Despite i must confess that when i was young i haven't never finished Icewind Dale 2, because i never defeat Isair and Madae i was a noob and i really never learn how to dispell and magic combat, i simply put all the buffs on my characters and jump on them! I never never never defeat them
@booinyoureyes - fair enough. Where I see a flawed, human character as being a more intriguing and interesting villain, you merely see flaws. Its a fair point of view.
I would make one small observation. I may have miss-represented myself when I was talking about him getting captured. I don't think it was a plan all along. Far from it, I think that he was making the best of the situation. The Shadowthieves had attacked and all but destroyed his base. Charname had, for the moment, escaped his grasp, and he was looking at having to potentially fight not only the Coweled wizards, but also a Bhaalspawn of unknown strength. While, I think "He thought" that he could ultimately overcome those odds, why not instead try something else.
And he didn't "let the Bhaalspawn that he needed, go." He had several schemes by which he could observe, manipulate and even control Charname. He potentially had an agent in Charname's party. He had Imoen in his grasp and presumably (strongly hinted at during various points in the plot) a magical connection via her to Charname. Certainly he also had created reasons for Charname to seek him out. And Bodhi was also in the area keeping an eye on Charname. I think he even alludes to all of this in his speech in Spellhold, that he intended to let Charname free reign and draw him in.
I see it as this. Base gone, he grabbed Imoen and went willingly (if not strictly accordingly to plan) with the Coweled wizards so that he would have time to plan.
but enough said on the topic. This is all my humble speculation on the topic.
@the_spyder I agree that he is the best character of all (though perhaps I prefer Sarevok). I actually wish he played a bigger role in the TOB with the other two. Which is why I think Ascension is basically the best mod ever. Him being clumsy and screwing up occasionally does not mean I dislike him. I like Voldemort, but he was arguably the dumbest villain.
lol, off topic: Remember Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire?
Voldemort's plan: a. make sure that Harry qualifies for a tournament he does not meet the legal requirements for b. make sure Harry survives the incredibly dangerous tournament (because you know.. Harry being alive is super important for me) c. make sure Harry reaches the cup, which we turned into a Portkey, alone in the end of the final round so that he can teleport in front of me so i can kill him d. i will ensure these highly unlikely events take place through my secret agent posing as Madeye Moony
My plan if I was an evil wizard: a. instead of making the prize cup that is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get the portkey, I make it a pencil or some other easily accessible, seemingly innocuous item b. i have my secret agent Moody have Harry come to his office. "Hey Harry, can you pass me that pencil?" c. "sure, professor... OH SHIT ITS VOLDEM- "Avada kadavera" d. I win
I want to throw some love Belhifet's way, just because I found Icewind Dale to be the darkest and bleakest of the games mentioned, and a lot of terrible things are done at his behest, but you never know he's the big bad until quite late in the game. When you finally meet him, he has a very creepy voice, and his disguise as a priest of suffering seems fitting somehow. I was also intrigued by his relationship with his female elf lieutenant (Maiden something) but I never got far enough into Icewind Dale 2 to learn more of it, sadly.
Has to be the 'Vok. He's so likeable as a bad guy I would pay good money to play a Baldur's Gate game from his perspective. He has so much personality, he could have been the main protagonist himself! Easily one of the most well thought out, well designed, intriguing antagonists in video game history.
Take away his evil spiky armour and you see a life full of tragedy, violence, ambition, love and sorrow.
I want to throw some love Belhifet's way, just because I found Icewind Dale to be the darkest and bleakest of the games mentioned, and a lot of terrible things are done at his behest, but you never know he's the big bad until quite late in the game. When you finally meet him, he has a very creepy voice, and his disguise as a priest of suffering seems fitting somehow. I was also intrigued by his relationship with his female elf lieutenant (Maiden something) but I never got far enough into Icewind Dale 2 to learn more of it, sadly.
That would be Maiden Ilmadia, I think. She gave birth to Isair and Madae there's more on the Forgotten Realms wiki about this.
He has the cool sprite that goes "come here" and his hand beckons you to come in reach of his sword.
Sometimes Irenicus looks like he is imagining that he is about to catch that awesome wave.
...
Something to think about.
I agree @Anduin. Does anyone else give him that "Armored Figure" sprite in TOB with eeKeeper (or shadowkeeper)? I totally did in my latest game. He looks so menacing walking by little ole' Jan Jansen, lol.
Have to go with Sarevok. The whole of BG revolves around his plot and his growing grudge against you as the one that got away. Kevin Michael Richardson also nails the role, simultaneously playing the villain and narrating the story.
To Irenicus, all you are is a spell component. There is nothing personal there.
Never finished ToB so can't really comment much on the guys from that... but yeah, Irenicus goes down as one of my all-time favorite bad guys... a great example of how complete and utter amorality can be just as good, if not an even better, antagonist than the Evil-Lord-of-Doom.
Hah, I love it how Irenicus and Sarevok are the only ones that got votes. Planescape (TONE) would have gotten some but of course icewind dale series got no votes. Im almost finished with NwNights SOU and im sure that that medusa is real cute. Personally, the only villains you get a chance to know are Sarevok (moderate amount) and irenicus (a lot) The transcendent one I still find that you didn't get to know enough.
So basically those 2 villains (bg) are the only ones you really get to know whatsoever. All the other D&D villains were just not very good. There are many villains in other games but they are outside D and D.
@DKnight I wouldn't say they're not very good, (in fact they're all quite evil xD), it's just that this, like all polls, is a choice of one - nobody's going to vote for their second or third favorite antagonist. The cream rises to the top, but that doesn't make the rest flotsam.
Well I wont say they are really bad. But just that Ive seen better non-d and d antagonists in video games rpgs. Kotor 1 for example. You build up this confrontation with Malak throughout the game and it festers as to you thinking-Just how tough is this pos? Or will I want to take his place?
Baldurs gate had 2 of the best antagonists for game 1 and 2. Game 1, you have a warrior that has pushed himself to the utmost. Sarevok will always be my favorite antagonist. Irenicus is more calculating and has more of a game of cat and mouse. He is just as good as sarevok and better in some ways.
Im just saying that the other bad guys in the other d and d games don't come close to Bg. So that's why I only really play baldurs gate. In my opinion the other d and d games just don't offer 1 or even 2 things that my favorite game set doesn't do better.
The only other d and d game both turnbased and real time I can stomache is planescape.
Irenicus- because I felt he really made me hate him with what he did to both me as CHARNAME and Imoen, torturing us, taking our souls, and especially what he did to Imoen's Spirit. You know, Sarevok is a bad guy, but I didn't really hate him the way I did Irenicus. Irenicus is in your dreams and visions, warping Imoen and trying to do the same to you. Defeating and killing him felt so much more satisfying than taking on Sarevok and his friends. Even Bodhi didn't come in for as much hate from me, mainly because we don't get to see what she is doing and accomplishing behind the scenes as much as we do Jon Irenicus. The visions you have in Shadows of Amn? They made me HURT for Imoen, in a way I never felt for any other character, not even my own.
I always thought that the visions in Shadows of Amn were pretty metaphorical. I thought Imoen represented yourself, your soul, and your Bhaal Essence took the form of Irenicus because of the trauma he inflicted on you. I mean, Irenicus is in Spellhold, doing gods-awful things to Imoen for sure, but he can't touch you from within the anti-magic asylum. The way Irenicus speaks in the dreams, the way he wants you to unleash your power, it always made more sense to me that it was really your Bhaal Essence trying to turn you bad. What does Irenicus care for unlocking your power if he's just gonna eat your soul anyway? Unless he wants to shape the soul beforehand so it's at its greatest potential, but that seems like a bit of a stretch. *shrugs*
I know she's not on the list, but my evil Charname had a real bone to pick with Bhodi after she betrayed him.
"What... Do you mean... You're Irenicus's SISTER!?"
Once that Slayer bug's fixed, there's gonna be some hell to pay.
Sarevok because he knew his sit. And pretty well, too! Also, he had two girls wagging their tails for him, exceptional strength, grandiose ambition, cunning plans, crazy tactics, a bad childhood, two handed sword, imposing armor, and bloodthirsty will to chop down others because of all these! Nothing could go wrong for him, except maybe for meeting us...
And most importantly, him joining our party at the end! Even having an alignment change! Even showing brotherly love (does not betray us, even without a geas!)!
I voted Irenicus, and it's for three simple reasons:
1. David Warner. This requires no explanation.
2. The Dream Sequences. Whether it's metaphorical or not (I agree with Nonnahswriter), the dream sequences in BG2 are amazing. They feature Irenicus, and even if it's not really Irenicus, they do SO MUCH to expose him to you and hammer home his villainy. If the BG1 dreams had done this with Sarevok, it might have been a closer competition, but the BG1 dreams have nothing on the BG2 dreams, and that's probably the biggest reason why Sarevok has nothing on Irenicus.
3. Exposure to the Villain. The best villains have great interactions between the hero and the villain that lead to the climactic confrontation. These are often very difficult to get right (and if you'd like to see it done as badly as humanly possible, play through Diablo 3). In BG1, the intro scene is awesome, and your first encounter with Sarevok is excellent; it's a classic "Run for your life" cutscene where somebody sacrifices their life so that the hero can get away. But after that first cutscene, I don't think BG1 does his character a lot of favors. They chose to go with an "unravel the mystery" angle, which is great, but doesn't lend itself to a deep dive into the villain's character. BG2 does the villain exposure very well. I'm sometimes iffy about why I get to see some of the cutscenes with him and Imoen in Spellhold (and the cutscenes in the Underdark/Elven City), but the stuff between Irenicus and Charname are all handled incredibly well, I feel.
Icasaracht, and if I could pick a close second, Belhifet!
Both are the most suprising moments I´ve ever had with the last boss in infinity engine/neverwinter games. Makes me want to play again, unlike Sarevok - the final confrontation is just awful, he is so overpowering in melee terms, likewise Irenicus is nearly impossible in challenge rating as a mage, and Amelyssan has the best of both worlds. Unlike Isair and Madae, whom where almost effortless the last time around... the bosses in Neverwinter 1 + expansions were easier (less load games) than dragons in those games.
Edit: a little coolness factor for Heurodis for a battle atop a flying city - would have been so satisfying if the player could have gained control of it like the strongholds from SoA... and for Sarrukh (or was it Mearagh?!) for being a dinosaur. Mephistopheles was awe-inspiring for a tactical flight - fire & ice + summons showdown.
I definitely enjoy the battle against Sarevok more than vs. Irenicus. Moreso re: Amellysan. I used to play BGT, and I think I was sometimes getting a little weary by the time I got to the end of SoA; ditto ToB.
I don't think I ever finished the other games, though I do own them all.
Heurodis is by far my least-favourite villain. I've never been too big into NWN and the story of SoU wasn't thrilling either, so I didn't pay too much attention after some time. I thought she was just a somwhat tougher monster and was starting to hope things spice up a bit now when suddenly the closing credits came rolling...
Irenicus. It's not even close. He's got the coolest voice acting and his 'You're just an insect' attitude just made me hate him. It was far and away the most satisfying ending of any game when I finally witnessed his plummet into that lake of fire!
Comments
Despite i must confess that when i was young i haven't never finished Icewind Dale 2, because i never defeat Isair and Madae
What a shame
I would make one small observation. I may have miss-represented myself when I was talking about him getting captured. I don't think it was a plan all along. Far from it, I think that he was making the best of the situation. The Shadowthieves had attacked and all but destroyed his base. Charname had, for the moment, escaped his grasp, and he was looking at having to potentially fight not only the Coweled wizards, but also a Bhaalspawn of unknown strength. While, I think "He thought" that he could ultimately overcome those odds, why not instead try something else.
And he didn't "let the Bhaalspawn that he needed, go." He had several schemes by which he could observe, manipulate and even control Charname. He potentially had an agent in Charname's party. He had Imoen in his grasp and presumably (strongly hinted at during various points in the plot) a magical connection via her to Charname. Certainly he also had created reasons for Charname to seek him out. And Bodhi was also in the area keeping an eye on Charname. I think he even alludes to all of this in his speech in Spellhold, that he intended to let Charname free reign and draw him in.
I see it as this. Base gone, he grabbed Imoen and went willingly (if not strictly accordingly to plan) with the Coweled wizards so that he would have time to plan.
but enough said on the topic. This is all my humble speculation on the topic.
Him being clumsy and screwing up occasionally does not mean I dislike him. I like Voldemort, but he was arguably the dumbest villain.
lol, off topic: Remember Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire?
Voldemort's plan:
a. make sure that Harry qualifies for a tournament he does not meet the legal requirements for
b. make sure Harry survives the incredibly dangerous tournament (because you know.. Harry being alive is super important for me)
c. make sure Harry reaches the cup, which we turned into a Portkey, alone in the end of the final round so that he can teleport in front of me so i can kill him
d. i will ensure these highly unlikely events take place through my secret agent posing as Madeye Moony
My plan if I was an evil wizard:
a. instead of making the prize cup that is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to get the portkey, I make it a pencil or some other easily accessible, seemingly innocuous item
b. i have my secret agent Moody have Harry come to his office. "Hey Harry, can you pass me that pencil?"
c. "sure, professor... OH SHIT ITS VOLDEM- "Avada kadavera"
d. I win
And well made point.
However (and you knew that was coming so laugh with me rather than at me?), if it were Too easy to get, people might question it.
To Irenicus, all you are is a spell component. There is nothing personal there.
So basically those 2 villains (bg) are the only ones you really get to know whatsoever. All the other D&D villains were just not very good. There are many villains in other games but they are outside D and D.
I wouldn't say they're not very good, (in fact they're all quite evil xD), it's just that this, like all polls, is a choice of one - nobody's going to vote for their second or third favorite antagonist. The cream rises to the top, but that doesn't make the rest flotsam.
Baldurs gate had 2 of the best antagonists for game 1 and 2. Game 1, you have a warrior that has pushed himself to the utmost. Sarevok will always be my favorite antagonist. Irenicus is more calculating and has more of a game of cat and mouse. He is just as good as sarevok and better in some ways.
Im just saying that the other bad guys in the other d and d games don't come close to Bg. So that's why I only really play baldurs gate. In my opinion the other d and d games just don't offer 1 or even 2 things that my favorite game set doesn't do better.
The only other d and d game both turnbased and real time I can stomache is planescape.
I know she's not on the list, but my evil Charname had a real bone to pick with Bhodi after she betrayed him.
"What... Do you mean... You're Irenicus's SISTER!?"
Once that Slayer bug's fixed, there's gonna be some hell to pay.
And most importantly, him joining our party at the end! Even having an alignment change! Even showing brotherly love (does not betray us, even without a geas!)!
1. David Warner. This requires no explanation.
2. The Dream Sequences. Whether it's metaphorical or not (I agree with Nonnahswriter), the dream sequences in BG2 are amazing. They feature Irenicus, and even if it's not really Irenicus, they do SO MUCH to expose him to you and hammer home his villainy. If the BG1 dreams had done this with Sarevok, it might have been a closer competition, but the BG1 dreams have nothing on the BG2 dreams, and that's probably the biggest reason why Sarevok has nothing on Irenicus.
3. Exposure to the Villain. The best villains have great interactions between the hero and the villain that lead to the climactic confrontation. These are often very difficult to get right (and if you'd like to see it done as badly as humanly possible, play through Diablo 3). In BG1, the intro scene is awesome, and your first encounter with Sarevok is excellent; it's a classic "Run for your life" cutscene where somebody sacrifices their life so that the hero can get away. But after that first cutscene, I don't think BG1 does his character a lot of favors. They chose to go with an "unravel the mystery" angle, which is great, but doesn't lend itself to a deep dive into the villain's character. BG2 does the villain exposure very well. I'm sometimes iffy about why I get to see some of the cutscenes with him and Imoen in Spellhold (and the cutscenes in the Underdark/Elven City), but the stuff between Irenicus and Charname are all handled incredibly well, I feel.
Both are the most suprising moments I´ve ever had with the last boss in infinity engine/neverwinter games. Makes me want to play again, unlike Sarevok - the final confrontation is just awful, he is so overpowering in melee terms, likewise Irenicus is nearly impossible in challenge rating as a mage, and Amelyssan has the best of both worlds. Unlike Isair and Madae, whom where almost effortless the last time around... the bosses in Neverwinter 1 + expansions were easier (less load games) than dragons in those games.
Edit: a little coolness factor for Heurodis for a battle atop a flying city - would have been so satisfying if the player could have gained control of it like the strongholds from SoA... and for Sarrukh (or was it Mearagh?!) for being a dinosaur. Mephistopheles was awe-inspiring for a tactical flight - fire & ice + summons showdown.
I don't think I ever finished the other games, though I do own them all.