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Free Action - Do You Use It?

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
edited December 2013 in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
I've seen a few bug threads regarding various things cropping up with Free Action, and it really startled me because I never use Free Action. My reasoning is that the drawbacks (can't use movement speed increase from Boots of Speed, and the inability to be Improved Hasted) mean Free Action is never a good option. I've actually avoided upgrading certain weapons to their fullest extent, despite the awesome abilities they get, because they come with always-on Free Action.

But, seeing that other people use it got me to wondering if I was missing something. So, do you use Free Action? If so, why and in what situations?
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Comments

  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    I usually leave it on Viconia or someone who doesn't need to be hasted but would rather not be paralyzed. Against mind flayers, I toss the ring around between characters. If I see a psi blast going for someone I throw the ring to them and swap it in before it hits.
  • selkyraselkyra Member Posts: 54
    Free Action is great in certain situations in which somebody uses Web or the druid version (spider traps and druids), or against enemies that tend to cast hold (mages, umberhulks, illithid), or slow (Golems!). Especially in BG1 and early BG2, then I move on to Paws of Cheetah and Improved Haste.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    I don't like the cheata boots since I want my entire team going at the same pace, so I use free action items all the time. Allows characters to wade into layered web spells and mop up enemies near death to save ammo.
    If you want to use both together, you can micromanage and just unequip the item (as long as it isn't armor) when you want to use the boots.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,157
    I often use Free Action on my Clerics. That way, they can still heal or cure no matter what.
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    I use it when I'm desperate, but either due to EE or due to a mod I have installed, Free Action prevents the character from being hasted, which bugs the crap out of me. I have a ring that gives Free Action though, so I just toggle it on my main character depending on the situation.
  • enqenqenqenq Member Posts: 499
    edited December 2013
    On a recent solo mage playthrough, I was very ballsy about AoE'ing down packs of monsters. Sometimes that required me to lure them together into my pile of Web spells, and a Potion of Freedom made that so easy. I suddenly found myself a little sad I couldn't get a Free Action item in chapter 2 :P

    (or can I?)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I appreciate all of the responses, and I see some possibilities. I may play around with the RoFA a bit.

    However, my experience is that the folks who would benefit most from Free Action - front-liners like fighters, paladins, etc - are also the ones losing the most from it. Spoiler example:
    Once you fully upgrade the Flail of Ages in ToB, it gains a bunch more elemental damage, but also picks up Free Action. This is a weapon that you'd want somebody up front to be using, generally. That means if you have a warrior-type who has specialization in Flails, they're going to have 5/2 attacks per round (add in an extra 1/2 per round if they're using the Gauntlet of Extraordinary Weapon Specialization, and another 1/2 per round if they're a fighter with Grand Mastery). If you were able to give them Improved Haste, they'd pick up another 2.5 attacks per round (or 3-3.5 with the gloves/Grand Mastery). The same goes for Ixl's Spike once it's fully upgraded. These are both melee weapons, intended to be equipped by someone whose purpose is to deal melee damage, and yet they inherently place severe limits on that damage, not to mention spellcaster interruptions. I suppose one could compensate in limited circumstances by using (Greater) Whirlwind, but you can only do that so often. I find myself leaving Ixl's Spike in a Bag of Holding, and leaving the Flail of Ages at +4 just so it doesn't get 'ruined' by adding Free Action!


    Any additional thoughts would be appreciated!
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited December 2013
    Use it in situations where you have foreknowledge that the enemy will hold or stun you. But it does kill the roleplaying aspects of the game.

    Instead of getting free action, aim to find items that grant you immunity to hold and stun. Having 100% MR also work (except the fight w/ demogorgon).
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Yeah, the FoA is a bummer but it's still absolutely amazing at +4 and I'm even a little bit glad that the +5 version comes with a tradeoff. I suppose you could mod it to remove the free action. I've never used spears so I can't speak for Ixil's Spike but as it's a two-handed weapon I think you'd be using a lot of GWWs anyways.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    An analogy just occurred to me...this is as though the Amulet of Power gave you immunity to Silence, but then added 3 to the cast time of every spell. I'd be a lot happier if 'free action' items gave a benefit like Keldorn's armor or Arbane's Sword instead. Ah well. :)
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Well if it's bothering you it's quite a simple tweak to remove the effects in NearInfinity. You can choose to remove all the free action effects or just the immunity to haste-type effects.
  • leeuxleeux Member Posts: 115
    There's a mod called 'PnP FreeAction' that does just that. Check the mod page on Spellhold Studios. Link -> http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/888-pnp-free-action-v2/

    In order to be able to install it in BG2:EE you'll have to update its Weidu installer first with the last version. Just take the WeiDU from another updated mod and that will do.
  • SpiffyMcBangSpiffyMcBang Member Posts: 160
    For weapons that have free action, the best- or only- way I know of to make use of them is to keep another item equipped normally and switch off when they're in melee range. Don't use it when you need to imp. haste them either, as previously noted, but I don't think you're going to use imp. haste on every fight.

    Other items are just useless without the micro inventory management, which is unfortunate.
  • DinsdalePiranhaDinsdalePiranha Member Posts: 419
    leeux said:

    There's a mod called 'PnP FreeAction' that does just that. Check the mod page on Spellhold Studios. Link -> http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/888-pnp-free-action-v2/

    In order to be able to install it in BG2:EE you'll have to update its Weidu installer first with the last version. Just take the WeiDU from another updated mod and that will do.

    can you elaborate about how to do this? used this mod back in BG2 times and loved it, but I've no idea how to update it's installer.
  • DeltharisDeltharis Member Posts: 124
    @DinsdalePiranha
    Easiest way (judged by me) would be to download any mod that is up-to-date, follow the instructions up to a point where you have to start "setup-SOMETHING.exe" (which you don't do unless you want that mod installed too). You do the same with your outdated mod.

    That file is the up-to-date installer, and how it works is determined by it's name - so you rename it to how pnp free action installer should be named (replacing it's old installer) and run it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Thanks again for all the input! I'm going to look into using a mod to 'fix' this for me. I generally try to avoid mods that make life easier, but it just feels so wrong to upgrade an artifact-grade weapon into a form that makes me not want to use it. So I'll be a cheeseball; I can live with that. :)
  • tennisgolfbolltennisgolfboll Member Posts: 457
    This is a small balance issue that should have been fixed imo. By the time i get FoA 5 i am so loaded with whirlwinds its ok. But i miss the boots of speed so much
  • Shift07Shift07 Member Posts: 11
    Cyteen said:

    Thanks again for all the input! I'm going to look into using a mod to 'fix' this for me. I generally try to avoid mods that make life easier, but it just feels so wrong to upgrade an artifact-grade weapon into a form that makes me not want to use it. So I'll be a cheeseball; I can live with that. :)

    If you come up with something that works, could you post how you did it? I just ran into this problem as well and would very much like to fix it, even if it would be "cheating".
  • Shift07Shift07 Member Posts: 11
    edited December 2013
    That's awesome it works perfectly, thanks Cyteen! Totally worth cheating just this once.
    Post edited by Shift07 on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    You're very welcome!
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Does anyone know if Arbane's Sword actually grants free action? I like to offhand it on my fighter mage (early on in the game) to go into webs and whack things down, but she's gotten held by the web a few times now while off handing the sword and while she had the Free Action buff icon on her... Also while its in the off hand, haste definitely works on her...

    I just haven't bothered to check if she was still getting webbed but only on a critical fail or if the effect doesn't actually work.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    kryptix said:

    Does anyone know if Arbane's Sword actually grants free action? I like to offhand it on my fighter mage (early on in the game) to go into webs and whack things down, but she's gotten held by the web a few times now while off handing the sword and while she had the Free Action buff icon on her... Also while its in the off hand, haste definitely works on her...

    I just haven't bothered to check if she was still getting webbed but only on a critical fail or if the effect doesn't actually work.

    Arbane's Sword gives a limited protection; if you check the item description, it says that it only protects from hold person and paralysis. It's a bit misleading because it uses the same Free Action icon on your portrait (much like the 'Mind Shield' is used by a variety of abilities that do slightly different things).
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    Ah, thanks for clarifying, well that means I can give the short sword to a thief and off hand a long sword for my CHARNAME because she's actually proficient that way.
  • sunset00sunset00 Member Posts: 310
    Cyteen said:

    I've seen a few bug threads regarding various things cropping up with Free Action, and it really startled me because I never use Free Action. My reasoning is that the drawbacks (can't use movement speed increase from Boots of Speed, and the inability to be Improved Hasted) mean Free Action is never a good option. I've actually avoided upgrading certain weapons to their fullest extent, despite the awesome abilities they get, because they come with always-on Free Action.
    But, seeing that other people use it got me to wondering if I was missing something. So, do you use Free Action? If so, why and in what situations?

    (back to the initial OP lines) ; yes, seems to be a VERY old questions many players have had .. since... the very original BGs ; totally kinda 'screwed' or rather 'incoherently' implemented Free Action behaviours... working in a certain way on some items/spells..or working in a different way (not the same opcodes/etc implemented..or not at all.;in those others items..) on some others. So, the question apparently never was solved satisfyingly.. with always some 'traditionalist purists' stating 'that was intended that way in the original' (showing mainly the 1 or 2 items/spells with the opcodes they wished to generalize on ALL items laters^) ... or the ones reading carefully back to the original spell descriptions (and/or the ones in Icewindale too, etc..), and seeing that FA was also initially mainly intended to remove every malus on movements (to HELP the wearers)...not removing the movement bonuses (aka all speed boosts..) ; the key words in the original descriptions were always for things that can 'impend' or 'hinder' or 'limits' movement...never talking about a more generalized action against things that HELP movement too (aka speed boosts..) ; just removing the negatives effects... NOW, confusion came with an item like the ring, that specifically stated, that one ; "The wearer is immune to everything, magical and otherwise, that affects mobility in any way. This includes haste and slow spells." .... that could be a kind of very unique item, in a way (not to be modified so..ok for that one...OR an error in the description^..).. NOW.. later came patchers, especially the ones from gibberlings3 ( the famous and otherwise excellent G3 fixpack http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2fixpack/docs.php ) that decided, to 'harmonize things', aka (here^) generalize the ring behaviour to ALL FA things (at the contrary to other initial fixes, like Baldurash for exemple, that were much less draconians with that kind of FA 'ring' generalization... even if, then, they could also NOT not noticed that would totally screw too inner speed boosts from special chars -and so was not possible as such- (ex:monks)..so they introduced special counter measures for monks and so, for those ones not to be affected by the anti movement boost thing...generalized now otherwise (with that way to 'harmonize' things of course; logical in its way..but already with those caveats so..)!^ That is also ironic to know there is in Icewindale a belt that gives FA AND speed charges once/day (the very meaning of the thing beeing to be able to combine both so..!)..that obviously was intended to work together with np (or similarily, to a lesser extent, the arbanes sword in BG2..even if that one has a limited FA protection when weared, the icon is all the same here and..the speed bonus are accepted without troubles too).

    Now, came a guy that found all that always weird too.. read back all the original descriptions, and came back exactly as i am right now too (not even only me btw^).... and noticed the FA effect never had to really destroy the speed bonuses... or that was a bogus RoFA description (that happens relatively often alas in BGs it seems..^), or the generalized late 'fixed' behaviour was wrong.. so he made his mod (correcting one by one every items dealing with FA!)..the way he read the original descriptions worked and was meant too (yes, me too, when i read back in original FAQ/manuals 'hinder' or 'impend' i don't generalize to all speed boost, à priori^) !
    http://www.shsforums.net/files/file/888-pnp-free-action-v2/ was born indeed, apparently... and the best thing is even in the fixpack forums, in the end, no one could argue that was 'not right' too..so, in fine, letting everyone decide if they wanted to stick to the fixpack generalized 'fixed' changes [the way we know it nowadays too with the EE again apparently^].. (so refusing to change their interpretation too of course)...or use the mod for the others. ^

    Honestly, when i read back the original descriptions, i can only agree with the mod interpretation (except maybe for the unique ring that might have been created as..beeing unique 'double edge sword' effect or smthg (to compensate the fact the ring is the most easy AND immediate way to use&switch at will the FA benefices..so a little too 'overpowerful' as such..certainly true too^)..or just plain error on its original description - k^) ;
    "This component ensures Free Action does not cancel or prevent movement bonuses - it only negates penalties such as Hold, Web, Entangle, Grease, stunning, etc. Among other things, this means you can now equip Boots of Speed and the Ring of Free Action to gain the benefits of both, as per PnP descriptions. It also fixes various bugs and inconsistencies related to Free Action, Haste and Slow in both unmodded and modded resources (creatures, items and spells)."

    ...the problem becomes even crazier when you play a bard blade, btw, when you see that FA is blocking and even WASTING your innate defensive spins charges (if used first..aka very easy to forget to remove ESPECIALLY the ring, for ex..or if you drank a potion 1h sooner^..you are *ùù* with its effects too then..the full 2h long^) as such -!... And of course, you can no more use FA+DS, and have your native DS lock movement removed (as that was the case in the originals too)...with the only way you can always get both effects together, aka, here again, using an 'exploit' (if we follow that 'logic'!^), aka launching the DS first and then using your FA gear/etc.. you have both effects, but the DS movement lock is not removed too (and IF i hear that is 'normal' because your defensive spin lock is 'not magical'..then i reply; 'ah yeah?..so , then why are haste/improved haste not allowed with offensive spins, EXCEPT for the speed potions when drank first only (before OS..again that magical 'exploit' argument here!)... when we know offensive spin is natural too, and not magical too' lol..eternal cycling arguments) ).. -!

    ...so, well, the good thing is to know that changing that IS possible.. thx to a mod like that for the ones not knowing how to use NI/DLTCEP...or directly and manually 'hand fixed' for the ones knowing NI/DLTCEP... and good for me, as i could find also the trick to fix the FA problem with DS spins interraction problem too (and always thinking and or meditating what to do for OS and haste spells too..could be very easily fixed too..if the DS 'natural lock' is considered normal and not to be changed by FA - i found a way to remove that -or not- too..if wished btw-..then, obviously the limitation of OS with haste/improved haste is null too., as OS IS natural too^. Personally, i would tend to think the 'natural thesis' is indeed the good one too, both for DS and OS..though now, i have difficulties to imagine how the hell the blade dude can launch spells and use range weapons when using DS if all his attention is concentrated on his defensive movements lol.. but that's another thing too i imagine^^.. weird interractions too with speed/OS btw, another item seems to show it too, like the bracers with one charge of improved haste..that can, again, inconsistently work with OS IF the charged is launched first...another 'exploit' that should not be so, if we follow the current 'canon post G3 fixes logics'^), etc, etc).

    I initially hoped the EE would have clarified that old thing.. but apparently, they will not really so (they might polish the 'exploits' though, imo..to stay coherent with that way to see things)... i immediately noticed that in BG1EE but did not insist too much (as there were so many other more important things to fix first..lol..and that FA was much less usable with multiple items/spells lvls/durations too..except the famous dual handed sword..that ironically could be used initially with speed bonuses too..but that's another trouble too i guess lol -etc)..but for BG2EE, obviously with such items as FOA+5/Keldorn armor and others, and much more occasions to use FA (with looong durations)..well.. i hoped a fix for that too.. but nope, apparently, will be the fixpack3 and end too (whatever the multiple 'just use the exploits' using first , remove the second, put it back, etc..blas or not, etc, according to the situation and..voilà, 'normal' apparently too as such?..^)).. ^^ oki doki.. so conclusion; good such mods exist of course imo (and/or NI/DLTCEP so!... //
  • sunset00sunset00 Member Posts: 310
    edited December 2013
    kryptix said:

    Ah, thanks for clarifying, well that means I can give the short sword to a thief and off hand a long sword for my CHARNAME because she's actually proficient that way.

    Yes! Arbane's sword (SW1H27) uses the FA icon only apparently..but only protect /hold or /paralyse (i verified the codes too; only protects again opcodes 109&175, aka hold1&2 so..no other opcodes restrictions included so, k here^)..and that's a good thing it doesn't have to get the FA (fixpack3 way^) full effects applied, as that would ruined its whole concept! (1 haste charge/day), if the full FA icon protection 'meaning' was applied here.. also, that way, it can work with np with haste spells (external) and/or blades OS and DS too so; right (as we may have expected naturally so!... great *) ).... on the other hand... you can, NOW, also totally apply its haste charge before the Blade OS -and then cumulate both too-, 'cause there are no restrictive opcode code against OS too on it, that way^ (another inconsistency among the many others related to haste/I.haste/FA items so!).... a thing i can appreciate too with a bard blade though (and i begin to wonder if that would not be the right OS one with all haste/items now..'usable with haste'^..)... and if no one mentions it, they will not change that too of course..'perfectly normal and legit' the 'traditionalists' will say too i 'm sure lol... ok for me too on that one too then... why not.. but that's really beginning to look messy & full of inconsistencies in the opcodes applied or not according (or not?) to the good will of the initial item creators (or not?) apparently, all that.. ^ ... *//
    Post edited by sunset00 on
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Cyteen said:

    @Shift07 Unzip the attached into your Override folder. The three files remove 'haste immunity' from the Ring of Free Action, Flail of Ages +5, and Ixil's Spike +6. I just used NearInfinity to remove a bunch of stuff from all three items. Basically, I took out all effects that made you immune to haste spells; allowed the haste icons to show on player portrait; removed the functions that 'dispel' haste effects from you on equipping; took out the function that prevents the text 'Hasted' from showing up when you get hit with a haste effect; and took out the movement speed modification. I've tested the items and confirmed that they allow you to be affected by Boots of Speed, Haste and Improved Haste. You're still immune to web, entangle, yadda yadda.

    So yeah, I'm a cheater. :(

    Good work. will these files work for both BGEE and BG2EE?
  • sunset00sunset00 Member Posts: 310
    edited December 2013
    decado said:

    Good work. will these files work for both BGEE and BG2EE?

    Yes, should work ; BG1EE &BG2EE use the same commandlines...

    (EDIT) Oh and... if you remove also the line 'Spell: Protection from Spell SPCL522' ... you can ALSO make them compatible* with Bard blade Defensive Spins (DS - aka not permanently wasting your DS too with those ones equiped &/or others with similar FA effects^^) (*though not removing just yet the DS mvt lock..another line to add for that one to be removed too..^).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    @decado I don't know...haven't been back into BGEE since BG2EE came out. Two of the files (Foa+5 and Ixil's Spike) are irrelevant to BGEE; not sure if the RoFA will transfer appropriately.
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