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Familiars. Worth it?

What the title says. Rolling a mage, want to know if there's any benefit to dragging a familiar around with me or whether they're just a burden + waste of a spell slot. First instinct on looking at the spell description is to think they're more trouble than they're worth. Thoughts?
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  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    I keep them in my pack, and accept the minor hitpoints. It's just one inventory spot for what, 12 HPs? I'll take it. Occasionally I talk to them, and they say cute things. If you keep it out and doing combat, you're almost inevitably going to lose that one con eventually to familiar death. But in your pack, it's not going to hurt anything. Occasionally I'll take like, my cat out to pickpocket. I know some people soloing BG1 have managed to get further with their familiar then without.

    I would never take it as a level up scroll/a sorcerer spell, though, and I doubt I'd even scribe it as a wizard. If you leave it in your pack, you're never going to need more then one casting of it.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Some of them actually make useful party members at very, very low levels. If they die, you die though.

    For the most part they are indeed a straight swap of 1 inventory slot for some HP though.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited January 2014
    As has been stated already, the HP boost is absolutely worth the 1 slot in your inventory. And if you find the scroll, you literally lose nothing but that one slot, so where's the down side? And really scribing the spell into your book doesn't hurt anything either. Once you get that +1 INT, your "Max" spells for 1st level jumps. And if it doesn't jump to max, merely drink a Genius potion whenever you are writing a new spell and they stick around after the potion is gone. So no loss.

    Personally, I take the spell at character creation. I do not recommend others do this but I do it because I am more of a role player (and a horrible player too boot). My Wizard "Has" to have every single spell that he can cast in his spell book. And it helps when transitioning between BG1 and 2 (only very slightly because I think you can get the scroll in Irenicus' dungeon). But it is absolutely flavor at that point.

    I have also played around with some of them. They have some nice low level abilities that can benefit. But just don't have them out during combat (or be prepared to reload). It's cool to have a cat sneak as a spy, or have your familiar pick pockets or open the odd trap. You just have to be very careful. I've also heard that some familiars can solo wolves at level 1, so....

    In case it isn't clear, Familiars are not throw away summonables. If they die, you permanently lose 1 point of CON. And I also don't recommend memorizing the spell for Sorcerers, because you end up with a useless slot. But if you have the scroll?? why not?

    I'd personally love it if they leveled up with the player. Then they'd be absolutely essential to a budding mage. But then they would probably be OP.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Half and half.
    Cats rock in BG:EE, they gets some sort of useless in BG2:EE.
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    edited January 2014
    As @the_spyder said, there is no real downside, so why not?

    That said, some familiars are better than others. The Pseudo Dragon (Lawful Good) is not half-bad in the very early game thanks to regeneration and good AC. The Imp (Lawful Evil) is pretty useful thanks to shape-shifting into more powerful forms. The Ferret (Lawful Neutral) seems useless beyond its hp bonus (also makes no sense RP-wise to give a Lawful character an animal associated with theft).
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438
    I like to take them around to pad my Hit Points! So, I find them useful.
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225
    It's 12 hitpoints for the price of a single inventory space. That's a good deal. If you're a Fighter/Mage (Dual or Multi), with decent CON, then you'll be very healthy.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    About the scroll: Write it for the XP and then erase it after casting it.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    @Heindrich1988
    The Dust Mephit (Neutral Evil) is also great. Glass Dust and Glitterdust!
  • nanonano Member Posts: 1,632
    edited January 2014
    I think Edwin should get an awesomely powerful familiar that ends up polymorphed into something lame like a squirrel, to reflect Edwin's own attempts at self-improvement.

    or maybe it's lame to begin with and Edwin tries to improve it but only makes it worse. I guess that fits better.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Worth mentioning that 12 hp is quite a lot for a caster, even with a con of 16+. Once you go above level 9 and only get 1 hp per level, those extra 12 will drastically reduce your time below 60/90 hp and thus your window of vulnerability to Power Word Kill and Power Word Stun. With SCS especially, enemy mages love using the latter one on your casters.
  • broonofmidoribroonofmidori Member Posts: 32
    The familiar is worth it, because you can get a scroll early on in BG:EE. It is free hit points for essentially taking up on inventory slot. A couple of them have some useful buffs you can use at low level. Take them out, buff your caster, and than put them back in your backpack. You don't have to worry about them ever dying that way.

    For mages, wild mage, or whatever specialty you decide to go with it doesn't really cost you anything if you pick the spell on character creation. You should have, or eventually have enough intelligence that it doesn't take up a slot used for something else.

    For a sorcerer, like I said, you can find a scroll or scrolls to cast your familiar since you only have/need to cast it once.

    It also works for Bards! Don't forget that!

    Like I said before, it is essentially free hit points for just giving up an inventory slot!
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438
    deltago said:

    About the scroll: Write it for the XP and then erase it after casting it.

    aw hell son, why didn't I think of that?! Ehh, doing a Dragon Disciple playthrough on EE, now, though...maybe when I use my real life scores from that one thread I made!
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903

    The Ferret (Lawful Neutral) seems useless beyond its hp bonus (also makes no sense RP-wise to give a Lawful character an animal associated with theft).

    The Ferret actually has a decent pickpocket ability, so it can grab you some nice items in the game if you don't have a bard or a thief with a decent pickpocket score.
  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 903
    Most familiars are immune to petrification. This is a great benefit!

    If you're fighting basilisks or some similar creature, just push your familiar out in front. The basilisks stupidly will focus their petrification stares on the little fella, whilst your party members can barrage them with missile weapons.

    Be sure to have the familiar run away if the basilisks decide to get physical, though...
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,754
    I'd like to quote @Pantalion at first:

    As it stands, familiars are too fragile and too important to use in combat situations, so it's only pick pocket, scouting and spells that have merit, this leaves the Ferret, Fairy Dragon - Scouting is great with invisibility 10', but you can get that spell yourself, and the Cat. The Imp gets honourable mention for the polymorph spell.

    For the Fairy Dragon, a once per day Invisibility 10' Radius works out as an extra level 4 spell; useful, but obsolescent, and since it's once per day, that rather disqualifies it from a realistic scouting role. The same applies to all the spellcaster familiars, the value of one or two spells per day when a mage can end up with all the spells they need, it's a temporary bonus that starts great and loses value.

    Likewise, whilst the Imp is pretty well top tier early BG, polymorph doesn't increase its health overmuch, so in the end it's one hit away from being a Constitution penalty.

    Since pickpocketing without reloading is dangerous when targeted at anyone it may have a chance of failure against, that's a sizeable blow against the Ferret, which can never auto-succeed or improve its chances beyond 75%; so the main use of the Ferret would be for interparty pick pocketting, which, with patience and an unarmed participant, is effectively automatic.

    This leaves the cat, which has a 99% stealth chance. At early levels, it can backstab to support you, arguably giving it the potential to be one of the overall best damaging familiars, whilst its ability to stealth and scout - assuming you practice some caution and avoid trap hotspots - is always useful, as is the 50% MR, which gives it a chance even if you do fluff avoiding the traps.


    Personally, I don't risk using familiar - it just sits there with magical treasures in the bag. It's so important for a mage to get an HP boost but it's very fragile.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    They have some usefulness in BG1 and they're always good to boost hp, that's it.
    The game begs for a Improved Familiar spell.
  • ChildofBhaal599ChildofBhaal599 Member Posts: 1,781
    better be worth it because my f/t is getting one today :)
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    jackjack said:

    The bond that can't be broken:
    "Who's a good familiar? You are, you are!"

    Yes, @Eudaemonium is such a fine familiar! *throws fireball into backpack*

    ...

    I meant a fireball SCROLL.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    nano said:

    I think Edwin should get an awesomely powerful familiar that ends up polymorphed into something lame like a squirrel, to reflect Edwin's own attempts at self-improvement.

    or maybe it's lame to begin with and Edwin tries to improve it but only makes it worse. I guess that fits better.

    ...or the familiar turns out more powerful than him, but he can't kill it because he doesn't want to lose the con point?
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344

    They have some usefulness in BG1 and they're always good to boost hp, that's it.
    The game begs for a Improved Familiar spell.

    Yeah, it would obviously be nice with familiars that were fun to actually use and not just keep for hp. Just not sure what kind of niche they would end up filling without turning into portable thieves or bodyguards.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018

    The Ferret (Lawful Neutral) seems useless beyond its hp bonus (also makes no sense RP-wise to give a Lawful character an animal associated with theft).

    Why so? Considering that "lawful" alignment is in no way tied to 'The law'. It's perfectly reasonable (and within the guidelines of the game) to play a Lawful neutral or evil thief. So...

  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959

    The Ferret (Lawful Neutral) seems useless beyond its hp bonus (also makes no sense RP-wise to give a Lawful character an animal associated with theft).

    Why so? Considering that "lawful" alignment is in no way tied to 'The law'. It's perfectly reasonable (and within the guidelines of the game) to play a Lawful neutral or evil thief. So...

    @the_spyder

    I know the distinction between Lawful and legal law, and wrote about it on a number of threads.

    A bit off-topic:

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/447715

    "Lawful ==> Chaotic is just a measure of attitudes to Order and Individuality, which are concepts that objectively infer no moral goodness or evil. Adherence to, or otherwise, to legal law, is only a superificial 'symptom' of underlying values and attitudes."


    However, theft, regardless of legal law, is a questionable action for a character who cares about order and harmony in society. And I maybe wrong, but I am pretty sure that you cannot create a Lawful Thief in BG. You can create a Good thief, like Imoen, but he/she cannot be Lawful.

    Even if by some convoluted reasoning, you justified a particular Lawful character into carrying out a theft, that doesn't make it any less odd that a Lawful Neutral character, which is basically the most Lawful you can get (since you are not influenced by Good or Evil intentions in your actions) gets given a familiar associated specifically with theft. It's like giving a Good character an Imp. Sure... the Imp might be benevolent and helpful, but that doesn't make it any less illogical as a default setting. In the case of familiars, it's made all the worse by the fact that you can't change/choose your familiar. The result is that my LN Charname never takes his familiar outta the pack, which is a bit of a shame.

  • PantalionPantalion Member Posts: 2,137
    @the_spyder

    Note that in AD&D 2e there is in fact a direct, if loose, tie in to Lawful behaviour and Thievery, owing to a Lawful Good alignment restriction.

    As it is, Lawful gets all the crazy familiars. Lawful Neutral? Best law-breaking familiar. Lawful Evil? Best familiar at changing its shape into other things.

    But yeah, Cat's still the best. One thing I previously didn't fully appreciate is that they get petrification immunity, so they can tank basilisks for you, a bonus not actually shared by the Evil familiar set, so a major step up over the Imp.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Heinrich1988 - I wholly disagree. A Lawfully aligned character might very well be 'Ordered' in their outlook, but this in no way means that they will follow any given concept of ethics such as "Stealing is bad". That would be more a question of good versus evil, not lawful versus chaos. At the end of the day a Lawful character follows their own 'Code of conduct', or that of an order they belong to. that code is just as likely to have theft as being perfectly acceptable as not.

    @Pantalion - No, there is no direct correlation. A Lawful Good might find stealing distasteful, that's reasonable (but not a guaranteed thing). But not because they are "Lawful" per say. And it by no way correlates that a Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil will have ANY qualms with thievery even if a Lawful Good person does. Certainly it isn't the "Lawful" compulsion that drives or restricts 'Thievery'.

    The rules clearly allow for Lawfully aligned thieves, thus throwing out any and all arguments that the rules preclude thievery for lawfuls.

    Again Lawful does not equal The law or legal systems of any kind.

    My personal favorite of the familiars is the quasit. of course the representation in the game is nothing at all like the quasit in PnP, which is Hugely OP.
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180

    nano said:

    I think Edwin should get an awesomely powerful familiar that ends up polymorphed into something lame like a squirrel, to reflect Edwin's own attempts at self-improvement.

    or maybe it's lame to begin with and Edwin tries to improve it but only makes it worse. I guess that fits better.

    ...or the familiar turns out more powerful than him, but he can't kill it because he doesn't want to lose the con point?
    He should have an evil hamster called Boob just to annoy Minsc. However, his hamster falls in love with Boo and doesnt listen to him.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    edited January 2014
    bbear said:

    He should have an evil hamster called Boob(s) just to annoy Minsc. However, his hamster falls in love with Boo and doesnt listen to him.

    with a name like that, it could be a quasit who is actually an aspiring succubus.

    Sorry, I think I've been watching too much 'Archer'.

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