble opinion, playing a Tiefling would break the same suspension of disbelief, while Aasimar would not. I see no reason that the addition of Aasimar would also require the addition of Tieflings, especially not if the addition of Tieflings would cause problems that the addition of Aasimar would not.
But then, I don't mind if they add any or all of these options, and leave it up to the player themselves if they think playing that race would break the suspension of disbelief. I wouldn't play a Drow or Tiefling (I'd love to play an Aasimar), but if someone else would love to play a Drow, despite the possible flaws in storyline, I really don't see the reason to take away their fun.
@Tanthalas I COULD see your point about a good drow in candlekeep becoming something like "bragging rights." But that means limiting the fact that you're drow now HAS to be a good drow. This would kill it for certain people who don't want to be a good drow. If that drow in question grew up and stayed in his evil ways, I don't doubt that the people of candlekeep would burn or hang that delicious elf.
Comments
But we must keep in mind that to even evaluate the possibility, we need many variants:
- Soft the clauses of the copyright assignment between Atary and Beamdog, or the right of relativize them in certain circumstances.
- Remake most of the scripts of the game to adapt them for a Drow race inserted.
- Have in mind that many quests on the game would be lost (BG and BG2), what could be eased with some drow only or race specific quests that include Drows.
- An alternative for chapter 6 on BG2 (this is not negotiable, serious).
EXAMPLES of medium or minor problems:
- Windspear Hills problem, cos i can't figure how Garren Windspear Hills would help a Drow, or even if he Help, how would the Radiant Heart with all their prejudice accept that their knights were killed in mistake by a Drow.
- Keldorn acceptance of a drow party leader
- enter in Naskhel and don't become the scapegoat of the iron shortage problem, cos we have Amn saying "it's Baldur's Gate to blame", we have Baldur's Gate saying "it's Amn to blame". A drow enter the city, what happen? Hey, look a Drow, i have a idea: It's the Drow to blame!!!
1 - Yes, good constructive arguments have already benn presented, you can chose the ones you like in fact.
2 - Your comment about fairness with drows makes no sense, we don't have high elvens on BG, only elvens. They're a general race on Baldur's Gate. However even if we had High Elvens that would be pretty fair, as BG plot focused on the surface world. Also an adventure on underdark that only offer drow as elf option would be pretty fair too.
Still, you think it's ok for "good" elves to be in the game, but are absolutely against "evil" elves (Drow) being in the game.
However, when "good" planetouched (Aasimar) are suggested, you mention that it wouldn't be fair without the inclusion of "evil" planetouched (Tieflings).
So how come good elves could be included and evil elves barred, but for good planetouched to be included, evil planetouched would have to be included as well? By your logic, that makes no sense, whatsoever.
I also think there should be the option 'I probably wouldn't care for the option of playing Drow'.
2 - Yes, is pretty fair to good elvens to be in the game as main chars and drows not. 1° high elvens aren't the default race, much less in Akhlata surrounds, a place so near of Suldanesselar, while the game didn't classified the elvens there but they're much more near wood elvens there than high elvens.
In fact on the wiki page of suldanessellar they classify the elves there as wild elves.
The race choices on BG are based on surface races, but for the point that you raised unlike Aasimar and Tiefling that are races without a homeplace, Drows ARE NATIVES FROM UNDERDARK.
BG has a defined plot line that make the game extremly hostile to drows, not because they're evils, as char name can be evil too, but because of the script of the game and the prohibition of modify original content.
For most races you want to add on Baldur's Gate, we would just need to add more content, however drows by nature would need a change on the entire game plot, cos they have a vital contribution on the main saga.
There's nothing related with being good or evil here. An Aasimar/Tiefling/Cambion are on the same level cos BG don't involve their species on the main saga as a society.
Ok, let's go to the point 1 now:
1 - in this page one of my posts list 4 main reasons that prevents drow races as main char, i gave 3 medium problems examples also on the same post.
@Xavioria raised an argue on the last page that @thantalas replied, that finsh with the agreement of until act 5 in BG main char is not a famous person.
other posts argue about the restrictions of some quests for a drow main char and there others also, that you can easly find by searching on the previous pages of this thread and the Add Drow (Dark Elf) Race thread.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/201/add-drow-dark-elf-race#latest
So let's not be lazy and make the searchs
In other words Viconia could never survive by herself as drow, and that is a very good reason why the protagonist could not be one. He has to speak and fend for himself.
Also so many things would need rewriting. How would Keldorn willingly join you, when he cannot stand Viconia as your ally? How would Ajantis? How would Gorion send you to meet an elf (Jaheira) when elves and drow hate each other above all? How would most people not notice that you are drow and trust you with their demands and rewards?
Basically, I really don't see it as much of a problem, and there is evidence both in the BG games and in FR lore that you can be a drow and not get killed on sight.
Drows being from the Underdark is not the big problem here. Dwarves also hail from the underdark, but I haven't heard you complain about them. The problem is that drow are considered evil, and that they have features easily marking them as drow, so they are also easily marked as evil creatures (even if they are not evil).
Tieflings don't come from an evil race, they are offspring of evil deities themselves! Seriously, people that would worry about drow would worry about tieflings. And most tieflings have at least some markings on their face or body that would tell about their lineage. Therefor, tieflings should face at least the same prejudice as drow, if not more.
There are obviously some loopholes about playing a drow. I admitted to that myself as well, and for the same reasons I would never play a drow myself in BG, because I personally don't find it fitting.
However, that was not the question at hand here. The question at hand is: "Are you annoyed if someone else is playing BG as a drow?"
If the feature was there, you could simply choose to ignore it by picking any race other than drow to play, and you wouldn't be in the least affected. Sure, others might actually go for the drow, but considering this is a singleplayer (or at most a multiplayer game with friends), why would it bother you if someone else unrelated to you would play a drow?
So if they could do it right, I would be all for it.. but if they cant, then it would, at least for me, ruin more than it would enhance the game experience.
Being a Drow in BG2 isn't much of a problem, because you're basically a new Drizzt Do'Urden. A drow, but you proved yourself, everyone would know of the Drow who saved Baldur's Gate and prevented a war with Amn. The big issue here, is how you would lead UP to that fame, because it can't POSSIBLY be the same story, simply because you're drow.
Tieflings are not NECESSARILY children of evil deities themselves, because if that WERE the case, then you would be Tiefling just by being a Bhaalspawn, which you're not. Tiefling is demonic power touching your ancestry SOMEWHERE, it's usually just a spark of it. Not only that, but Tieflings (certain ones) would be able to hide their features MUCH better than a drow could.
@Tanthalas Why was the Flaming Fist in the first game hunting Viconia? Because she was drow. That's it. And if he killed a drow on the surface, it was implied that he would have been rewarded. I don't see the evidence you speak of that says that you wouldn't get killed on sight for being drow, but I've listed one piece of evidence (among a few) that shows why you would.
and what about when Gorion first gets confronted by Ulraunt for trying to enter Candlekeep? I doubt that Gorion would have won THAT fight. And even if he did, what do you think would happen to YOU while you grew up in candlekeep?
Lastly, and this is personally my opinion, I would LOVE to play a drow. it's not that I think it is not worth playing or anything like that. I just think that it wouldn't be integrated well, and in order to integrate it to the point that it's seemless, the entirety of the story would have to shift, change and become and totally different game.
Aasimar and Tieflings are described has having celestial and fiendish blood in their heritage. Obviously they wouldn't be direct children of deities (that would make them Half-Celestials or Half-Fiends, not Planetouched), but rather a couple of generations away at least. Though you are right, it doesn't specify that deities are the only source. Angels and Demons/Devils would also suffice.
I know about Tanar'ri and Ba'atezu now. I didn't really know about them back when I actually played 2nd edition.
I think the evidence is Viconia herself. Once she's part of the party she no longer gets attacked for being a Drow. I'm also not convinced that Ulraunt would be a problem. Growing up in Candlekeep wouldn't be much of a problem honestly. A Drow growing in Candlekeep might face some prejudice, but a good Drow would be treated well inside Candlekeep since people have known him since he was little. Hell, its even possible that people would have heard of the good Drow being raised in Candlekeep.
As for your last point, my opinion is that sometimes gameplay must take precedence over lore consistency. If Drow were added it would be in a patch after BGEE was released, and so I wouldn't care if they didn't change a single line of text to account for them in the story.
@LadyRhian
How could you call Svirfneblin Dwarves?
They're Gnomes.
The Duergar are the evil Underdark Dwarves. Though I remember reading somewhere that Duergar aren't really Dwarves, but it sounded stupid to me.
Ahh I see that @thels already beat me to that fact.
Ahh yes.. the good old "D&D lead to devilworship and bad teeth!!"
Always worth a laugh what religious fanatics cook up to be able to demonize other people..
There were a far out priest that had his followers burn pokemon card some years back.. reason? Well clearly "pokemon" were a way to say "Pocket Demon" and meant as a tool to lure young kids to satan.. The fact that pokemon is japanese did not really seem to bother him...
Edited to fix a spelling error.
The trade-off is coherence/realism vs fun/convenience, and IMO the problems far outweigh the benefits here. If this was Icewind Dale I wouldn't mind at all, but BG is supposed to make sense.
It's wrong to evaluate:
- want playable Drow
- I don't want playable Drow
That's because i want a playable drow also, and many other ppl here want a playable drow, too. Unfortunally the thread is far from it's begin, that in fact happened in another topic, as this pool is just a continuation of "Add Drow (Dark Elf) Race".
90% of the ppl here want a playable drow, however who vote "I don't want playable Drow" just mean that i don't want a playable drow if the game is not fixed to receive it in the proper manner, what we don't want, is a single option of "drow" on the race screen, and no consequences through the game.
What is in discussion here is:
- i want a official drow no make what (want playable Drow)
- i only want drow or any other race with a proper plot adaptation (I don't want playable Drow)
Can Beamdog change the original content to make a drow an accetable race for bhaalspawn saga? Well if a pool called:
"request to the atari for authorizing changes in favor of the implementation of drow"
I'm pretty sure that 95% of the ppl on the forum gonna support it, and Beamdog could present the pool (with more than 1000 votes at least) for Atari as an argument, asking aauthorization to change the game to implement a drow race.
If that's gonna work or not i don't know, but i prefer to see a unnoficial mod adding drows that would be unbinded by Atari and would change the entire game if needed to make a main char drow acceptable, than an official stupid single option of click on a drow choice while creating my character.
If Atari doesn't authorize the changes of the game for a drow. this unnoficial mod could... even maybe be supported by the devs (personally, for the sake of loving BG, of course), that would... well clean the mod bugs using the source code for example (why not
I believe that this post speaks in the name of every person that voted "don't want playable Drow", but maybe i'm wrong, but i followed this thread from the very start, including the "Add Drow (Dark Elf) Race" thread, so i'm risking this assumption.
True, it's a totally different region from the underdark, but then again, not every single peasant and merchant studies the underdark in great length, so it's all "from under the ground" to them.
And no, I'm not saying they should be suspicious and wary of dwarves all of a sudden. Merely saying that "coming from the underdark" shouldn't be motivation enough.
Though the drow are known for more than "coming from the underdark". They're launching raiding parties from there, plundering and sacking villages and small towns. Dwarves don't do that (save for the Duergar).
There are obvious reasons why playing a Drow would breach the suspension of disbelief. In my humble opinion, playing a Tiefling would break the same suspension of disbelief, while Aasimar would not. I see no reason that the addition of Aasimar would also require the addition of Tieflings, especially not if the addition of Tieflings would cause problems that the addition of Aasimar would not.
But then, I don't mind if they add any or all of these options, and leave it up to the player themselves if they think playing that race would break the suspension of disbelief. I wouldn't play a Drow or Tiefling (I'd love to play an Aasimar), but if someone else would love to play a Drow, despite the possible flaws in storyline, I really don't see the reason to take away their fun.
And don't kid yourself, Drow are sexy as hell