Would be interesting to play as a drow in the game however problem would be the restraints placed on the game and the fact you are a drow mean a lot of people would want you dead during the game.
I don't think sub races and new races (such as Aasimar and Tiefling) would be that big of an issue. The subrace problem isn't the biggest problem with drow being implemented into the game. It's the entirety of drow in and of itself. If all you want is to look like drow, you can pretty much do that anyway, why ask for the button if you'll be playing drow in the way you've described?
I personally want to try out drow as well, I always have. No one here is saying "No, being drow is a bad idea!" The ones who don't want playable drow are saying that it wouldn't make any sense unless if the game were balanced to support it.
And a drow growing up in candlekeep wouldn't necessarily be evil. THAT is pretty much as dependant as it is with other races.
I personally want to try out drow as well, I always have. No one here is saying "No, being drow is a bad idea!" The ones who don't want playable drow are saying that it wouldn't make any sense unless if the game were balanced to support it.
Pretty much yeah, its not like people are asking to be Half-Celestial/Half-Drow/Half-Dragonkin/Half-Dabus.
Being a drow is perfectly reasonable, I myself only oppose it because the devs probably won't be able to fully support that choice, which is a much more impacting racial choice than any other (AFAIK). Simply adding drow with a dark elven sprite a adequate magical resistance would sound like a unambitious mod.
And in that case, I think a nice compromise would be if the devs made new races easily moddable (if they already aren't).
I have to confess I haven't read all nine pages of comments on this so I may be making a point that has been made already (or missing the point entirely) but I really can't see a problem with playing a drow. The player character is, by definition, an exceptional character - as exceptional as Drizzt by the end of the game - so why shouldn't they be a drow?
Child of bhaal is not a nice thing if you played all the game, you're just cannon meat if you know... What make main char exceptional is the fact he's an exception for the prophecy. Yet being a children of Bhaal by itself don't give the character anything more in matter of powers, you need to channel the essence for that, and this require focus and experience. Just take a look at all the ordinary children of Bhaal in Saradush.
Child of bhaal is not a nice thing if you played all the game,
I didn't say it was a nice thing, I just said it was out of the ordinary. And if Viconia can be an NPC I don't see why my player character can't be a drow. I'm sure if an abandoned drow child had been left in a basket on the doorstep of Candlekeep then Gorion would have taken them in and made them his ward.
The player character is, by definition, an exceptional character
Not at the beginning of the series (the vast majority of Baldur's Gate 1) and that never meant Charname is a exception to every rule.
You are a child of Bhaal right from the start. I know he put it about a bit but being the offspring of a god is still pretty exceptional in my book.
Remember that the issue of being a drow or not is in your relationship with the general society. Being a child of Bhaal could shape that relationship if either, from the start, the general public is in the know and/or you already have the power that your heritage implies.
Needless to say, you're level 1. You can't impose yourself on half of the Realms from the beginning. There's even the possibility you'll run from the wildlife - especially if Baldur's Gate 1 walking speeds are restored and poor you pick the mage class.
Furthermore, very few people actually know what you are. Even you don't.
So far, nothing here can salvage your PC drow from entering in conflict with the public because of his appearance. But then, let's say everyone already knew Charname is a child of \o/MURDER\o/ - well that'd make matters worse for the most part.
And we're back to the beginning - being a drow is just a matter of changing the color pallete and adding racial traits, its also a invitation to the ire of the common people wether you're actually evil or not. And as far as we know, the developers can't really do much to simulate that.
Ideas are 1) A hefty reputation penalty at the beginning, forcing Charname to work his way out of his parent race's reputation (like, I suppose, Drizzt and similar drows?), though one that shouldn't enter effect until after you leave Candlekeep and 2) Whatever encounters that Viconia suffers from being a drow are altered so that being a drow yourself has some added consequence: an example would be that when you first meet Viconia, you don't have the option to let the flaming fist soldiers kill her and move on with your life - they will come for you too.
I, myself, would rather more. Indeed, taking Viconia with you should, by itself, have some more consequences. But if the above was implemented, then I think it is good enough. If not even the above is implemented, then its best left for mods.
@Permidion_Stark i'm really tired of repeat the same arguments... to answer your reply: Don't take in fact the past, Gorion could take a umber hulk for all that i care, the problem is on the consistency of the saga, not on the background.
You make a good argument but I think many of these things could be solved reasonably easily. There could be a reputation cap on any party with a drow PC, which would mean that goods in stores would be more expensive. You could make it so that most of the inns won't allow them to sleep there so they would be forced to rest outside and take their chances with wandering monsters. And instead of having the Flaming First spawn as they do with really low rep characters you could have 'villagers' spawning in certain areas to drive the drow away. (Possibly bandit figures could double as villagers for this purpose?)
You make a good argument but I think many of these things could be solved reasonably easily. There could be a reputation cap on any party with a drow PC, which would mean that goods in stores would be more expensive. You could make it so that most of the inns won't allow them to sleep there so they would be forced to rest outside and take their chances with wandering monsters. And instead of having the Flaming First spawn as they do with really low rep characters you could have 'villagers' spawning in certain areas to drive the drow away. (Possibly bandit figures could double as villagers for this purpose?)
Indeed, far from me to imply that a 'true' implementation of the drow character is beyond the dev's skill and creativity. After all this is a relatively minor issue, I suppose. However, how far can they alter the game's core experience? Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately if you consider other issues), there's a leash on them.
Dude, drow is much more than just status on the table:
+2 int, cha, dex / -2 con. 11%+class level magic resistance (but this is in D&D 3.5, in AD&D drow resistance is higher). Dancing light, dark vision, darkness and faerie fire as innate spell abilities. +2 save vs enchantment effects (in 3.5 is +2 to will).
Drow lose a lot of that being on the surface. At least when BG is set. That's why Drizzt no longer has those abilities but modern surface drow do.
While I don't really want drow if they are included. Then other sub races should be included from the start also.
Ummm even in the most recent book Drizzt still has most of those.
Stats won't be affected by him moving to the surface. He can still cast darkness and faerie fire, and in previous novels he's noted his thanks for his innate spell resistance. What you neglected to mention is that drow are blinded by light.
Dude, drow is much more than just status on the table:
+2 int, cha, dex / -2 con. 11%+class level magic resistance (but this is in D&D 3.5, in AD&D drow resistance is higher). Dancing light, dark vision, darkness and faerie fire as innate spell abilities. +2 save vs enchantment effects (in 3.5 is +2 to will).
Drow lose a lot of that being on the surface. At least when BG is set. That's why Drizzt no longer has those abilities but modern surface drow do.
While I don't really want drow if they are included. Then other sub races should be included from the start also.
Ummm even in the most recent book Drizzt still has most of those.
Stats won't be affected by him moving to the surface. He can still cast darkness and faerie fire, and in previous novels he's noted his thanks for his innate spell resistance. What you neglected to mention is that drow are blinded by light.
Yeah he does thanks to the actions of Liriel Baenre, and the change of rules for Drow in third edition Dritzz gained back his ability by staying a while in underdark, and the fact that the drow no longer osse them in third edition.... The game take place in second
Dude, drow is much more than just status on the table:
+2 int, cha, dex / -2 con. 11%+class level magic resistance (but this is in D&D 3.5, in AD&D drow resistance is higher). Dancing light, dark vision, darkness and faerie fire as innate spell abilities. +2 save vs enchantment effects (in 3.5 is +2 to will).
Drow lose a lot of that being on the surface. At least when BG is set. That's why Drizzt no longer has those abilities but modern surface drow do.
While I don't really want drow if they are included. Then other sub races should be included from the start also.
Ummm even in the most recent book Drizzt still has most of those.
Stats won't be affected by him moving to the surface. He can still cast darkness and faerie fire, and in previous novels he's noted his thanks for his innate spell resistance. What you neglected to mention is that drow are blinded by light.
Yeah he does thanks to the actions of Liriel Baenre, and the change of rules for Drow in third edition Dritzz gained back his ability by staying a while in underdark, and the fact that the drow no longer osse them in third edition.... The game take place in second
Thank you for correcting me Most of my D&D literature is related to 3e and 3.5e forgotten realms with BG, BG2 and IWD being the only real AD&D I've played.
Agree to disagree, the ability to make sub races should be available at least to the modders. This then makes it possible for all kinds of subraces without offending the lore nazi's and people who want it to stay as pure to 2e as possible. Everyone is happy, 100% of the people get what they want.
Wow this thing has gotten to nine pages? Lol, From the looks of this page, it seems as if the same arguements will just repeat themselves from different people.
@etagloc, dude this isn't even an argument, there are at least 15 posts that show how hollow is this speech. Just give a search on this thread to find them.
It's not his comment but your reply that's hollow. You keep "evading" the one crucial comment with empty replies.
The one crucial question is: Why are you so bothered by other people playing as a Drow? You can completely ignore the entire feature by not selecting a Drow, so it wouldn't affect you in any way.
Stats won't be affected by him moving to the surface. He can still cast darkness and faerie fire, and in previous novels he's noted his thanks for his innate spell resistance. What you neglected to mention is that drow are blinded by light.
As been stated before. There are surface Drows who worship Vhaeraun. They are not affected by the light because they've grown used to it.
@Thels, dude, if you like to lie to yourself be my guest, put a dragon race too and find a way to move on the game when the dragon stay in his true form (maybe even put a wide selection of kinds of dragons...), , and say after that "if you don't like don't pick"... there are crap arguments that fit better than this one.
Agin, for the 4° time probally: This thread does not mirror the truth, in fact EVERYONE (or at least near everyone) want a drow main char, what the ppl that voted for "i don't want playable drow" means is that we don't want the simple addition of a button where is wrote "drow" for you pick the race, that's not a drow, it's a character with dark skin and aditional abilities.
If done badly now, we would have to probally stick with the crap addition of drow. At maximum we would get a modder that would try to fix the problem, but with his vision of the game. What ppl that voted "i don't want playable drow" means is that if the drow race are added to the game, we want coherence with the plot lines of the game, new banters that justify the character being a drow, penalities for being from a hated race, blocks on certain quests that would not be given to a drow, and maybe some specific quests that only drows or characters that meet certain conditions would get.
So, MAYBE if ppl wait, Beamdog on the future make a decent addition of drow race as an patch/DLC, cos they're to much near the release of the game to do anything now, i think.
The problem of this thread, is that at each turn of page (we're on page 9 a.t.m.) ppl repeat the same bullshit argued before. Few of the ppl that voted "i want playable drow" made good points until now, and even more few are sincere and have gone direct to the point saying "i want exactly a drow button, i don't care with coherence".
The problem of this thread, is that at each turn of page (we're on page 9 a.t.m.) ppl repeat the same bullshit argued before. Few of the ppl that voted "i want playable drow" made good points until now, and even more few are sincere and have gone direct to the point saying "i want exactly a drow button, i don't care with coherence".
People wanting a Drow race is already in itself a "good point" to adding them.
I don't see why people insisting that Drow need specific dialogue is a good point when we already have Viconia's situation, proving that in BG a Drow can get by with barely any molestation.
Not to mention the argument I already provided that "gameplay sometimes must take precedence over lore".
I think Lore and Gameplay can reach a happy medium here though. It doesn't have to be the way you're suggesting @Tanthalas. I think it would be a wonderful idea for a Drow character to be made with DLC with a completely altered adventure to account for you being drow. And @Tanthalas, you're forgetting one very large, key difference between the PC and Viconia. Viconia, the lucious drow that she is, is in hiding on the surface. The PC is running around putting himself in front of everyone. So your point about Viconia falls short, Unfortunately. and I'm not 100 percent sure if this is implied, but the reason why she isn't attacked after she joins you is: that she's not the one putting herself out there starting quests, and talking to the townsfolk, lol
@Kamuizin I agree with you wholeheardetly. When it's said that games sometimes have to sacrifice the story for gameplay, i completely disagree. If that actually happens, the game itself becomes very lackluster. I'm not implying that the game SHOULD sacrifice the story telling element. I'm saying that if the adventure was later altered into what might be a different mode of play (kind of like a difficulty setting) then this Drow thing would fit in better. Anyone wanting to play the SAME game as a drow in more than looks only, doesn't know much about this game
Since this isn't an MMO, whether playable drow or not are put in the game won't affect me since I won't play them. However, since my opinion has been asked via the poll, I'll say that I don't believe time should be wasted adding them in as a playable race. If it has to be done, make them only available for the Black Pits since they'll fit much better there.
Too many story issues with the first and second game, especially considering the ridiculous circumstances you find Viconia in, as much as I would like a litter of beautiful black elven babies with her.
Comments
I personally want to try out drow as well, I always have. No one here is saying "No, being drow is a bad idea!" The ones who don't want playable drow are saying that it wouldn't make any sense unless if the game were balanced to support it.
And a drow growing up in candlekeep wouldn't necessarily be evil. THAT is pretty much as dependant as it is with other races.
Being a drow is perfectly reasonable, I myself only oppose it because the devs probably won't be able to fully support that choice, which is a much more impacting racial choice than any other (AFAIK). Simply adding drow with a dark elven sprite a adequate magical resistance would sound like a unambitious mod.
And in that case, I think a nice compromise would be if the devs made new races easily moddable (if they already aren't).
Needless to say, you're level 1. You can't impose yourself on half of the Realms from the beginning. There's even the possibility you'll run from the wildlife - especially if Baldur's Gate 1 walking speeds are restored and poor you pick the mage class.
Furthermore, very few people actually know what you are. Even you don't.
So far, nothing here can salvage your PC drow from entering in conflict with the public because of his appearance. But then, let's say everyone already knew Charname is a child of \o/MURDER\o/ - well that'd make matters worse for the most part.
And we're back to the beginning - being a drow is just a matter of changing the color pallete and adding racial traits, its also a invitation to the ire of the common people wether you're actually evil or not. And as far as we know, the developers can't really do much to simulate that.
Ideas are 1) A hefty reputation penalty at the beginning, forcing Charname to work his way out of his parent race's reputation (like, I suppose, Drizzt and similar drows?), though one that shouldn't enter effect until after you leave Candlekeep and 2) Whatever encounters that Viconia suffers from being a drow are altered so that being a drow yourself has some added consequence: an example would be that when you first meet Viconia, you don't have the option to let the flaming fist soldiers kill her and move on with your life - they will come for you too.
I, myself, would rather more. Indeed, taking Viconia with you should, by itself, have some more consequences. But if the above was implemented, then I think it is good enough. If not even the above is implemented, then its best left for mods.
You make a good argument but I think many of these things could be solved reasonably easily. There could be a reputation cap on any party with a drow PC, which would mean that goods in stores would be more expensive. You could make it so that most of the inns won't allow them to sleep there so they would be forced to rest outside and take their chances with wandering monsters. And instead of having the Flaming First spawn as they do with really low rep characters you could have 'villagers' spawning in certain areas to drive the drow away. (Possibly bandit figures could double as villagers for this purpose?)
Stats won't be affected by him moving to the surface. He can still cast darkness and faerie fire, and in previous novels he's noted his thanks for his innate spell resistance. What you neglected to mention is that drow are blinded by light.
The one crucial question is: Why are you so bothered by other people playing as a Drow? You can completely ignore the entire feature by not selecting a Drow, so it wouldn't affect you in any way.
No.
Agin, for the 4° time probally: This thread does not mirror the truth, in fact EVERYONE (or at least near everyone) want a drow main char, what the ppl that voted for "i don't want playable drow" means is that we don't want the simple addition of a button where is wrote "drow" for you pick the race, that's not a drow, it's a character with dark skin and aditional abilities.
If done badly now, we would have to probally stick with the crap addition of drow. At maximum we would get a modder that would try to fix the problem, but with his vision of the game. What ppl that voted "i don't want playable drow" means is that if the drow race are added to the game, we want coherence with the plot lines of the game, new banters that justify the character being a drow, penalities for being from a hated race, blocks on certain quests that would not be given to a drow, and maybe some specific quests that only drows or characters that meet certain conditions would get.
So, MAYBE if ppl wait, Beamdog on the future make a decent addition of drow race as an patch/DLC, cos they're to much near the release of the game to do anything now, i think.
The problem of this thread, is that at each turn of page (we're on page 9 a.t.m.) ppl repeat the same bullshit argued before. Few of the ppl that voted "i want playable drow" made good points until now, and even more few are sincere and have gone direct to the point saying "i want exactly a drow button, i don't care with coherence".
I don't see why people insisting that Drow need specific dialogue is a good point when we already have Viconia's situation, proving that in BG a Drow can get by with barely any molestation.
Not to mention the argument I already provided that "gameplay sometimes must take precedence over lore".
BG EE exist today based on the sucess of the story behind the plot and the deep interaction of the NPCs, take that from BG and the game lost it soul.
Anyone wanting to play the SAME game as a drow in more than looks only, doesn't know much about this game