should they or should they not commission a game that every single DandD player worldwide would at least strongly consider buying based on the artwork on the outside of the box alone. Baldurs Gate 3, Baldurs Gate freaking 3. I'd buy a box that smelled like it had a moldy peach inside of it if it said "baldurs gate 3" on the outside. Id spend 50 bucks on it.
Shows how the majority of people feel about Baldur's Gate 3. The game has a following, momentum.
Let me explain using an example. Elite has momentum... A game developed on the BBC Micro in 1981 that is now being remade again (through kickstarter, may I add) that has me interested. It nearly ran afoul of business and copyright problems (Ian Bell and David Braben who produced the original fell out) But why should I care? I was a mere three year old when it was first released... The reason I do care and the reason so many others do is because the game has developed a following...
Baldur's Gate is slightly different. 10 years is a shorter span of time than the 30 years Elite is dealing with. Many of it's followers originally are still gamers... It will be a gaming event, more so due to the pause. Momentum is already building here... And it is inescapable... And relentless...
IWD:EE?
Planescape:EE?
Please do!
But that will only add to the mounting pressure to create BG:Next
And then the volcano will explode, the landslide will wipe us all out and the few survivors will drown in the lava...
...
But if you want to stop it... Please get your rings of fire resistance ready...
But if you want to stop it... Please get your rings of fire resistance ready...
You can cast spells to resist the fire as a mummy or do you want me to do so over you? I can also offer you a Ring of Fire Control for 500 GP or I can give it for free if you answer my riddles. I'm a Quasit so I have 100% Fire Resistance innately... Well, I'll start with the riddles! 1) When I die, I spawn a score of mortal progeny, who am I? 2) As you have said before, I had an LE teacher so I know how to multiply by 17, answer: 234 x 17 = 3) I am green but sometimes I turn brown and then I fall to grow green again. 4) I have wings, but one edition before I didn't, who am I? 5) I will always bother you 36 times before giving you 400 XP, who am I?
Well I'll defend 4th edition. The Spellplague happened. Get over it. If it upsets you so much that you are going to "forget" the forgotten realms, I highly doubt the forgotten realms will have any problem forgetting you. And if you think you are in the majority here, and by you and your like-minded friends leaving the Forgotten Realms, WoTC will suffer terribly and crumble into dust, go look at book sales for The Sundering: Book 1.
If you're going to champion the sales figures, get them right. 4E fell to #2 behind.…you guessed it, Pathfinder.
Yup, it's been quite evident for some time that the 4th edition changes had quite the detrimental impact on the popularity of D&D and in particular their flagship setting-Forgotten Realms.
The whole 'Sundering' thing that's been brought up is WoTC attempt at an olive branch towards the fans of Forgotten Realms they lost in 4th edition. This is why we are getting adventures like 'Murder in Baldur's Gate' meant to appeal to the sense of nostalgia many have of the older material. This is also why said adventure was released in multiple editions. This is also why WoTC has been reprinting older material. WoTC is desperately trying to regain the lost faith of the community with such actions. The time of 'good riddance, you won't be missed' has passed, and it's a bit uninformed IMO to presume that this attitude is still relevant given the current situation has come about because of the fans "forgetting" the Forgotten Realms (and 4th edition in general) and moving onto Pathfinder or earlier editions.
Now whether or not WoTC's actions are too little too late or not, I expect we'll see given time-but it's certainly not a panacea-what would obviously mollify the biggest section of the disillusioned fanbase would be to rollback the timeline to before the Spellplague happened, but WoTC is not doing that. And WoTC has been rather mum about the extent to which and what messes that occurred in 4th edition will be retconned.
They can always have Ao or Ao's master, who was never named as far as I know, reset time and fix the world. It's a Deus ex Machina solution but they placed themselves in a situation where I don't see any other possible way out of the mess.
Well, they've been working on a 5th edition since 2007, and a lot of people think they'll release it this year. And the only reason they released 4th edition was because too many whiners complained about 3rd edition.
Well, they've been working on a 5th edition since 2007, and a lot of people think they'll release it this year. And the only reason they released 4th edition was because too many whiners complained about 3rd edition.
I think the best edition is the 2nd edition. 3rd edition is everyone having the same level gain, that's so fail; everyone goes at their own pace.
They can always have Ao or Ao's master, who was never named as far as I know, reset time and fix the world. It's a Deus ex Machina solution but they placed themselves in a situation where I don't see any other possible way out of the mess.
That would work They could also do a Doctor Whoish solution since Mystra is also the god of time. Her death caused a fracture in time and when some adventurers repair it they also repair the 4th ed fail. Or because they were working on shadow-light theme: because a god of light was killed by shadow magic the world split into two -- the shadow world of 4th ed and a world of light where the spellplague never happened.
But they won't -- the new plot has something to do with the tablets of fate coming back together and the sundering of Abeir and Toril. Good news is that the plot was designed by R.A. Salvatore so it has a chance of not sucking. The bad news is that WOTSC seems to echoing the same 'keep it simple for new players' silliness that led them to simplify the alignment system and eliminate negative AC; so the rules could still suck. Hey WOTC, if you are listening -- D&D is a game for geeks and geeks like complexity . . .
Just wondering, what if Baldur´s Gate 3 : Enhanced Edition´s campaing would happen in Calimport, or some other southern land, due to the fact that each sequel has been moving geographically southwards?
Re: comments about 4th edition: I remember back when 4th edition was released, FR fans on the WotC forums were mostly aghast at the gutting of the setting by the Spellplague. Some cynically speculated that WotC had done it to make the Eberron setting seem more attractive by comparison, as it wasn't getting much traction (or so I read at the time).
I want Baldurs Gate 3 to continue the story of our protagonist and I want the final archvilain to be the Nameless one from Torment waiting in a conquered city of the Nine Hells.Levels 25-30.Lot of dialogs.Endless Daemonic and Devilish armies formerly fighting the Blood War now uniting to stop our character from upseting the balance of the universe.Fighting the Lich-queen of the Gityanki.Loth could also play some part as we visit the Daemonweb Pits to steal a strong web to capture Cyric.
Very unlikely in my mind. If they do decide to keep the BG in the title they'd probably move back up. To the Sword Coast if not the Gate itself.
How about a big city adventure, with a few missions in outdoor locations, like in BG2? Or something completely different from both BG:EE1 & 2 ( I am focusing on the beginning of the game, and what would be that like? Starting post-ToB level 30+?! )?
Checking out the map here: http://www.dwarfmine.com/blog/images/4efrmap2fr6.jpg I noticed that Waterdeep resides neatly in-between Baldur´s Gate and Neverwinter, has it been represented in any other crpg than Eye of the Beholder 1? I vaguely recall it being the starting place in Neverwinter Nights 1 : Hordes of the Underdark, but I am not certain.... Having played Eye of the Beholder 2 : The Temple of Darkmoon on Amiga like two decades ago made me exited for a moment, until I realized that fighting 1 beholder in sewers (the plot for Eye of the Beholder 1) probably would´t be as epic as expectations for BG:3.
I would love to return to Waterdeep, if not necessarily the sewers.
Does anyone remember the mission from Khelben Blackstaff in EotB 2? Regarding sewers, currently there are 3 of them, 1 in Baldur´s Gate city, 1 in Shadows of Amn, in the Temple District of Athkatla, and finally, 1 in Throne of Bhaal, the sewers of Saradush. Challenge-wise, all the encounters in sewers can be troublesome, even the kobolds and hobgoblins if shamans cast something nasty.
Perhaps BG3 could be just an Infinity Engine version of Neverwinter Nights 1? This just would be nice, thinking of the old message from the saving/loading screens of BG2, where it was announced ever so often that the adventure doesn´t have to end, but to continue in Neverwinter Nights with importing a character that has completed SoA.
Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see a new Forgotten Realms set D'n'D game that truly carries on the legacy of Baldur's Gate, but to my mind the Bhaalspawn saga is done, finished. Setting the game somewhere like Waterdeep sounds cool, but I think it would need a brand new storyline, completely separate from the events of BG1 through TOB.
If they were to go with a direct connection to the BG series, the only way I can think to go is to set the game long, long after TOB, with the essence of Bhaal (it could be left ambiguous whether it was released during a deliberate ascent to godhood or following the death of a mortal Gorion's Ward) is at war with Cyric over the portfolio of Murder. As we pick up the storyline, the fallout from the Bhaal/Cyric conflict is causing havoc in the Realms - effectively threatening to instigate a new Time of Troubles. When the dark gods' forces clash, decimating the city of Waterdeep, a talented individual (our new CHARNAME) barely escapes alive and sets out to put an end to the war... for better or worse.
Hey look at that, maybe it could work
I have to disagree. While a direct sequel is out of the question, I think a continuation of the BG universe much akin to Dragon Age II, would be perfectly feasible. In another part of the realms a completely new CHARNAME with completely new NPCS and a completely new story go on about their business with frequent references to things that happened during BG I and II and how they have shaped the world you're now adventuring in. I don't feel as though it is necessary to do the "long long after TOB" approach. The story could actually be happening simultaneously with the events of BG I & II as long as they aren't overlapping locations.
Forgive my ignorance, but could they not do a story-import system like what Mass Effect did? I don't know how these engines work so maybe that would be a HUGE pain, but it would kinda clear up any problems about establishing a "canon" CHARNAME. As for lifespan problems, at the end of ToB, CHARNAME is powerful enough to slap entire armies aside, and that's even without becoming a God. Even Elminster doesn't wanna try you. I think it's fair to say that CHARNAME can live however long they damn well please at that point. Though considering that even if you choose not to be a God you kinda become one anyway just by virtue of being so damn powerful, that would make a sequel involving the CHARNAME a massive stompfest. The only thing a sequel with CHARNAME would need is Neera though.
It was disheartening to me when it happened to the KOTOR series in TOR, I wouldn't want a repeat of that happening to my Bhaalspawn.
Can't agree with that enough
Unless BGII was designed with that in mind, which I highly doubt it was considering where the story was going, then where are you going to get the data in question? To try to magically fish all the variables out of a save file that wasn't designed with being imported by another game in mind... well "nightmare" is so much of an understatement that I really don't know how to describe it.
Well, they've been working on a 5th edition since 2007, and a lot of people think they'll release it this year. And the only reason they released 4th edition was because too many whiners complained about 3rd edition.
3.5 was because of people whining about 3rd edition. 4th was just about coming up with an excuse to make more money. You'll notice, people prefer 3.5 to 4th by the fact that Pathfinder is more popular than D&D now.
With all the legal trouble every time, I wonder why they don't think up their own rules for their own game, set in their own universe. RPGs like BG don't need any kind of (A)D&D Rules. I want to see what Beamdog can do on their own.
Well, they've been working on a 5th edition since 2007, and a lot of people think they'll release it this year. And the only reason they released 4th edition was because too many whiners complained about 3rd edition.
3.5 was because of people whining about 3rd edition. 4th was just about coming up with an excuse to make more money. You'll notice, people prefer 3.5 to 4th by the fact that Pathfinder is more popular than D&D now.
Pathfinder is my favorite because it is complex enough for veterans while still being newbie-friendly. I was horrified when I had to DM for three buddies who never played anything before (and my first time DMing) yet pathfinder made it so easy. The fact that their website shares most of the basics behind the game makes things so accessible.
They really streamlined the basics and made more complicated stuff completely optional. I think that was a great approach (I am pretty new myself to D&D, so I don't really know much about 1st Edition, but I hated what I've seen about 3rd and especially 4e)
Thinking about what these IP holders and publishers are more trouble than anything else the way Obsidian went with PE might the best way to go. Now a days gaming devs are below these office lions and have to bow down... which should be the other way around. And D&D is not what is was and everything these idiots try to improve only gets worse. Dont fix whats not broken...
Thinking about what these IP holders and publishers are more trouble than anything else the way Obsidian went with PE might the best way to go. Now a days gaming devs are below these office lions and have to bow down... which should be the other way around. And D&D is not what is was and everything these idiots try to improve only gets worse. Dont fix whats not broken...
Design by committee has done a number on quite a few formerly reliable sources of entertainment.
Heck, in 2nd edition they killed off all the assassins in the world.....because they wanted to remove 'assassin' as a class (same reason as demons & Devils, they didn't want to take the heat they were getting for 'corrupting' the youth)
Now IMO they certainly ramped up that way of decision making come late 3.5/4.0...
Personally, I think we need to consider that D&D games would have to go through several levels of bureaucracy-one for WoTC, The video game publishers, and the game devs themselves. What we have to look forward to is much more likely to be the next 'Neverwinter' rather than the next Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment.
We need to be careful what we wish for. There was a time I would have killed for a new Neverwinter Nights title...
Comments
But as @ojthesimpson states... Shows how the majority of people feel about Baldur's Gate 3. The game has a following, momentum.
Let me explain using an example. Elite has momentum... A game developed on the BBC Micro in 1981 that is now being remade again (through kickstarter, may I add) that has me interested. It nearly ran afoul of business and copyright problems (Ian Bell and David Braben who produced the original fell out) But why should I care? I was a mere three year old when it was first released... The reason I do care and the reason so many others do is because the game has developed a following...
Baldur's Gate is slightly different. 10 years is a shorter span of time than the 30 years Elite is dealing with. Many of it's followers originally are still gamers... It will be a gaming event, more so due to the pause. Momentum is already building here... And it is inescapable... And relentless...
IWD:EE?
Planescape:EE?
Please do!
But that will only add to the mounting pressure to create BG:Next
And then the volcano will explode, the landslide will wipe us all out and the few survivors will drown in the lava...
...
But if you want to stop it... Please get your rings of fire resistance ready...
I'm a Quasit so I have 100% Fire Resistance innately...
Well, I'll start with the riddles!
1) When I die, I spawn a score of mortal progeny, who am I?
2) As you have said before, I had an LE teacher so I know how to multiply by 17, answer: 234 x 17 =
3) I am green but sometimes I turn brown and then I fall to grow green again.
4) I have wings, but one edition before I didn't, who am I?
5) I will always bother you 36 times before giving you 400 XP, who am I?
The whole 'Sundering' thing that's been brought up is WoTC attempt at an olive branch towards the fans of Forgotten Realms they lost in 4th edition. This is why we are getting adventures like 'Murder in Baldur's Gate' meant to appeal to the sense of nostalgia many have of the older material. This is also why said adventure was released in multiple editions. This is also why WoTC has been reprinting older material. WoTC is desperately trying to regain the lost faith of the community with such actions. The time of 'good riddance, you won't be missed' has passed, and it's a bit uninformed IMO to presume that this attitude is still relevant given the current situation has come about because of the fans "forgetting" the Forgotten Realms (and 4th edition in general) and moving onto Pathfinder or earlier editions.
Now whether or not WoTC's actions are too little too late or not, I expect we'll see given time-but it's certainly not a panacea-what would obviously mollify the biggest section of the disillusioned fanbase would be to rollback the timeline to before the Spellplague happened, but WoTC is not doing that. And WoTC has been rather mum about the extent to which and what messes that occurred in 4th edition will be retconned.
But they won't -- the new plot has something to do with the tablets of fate coming back together and the sundering of Abeir and Toril. Good news is that the plot was designed by R.A. Salvatore so it has a chance of not sucking. The bad news is that WOTSC seems to echoing the same 'keep it simple for new players' silliness that led them to simplify the alignment system and eliminate negative AC; so the rules could still suck. Hey WOTC, if you are listening -- D&D is a game for geeks and geeks like complexity . . .
How about a big city adventure, with a few missions in outdoor locations, like in BG2? Or something completely different from both BG:EE1 & 2 ( I am focusing on the beginning of the game, and what would be that like? Starting post-ToB level 30+?! )?
Checking out the map here: http://www.dwarfmine.com/blog/images/4efrmap2fr6.jpg I noticed that Waterdeep resides neatly in-between Baldur´s Gate and Neverwinter, has it been represented in any other crpg than Eye of the Beholder 1? I vaguely recall it being the starting place in Neverwinter Nights 1 : Hordes of the Underdark, but I am not certain.... Having played Eye of the Beholder 2 : The Temple of Darkmoon on Amiga like two decades ago made me exited for a moment, until I realized that fighting 1 beholder in sewers (the plot for Eye of the Beholder 1) probably would´t be as epic as expectations for BG:3.
Perhaps BG3 could be just an Infinity Engine version of Neverwinter Nights 1? This just would be nice, thinking of the old message from the saving/loading screens of BG2, where it was announced ever so often that the adventure doesn´t have to end, but to continue in Neverwinter Nights with importing a character that has completed SoA.
They really streamlined the basics and made more complicated stuff completely optional. I think that was a great approach (I am pretty new myself to D&D, so I don't really know much about 1st Edition, but I hated what I've seen about 3rd and especially 4e)
Heck, in 2nd edition they killed off all the assassins in the world.....because they wanted to remove 'assassin' as a class (same reason as demons & Devils, they didn't want to take the heat they were getting for 'corrupting' the youth)
Now IMO they certainly ramped up that way of decision making come late 3.5/4.0...
Personally, I think we need to consider that D&D games would have to go through several levels of bureaucracy-one for WoTC, The video game publishers, and the game devs themselves. What we have to look forward to is much more likely to be the next 'Neverwinter' rather than the next Baldur's Gate or Planescape Torment.
We need to be careful what we wish for. There was a time I would have killed for a new Neverwinter Nights title...