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Tenser's Transformation + Offensive Spin

ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
I recently tried to use this combination, but whilst under the effects of Tenser's Transformation, my Blade could not enter an Offensive Spin.

Is this a bug, or are these supposed to be mutually exclusive?

Also, does Tenser's Transformation work with Haste/IH?

Thanks!
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Comments

  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    It disables spellcasting ability, that's why you can't use OS.
    Yes, it works with IH/Haste.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Ah, thanks. I didn't realize OS was considered a 'spell'.
  • mjsmjs Member Posts: 742
    i think that's considered a bug though isn't it? there's a bug registered to fix not being able to use special abilities in the Dead Magic Zones in WK, surely this is a similar thing?
  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    Yeah, I'd say this is a bug. Tenser's Transformation is not supposed to suppress innate abilities according to the spell description, just spell-casting.
  • HandofTyrHandofTyr Member Posts: 106
    You can activate OS then tenser's to get benefits for both for the duration of that first spin. Having also recently started a blade it kind of annoys me that a number of people assume you can have both up when discussing the class when it's not really true. Misleading information and all that.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    I was disappointed to find a similar issue with the Wraithform spell in BGEE. I had intended on doing Wraithform into a spin, just to find out a couldn't. I was enjoying my blade too, I can't wait for them to patch BG2EE so that it has wraithform properly re-implemented.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    @HandofTyr and @Dragonspear
    While disappointing, this definitely is not a deal-breaker IMO. I certainly plan to keep playing my Blade despite it.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    edited December 2013
    @Thrasymachus

    It is not deal breaking, but its something that I know will be fixed (i.e. the spell wraithform added) in the next patch, so I'm just playing other classes until then. Honestly I think I've enjoyed my fighter/cleric the most.

    To the point that I'm thinking of stopping my Wizard Slayer playthrough to get back to it =/
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    This small hiccup aside, I have to say that the Blade is probably my favourite class/kit overall (tied with mage). I'm really enjoying this PC.

    And as for Tensor's Transformation, well, there are plenty of other level 6 spells...
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    @HandofTyr No you can't. Even if you start with offensive spin and then enter Tenser's, you lose the spin's bonuses. I checked it, even put Tenser's in a Sequencer, still doesn't work. You can see it when you're not doing maximum damage with each strike.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    @Lathlaer

    I wonder if when they implement it, whether you will be able to sequencer Tenser's and Wraithform. Suddenly your fighter/mage would become extremely powerful and even more difficult to kill.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    edited December 2013
    @Dragonspear what's Wraithform?

    And to be honest, a Blade under Tenser's is in my opinion much better than with offensive spin. Double hp (might put you way ahead of a fighter), +10 thac0 (that is the difference between rogue classes and fighter classes), +4 AC and +2 dmg? The only downside is that you lose this one attack.

    Of course, if you use Rogue Rebalancing mod (like me), it's harder to choose since then Blade gets Whirlwind and you can't of course use it with Tenser's. But then you have access to 8th level slots and you can sequencer Tenser's with Improved Haste :)
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    spell description (the important parts)

    level 3
    casting time: 1
    duration: 2 rounds/level
    Area of Effect: The Caster

    When this spell is cast, the wizard and all of her gear become insubstantial. The caster is subject only to magical or special attacks, including those of +1 or better enchantment, or by creatures otherwise able to affect those struck only by magical weapons. The wizard also gains 25% resistance to magic damage (i.e. damage is reduced by 25%). While in Wraithform, the caster cannot cast either arcane or divine spells.
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    Nice but I don't know if better than Tenser's + Stoneskin + Improved Haste or Tenser's + Improved Haste + Protection from Magic Weapons. Depends on the circumstances I guess :)
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    I figure it is primarily a defensive buff. And what's more, if I remember right you can't cast during tenser's anyway. I see things like stoneskin, PfMW etc being cast and then unloading the 2 spell sequencer that has both Tenser's and Wraithform at the end to add the final icing to your whirling mage of devastation cake.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Lathlaer said:


    Of course, if you use Rogue Rebalancing mod (like me), it's harder to choose since then Blade gets Whirlwind and you can't of course use it with Tenser's. But then you have access to 8th level slots and you can sequencer Tenser's with Improved Haste :)


    I sometimes think that I'm the only person here who doesn't use any mods…
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    edited December 2013
    This is why I love Haer'Dalis, he can cast Tenser's Transformatioin, plus, Prot from Magic Weapons and some Fireshields with an Improved Haste. And, obviously, a previous Stoneskin, Blur Mirror Image and Minor Globe of Invulnerability so you don't harm him with Skull Traps while he is in the front :)
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Lathlaer said:


    And to be honest, a Blade under Tenser's is in my opinion much better than with offensive spin. Double hp (might put you way ahead of a fighter), +10 thac0 (that is the difference between rogue classes and fighter classes), +4 AC and +2 dmg? The only downside is that you lose this one attack.

    The hp difference normally isn't relevant (if the PC has stoneskin on). It may be helpful in a few fights, but not most of the time.

    The +10THAC0 is the big difference in favour of TT.

    But OS gives you that extra attack, and maximum damage (not simply +2) to every hit.

    So i'm not sure TT is that much better than OS overall.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Thrasymachus said:

    Lathlaer said:


    Of course, if you use Rogue Rebalancing mod (like me), it's harder to choose since then Blade gets Whirlwind and you can't of course use it with Tenser's. But then you have access to 8th level slots and you can sequencer Tenser's with Improved Haste :)

    I sometimes think that I'm the only person here who doesn't use any mods…


    Here, possibly. In general, far from it.
  • HandofTyrHandofTyr Member Posts: 106
    Mod free is the way to be. Except maybe not. Don't use them anyway.

    @Lathlaer- That's what I get for not actually trying it myself. I wonder why it works that way when you can precast spell buffs and still benefit from them in tenser's.

    I still haven't moved past BG1 with my blade, and a lot of folks say they get much better in 2, but it's extremely underwhelming for now. Don't have a side-by-side comparison, but I think a fighter/mage would be outperforming the blade considerably. Probably doing it wrong or whatever.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    HandofTyr said:


    I still haven't moved past BG1 with my blade, and a lot of folks say they get much better in 2, but it's extremely underwhelming for now. Don't have a side-by-side comparison, but I think a fighter/mage would be outperforming the blade considerably. Probably doing it wrong or whatever.

    Since blades progress much more quickly than fighter/mages, spells that scale with the casters' level (e.g., magic missile) eventually will be more effective coming from a blade than from a fighter/mage (or even a straight mage).

    The blade begins to shine once s/he can dual-wield effectively. OS whilst dual-wielding can be quite effective.

    It may be that a fighter/mage is more powerful overall. But I like pick-pocketing, the bard song (removing and resisting fear is not often needed, but when it is, it's nice to have an 'at will' ability), the OS and DS, and the bard stronghold.

    Towards the end of BG1, I found my blade to be quite effective, especially after he pick-pocketed the scimitars off Drizzt. ;)

    Still, I like the fighter/mage option as well, and plan to use it some point in the future...
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    edited December 2013
    Thrasymachus said:

    Lathlaer said:


    And to be honest, a Blade under Tenser's is in my opinion much better than with offensive spin. Double hp (might put you way ahead of a fighter), +10 thac0 (that is the difference between rogue classes and fighter classes), +4 AC and +2 dmg? The only downside is that you lose this one attack.

    The hp difference normally isn't relevant (if the PC has stoneskin on). It may be helpful in a few fights, but not most of the time.

    The +10THAC0 is the big difference in favour of TT.

    But OS gives you that extra attack, and maximum damage (not simply +2) to every hit.

    So i'm not sure TT is that much better than OS overall.
    My modus operandi was like this: for normal fights offensive spin, for most bosses TT. I don't know what is the average AC of an enemy in ToB but I don't want my every other attack to miss :)

    To be perfectly clear - my character:

    Blade level 30
    Base THAC0: 10 (maximum a Blade can have)
    * in bastards, longswords, katanas, shortswords, scimitars, daggers
    *** in Two Weapon Fighting

    THAC0 with Str 21:
    Main Hand: 2 (Purifier +4)
    Off Hand: 1 (Usuno's Blade +4)

    That's with the Cloak of Unerring Strikes.

    With Offensive Spin it becomes 0/-1 and she has 3 attacks. That isn't too impresive for ToB.

    With TT it becomes: HP 240 (that's more than Sunnis :P) and THAC0 -7/-8 If you use Improved Haste beforehand, you have 4 attacks.


  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Lathlaer said:


    My modus operandi was like this: for normal fights offensive spin, for most bosses TT.

    That certainly strikes me as a sound strategy!
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    HandofTyr said:


    ...I still haven't moved past BG1 with my blade, and a lot of folks say they get much better in 2...

    I'm in chapter 2 of SoA, and my Blade has 56% of all kills in the game thus far. I expect this percentage to go down over time, as I now have Valygar and Keldorn in my party.

    But yeah, the Blade can be pretty effective in BG2.
  • syllogsyllog Member Posts: 158
    edited January 2014
    To be fair: while it's a heavy handed implementation to be sure the spell does suggest that you can think of nothing but martial combat - one could read that as meaning (like berserk was originally intended) that you can't concentrate enough to do complex actions. And blades spins are as much showmanship (well mostly showmanship) as actual combat maneuvers (in the original character anyway).

    Is this apologetics?
    Yes.

    (Do I wish I could change polymorph forms or cast sequencers while Tensered...? Yes. :/:)
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    sorry for necroing

    does anyone know if this is still relevant?

    has this been registered as a bug?
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    @bob_veng‌

    According to @AlexT‌ 's answer here (http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/438017/#Comment_438017) it's a bug and should be fixed in the patch 1.3 for BG2:EE.
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    thanks

    i suppose it hasn't been fixed in bg:ee 1.3?
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