Spell Immunity: Abjuration
I'm wondering, when you have cast Spell Immunity: Abjuration.
Is there any way to remove it?
It seems all removal and dispel magics are also Abjuration.
There are spells that say they will remove the spells, but if you are immune can it actually be removed?
Just curious as to what trumph what here?
And sorry if this has been posted before, I didn't find any such post though.
Is there any way to remove it?
It seems all removal and dispel magics are also Abjuration.
There are spells that say they will remove the spells, but if you are immune can it actually be removed?
Just curious as to what trumph what here?
And sorry if this has been posted before, I didn't find any such post though.
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There is also a line of spell removals which are alteration rather than abjuration which can remove it. I think its called spell thrust or something similar.
While it may seem counter-intuitive given the name of the spell, people should really test things for themselves.
Some things just bugs ones mind when at work
All spells set to secondary type 4 (Magic Attack) bypass such defenses (deflection, reflection, or trapping of spells, unfiltered or filtered by school) specifically for this reason.
I don't know if Breach and Dispel/Remove Magic are classified as Magic Attacks without SCS. If they are, they'll go through SI: Abjuration. If they aren't, SI: Abjuration will block them. Otherwise, SI: Abjuration will only block other Abjuration spells--which basically just means defensive spells like Protection from Fire and Resist Fear and so forth.
All Magic Attack spells besides Ruby Ray are Abjuration spells, but not all Abjuration spells are Magic Attack spells.
You are looking at it from a “I have SI Abjuration, therefore all Abjuration spells should not affect me” perspective.
The caster of (for example) Spell Thrust is looking at it from the perspective “I am casting a spell that removes all spell defences of level 5 or below. SI Abjuration is a spell defence of level 5. Therefore it should be removed”.
Both perspectives are seemingly right but only one can be true. And the true in-game perspective is the latter, i.e. spell removal spells trump SI Abjuration. And when you think about it, from a game balance perspective this is absolutely the right thing. Spell removals are incredibly niche spells. If they were rendered useless by a single level 5 spell, they would be beyond weak. Whereas Spell Immunity is still an incredibly strong spell even with this behaviour. You can choose your spell school to defend against when you cast it and SI Abjuration is still vitally important to defend against Dispel/Remove Magic and Imprisonment.
Yeah I have a IA/SCS hybrid game and that sucks because you can not touch mages with si:abjuration until you can cast multiple ruby rays. I house-ruled it, changed spell thrust to evocation and secret word to enchantment school. I also house-ruled that minor globe of inv. blocks spell thrust but not secret word, however globe of inv. blocks secret word too, so you need pierce magic (level 6 equivelant) to dispel globe. If si:abjuration is also in place only ruby rays are the way to go.
IIRC spell revisions mod also change secret word to enchantment which I don't have installed.
In unmodded game everything is simple, si:abjuration only protects against dispel/remove magic. And imprisonment, which is important too.
Breach and other spell removals work. And how the spell thrust/secret word affected globes of invulnerability was a bit wonky for different versions of the game.
Semantics aside, the important point for me is that the spells are working as they should be.
going by the description, no spell abjuration spell should work
the rule of "what trumps what" poses an exception to the rule of how the spell works
since this exception isn't noted in the description, it can be said that the description isn't fully adequate
It's the same thing as Spell Shield and Spellstrike. Spell Shield says it'll block Spellstrike and protect other defenses; Spellstrike says it will take down Spell Shield as well as everything else. In both cases, the description leaves room for interpretation.
Since the description doesn't specify, I think the current system makes sense from a balance perspective. If SI: Abjuration blocked all magic attacks, it would be an unbreakable Spell Shield that made wizard defenses even stronger than they already are.
Ruby Ray would still work and there are some mods that force you to use it against SI:Abj. Arguably Spellstrike should also work depending on what you would consider the correct implementation of dual-school spells to be in relation to Spell Immunity.
Spell Immunity: Abjuration protects the caster from the spells Remove magic and Dispel magic. It doesn't protect from any other abjuration spells.
Protection from Evil (+10' version), Remove Fear, Spirit Ward, Glyph of Warding, Protection from Fire, Remove Curse, Remove Paralysis, Cure Disease, Spiritual Clarity, Free Action, Protection from Lightning, Negative Plane Protection, Protection from Normal Weapons, Protection from Petrification, Resist Fear, Non-Detection, Protection from Cold, Protection from Acid, Protection from Magic Energy, Protection from the Elements, Protection from Energy, Imprisonment, and Freedom (provided it is still active when freedom is cast).
@Jaheiras_Witness
It does not protect against Breach or Lower Resistance.