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Who is the most underrated NPC? (This time with options!)

KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
edited February 2014 in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
To chime in with @booinyoureyes - which NPC does get the most undeserved hate? Which "black sheep" do you find well written, mechanically useful or even both?
  1. Who is the most underrated NPC? (This time with options!)138 votes
    1. Garrick
        9.42%
    2. Skie
        5.07%
    3. Eldoth
        3.62%
    4. Faldorn
        5.80%
    5. Nalia
      16.67%
    6. Valygar
      21.74%
    7. Cernd
        8.70%
    8. Branwen
      10.87%
    9. Xzar
        5.80%
    10. someone else
      12.32%
«13

Comments

  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    Mm, Xzar is one my favorites so I had to pick him, I never underrated him, nor other NPCs.
    Cernd is very funny for me, I never took him more than for his personal quest, in which I couldn't stop laughing and thinking "this druid is a complete asshole" and "he could be useful, but I don't know how to make him useful" so I ended up dropping him.
    Eldoth is a party memeber I sometimes have around for a week, mostly for a stack of 80 Poisoning Arrows, but certainly he is underrated, he isn't as bad written as other BG1 NPCs and he is maybe funny and much more versatile and useful than Garrick as a bard.
    Montaron is like KidCarnival and booinyoureyes said the stereotype breaker, I neer had him around for too long because he got killed by Tarnesh in a no-reload run :/ and I was a thief PC anyway. I personally don't like his soundset, he is like someone that tries to be more evil than what he is.
    Skie, I never, never never used her. I've seen her voiceset while fixing a save of other person and laughed a little, looks like made to counterpart with Montaron, she's totally stereotype, most of te times I play thieves, solo runs (or both) or just don't want to take her. I'm going tp consider her in my next BG:EE evil run with BG1 NPC Project and SCS.
    Brawnen is a NPC I never used, I certainly don't see why you need a cleric in BG1, I think that with Yeslik you have enougj Divine spellcasting for BG1, unless you are playing evil and, well, you can take Viconia with you :) Brawnwn is a NPC I have underrated, I know she's cool, that she isn't a bad NPC nor anything, I just never had te opportunity to use her nor to consoder doing so.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I included Xzar because he's usually compared to Edwin (evil pure mages) and, as said somewhere above, it's often recommended to get him killed to make room for Edwin or Baeloth. Branwen's popularity surprised me more than anything, and she's included because she's usually listed as "keep her until you can get Yeslick" and pointed out to be inferior (stats-wise) to the other pure cleric, Viconia. It's mostly the comparison to mechanically superior NPCs of the same class and/or alignment. I was considering to add Ajantis, since he's often overlooked by good aligned parties in favor of Khalid and Minsc, and for not being in the "canon party", but he also has no competition in his class, making him by default both the best and worst paladin in BG1.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    I really, really liked Kid's last post. The Skie and Eldoth descriptions were so spot on (especially about Skie's looks). I totally agree with having bard armor available. I think the perfect place to put it would be on Silke's carcass! Not anything powerful, but just something like the equivalent of bardic studded leather or just leather. Like an AC 7 or 6 item, that just allows you to cast spells. (totally wish the jester's chain was this sort of bard-only cool piece of equipment in BG2)
    Also nailed Montaron. I probably would have voted for him if he was an option, though Garrick and Eldoth would be hard to beat.
    To be honest, I find Valygar boring. He definitely feels... unfinished? He should have been a romance option, and a couple mods add it in, which may be interesting. I think the reason that he gets flak that the similar Kivan does not is that he is a BG2 character, so his minimalist personality is highlighted more in comparison with all the other characters. Kivan doesn't get that, since BG1 characters pretty much have their biography, soundset and maybe a quest or two to show themselves.
    I agree with Quartz that Xzar and Branwen are kinda well liked. Nalia is a really interesting option for this poll, and your reasoning for her lukewarm reception is spot on. She'd have been interesting as a sorcerer or a bard. The sorceress part would really fit her development in BG2 because of the whole "coming to terms with newfound awesome power" thing.
    Another interesting choice might have been Quayle, actually. He gets SO much hate that I really don't get. I don't love him, but find him amusing and pretty useful with all his spell slots.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    ...how does Eldoth not have votes o.0?
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Faldorn hands down! She is the only believeable druid in the whole saga (the others being a cranky, outdoor loving NG Harper multi-class and a furry android without the sliver of a personality to his name). Despite that, her "quest" in BG1 can't even be called as such. Not to mention the game doesn't utilizes her origin of the Black Raven Uthgardt tribe at all, which is quite frankly a shame. Giving that she's the only character who can cast 5th-level priest spells in BG1 alone ought to get her some much needed dialogue lines. And while she gets some spotlight in BG2, it's too damn short to make this woman show her true mettle.

    And I can't be the only one who *still* waits for a Faldorn Romance mod for both games, right..? Right?!
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    it was a toss up between Garrick and Branwen.

    I went with Branwen because I find she is a better cleric than Vic who gets all the love. She's neutral so she can fit into more parties plus I do like her spiritual hammer summoning especially early game WHEN EVERY DAMN WEAPON BREAKS ON ME. *ahem*

    Garrick is a close second. I love his personality and his "yes sirrr" response. He can be a good secondary mage and mid wisdom and int scores give him some nice lore later, allowing you to use magical items right away, while not wasting a spell slot on identify.
  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    Xan

    And Garrick in second place.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    On the favorite mage poll, Xan got no votes. no. votes.
    criminal!
    I think it is the enchanter kit. I make him a sorcerer myself so I don't experience the pains of not being able to do damage. Enchantment is especially useless in BG2 (I heard somewhere the last enchantment spell is level five anyway, and you lose evocation)
  • CoutelierCoutelier Member Posts: 1,282
    Most undeserved hate is definitely Aerie, since most the 'criticisms' of her simply aren't true. Like when you first meet her, she only mentions her wings if you ask her, twice, and only talks about it after that in her romance. Yet she does have actual flaws in her character, like all the pent up anger that slips out sometimes, and grows tremendously over the course of the games.

    Otherwise, I'd say many of the BG1 NPC's have potential to be a lot more than they were with real character growth and development. Skie realizing how foolish she was to fall for Eldoth and starting to pursue her own goals and interests would have been good.
  • RewolfRewolf Member Posts: 102
    I would go for Dynaheir. I know some people find her as useful/good as I do but on most guides (like Play it Hardcore) she is usually burned for the fact she is from the evocation school and thus can't cast Enchantment/Charm spells, which are deemed as the most useful. Which is a shame imo, since I like big damage spells more!
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Quayle and Tiax were both considered, but I think they have equally strong supporter and hater fronts, the latter mostly being based on them coming in so late. Quayle is recognized as a powerhouse due to his multiclass, he doesn't stand out as underrated to me. Same for Aerie; she's critized - if at all - for her personality, but I haven't seen anyone say she's a (mechanically) bad NPC.
    The poll isn't so much about liked and disliked as it is about underrated NPCs who are in the shadow of another NPC who fills the same role. I'd say that Garrick isn't disliked for his personality either, just passed over because of his medicore stats.

    But alas, I made a write in option for the others. :)
  • CantabCantab Member Posts: 56
    edited February 2014
    Nalia, by far for me, thief/mage is a very handy combo and you can always do a straight swap out for Imoen.

    Branwen IMO is a reasonable cleric. Valygar is okay, being good on the bow always adds some value, but the rest are passengers.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    booinyoureyes said:

    ...how does Eldoth not have votes o.0?

    No-one dares to underrate me, Eldoth Charname. :)
  • Demonoid_LimewireDemonoid_Limewire Member Posts: 424
    Valygar of course! The man is a lot more worthy than they make him to be!
  • elementelement Member Posts: 833
    edited February 2014
    While Theres a few underrated characters in the series Id say Faldorn has it worst she's really a pretty good druid and yet I barely ever see her even getting mentioned. Other underrated characters like Dynheir and Branwen at least have noticeable support groups


    skie is also underrated but she is just a weird character altogether seeing as not only is she a late game character she is one of two late game thieves so it just seems very unlikely anyone is ever going to use her unless the specifically plan to ahead of time
    Post edited by element on
  • TwoWayFinesseTwoWayFinesse Member Posts: 128
    non evil 'pure' mage (forget the thieving you need someone else) who isn't as good as imoen so no one wants her.... except you can get her early, and she usually has much more xp by the time you pick imoen up, so will always be a level or two ahead.

    (ignoring some NPC's in BG1 because as the ones in Baldurs Gate are found when you already have your party, effectively meaning you have to plan your play through to make it worth using them)
    Also, try as I might, I just can't rate Cernd or Faldorn at all.
  • LesseLesse Member Posts: 81
    Nalia. I guess Edwin and Neera are covered now for "pure" mages of evil and neutral alignments respectively, and with only 4 thief levels Nalia I agree is the pure class for do-gooders.

    Her or Feldorn. Now, I used Feldorn in my BG! EE playthrough (Ajantis, Minsc, Branwen, Feldorn and Imoen with my sorceress) and she could use insect plague, which was amazing. She's fun, feral, and Ajantis constantly told her to behave herself. She's amazing.
  • ArizaelArizael Member Posts: 263
    edited February 2014
    I would definitly go for Valygar. Powerful backstab with Fighter Thac0 and combat staying power- results are effectivly offensive character. People usualy overlook him over Minsc, but those two work suprisingly well together.

    Second would go Cernd. Especialy with SCS he's pretty good.

    Third goes for Faldron, but I've never actualy liked her.

    I believe that Xzar and Branwen should not be in the list, as people use them actualy a lot.

    Post edited by Arizael on
  • JLeeJLee Member Posts: 650
    I never thought of Valygar as underrated. He IS a badass with CF and backstab. He is well voiced and has a good backstory. I just wish he had some of the character development that Anomen or Aerie had.

    I have found @kidcarnival 's comments about Xzar enlightening. I am guilty of the very habit of finding Montaron the more useful of the duo and will pay more attention (and creativity) next time.

    I have grown fond of Garrick despite never using him until recently. As others have stated, he makes an excellent secondary caster and keeper of the wands. He identifies, pickpockets, and is passable as a crossbowman with the Army Scythe.

    I tried Cernd for a while and it didn't work out. Like Faldorn though I may not have given him a proper tryout. Although I may also have a bit of class bias to work out there too.

    I appreciate Branwen and Nalia a great deal. I find them to be among the most effective in their class/alignment in the games, especially how early you can find them.

    Eldoth was another candidate for me. I have never used him and definitely should in the future.
  • toanwrathtoanwrath Member Posts: 621
    For me it was a toss up between Garrick and Valygar. I rarely see people using them for their parties, and I have used them both recently and here is why.
    Garrick: I don't play bards myself, though I plan on it soon, and in BG1 Horror is as common broken weapons. Therefore, a quick way to ensure morale/fear resistance is a bard song. Plus, Garrick can use nearly any weapon (alignment restrictions aside, you can make him proficient with anything), so if you really like that Albruin +2 but have no long sword fighters, teach Garrick how to give it a swing or two. He can learn any spell that you can find in the game, unlike Dynaheir, Edwin or Xan so he is a versatile backup for whatever your main mage is (or if you specialize as a CHARNAME mage). He starts with a crossbow and a nice little quest, has humorous voice acting, is so cheerful about adventuring with you, and won't complain if you enjoy the company of Drow, Blackguards, Ajantis or other annoying NPCs.
    Valygar: Obvious cons are that he can't wear super heavy armor, his strength is only 17 and he is a boring human, and he's kind of mopey. Pros: Who needs heavy armor when there are plenty of other AC items/spells, and decent Light armor, backstab is truly a ridiculous power (I never used it until I played a stalker in BG1 and now I use backstab every chance I get), he is good with Katanas (his own is great and celestial fury is awesome), Spears (spears are fun) and Daggers (plenty of cute little effect daggers for when he backstabs). All in all, as the versatile Casty/Sneaky ranger kit, Valygar fits really well into most lineups as a damage dealer with style. Also, strength 17 means hardly anything in BG2 due to all of the strength spells and the abundant strength items. His mopey-ness isn't unwarranted, and you can have some cool interactions with him.

    TL;DR
    Bards are versatile, Stalkers are fairly versatile for a Ranger, both are cool characters. I chose Valygar over Garrick because I play BG2 more than BG1, and he has more depth.
  • IselethIseleth Member Posts: 15
    edited February 2014
    I actually use Eldoth quite often in evil-themed playthroughs. Obviously his stats are nothing special, but the main draw is his personality. He personifies the evil bard: smart, manipulative and utterly ruthless.

    I could have picked Xzar, who is one of my favorite NPCs, but I don't think he is very underrated.
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