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The tragedy of Hexxat.

1356

Comments

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    Dorn is doing it for power (i.e. self gain) - Edwin's decision is purely based on survival. Had he stayed with Mae'var, he would have died with him and the rest of the guild.

    And if Dorn hadn't taken the deal with Ur-Gothoz, he would have died in Luskan. Not as different as you think.

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,248
    I'm not sure what people expected with Dorn. Myself, I didn't see any potential for depth in his character and expected him to come to a bad end. Just one man's opinion.

    Quartz
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    edited December 2013
    shawne said:

    Dorn is doing it for power (i.e. self gain) - Edwin's decision is purely based on survival. Had he stayed with Mae'var, he would have died with him and the rest of the guild.

    And if Dorn hadn't taken the deal with Ur-Gothoz, he would have died in Luskan. Not as different as you think.
    You make some good points, but this in particular is kinda irrelevant to the discussion. Edwin leaves MaeVar because he is stupid-evil and it is a doomed venture. This does not really indicate future betrayal if you stay on his good side. However Dorn has a binding contract (in a very literal way) with a demon who's objectives are not your own. The parallel between the two situations is rather superficial.

    As far as what you said earlier about Korgan being a disruptive force, it is quite different. Korgan is obnoxious and violent, but he doesn't go around slaughtering civilians and bringing the undue attention of powerful authorities down upon the Bhaalspawn.

    As far as Viconia is concerned, you have a bit of a history with her from the first game, where she does not betray you. After your younger and perhaps less shrewd Bhaalspawn saved her in BG1 she did not seem to oppose him in any serious way. Thus you have far more reason to trust her. Edwin and Korgan would not, however (unless Edwin has prior experience or is thinking with his "other" head, as may often be the case) so you make an interesting point there.

    I don't think Korgan really cares either way, and is not afraid of possible danger. Viconia and Edwin, however, would not have the same attitude. I think Dorn has more in common with MaeVar than with Edwin anyway, and we know how that worked out.
    jackjack said:

    I'm not sure what people expected with Dorn. Myself, I didn't see any potential for depth in his character and expected him to come to a bad end. Just one man's opinion.

    I agree. I saw him as pretty cool when I saw him because of his presence, voice-acting and fresh attitude (not many other NPCs were as abrasively yet methodically violent). I didn't really expect him to get more interesting, and he seems pretty much a one-dimensional angryangrykillkillkill type character, though his background is cool and unique enough to make him slightly more interesting/unique than Hexxat. I think he would have been interesting if he could corrupt another NPC to make a deal with his patron.

  • Dragonfolk2000Dragonfolk2000 Member Posts: 337
    It might have been interesting to have the option to rescue Clara and she joins your party out of gratitude. She's an evil thief, but she feels endebted to you (and protected) and follows you around as a result (regardless of reputation) and just follows your lead. It would also be interesting if you didin't kill Hexxat with a wooden stake and she began to pursue your group seeking revenge until you properly finished the job.

    Quartz
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Eh, I don't want creepy Clara back. I do like Hexxat, there are some cool ideas there but that particular plot hook just didn't make sense and if I wasn't metagaming I'd never end up recruiting her. Really I just want an option to stake her for the bag of holding.

    booinyoureyes
  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    nano said:

    Eh, I don't want creepy Clara back. I do like Hexxat, there are some cool ideas there but that particular plot hook just didn't make sense and if I wasn't metagaming I'd never end up recruiting her. Really I just want an option to stake her for the bag of holding.

    To be honest, she felt creepy probably because she was dominated. Perhaps if released from charm, she would prove more...coordinated :D

    QuartzbooinyoureyesElrandir
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Clara seems like a waster of time/resources that can be used for better things (like a barbarian/bard npc).
    Hexxat sucks, but Clara is literally... a blank slate. I'm afraid the end product won't meet anyone's personal expectations/opinions of what Hexxat would/should be.

    jackjackQuartzMortianna
  • JumbikJumbik Member Posts: 19
    She is a black lesbian vampire with a collar on her neck... this rather seems like a joke for me. When I first engaged Hexxat (Clara), I thought hmm nice portrait. She is speaking kinda weird but that's because she is under a charm spell most probably. I will help her with her tomb quest, something will turn her in vampire and behold here you have normally speaking girl that becomes a vampire out of a sudden. You would play a bit of a mentor on her way to either become the ultimate evil vampire or get her to a salvation kind of ending a bit of similar to the Viconia change of alignment. Young girl looking for a guidance...

    But no, here you have your Vampire that no sane person would ever want in a party. The introduction just does not allow a normal trusting relationship. When I saw what happened in the tomb and then saw her portrait, I just heard a voice in my head whispering: F*** this let's take Jansen instead.

    And when I have read the story here... I do not regret I have dumped her.

    I liked Dorn in BG 1. I have yet to see him in BG2 though... Same for other NPCs.

    QuartzMortianna
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    Lathlaer said:

    nano said:

    Eh, I don't want creepy Clara back. I do like Hexxat, there are some cool ideas there but that particular plot hook just didn't make sense and if I wasn't metagaming I'd never end up recruiting her. Really I just want an option to stake her for the bag of holding.

    To be honest, she felt creepy probably because she was dominated. Perhaps if released from charm, she would prove more...coordinated :D

    As long as it also fixes her voice acting :p

    jackjackbooinyoureyesElrandir
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632

    I'd personally like to see a neutral fighter type that can fit multiple parties (shocking that this doesn't exist...).

    I know right? The city guard is full of them, yet none of them will join me...
    My first choice would definitely be a lawful neutral dual classable fighter. I miss dualing people (Shar-teel, Immy) like I did in BG1. Preferably with 17 dex and 17 int, so we can get a fighter/thief and fighter/mage in one go!

    I like the skald idea too, since it's a class I probably wouldn't pick for charname.

    booinyoureyes
  • JumbikJumbik Member Posts: 19
    Hmm a Skald with a tavern "stronghold" along with it for any class combination... I would kinda like it too. :)

    jackjackbooinyoureyes
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,248
    I've said it before, I'll say it again: Give me a bardbarian!

    Quartz
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792
    Far be it for me to interrupt your mutual backscratching society over how much you hate Hexxat, but I disagree with pretty much every complaint about her voiced in this thread.

    Only one point I will specifically address: anyone who takes Edwin in their party, who openly plots against you in half of his dialogue, is being ridiculous if they're complaining about how they can't trust Hexxat, Dorn, or anyone else. Dorn holds loyalty to be the highest virtue. Hexxat never indicates she will betray you, just that her highest priority is herself. Meanwhile, Edwin continuously schemes and threatens the rest of the party, and Korgan cheerfully reminisces about murdering previous companions because they slowed him down or annoyed him in some way.

    The only reason anybody actually role-playing doesn't pull Edwin's limbs off and toss him off a roof is because there isn't a better mage to go with. The only reason you don't turn around and flambe Korgan is because before TOB there isn't an alternative evil fighter. They're both completely untrustworthy and openly display it.

    [Deleted User]Buttercheese
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,248
    None of those reasons line up with mine.

    booinyoureyesQuartz
  • Edwin_OdesseironEdwin_Odesseiron Member Posts: 226
    That's because they aren't real reasons. They are attacks on the other NPC's whilst addressing none of the issues with Hexxat or Dorn.

    jackjackbooinyoureyesQuartz
  • @Edwin_Odesseiron It's impossible to 'address issues' when those issues are solely a matter of your perception. I like both Hexxat and Dorn, so I don't see any issues. Since everybody has their own opinion, changing Hexxat and Dorn to match YOUR expectations would just piss off somebody ELSE. Not only that, they're already in the game, so your endless whining isn't going to make any difference.

    Now, if you stopped acting like butthurt children, and did something constructive - say, posting a thread about 'what I'd like to see in the next new NPC if there is one' without continually harping on how awful, stupid, misguided, criminal, etc you consider some of the existing content - you might actually have some effect on the future. I certainly wouldn't listen to someone who gave me feedback in the manner you use. Are you being honest? Yes. Are you using the social skills of a five year old? Yes.

    Until then, I hope whoever is forcing you to play a game with NPCs you hate will have pity on you. What, nobody is forcing you to use Hexxat and Dorn? Then what's your problem? Oh, you have to use them to access new content? But, that means you consider the new content good enough to 'put up with' the NPCs. Or you don't like the new content, so you don't have to use the new NPCs. So I ask again, what is your problem?

    All that being said, I'm going to take the route to which several other posters have had to resort, and leave you to wallow in your own bile. GLHF.

    ShadowHunter
  • Edwin_OdesseironEdwin_Odesseiron Member Posts: 226
    edited December 2013
    Another irritating, useless input by an equally irritating ingrate.

    Firstly, you must be blind as well as stupid if you think I am alone in this. Look at this thread! Look at all the people who aren't happy with these NPC's.

    People actually have to purchase the game to explore the new content, to explore NPC's and new areas, etc. Thus, it's not a matter of "don't recruit them." You MUST recruit them to see the new stuff. And if you find that the new stuff isn't to your liking, what then? You've already blown money on the game. Sure, next time through you won't recruit them, but then you may as well be playing the old BG2, and you've essentially thrown money away.

    Your line of thinking is along the lines of "Oh, I've just bought a pair of jeans. Turns out, I actually don't like them. Oh well, I'm just not going to wear them." Except with the jeans issue, you can actually try before you buy, unlike video games.

    This is a forum for people expressing their likes/dislikes/concerns. You seek to stunt free speech, and are therefore an enemy of all sentient, free-thinking beings.

    So, despite your ignorant opinion, this *is* a constructive thread. It allows the devs to see how pathetic their NPC's were and, if they release further NPC's via downloadable content, to address these issues therein. The sheer number of people complaining (often with similar complaints) makes it painfully clear that something is lacking.

    So go elsewhere if you want to be snarky malcontent. You obviously have the intelligence of an ape and the tunnel-vision of a horse with blinders on. Think before you speak in the future and save us all some time.

    QuartzElrandirMortiannaleeux
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792
    They're not attacks per se; it's pointing out the absurdity of saying you can't trust Hexxat and Dorn while allowing known disloyal party members like Edwin and Korgan in. In this thread, people have both argued the former point while praising the latter characters. Like you, Edwin: There are no "ifs" about Edwin plotting to betray the party - he IS plotting to betray the party, quite openly. Unlike Hexxat, who is just a vampire and displays no interest in killing the party to slake her thirst (except when Korgan hits on her). Ergo, Hexxat is far more trustworthy than Edwin.

    I could argue about the points brought up about Hexxat, but why bother? It's mostly subjective. I was only registering that not everyone agrees with you, so that you can stop doing this kind of self-congratulatory BS:

    "But because she is official content, people are defending - Wait.. No. They're not. Finally. You know an NPC is truly horrible when no one likes her and notices the writing/character development simply sucks. And when the other half are calling for Clara over Hexxat. "

    Lots of people like Hexxat, as most people in this thread ought to be perfectly well aware. I assume most of them are avoiding the thread because of the holidays, or because this thread is a morass of awful opinions like: "As a man, I can safely say that I don't really understand women. And I certainly don't understand women who want nothing to do with either my or anyone's else's cock."

    Tarnfara
  • Edwin_OdesseironEdwin_Odesseiron Member Posts: 226
    Ayiekie said:


    Lots of people like Hexxat, as most people in this thread ought to be perfectly well aware. I assume most of them are avoiding the thread because of the holidays, or because this thread is a morass of awful opinions like: "As a man, I can safely say that I don't really understand women. And I certainly don't understand women who want nothing to do with either my or anyone's else's cock."

    What the hell? You've outdone yourself. Stupid is as stupid does. Please never, ever comment on any of my threads ever again, nor address me in any way whatsoever.

    Quartz
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,248
    I'm speechless.
    Consider it a New Year's resolution.

    Quartz
  • JackWalrusJackWalrus Member Posts: 16
    Getting back on topic...

    @Edwin_Odesseiron, I actually never felt like Hexxat would really betray me, simply because she needed my help in her quests, which isn't that much different from other NPC. I did not see what she could gain by killing me, aside from my blood.

    I'm not saying that I don't understand your point. Her being a vampire is clearly something that would make me hesitant to take her along (Being someone's food isn't in my plans). But from all the evil characters, Hexxat actually seemed to me like she was the less likely to actually betray me, even if she was a vampire.

    Nevertheless, I didn't really like any of the new NPC that were made. I expected a lot more from Hexxat and was really disappointed by seeing the absolute lack of payoff of her main quest. Not that I think she is an horrible character, she's just not good. And I would also like if I didn't have to bring the new NPC along to experience the new content, it felt to me like a chore instead of being fun most of the time.

    Quartz
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 601
    Dorn doesn't seem any less trustworthy than Korgan or Edwin (IMO).

    Given Korgan's past actions (information about which is revealed during his personal quest) and some of the things he says, I remember wondering why anyone would risk having him in their party when I first played BG2 over a dozen years ago. If it weren't for 'meta-game knowledge', I'd never keep Korgan around for very long.

    I just don't see how Dorn can be labeled 'Stupid Evil' but not Korgan. If anything, Korgan seems even more unpredictable than Dorn.

    Edwin at least is Lawful, but he clearly has his own agenda.

    *shrug*

    JackWalrusQuartz
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 601
    As for the new quests being tied to NPCs (i.e., requiring the new NPCs to be in the party in order for them to be available), in the original game (BG2) the special quests of Jaheira, Nalia, Korgan, Edwin, Mazzy, Cernd, Anomen, and Keldorn all required those NPCs to be in the party.

    Sure, some of those special quests were quite short (e.g., Keldorn's), but others were quite involved (Jaheira's and Nalia's).

    So I'm not seeing the huge difference between the original BG2 NPC quests and the BG2EE NPC quests, except that the latter generally involve entirely new areas (the Wild Mage Camp, etc.).

  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 601
    As for Hexxat, I didn't keep her in my party for very long (only did the first 2 quests), so I can't really comment. I'm disappointed to learn that her romance (apparently) is not very good.

    I do quite like Rasaad and Neera, however, and very much enjoy the new content that they add to the game. (I'm still in SoA, so I can't comment on any of the ToB material.)

    Elrandir
  • AyiekieAyiekie Member Posts: 792


    What the hell? You've outdone yourself. Stupid is as stupid does. Please never, ever comment on any of my threads ever again, nor address me in any way whatsoever.

    I'd love to have you explain what you meant there. Is that somehow not an awful opinion? Because sorry, it is! Actually, I'm not sorry.

    Whoops, I disobeyed your direct orders! I'm not sorry about that either. Feel free to comment on why your treasonous namesake is so much more trustworthy than Dorn or Hexxat anytime, BTW - since, after all, that's one of your big complaints about them.

    I imagine you'll now try to use the excuse that you're "roleplaying Edwin" again. It's great to have an excuse like that so that you could be rude to anyone!

  • JackWalrusJackWalrus Member Posts: 16
    @Thrasymachus, I think the main problem with the new NPC being required is that it is linked to the new content. You are forced to bring the new NPC to experience the new quest added in the game. And this new content is one of the things that we obviously wanted to experience with EE. I'm not saying I'm that bitter about it or that I don't understand why Beamdog did it or that it wasn't like that with original BG, all I am saying is that I happened to not like the new NPC that much and would have prefered to be given a choice about taking them along. I think this is why there is an actual difference with the new content.

    QuartzElrandirGrum
  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,680
    To focus in the less problematic point of this thread as the trust factor is like to makeup the big picture by discussing one of the thousand questions as if that's the sole problem of the NPC.

    Hexxat is a disappointment from so much angles and perspectives that invest time and expectative on that NPC infuse me at least with an feeling of frustation so great that i even remember Mass Effect 3 end feelings (not in the same level obviously).

    About 3 days after BG2 Release and Hexxat content release (if not less), people were already asking for an Clara official NPC, a character made blank and with the sole prupose of be uninteresting and be an accessory plot for Hexxat, that by itself is proof more than enough of how critical was the failure of Hexxat NPC.

    ElrandirMortiannaleeux
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 601
    edited December 2013

    @Thrasymachus, I think the main problem with the new NPC being required is that it is linked to the new content. You are forced to bring the new NPC to experience the new quest added in the game. And this new content is one of the things that we obviously wanted to experience with EE. I'm not saying I'm that bitter about it or that I don't understand why Beamdog did it or that it wasn't like that with original BG, all I am saying is that I happened to not like the new NPC that much and would have prefered to be given a choice about taking them along. I think this is why there is an actual difference with the new content.

    While it may be frustrating (for some) that the new areas are all tied to the new NPC quests -- although I'm not sure the areas associated with Rasaad's and Neera's quests make any sense without those NPCs (unless, perhaps, the PC is a sun soul monk or wild mage) -- the NPC quests in the original BG2 also required those NPCs to be in the party. (You couldn't deal with the Roenells unless Nalia was in your party, you couldn't cure Palia unless Mazzy was in your party, etc.)

    Nonetheless, it would've been nice had a couple of new areas been added to BG2EE (and BGEE, for that matter) that were not tied to any of the NPCs.

    Mortianna
This discussion has been closed.