One thing I could never comprehend from a roleplaying perspective was that none of those ancient, heavily enchanted, stat raising tomes count as books of great value for re-entering Candlekeep. I mean, come on... are they really so commonly found along the Sword Coast that the Oghmanytes of that place consider such tomes to be worthless additions for their library?
The reason is that the monks aren't just looking for books of great value, they are looking for literature of great value. Meaning that even if a book was bound with covers in nothing but star sapphires and each page in purest platinum but with not a single word etched into them, they still wouldn't want it despite the uncomparable value in itself. Likewise the Manuals may have great value, but they have it because of the spell they're enchanted with, not because of the actual information on the pages (which might as well gibberish for the purpose of the enchantment). That makes them a lot less valuable to Candlekeep's mission than ordinary books of great value.
@egon You'd be a disasterous game designer or a dungeon master. If it were up to you we wouldn't need a computer game, we could just act it all out in our heads.
But basically if you don't like the tomes, can't you just not use them?
yep I'm not asking to steal your tomes, I just want to see theoretical alternatives or satisfying ways to roleplay stat increases.
So, with respect, why not simply imagine those reasons yourself? When you use the books, intentionally hold up in an Inn for 3 weeks on the premise that the books hold the secret knowledge of the ages on how to work out better, or be healthier or look more attractive or whatever and that you need to spend the time and do the work to gain any benefit. It doesn't have to be 'Tada-hey presto! you are improved' in one day. Role play it out.
You are asking for 'More role playing' solutions and suggest that (perfectly reasonably and intelligently) Charname meets X-hero who teaches him/her how to improve themselves. There are sentient swords. Why not a sentient Tome that speaks to the character who uses it? Why not have a 'Yoda-esque' book that rides around on his back and tells the impacted character how to better train, much like that entire scene from 'Empire strikes back' or in the same manner as some legendary hero might?
Quite a lot of Role playing must take place in the mind of the player. There have been a number of threads commenting (or complaining if you wish) about inconsistency of playing a Barbarian or druid as Charname because they wouldn't have the background growing up in Candlekeep. I've personally not found a class that I couldn't construct a plausible (to me) explanation for their background. It is all about imagination. That's all I'm saying. instead of seeing it as a problem, look at it as an opportunity for real role playing and imagination.
Granted that is my own personal opinion, but the thread is asking for personal opinions.
"You don't "consume" the tomes by picking them up..."
ok ok i get it you've been looking at the book's pages for a couple of days not making much out of it, so you decide it's stupid and worthless and chuck it into a campfire (consume it in the game) and immediately the words start coming together it all clicks in your head and you become wiser.
but it's kinda unimaginable that the scenario (one of post-throwaway flukish revelation) would repeat with other tomes
I assume the tome contains some sort of "activation mechanism", maybe a simple-worded spell that everyone can read, and the rest of the pages have information about the spell, what it does, what the user may want to consider (like most magical things have warnings somewhere) and so on. Once someone uses the spell, what remains are only instructions and that's quite worthless for others. Or maybe the use of the one spell charge requires the destruction of the book - burn it while saying the words, tear out the pages and arrange them in a circle around you, whatever.
But then, what do I know? I have no imagination and don't even understand anything. I can only state the obvious, like that Black Lily has eyes and stands right next to a barrel and would notice someone taking it out. If there's one thing I know about it's eyes.
But basically if you don't like the tomes, can't you just not use them?
yep I'm not asking to steal your tomes, I just want to see theoretical alternatives or satisfying ways to roleplay stat increases.
So, with respect, why not simply imagine those reasons yourself? When you use the books, intentionally hold up in an Inn for 3 weeks on the premise that the books hold the secret knowledge of the ages on how to work out better, or be healthier or look more attractive or whatever and that you need to spend the time and do the work to gain any benefit. It doesn't have to be 'Tada-hey presto! you are improved' in one day. Role play it out.
I already kinda do! That's why I'm asking for more ideas. I'd actually love to see a mod for this too.
You are asking for 'More role playing' solutions and suggest that (perfectly reasonably and intelligently) Charname meets X-hero who teaches him/her how to improve themselves. There are sentient swords. Why not a sentient Tome that speaks to the character who uses it? Why not have a 'Yoda-esque' book that rides around on his back and tells the impacted character how to better train, much like that entire scene from 'Empire strikes back' or in the same manner as some legendary hero might?
Well, I'd prefer mentor NPCs to a sentient tome. The idea of a sentient book doesn't really appeal to me, and I always thought some of the NPCs could use some more interaction, and having a mentor path with real, tangible ability benefits would kill two birds with one magic missile. Just my personal opinion
Quite a lot of Role playing must take place in the mind of the player. There have been a number of threads commenting (or complaining if you wish) about inconsistency of playing a Barbarian or druid as Charname because they wouldn't have the background growing up in Candlekeep. I've personally not found a class that I couldn't construct a plausible (to me) explanation for their background. It is all about imagination. That's all I'm saying. instead of seeing it as a problem, look at it as an opportunity for real role playing and imagination.
I'm one of those who don't like the Bhaalbarian idea, but I actually would like to hear your ideas. The only one I've thought of that I *might* buy into is if the barbarian was something like Wulfgar from the RA Salvatore novels, born to a tribe but then adopted by Gorion (like Bruenor). Yet even then Wulfgar spent some time maturing with his clan, while the Bhaalspawn was taken to Candlekeep as an infant.
I just can't really see Conan the Librarian having developed in that environment, but I'd love to hear your ideas on the matter
Granted that is my own personal opinion, but the thread is asking for personal opinions.
I'm glad you got that! I think the purpose of my post was somewhat lost in translation. I did *not* mean to request removal of the tomes, thats for sure. This isn't meant to be a feature request, just an interesting discussion. In retrospect, my title for this topic was poorly worded.
The reason is that the monks aren't just looking for books of great value, they are looking for literature of great value. Meaning that even if a book was bound with covers in nothing but star sapphires and each page in purest platinum but with not a single word etched into them, they still wouldn't want it despite the uncomparable value in itself. Likewise the Manuals may have great value, but they have it because of the spell they're enchanted with, not because of the actual information on the pages (which might as well gibberish for the purpose of the enchantment). That makes them a lot less valuable to Candlekeep's mission than ordinary books of great value.
It's the other way around, actually. Thanks to @Skaffen's insightful post, we now know that the tomes in question are so valuable due to the information they hold. The enchantment only prevents the recording of its content by the reader, followed by the immediately self-destruction of the tome after the prescribed stat gaining procedure is completed. As such, any of those books should indeed count as invaluable literature for pretty much everyone. The fact that such tomes can only be used by one person, and a single time no less, may make such works rather inapplicably for most libraries out there, though. But it's also true that the manuals would acquire collector's value to the scribes of Candlekeep.
IMO a magic spell bound to a magic book is a lot less stupid than doing some push ups for a single day and then suddenly becoming stronger. Magic I accept as part of the BG universe, becoming superhumanly strong after a single days exercise I do not.
If that were the case, wy doesn't EVERYONE have stats of 25?
I'd think the idea is more that you go from a relatively sheltered and calm life to one where you constantly fight for your life, march long distances carrying heavy gear, encounter a lot of people and lead a party into battle. It makes a certain amount of sense that after a few months of that you'd be a bit stronger, wiser, more durable and more charismatic.
Ehm, What has that got to do with anything in this thread, what so ever? We are talking about tomes that raises stats, remember?
Doesn't understand topic of thread. Accuses other poster of being off-topic.
But then, what do I know? I have no imagination and don't even understand anything. I can only state the obvious, like that Black Lily has eyes and stands right next to a barrel and would notice someone taking it out. If there's one thing I know about it's eyes.
Yeah, I have no interest in hearing from that poster again. Personally I find your point well taken. I guess its a lack of imagination to imagine that a merchant would actually have something she wants to sell available for sale . you know... in the market... that she runs... that sells stuff.
The reason is that the monks aren't just looking for books of great value, they are looking for literature of great value. Meaning that even if a book was bound with covers in nothing but star sapphires and each page in purest platinum but with not a single word etched into them, they still wouldn't want it despite the uncomparable value in itself. Likewise the Manuals may have great value, but they have it because of the spell they're enchanted with, not because of the actual information on the pages (which might as well gibberish for the purpose of the enchantment). That makes them a lot less valuable to Candlekeep's mission than ordinary books of great value.
The fact that such tomes can only be used by one person, and a single time no less, may make such works rather inapplicably for most libraries out there, though. But it's also true that the manuals would acquire collector's value to the scribes of Candlekeep.
agreed. the fact that Candlekeep is a depository for knowledge and information as well as a safe-heaven for learning and not a bookstore is a reasonable explanation for tomes not being accepted for entrance.
I may be forgetting something, but I always got the impression that they didn't want the Bhaalspawn back in Candlekeep because of the danger he might bring to the community (since he has assassins following him and ended up getting their most powerful citizen killed after running away) I may have just imagined that in my head, but it seemed to make more sense to me than "sorry, unless you give us the Tao Te Ching you can't go home"
Well, I'd prefer mentor NPCs to a sentient tome. The idea of a sentient book doesn't really appeal to me, and I always thought some of the NPCs could use some more interaction, and having a mentor path with real, tangible ability benefits would kill two birds with one magic missile. Just my personal opinion
So, if you don't mind the effect, you just differ on the delivery method, I'm not seeing why this is such a huge thing for you.
I'm one of those who don't like the Bhaalbarian idea, but I actually would like to hear your ideas. The only one I've thought of that I *might* buy into is if the barbarian was something like Wulfgar from the RA Salvatore novels, born to a tribe but then adopted by Gorion (like Bruenor). Yet even then Wulfgar spent some time maturing with his clan, while the Bhaalspawn was taken to Candlekeep as an infant.
I just can't really see Conan the Librarian having developed in that environment, but I'd love to hear your ideas on the matter
No one says that Charname has to be a librarian. As far as Barbi is concerned, it's quite simple:
Considering Charname's heritage, he was always a wild child. Growing up in Candlekeep, Gorion very quickly realized that Charname's talents did not lie along the paths of books and quiet contemplation, so he relied heavily on Hull and the Guard to train him in more martial disciplines. Over the years, even this turned out to be a challenge, until one day one of the guards, a Northman and a personal friend of Gorion, took Charname aside and told him a story. the story was all about the Northman's tribe and the great wolf hunt. Charname was fascinated by this story and begged the Northman to tell him more.
Over the next weeks and months, the two grew very close. The more stories the Northman told, the more Charname was enchanted. The Northman also took to giving tips and suggestions on combat techniques and eventually took over Charnames martial training, showing him how 'the old wise ones' of his tribe taught him when he was a boy.
Years past and Charname trained with the Northman. When it came time to hunt in the forests beyond the walls, the Northman would take charname on his trips and would teach him about the wild beasts and how to hunt them. He would tell stories around the campfire of great battles and of epic victories, and they would share the bounty of the kill.
Although charname never took to the training that the other boys and young men did in the guard under Hull, charname quickly made a name for himself as one of the toughest and most successful warrior inside the keep. And when the Northman was visited by his kin from the North, he and charname would spend hours around the fire and drink and tell stories.
And when the day of choice came around, the Northman taught charname how to perform the rites of passage into manhood as he was taught by his father. Under the direction of the Northman, Charname took the final rite of passage. Blood was struck, and Charname was made a warrior of the Wolf clan.
lol! Thas okay, I always feel too bad for poor Quallo anyway! tbh I usually just cluaconsole in the blood
Well... I suppose you could always imagine that you gathered the menstruation blood of that carrion crawler for Lilarcor's quest without harming "her".
I already kinda do! That's why I'm asking for more ideas. I'd actually love to see a mod for this too.
I guess what I am asking is, why do you need a mod for this?
because I'd like to play it out in the actual game. The same reason I like playing Baldur's Gate as opposed to just imagining the Bhaalspawn doing his thing in my head. I see that as like "why would they need to add Neera, Rasaad and Dorn? You could just make your own characters and imagine their personalities". Thats true, but actually having them in the game is far more enjoyable and makes your ideas far more realized
I'm one of those who don't like the Bhaalbarian idea, but I actually would like to hear your ideas. The only one I've thought of that I *might* buy into is if the barbarian was something like Wulfgar from the RA Salvatore novels, born to a tribe but then adopted by Gorion (like Bruenor). Yet even then Wulfgar spent some time maturing with his clan, while the Bhaalspawn was taken to Candlekeep as an infant.
I just can't really see Conan the Librarian having developed in that environment, but I'd love to hear your ideas on the matter
No one says that Charname has to be a librarian. As far as Barbi is concerned, it's quite simple:
Considering Charname's heritage, he was always a wild child. Growing up in Candlekeep, Gorion very quickly realized that Charname's talents did not lie along the paths of books and quiet contemplation, so he relied heavily on Hull and the Guard to train him in more martial disciplines. Over the years, even this turned out to be a challenge, until one day one of the guards, a Northman and a personal friend of Gorion, took Charname aside and told him a story. the story was all about the Northman's tribe and the great wolf hunt. Charname was fascinated by this story and begged the Northman to tell him more.
Over the next weeks and months, the two grew very close. The more stories the Northman told, the more Charname was enchanted. The Northman also took to giving tips and suggestions on combat techniques and eventually took over Charnames martial training, showing him how 'the old wise ones' of his tribe taught him when he was a boy.
Years past and Charname trained with the Northman. When it came time to hunt in the forests beyond the walls, the Northman would take charname on his trips and would teach him about the wild beasts and how to hunt them. He would tell stories around the campfire of great battles and of epic victories, and they would share the bounty of the kill.
Although charname never took to the training that the other boys and young men did in the guard under Hull, charname quickly made a name for himself as one of the toughest and most successful warrior inside the keep. And when the Northman was visited by his kin from the North, he and charname would spend hours around the fire and drink and tell stories.
And when the day of choice came around, the Northman taught charname how to perform the rites of passage into manhood as he was taught by his father. Under the direction of the Northman, Charname took the final rite of passage. Blood was struck, and Charname was made a warrior of the Wolf clan.
My problem with this is "Where is this Northman that had such a huge inlfuence on Charname?". The issue is that the game pretty much tells you that Gorion is the main influence on the Bhaalspawn's upbringing, and that other mentor-like figures exist in Candlekeep and the surrounding areas.
The Gatewarden and Jondalar are there, so they would train him in martial combat. There is a temple of Oghma, which would explain Clerics. Winthrop is also implied to be a thief. the Northman is nowhere to be seen. Even for other not-represented warrior classes, we still find potential trainers in the game. We saw rangers in the Candlekeep Coastway as well as Kivan and Minsc, and there is a Ajantis in the game as well as numerous non-joinable paladins (Bjornin, Vai, etc.). So I could see roleplaying charname as a general warrior who learned of the forest or about his deity from another character. No real barbarians that I can think of in the early game.
I'm not saying its wrong to use your imagination to such an extent, just that its pushing my personal limits of believability. I think the character you describe would be better described as a Berserker, since he may share some methods with the mentor you proposed, but his cultural heritage is quite different.
So while everything you said *can* be the case, I don't see much evidence in the actual game to support it. So I wont play a bhaalbarian, but if you like it, I got no problem with that!
@booinyoureyes - maybe "the Northman" died or went back to his clan in the north prior to the events of BG1. I had actually in my mind to write that he got gored in the last outing but that felt too much like Game of thrones.
At the end of the day, there isn't a single aspect of BG or D&D or any RPG game out there that someone with the right mind set can't shoot holes in it till the cows come home. If you are set on finding the flaws, you are gonna find them. I prefer to see the opportunities. But then that's me.
I already kinda do! That's why I'm asking for more ideas. I'd actually love to see a mod for this too.
I guess what I am asking is, why do you need a mod for this?
Because why not? There are mods for just about everything, why not an alternative way to increase stats for those who really dislike tomes or just want more NPC interaction? As said above; two birds, one stone. With the exception of Kivan or Jaheira, who are already popular/interesting personalities, the other mentors I suggested all fall short in that department. Kagain is popular due to his stats, but not his lines or personality. Safana is overshadowed by Imoen; even many evil parties keep her or take Monty or Shar-Teel. Branwen has a hard time keeping up with Yeslick/Jaheira (as the good party go-to healers) and even more Viconia. Xan, despite the popularity of Skull Trap, is still stuck with "can't cast Fireball" and often not taken in favor of... nearly any other caster; Dynaheir because "canon party", Edwin because "more spell slots", Neera because "new content/romance/quest". They all could use some more depth, and a mentor path would add that. There are other mods that add banters or romance paths. A mentor mod would add both dialogue and a new roleplay angle, and an additional mechanical gain/reward.
I don't think a roleplayer needs a mod for anything. In doubt, you can always EEkeep changed stats and make up your own dialogue. But it's still a convenient thing to have such a mod.
Hah, I too misinterpreted your intent with this thread (thought you were bashing tomes). Well, a thing to consider about these alternatives is that the rule system doesn't count with increasing your attributes in natural way. It basically assumes, that everyone is running around at their absolute physical and mental maximum. The only way to increase them is allowed only through powerful magical means. That's a limitation of the system, same as proficiency restrictions and others.
I think that if you'd like to introduce the naturally increasing stats factor into the game, you'd have to cover a lot more areas, than just several specific instances, otherwise it could break the immersion. I personally think that non-magical means of increasing stats are really not very plausible within this particular rule system. I would recommend to keep to the tomes and play with them. Move them to some more appropriate places, delay the effect, etc...
@pecca I was actually looking to discuss alternative ability-raising methods (that was the purpose of this thread), but in a way I kinda am bashing tomes too. Truth is, I just don't like the idea of set-in-stone abilities. I always liked the fact that there were three tomes of understanding, while only one of the others, since I can role-play it as "wisdom increases with more life experience". I just can't imagine wisdom having a mental maximum, and I enjoy the later D&D editions where you could add abilities upon leveling up.
and I enjoy the later D&D editions where you could add abilities upon leveling up.
I personally dislike this aspect of later versions probably to the same degree you dislike the Tomes. I don't have a problem with increasing stats, just if there are no practical maximums, say for STR and DEX, having magical monsters that are supposed to be the pinnacle of said abilities (ogres, giants) with lower stats than humans just makes zero sense to me.
If I want to make a Wulfgar type character, I never can in 3E because no matter what, any and every STR based fighter type with more than 4 levels under his belt will be guaranteed to have a higher strength than my 1st level Barbarian.
I don't think a roleplayer needs a mod for anything.
^^ the whole of my point.
Yeah, but by that logic I don't think a roleplayer needs a videogame for anything either...
Reductio ad absurdum?
Well if we're going to play the silly internet game of "logical fallacy tennis" then this is a response to the false dichotomy you proposed between your vanilla game and someone else's modded game that includes mentoring paths.
Simple answer: I would want a mod because I want it
Person A: I like spaghetti with meatballs Person B: I like spaghetti with Alfredo sauce, therefore Person A shouldn't have his with meatballs
Clearly things went too far. No offense was intended. If you want a mod, I hope someone makes one for you. It's a game and I personally hope everyone can play it and have as much fun at it as I do. Peace.
@the_spyder I didn't take offense at all actually, and definitely did not think you intended to offend! Bah, silly internet discourse and its limitations...
The tome of wisdom is OK from a role playing view, since it says it contains a LOT of historical information you can learn of. And the INT book can be justified, but it is pretty strange too. Then, I prefer @booinyoureyes suggestions much more, like attribute gaining in PS:T is (they take away your scars, +1 to charisma!!!) without leveling up/magical means.
I actually think the Strongholds might be a good way to implement this.
-A ranger can meet Merella's old mentor, who is in mourning and wants to find a new student he can train to be better
-Volo comes to visit your playhouse and teaches your bard a thing or two
-One of Keldorn's superiors (if not Keldorn himself) takes you as a squire in the Mostest Noble Order of the Mostest Radiant Heart
-Some powerful wizard from the Forgotten Realms takes note of your Planar Sphere and comes to study with you every once in awhile
-The retired general of De'Arnise Keep will teach you some old soldier's tricks if you bring his spirits up (remember, he retires in sadness/shame after the troll attack and him getting charmed)
=The head Morninglord/Stormlorder/Watcher helps you to find Jesus
-Umm... The Spirit of the Forest in the Druid Grove Cave teaches you about nature and trees and stuff
I think these could work
PS: On a somewhat unrelated note, I would love to see a unique Monk, Barbarian, Blackguard and even Sorcerer or Wild Mage stronghold.
Comments
You'd be a disasterous game designer or a dungeon master.
If it were up to you we wouldn't need a computer game, we could just act it all out in our heads.
You are asking for 'More role playing' solutions and suggest that (perfectly reasonably and intelligently) Charname meets X-hero who teaches him/her how to improve themselves. There are sentient swords. Why not a sentient Tome that speaks to the character who uses it? Why not have a 'Yoda-esque' book that rides around on his back and tells the impacted character how to better train, much like that entire scene from 'Empire strikes back' or in the same manner as some legendary hero might?
Quite a lot of Role playing must take place in the mind of the player. There have been a number of threads commenting (or complaining if you wish) about inconsistency of playing a Barbarian or druid as Charname because they wouldn't have the background growing up in Candlekeep. I've personally not found a class that I couldn't construct a plausible (to me) explanation for their background. It is all about imagination. That's all I'm saying. instead of seeing it as a problem, look at it as an opportunity for real role playing and imagination.
Granted that is my own personal opinion, but the thread is asking for personal opinions.
But then, what do I know? I have no imagination and don't even understand anything. I can only state the obvious, like that Black Lily has eyes and stands right next to a barrel and would notice someone taking it out. If there's one thing I know about it's eyes.
I'm one of those who don't like the Bhaalbarian idea, but I actually would like to hear your ideas. The only one I've thought of that I *might* buy into is if the barbarian was something like Wulfgar from the RA Salvatore novels, born to a tribe but then adopted by Gorion (like Bruenor). Yet even then Wulfgar spent some time maturing with his clan, while the Bhaalspawn was taken to Candlekeep as an infant.
I just can't really see Conan the Librarian having developed in that environment, but I'd love to hear your ideas on the matter I'm glad you got that! I think the purpose of my post was somewhat lost in translation. I did *not* mean to request removal of the tomes, thats for sure. This isn't meant to be a feature request, just an interesting discussion. In retrospect, my title for this topic was poorly worded.
edit: I changed the title now for clarification
Accuses other poster of being off-topic. Yeah, I have no interest in hearing from that poster again. Personally I find your point well taken. I guess its a lack of imagination to imagine that a merchant would actually have something she wants to sell available for sale . you know... in the market... that she runs... that sells stuff.
I may be forgetting something, but I always got the impression that they didn't want the Bhaalspawn back in Candlekeep because of the danger he might bring to the community (since he has assassins following him and ended up getting their most powerful citizen killed after running away) I may have just imagined that in my head, but it seemed to make more sense to me than "sorry, unless you give us the Tao Te Ching you can't go home"
... I'm sure Lilarcor doesn't like you either!
Considering Charname's heritage, he was always a wild child. Growing up in Candlekeep, Gorion very quickly realized that Charname's talents did not lie along the paths of books and quiet contemplation, so he relied heavily on Hull and the Guard to train him in more martial disciplines. Over the years, even this turned out to be a challenge, until one day one of the guards, a Northman and a personal friend of Gorion, took Charname aside and told him a story. the story was all about the Northman's tribe and the great wolf hunt. Charname was fascinated by this story and begged the Northman to tell him more.
Over the next weeks and months, the two grew very close. The more stories the Northman told, the more Charname was enchanted. The Northman also took to giving tips and suggestions on combat techniques and eventually took over Charnames martial training, showing him how 'the old wise ones' of his tribe taught him when he was a boy.
Years past and Charname trained with the Northman. When it came time to hunt in the forests beyond the walls, the Northman would take charname on his trips and would teach him about the wild beasts and how to hunt them. He would tell stories around the campfire of great battles and of epic victories, and they would share the bounty of the kill.
Although charname never took to the training that the other boys and young men did in the guard under Hull, charname quickly made a name for himself as one of the toughest and most successful warrior inside the keep. And when the Northman was visited by his kin from the North, he and charname would spend hours around the fire and drink and tell stories.
And when the day of choice came around, the Northman taught charname how to perform the rites of passage into manhood as he was taught by his father. Under the direction of the Northman, Charname took the final rite of passage. Blood was struck, and Charname was made a warrior of the Wolf clan.
The Gatewarden and Jondalar are there, so they would train him in martial combat. There is a temple of Oghma, which would explain Clerics. Winthrop is also implied to be a thief. the Northman is nowhere to be seen.
Even for other not-represented warrior classes, we still find potential trainers in the game. We saw rangers in the Candlekeep Coastway as well as Kivan and Minsc, and there is a Ajantis in the game as well as numerous non-joinable paladins (Bjornin, Vai, etc.). So I could see roleplaying charname as a general warrior who learned of the forest or about his deity from another character. No real barbarians that I can think of in the early game.
I'm not saying its wrong to use your imagination to such an extent, just that its pushing my personal limits of believability. I think the character you describe would be better described as a Berserker, since he may share some methods with the mentor you proposed, but his cultural heritage is quite different.
So while everything you said *can* be the case, I don't see much evidence in the actual game to support it. So I wont play a bhaalbarian, but if you like it, I got no problem with that!
At the end of the day, there isn't a single aspect of BG or D&D or any RPG game out there that someone with the right mind set can't shoot holes in it till the cows come home. If you are set on finding the flaws, you are gonna find them. I prefer to see the opportunities. But then that's me.
I don't think a roleplayer needs a mod for anything. In doubt, you can always EEkeep changed stats and make up your own dialogue. But it's still a convenient thing to have such a mod.
I think that if you'd like to introduce the naturally increasing stats factor into the game, you'd have to cover a lot more areas, than just several specific instances, otherwise it could break the immersion. I personally think that non-magical means of increasing stats are really not very plausible within this particular rule system. I would recommend to keep to the tomes and play with them. Move them to some more appropriate places, delay the effect, etc...
the whole of my point. I personally dislike this aspect of later versions probably to the same degree you dislike the Tomes. I don't have a problem with increasing stats, just if there are no practical maximums, say for STR and DEX, having magical monsters that are supposed to be the pinnacle of said abilities (ogres, giants) with lower stats than humans just makes zero sense to me.
If I want to make a Wulfgar type character, I never can in 3E because no matter what, any and every STR based fighter type with more than 4 levels under his belt will be guaranteed to have a higher strength than my 1st level Barbarian.
Simple answer: I would want a mod because I want it
Person A: I like spaghetti with meatballs
Person B: I like spaghetti with Alfredo sauce, therefore Person A shouldn't have his with meatballs
Bah, silly internet discourse and its limitations...
And the INT book can be justified, but it is pretty strange too.
Then, I prefer @booinyoureyes suggestions much more, like attribute gaining in PS:T is (they take away your scars, +1 to charisma!!!) without leveling up/magical means.
-A ranger can meet Merella's old mentor, who is in mourning and wants to find a new student he can train to be better
-Volo comes to visit your playhouse and teaches your bard a thing or two
-One of Keldorn's superiors (if not Keldorn himself) takes you as a squire in the Mostest Noble Order of the Mostest Radiant Heart
-Some powerful wizard from the Forgotten Realms takes note of your Planar Sphere and comes to study with you every once in awhile
-The retired general of De'Arnise Keep will teach you some old soldier's tricks if you bring his spirits up (remember, he retires in sadness/shame after the troll attack and him getting charmed)
=The head Morninglord/Stormlorder/Watcher helps you to find Jesus
-Umm... The Spirit of the Forest in the Druid Grove Cave teaches you about nature and trees and stuff
I think these could work
PS: On a somewhat unrelated note, I would love to see a unique Monk, Barbarian, Blackguard and even Sorcerer or Wild Mage stronghold.