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Fighter/Mage multi class question

Hi All, I've just started this character
ST18/58 DE12 CO12 IN18 WI10 CH18
Which of these abilities would you have changed and why?
One condition is that I want to see all story dialogue.
All help appreciated.
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Comments

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    for BGEE or BG2EE? Honestly I'd probably still be rolling stats right now for that character.
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    12 Dexterity? 12 Con? Good lord kill it with fire. Your own fire to be specific.
  • SerpionSerpion Member Posts: 67
    Eldrane said:

    Hi All, I've just started this character
    ST18/58 DE12 CO12 IN18 WI10 CH18
    Which of these abilities would you have changed and why?
    One condition is that I want to see all story dialogue.
    All help appreciated.

    Dex should be 18 (It give you good AC bonus), CON should be maximized (it give good HP bonus: 1 hp per level if your CON 15 or greater).

  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438
    I'm assuming this is BG: EE, we're talking about, and not BG II: EE. Also erring on the side of caution and assuming you're newer to the game, so I don't risk spoilng any surprises for you.

    It's possible! Like GamingFreak said, that Dexterity and Constitution will be a little problematic, at first...here's some suggestions on those two notes.

    Dexterity: No Armor Class bonuses or penalties at 12, and no bonuses or penalties to ranged attacks. If you're like me and you like to fill things with darts of wounding or arrows of wounding...or bolts of biting before engaging them, you're going to want at least a 16 in that (that's when you start seeing bonuses to hit with ranged weapons). So, grab the gauntlets of dexterity as soon as you're able! It's an automatic boost to 18.
    That won't be enough to avoid your character being perforated, so... Here are some equipment suggestions!
    -Gauntlets of Dexterity - It's a -4 to AC. Also makes ranged attacks more likely to connect.
    -Robe of the Archmage - Grab it! It drops your AC to 5, and stacks with most other AC aides.
    -A Shield - I suggest it...couldn't hurt! I hate things hitting me. Even without Sword & Shield Style, this is still pretty good. There are all sorts of good shields lying around for you to take, too! If you talk to Bjornin, in Beregost, he can hook you up with one pretty early if you do some clean-up for him. Other, nicer shields are all around, but his gift is a nice, starter magical shield. :3
    -A Ring of Protection - Elementary! Grab one.
    -Helmet - I'm not necessarily talking about the regular helmets, although those are nice. I'm talking about ones like Helm of the Noble, and the Helm of Balduran; the latter is especially nice, since it gives you a bonus to AC and saving throws.
    -Cloak - Cloak of Balduran or Cloak of Displacement, and you can't go wrong! The former gives you a bonus to AC, so~
    -Boots - Ye gods, please, put some boots on! Senses of the Cat are GREAT at allowing you to dodge missiles, and let me tell you, it's a pain in the ass when somebody keeps plinking you with darts.
    Mind, there are other items out there that could be better or worse, and it's not going to be easy to get everything on this list until like...Chapter 5? 6? Give or take. Cloak of Displacement and Robe of the Archmagi are good investments; the former can be obtained in Ulgoth's Beard, while the latter can be gotten from Thalantyr's shop, in High Hedge. Once you've got Pellan's Shield +2, Cloak of Balduran, Robe of the Archmagi, Ring of Protection +2, Helm of Balduran, and Gauntlets of Dexterity, and you're wielding a certain enchanted scimitar, you'll be looking a -8 Armor Class in the face. Without the scimitar (which is picky with regards to non good-aligned individuals), it's a -6, which is nothing to sneeze at.
    ...until then, grab a Ring of Wizardry, and be sure to have at least one 1st level spell slot dedicated to armor! Also keep mirror image in mind, it'll help you soak up those obnoxious enemy magic missiles.

    Constitution: This might be a bit of a challenge, since a multi-classed character's Hit Points are rolled a little differently... It's still doable, my first playthrough was with a 12 Constitution. Maybe less, not sure...
    At 15, you start seeing bonuses to Hit Points; at 20, you start seeing pips of regeneration, which...really only become useful when you're travelling between maps for extended periods of time (so you don't need to heal that character as often; Kagain's a good starter-regenerator). A lot of people like to bicker over how useful this is. It all depends on my mood, personally.


    Once BG II: EE factors into things, stoneskin spells become a thing, and they're a fun thing!

    If this is BG: EE, and not BG II: EE, then you won't hurt as much since you can grab a pair of Gauntlets of Dexterity, and later on when you get Special Abilities can cast draw upon holy might to further increase it (however temporarily).
    I'm not a professional, or anything, and to be honest I play Labyrinth Lord (which was derived from B/Ex D&D and AD&D) than Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, but I like to help.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Roll of 88 is fine.

    Without rerolling...

    Str: 18/58
    Dex 19
    Con: 8
    Int: 18
    Wis: 15
    Cha: 10

    19 Dex since you are, I hope, an Elf, and not a half-elf. Con is worthless between 7 and 14, but 9 Con in BG1 gives you free use of "the Claw" without any penalties, which is achievable early in the game if you like to explore.

    Feel free to strip 1 point off Wisdom and 7 points off Charisma, and pour it into health, but personally I rather enjoyed my 6 Con playthrough starting in BG, and never really had worries about Hitpoints (there are so many other ways to die after all). Con, unless you're a short race, is pretty lackluster for a non-mage.

    Optional stat boosting stuff:

    By the end of BG1 you can expect:

    Str 19, Dex 20, Con 9, Int 19, Wis 18, Cha 11.

    Finishing SoA and Watcher's Keep gives, assuming pure good:

    Str 20, Dex 20, Con 9, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 13.

    Or assuming almost pure good (aka hilariously, arbitrarily, Evil):

    Str 22, Dex 20, Con 9, Int 20, Wis 19, Cha 12

    Either one is pretty brutal and super capable in both magic and hitting things.

    There should be absolutely no restriction on story dialogue based on your adequate charisma (and you're free to wear +Charisma items and cast Friends if you want to get the maximum store discount).
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Pantalion said:

    Roll of 88 is fine.

    Without rerolling...

    Str: 18/58
    Dex 19
    Con: 8
    Int: 18
    Wis: 15
    Cha: 10

    19 Dex since you are, I hope, an Elf, and not a half-elf. Con is worthless between 7 and 14, but 9 Con in BG1 gives you free use of "the Claw" without any penalties, which is achievable early in the game if you like to explore.

    Feel free to strip 1 point off Wisdom and 7 points off Charisma, and pour it into health, but personally I rather enjoyed my 6 Con playthrough starting in BG, and never really had worries about Hitpoints (there are so many other ways to die after all). Con, unless you're a short race, is pretty lackluster for a non-mage.

    Optional stat boosting stuff:

    By the end of BG1 you can expect:

    Str 19, Dex 20, Con 9, Int 19, Wis 18, Cha 11.

    Finishing SoA and Watcher's Keep gives, assuming pure good:

    Str 20, Dex 20, Con 9, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 13.

    Or assuming almost pure good (aka hilariously, arbitrarily, Evil):

    Str 22, Dex 20, Con 9, Int 20, Wis 19, Cha 12

    Either one is pretty brutal and super capable in both magic and hitting things.


    There should be absolutely no restriction on story dialogue based on your adequate charisma (and you're free to wear +Charisma items and cast Friends if you want to get the maximum store discount).
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    Eldrane said:


    One condition is that I want to see all story dialogue.

    i'd second the above comment on stats, but if you want to see all story dialogue you're going to need to replay this game about 5 times ;)

    Different NPCs (and whether or not you romanced them), alignment, race, gender all contribute to different dialogue options. that's why this game is awesome!
  • MaylanderMaylander Member Posts: 74
    Simple: Lower the Charisma and put it all into Dex and Con. Wisdom is only useful for a Mage if he intends to use the Wish spell, which is hardly a tactic I recommend. It's practically cheating.
  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    edited December 2013
    Dont sweat it - your character i perfectly playable. Min/maxing can be overrated. If I was going to make one change it would be to lower charisma a bit and get CON or DEX a bit higher :)
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    mjs said:

    Eldrane said:


    One condition is that I want to see all story dialogue.

    i'd second the above comment on stats, but if you want to see all story dialogue you're going to need to replay this game about 5 times ;)

    Different NPCs (and whether or not you romanced them), alignment, race, gender all contribute to different dialogue options. that's why this game is awesome!
    I believe he's asking whether the stats will affect the dialogue, a la Planescape: Torment.

    Anyways, to answer your question, stats have virtually no affect on the dialogue in this game. You can have an intelligence of 3 and still talk like a genius. As such, charisma is largely useless except for getting discounts at stores and sometimes slightly better quest rewards.

  • EldraneEldrane Member Posts: 56
    Very helpful, thanks
    Apologies I should have stated BG1EE..
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    I'd drop cha and use it on Dex and con since cha is so easy to item boost later on. Wis is good to go at 13 or 15 depending on when you want to use wish, it's really hard to beat certain parts without it for someone new, in combat resting is win!

    Int is actually technically droppable if you use potions to scribe spells, but I'd keep 16 for int drain.
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 299
    I would raise constitution to 18. Charisma and even dexterity aren´t so important. Charisma 10 is enough and dexterity, although seems important, can be low for fighter/mage. His protection is not AC but SS/PFMW/MI... Wisdom is important only if you want to use wish, than you should have at least 17. Wish is very powerful spell and I can only recommed it.
  • EldraneEldrane Member Posts: 56
    I guess the next question is which race should I be for fighter/Mage a self seems to limit con to 17?
  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    velehal said:

    I would raise constitution to 18. Charisma and even dexterity aren´t so important. Charisma 10 is enough and dexterity, although seems important, can be low for fighter/mage. His protection is not AC but SS/PFMW/MI... Wisdom is important only if you want to use wish, than you should have at least 17. Wish is very powerful spell and I can only recommed it.

    By the time you get wish you probably already gained 4 points in wis and you can always use potions the first few times though... I think you get 5? Max?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2013
    Seems pretty silly to be planning towards using Wish when you aren't going to get it until BG2EE when you have 6,000,000xp. Also as a fighter/mage there are frankly better level 9 spells you could be using. Even with the case of Limited Wish you can just have another mage in your party to use it.

    Anyways I'd lower your charisma to 9 (you can boost it to 10 not too long after the game starts), lower your wisdom to 7 (you can eventually boost it up to 10 if you find the three Tomes of Understanding) and then boost your dexterity and constitution as high as they can go (which will depend on your race). As for dialogue you don't have to worry about how stats will affect that in BGEE (at least not for the main storyline only minor changes in minor quests) and in BG2EE there are items and potions you can use to adjust your stats as needed. It will largely only matter if you are the party leader.
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 299
    The best race for F/M is gnome. Gnome is shorty so has bonus to saving throws (if he has high constituion and as a fighter/mage he should). Plus he can (in fact must) be specialist. So bonus spells. Losing necromantic spell isn´t any great disadvantage.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    As @Quartz would probably say, @Eldrane, be a man, stand out from the crowd and go for your existing stats.

    Your character is fine. He has a high STR, an INT that gives him the 9th level spells, a CHA of a very handsome person. You can easily overcome low DEX (and CON in BG2) with items.

    I won't change anything.

    Regarding the best lines of dialogs and quest, you'll have them - if you have 18 CHA, your reputation needs to be only 9+ in BG1 and 18+ in BG2 for all the best responses. When you'll find some CHA-enhancing items, you'll have 20, even 21 CHA so your reputation won't matter much (even with 19 CHA your reputation will need to be only 6+ in BG1 and 9+ in BG2).
  • velehalvelehal Member Posts: 299
    edited December 2013
    elminster said:

    Seems pretty silly to be planning towards using Wish when you aren't going to get it until BG2EE when you have 6,000,000xp. Also as a fighter/mage there are frankly better level 9 spells you could be using. Even with the case of Limited Wish you can just have another mage in your party to use it.

    But there isn´t any mage except charname (and maybe Aerie) who could safely use Wish. All have low wisdom. But it is true that it can be compensated by potions (at least in vanilla game without IR - I´ve just realized how distorted is my view on the game by the fact that my games are heavily modded so I miss something because I´m playing with mods that have removed it).
    I´m always planning my character with the end of ToB in view.
    Post edited by velehal on
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    velehal said:

    elminster said:

    Seems pretty silly to be planning towards using Wish when you aren't going to get it until BG2EE when you have 6,000,000xp. Also as a fighter/mage there are frankly better level 9 spells you could be using. Even with the case of Limited Wish you can just have another mage in your party to use it.

    But there isn´t any mage except charname (and maybe Aerie) who could safely use Wish. All have low wisdom. But it is true that it can be compensated by potions (at least in vanilla game without IR - I´ve just realized how distorted is my view on the game by the fact that my games are heavily modded so I miss something because I´m playing wiht mods that remove it).
    I´m always planning my character with the end of ToB in view.
    There are a lot of potions of insight (easily over a hundred) in Bg2. Basically most temples in the game have them and if they do have them for sale chances are they will have 13 available. Thats not even counting the ones that you find without purchasing.
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Gnomes are great, an extra spell per level, even if you do miss out on a lot of the best Save or Dies, is great, and so are Shorty Saves.

    For a Gnome I'd say...

    Str: 18/58
    Dex 12
    Con: 17
    Int: 18
    Wis: 13
    Cha: 9

    This will get the maximum Shorty-saves, maximum spells/level, and the Wishdom-dependent questline in BG2. You'll want Gauntlets of Dexterity as soon as possible, and won't have much ranged ability compared to the originally suggested Elf layout, which is a bit of a downside, but incredible saves to compensate.

    Do note that for "plot" concerns, an Elf misses out on one romance subplot, a gnome misses out on two. A half-elf gets the lot, but has mediocre racial benefits.
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    Gnomes are the power-gaming option, but I would never play a gnome because well... they look ridiculous. Half-elves are alright in that they lose out on nothing. Elves lose a bit of hp but they get better THAC0 with all swords and bows and are virtually immune to charm (quite useful, especially against sirines in BGEE).
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited December 2013
    mylegbig said:

    Gnomes are the power-gaming option, but I would never play a gnome because well... they look ridiculous. Half-elves are alright in that they lose out on nothing. Elves lose a bit of hp but they get better THAC0 with all swords and bows and are virtually immune to charm (quite useful, especially against sirines in BGEE).

    In BGEE/BG2EE Elves get a bonus to using short swords and long swords but not all swords. At least thats all they should be getting a bonus to.
    Post edited by elminster on
  • MadhaxMadhax Member Posts: 1,416
    Am I the only person here who would have dumped Strength?

    BG1 favors ranged weapons, so rely on a high Dexterity score and get a good bow. With all the extra money you'll find throughout the game, you can have a nigh-infinite supply of special arrows, too.

    BG2 will see you absolutely DROWNING in items that set your strength to 19 or beyond. Equipping one of those will turn you into a melee juggernaut from whatever strength you were at previously.
  • mylegbigmylegbig Member Posts: 292
    elminster said:

    mylegbig said:

    Gnomes are the power-gaming option, but I would never play a gnome because well... they look ridiculous. Half-elves are alright in that they lose out on nothing. Elves lose a bit of hp but they get better THAC0 with all swords and bows and are virtually immune to charm (quite useful, especially against sirines in BGEE).

    In BGEE/BG2EE Elves get a bonus to using short swords and long swords but not all swords. At least thats all they should be getting a bnous to.
    Nope, they're still getting a bonus to all swords--katanas, scimitars, etc.
  • @mylegbig Actually, @elminster has it right. I just doubled-checked an Elf in both BGEE and BG2EE, the THAC0 bonus only shows up for long swords and short swords; other bladed weapons are not getting a racial bonus. Unless the display is bugged, the Elven bonus has been properly constrained.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    Charisma is severely underrated. I like your character!

    Low Dexterity is going to trouble you somewhat, but suffice to say that there will be solutions to that problem. Constitution, on the other hand, is going to be a thorn in your spine, but Constitution has always been more of a luxury than a necessity. (Kivan and Shar-Teel have low Constitution but still kick ass)
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Madhax said:

    Am I the only person here who would have dumped Strength?

    BG1 favors ranged weapons, so rely on a high Dexterity score and get a good bow. With all the extra money you'll find throughout the game, you can have a nigh-infinite supply of special arrows, too.

    BG2 will see you absolutely DROWNING in items that set your strength to 19 or beyond. Equipping one of those will turn you into a melee juggernaut from whatever strength you were at previously.

    A very valid point, to be sure, but you are slightly exaggerating the number of Strength boosting items out there, and even fewer of them favourably compare to CHARNAME's potential 22 Strength unboosted, and you are actually getting very tangible benefits from high strength throughout the game, which isn't to be neglected.

    Mages are perfectly capable of using wands and other ranged features which don't need an attack roll at all, and they're just as capable of making it so that their AC is irrelevant anyway (and a mage AC, even robe'd, isn't really designed for evasion).

    On the pro-dex side however, it is worth noting that Strength lasts a pretty decent amount of time, sets you to 18/50 and is only a level 2 spell. You can definitely go that route (though why you'd do that when you can reroll until you get 100+ is beyond me).
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Madhax said:

    Am I the only person here who would have dumped Strength?

    BG1 favors ranged weapons, so rely on a high Dexterity score and get a good bow. With all the extra money you'll find throughout the game, you can have a nigh-infinite supply of special arrows, too.

    BG2 will see you absolutely DROWNING in items that set your strength to 19 or beyond. Equipping one of those will turn you into a melee juggernaut from whatever strength you were at previously.

    Yep, I think this is a good idea too. Unless you min/max for strength (I don't, because I want to keep my alignment :/) you're going to have to wear a belt. Plus there are tons and tons of strength potions, and as a fighter/mage strength requirements aren't too steep because you can use buffs instead of heavy armor.
  • GamingFreakGamingFreak Member Posts: 639
    well my first reply was a bit trollish, but honestly you'd want your Dex at least 16 so you get a decent bonus of some sort. Your various protection spells will definitely make up for this, but honestly you won't front-line very well unless you're wearing Bladesinger chain or something of the sort (which is an armor you can wear while casting).

    Your strength is definitely good; front-liners make me cringe when they have less than 18/?? strength because of the much needed To-hit/Damage bonuses (one of the reasons I kind am off-putting about Keldorn and Valygar, though mostly Keldorn)

    Your Constitution is bad. You'll get so little HP in comparison to how you should have, especially since you're a multi-class and you kind of get less HP as a result compared to just dual-classing. You can use a Girdle of Fortitude in BG2 to counter that though, I suppose.

    Your Wisdom and Charisma are waaaay too high. So high I need to just comment on it. From a role-play standpoint, they're decent scores, but your Charisma could have just been used as a dump-stat and put those points towards something else entirely (like your Dex/Con!). There's actually a level 1 spell for mages that can give you 18 Charisma for a period of time, making putting points in Charisma extremely useless on a Fighter/Mage.

    But at least if you re-roll the build in the future, you'll have a better understanding.
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