Mind Flayers and elementals

Mythantor

Just a wierd thing, I don't know if it's a bug or not but it definatly made me stop and go "what?".

A mind flayer can use it's Int drain and then extract an elementals brain.

Elementals don't have brains, they are completely made of fire/wind/earth. All trying to extract a fire elementals brain should do is result in burnt tentacles.

Just a little bug/wierd thing I thought I'd mention.

Itstucktwice

Mythantor said:

Elementals don't have brains

How rude.

kamuizin

Even some undead summons are drained on int nowdays... don't know why.

xzar_monty

It's funny the way these things go in games like this. You accept an awful lot of completely unrealistic things which go against everything you've ever known about logic and reason, but despite that, there is some stuff that you won't accept, because even in a context like this, it doesn't make any sense. This is one of them.

Mythantor

The effect is called "willing suspension of disbelief" and it only works if the game is consistent within the rules it sets for itself.

Lathlaer

I learned long ago that when it comes to elementals, there are only two options: either they las few seconds in a room full of flayers, or completely destroy them in the case of Elemental Princes.

xzar_monty

@Mythantor: I thought it would have been too erudite to refer to Coleridge on these forums... :-)

Metalloman

@Mythantor: you could try to open a ticket in the Feature Request Area, asking that the Illithid's ability won't apply to Elementals, Undeads and other creatures, explaining why.

FI: - Elementals doesn't have brains/are made of weird materials like air/fire/water etc;
- Undeads are brainless entities and doesn't need it to move and think (if they think at all);

Etc.

Skaffen

This has been discussed ad nauseum in

https://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/25750/bgii-ee-bug-mind-flayers-devouring-skeleton-brains

moody_mage

If you suck a water elementals brains out do you get a nice refreshing drink?

Metalloman

@Skaffen: It is not a bug: simply there is not differentiations. That's why I suggest to place a ticket in Feature Request.

Mathsorcerer

Allow me to link the fix for this that I already created. Drop those files into override and the illithid attacks will no longer drain intelligence from undead, slimes/jellies, and golems. It still works on elementals for now but I am seriously considering making them immune, as well.

nikkoav

@Mathsorcerer I know this is a bit of an old thread, but here's a vote towards making elementals immune

Necromanx2

Are they going to fix it so that mind flayers don't 3 hit and kill undead (and elementals for that matter)? I find it weird that undead are able to have brain extract work on them.

Necromanx2

Should have been here:

Are they going to fix it so that mind flayers don't 3 hit and kill undead (and elementals for that matter)? I find it weird that undead are able to have brain extract work on them.

Necromanx2

I put this in the wrong forum. Added one to BG2EE

Sharguild

Just as an aside, The Mind Flayers are "Intellect Devourers" not "brain eaters" as I understand it. Since your undead (i.e. skellies) are not possessed by you, they have a semblance of intellect, sufficient to comprehend action at least, so it does not appear to me that rules are broken.
I'm sure someone with a 2nd Ed Players Handbook ( or Monster Compendium) handy could shed more light on this though.

Kurumi

Combat:

A mind flayer's preferred method of attack is the mind blast, projected in a cone 60 feet long, 5 feet wide at the mind flayer, and 20 feet wide at the opposite end. All within the cone must make a saving throw vs. wands or be stunned and unable to act for 3d4 rounds. The illithid tries to grab one or two stunned victims (requiring normal attack rolls if others try to prevent this) and escape with them.

The illithid keeps some victims as slaves and feeds on the brains of the others. When devouring the brain of a stunned victim, it inserts its tentacles into the victim's skull and draws out its brain, killing the victim in one round. A mind flayer can also use its tentacles in combat; it does so only when surprised or when attacking a single, unarmed victim.

A tentacle which hits causes 2 hp damage and holds the victim. A tentacle does no damage while holding, and can be removed with a successful bend bars/lift gates roll. Once all four tentacles have attached to the victim, the mind flayer has found a path to the brain and kills the victim in one round.

If preferred, the DM can simply roll 1d4 for the number of rounds required to kill a struggling victim. A mind flayer can also use the following arcane powers, one per round, as a 7th-level mage: suggestion, charm person, charm monster, ESP, levitate, astral projection, and plane shift.

All saving throws against these powers are made at a -4, due to the creature's mental prowess. If an encounter is going against a mind flayer, it will immediately flee, seeking to save itself regardless of its treasure or its fellows.


Source: The updated Monstrous Manual™ for the AD&D® 2nd Edition Game

Skatan

There's a ton of threads about this already, one of'em just a couple of threads below this one:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/28475/mind-flayers-and-elementals#latest

Edit: in this thread there's a link to another thread discussin undead, even though the title is about elementals.

elminster

Merged your two threads on this

Mathsorcerer

I guess I should fix it for elementals today. I always need something else to do at work other than work.

FrdNwsm

I always used to wonder how Ilithids could eat the brains of Jaheira's fire elementals without their tendrils getting burned off. The I realized that the elemental's fire was magical, and they have magic resistance ... so ... mystery solved. On the other hand, they were pretty much vulnerable to my animated skeletons.

I don't recall them being able to devour the "intellect" of my skeletons at all. By the time we hit the Underdark, I was summoning skeletal warriors with 90% MR, which I assumed was protecting them from that process. I also realized that they kept Umber Hulks around precisely for protection against creatures immune to mind drain. The Hulks would do a job on my skeletons by crunching them to pieces. Munch munch munch!

I ended up sending in a mixed wave of attackers; 3 skeletons to head for the Ilithids, and 2 elementals to distract the Hulks.

Anduin

I find this thread... unnerving...

*checks brain*

Almateria

it's the illithid version of lutefisk

Skatan

Mmmmmm, lutfisk!

Mathsorcerer

Not a problem--it was a one-minute fix to add the effect that grants immunity to the mind-draining effect to anything which has a racial stat of "elemental". The mindflay.itm weapon that the illithid use now won't have any effect on the undead, oozes/slimes/jellies, golems, and elementals--things which might have minds but do not have physical brains (no, I don't know how--it's magic). Unzip and drop the three files into override; it couldn't be simpler.

Incidentally, the illithid weapon qualifies as a +2 weapon so using Mantle, Improved Mantle, Absolute Immunity, or ideally Protection from Magic Weapons will make a mage immune to the mind-drain effect, as well.

I just checked--the Shapechange spell will give the mage choosing the illithid form the mindflay weapon, as well--try not to use it on the undead, oozes, golems, or elementals because that would be a waste.

Mathsorcerer

Fixed in the other thread but not in the original one.

JuliusBorisov

Even more magic with wildsurge here: wildmerge!

Kurumi

Mathsorcerer said:

Not a problem--it was a one-minute fix to add the effect that grants immunity to the mind-draining effect to anything which has a racial stat of "elemental". The mindflay.itm weapon that the illithid use now won't have any effect on the undead, oozes/slimes/jellies, golems, and elementals--things which might have minds but do not have physical brains (no, I don't know how--it's magic). Unzip and drop the three files into override; it couldn't be simpler.

Incidentally, the illithid weapon qualifies as a +2 weapon so using Mantle, Improved Mantle, Absolute Immunity, or ideally Protection from Magic Weapons will make a mage immune to the mind-drain effect, as well.

I just checked--the Shapechange spell will give the mage choosing the illithid form the mindflay weapon, as well--try not to use it on the undead, oozes, golems, or elementals because that would be a waste.

Much appreciated - thanks, Mathsorcerer!!!

Don't ever make a bet with a tiefling. - Planar proverb.