@KidCarnival: Hmm, amusingly enough, this makes me think it'd be fun to do a theory crafting thread about "most overpowered BG1 party." That could be amusing. In BGII, you get to high levels and characters stop overshadowing each other so much, but early-mid levels in BG1 it's pretty damn clear who is the boss and who is not.
For starters, Kagain, Kivan, and Coran ... LOL
@Quartz you had the same thought that I did, which is that the most powerful BG1 party would have to include those three. The other slots are variable according to class choice for the PC. But definitely those three would be in the lineup, I would say.
I see your Kagain, Kivan and Coran and raise you a Baeloth and Quayle (or dualed Xzar, comes out as roughly the same; specialist mage/cleric casting machine).
@Quartz: In BG1, I don't get it either. But in BG2, berzerker rage is a button to turn on tons of immunities to tons of nasty stuff a pure caster would have to buff up for over several turns. With the cleric self buffs, it's a killing machine with great protection. I use Berzerker/Cleric in Black Pits 2, where I shamelessly min/max and powergame. However, in BG, I haven't found a good roleplay backstory for this combination and there, I roleplay much more, so it's not a class I would use.
@KidCarnival Lul, I'll never understand the charm of Berserker. Even from a power-gaming perspective I don't get it.
The immunities the rage gets take out spell casters quickly with their only disadvantage being they can't take more than one pip in ranged. In BGI things like Sirens, Tarnesh, ghouls, and Carrions are killed quickly by a tanking Berserker because of the rage ability. My current Ber/Druid (6/13) has a 3/8 Thaco dualing clubs. doing 15-20 (gnasher) in the main hand. Raging brings that down to 1/6 and 17-22 dmg (more for both if a quaff a giant potion) x 3 attacks per round (main hand only) for 10 rounds.
Better than an unkitted and wizard slayer and less restrictions than a kensai and can be dualled unlike the Barbarian.
I personally believe Branwen is a better cleric than Viconia. I will not reiterate a full list of reasons here.
Viconia does have the higher Dex and the magic and she is the better cleric if you don't use any other spell but cure wounds.
But Branwen can go upfront, and kick strapping buttocks all day, every day.
Although last run I picked up Viconia cause I needed to keep my rep down to keep Bealoth... Then realised I had to keep Viconia as if I lost her, I would gain 2 rep points and still lose Bealoth... And my role play would have had to take a serious unbelievability turn if I suddenly had a part in my story that said... "Peasant, today you die as the local population thinks I am too darn respectable and good which is causing angst to certain members of my party, that I have taken under my care and tutelage as they found themselves above ground without friends or provenance... So sorry. I will try to make it as painless as possible. Could you just stretch your neck out a bit.
Anyway... I would have had less trouble if I picked up Branwen and Edwin.
I see your Kagain, Kivan and Coran and raise you a Baeloth and Quayle (or dualed Xzar, comes out as roughly the same; specialist mage/cleric casting machine).
@Quartz: In BG1, I don't get it either. But in BG2, berzerker rage is a button to turn on tons of immunities to tons of nasty stuff a pure caster would have to buff up for over several turns. With the cleric self buffs, it's a killing machine with great protection. I use Berzerker/Cleric in Black Pits 2, where I shamelessly min/max and powergame. However, in BG, I haven't found a good roleplay backstory for this combination and there, I roleplay much more, so it's not a class I would use.
With SCS installed I think the Berserking ability should make a difference, although it's been a long time since I played that mod.
Interesting choices for the other three in the party. I'm embarrassed to say that I haven't tried Baeloth yet.
I'd guess I might go with a stave wielding half-orc Cleric/Thief. Then Imoen, who would join the PC in backstabbing (she wielding the Dagger of Venom). And either Edwin or Baeloth (from what I've heard of Mr. .
@Lemernis Baeloth definitely needs a second caster to be really OP, since you don't get him before level 5 and can't handpick all spells. If Quayle makes the cut, that should do, though Edwin makes more sense with a cleric charname. Coran could cover traps, and charname half orc would, of course, have 19 strength, so who needs lockpicking?
Myself (an all-around vanilla ranger similar to Kivan) Kivan Branwen Imoen Dynaheir Rasaad
Except for Rasaad, who I'm keeping mainly just to "test out" and fulfill his quest, this is basically my ideal party - two frontliners who can tank and sharpshoot equally, a single class cleric who can also handle herself in melee, a single class thief with heavy emphasis on finding traps and lockpicking, and a specialist mage (I emphasize single classes because I prefer characters that level up quicker and attain more skills or spells).
If it weren't for Rasaad, I would probably have Coran in my party instead, to use as a backup archer.
my choice is khalid, apparently this guy gets a lot of flack for being terrible and people love to use this guy as fodder, but the ironic thing is, he is actually a great fighter, first of all, he has great con, which is ironic since he is a half elf so you would think that the dex would be higher but its not, but on the flip side to that, his dex is also kind of decent as well, so now you have a fighter with great HP, decent AC, and he can go 4 proficiency points in longswords, in which you can find a +2 long sword pretty quick in the game, now one drawback of coarse is the fact that his str is poop for a fighter, but then come along the mits of ogre power and now khalid rocks the kaz bar, now he has GREAT strength, great con, and decent dex, pretty good for a npc character, and of coarse if you have rassad on your team you can eventually give him the belt of str and top that off with mits of weapon specialization and then he will start doing some serious damage, now some people might say, a disadvantage with this guy is that you have to drag jaheira along with you as well to have him, and I say nay, if you want one npc from a paired couple all you have to do, is kill that one that you don't want ( when they are on your team) and reform them when they are dead and shazam, paired partner ship broken, usually for poops and giggles if I only want khalid, I take all of jaheira's goodies till she is down to her tighty whities basically and have khalid whack her all silly like, and sometimes she will get chunked, saving me a step, and then once khalid kills of jaheira he morns for her loss, as if he didn't do it, the irony
I just don't understand how Yeslick and Quayle don't make everyone's most powerful party lists. I think they are both ridiculous and easily trump Kagain and Edwin
Without SCS, Cernd can shut down any spellcaster--easily the most dangerous enemies in the game--with Insect Plague. There is no save. Invisibility will not stop it.
With SCS, Insect Plague can be blocked by Fire Shield, but SCS also lets Cernd quickly move back and forth between werewolf form and human form, and therefore cast spells while having AC below -10, 40 MR, 50% resistance to the elements, haste, and 1 HP regeneration per second. No other tank can boast of that.
His disadvantage? He can't wear armor. Thing is, his shapeshifting already gives him better AC than any armor in BG2, even the Drow Adamantine Full Plate +5.
He's not even all that hard to use. Nor does it take him much of any time to reach these milestones. People give him grief because he can't turn into a dragon. Neither can anybody else.
People also give him grief because he's not as strong in melee as an enemy werewolf. That's because he's a druid, not a fighter.
I just don't understand how Yeslick and Quayle don't make everyone's most powerful party lists. I think they are both ridiculous and easily trump Kagain and Edwin
Probably because you can't get them 'til later. Most people like to build their parties early. I plan to take Quayle in a future run, but I'm going to use the mod that puts him at the Nashkel carnival.
I just don't understand how Yeslick and Quayle don't make everyone's most powerful party lists. I think they are both ridiculous and easily trump Kagain and Edwin
Probably because you can't get them 'til later. Most people like to build their parties early. I plan to take Quayle in a future run, but I'm going to use the mod that puts him at the Nashkel carnival.
If I decide I want them I've never found it difficult to rush the storyline and get Quayle at level 2/2 and Yeslick at 2/3 I think it is without mods. Then I go back and do all the fun side quests with my team of choice. It's not like I miss content to get my team.
Getting someone late shouldn't really make them underrated, IMHO. Yeslick and Quayle are both normally considered top-tier NPC's, so I would be very interrested to hear more in detail why some would rate them as underrated. It's always interresting to hear different opinions on things you, yourself, take for granted.
Haer'Dalis. Lots of people on the forum seem to hate him and yes, he's a little... fragile, but after some tinkering with his mage spells I found him to be an absolute engine of destruction at high levels, plus his improved bard song was a great buff in those fights where the "glass" element of his glass cannon style was a problem.
Fragile. Haer'Dalis is the best tank in BG2, while his buffs are up and really now when is little tiefling ever going to be fighting without buffs?
Otherwise completely agree that tiefling is a monster. HLA's give him spike and timestop traps, making him instantly stronger than almost every other NPC in the game, because unlike a thief, he can actually effectively use that timestop time to strip mage defenses, buff himself and then repeatedly smack anybody wants in the face, until they no longer have a face. Ever chain 5 timestop traps together? That's a 50 second timestop, if Haer'Dalis can damage it it will most probably die and if not the 2 spiketraps sitting just behind the timestop traps will kill it once the timestop wears off. Also a lvl 30+ skulltrap is just funny XD
Also I never knew Xzar was considered weak, he always seemed to be a decent mage to me. 14 str means he can actually carry loot and 16 dex means he can sometimes hit things with his sling.
I choose Valygar, because that dude gets no love. 18 dex, makes for a decent archer, 16 con makes him a decent tank, 17 str is poo, but BG2 has so many str items it doesn't matter. He has a few good free spells, but what really sells me on Valygrump is he has backstab and I lov me some backstab. Also the fact he can actually hit his backstabs and after that stand and fight. Would take him more often if his personalty wasn't so crap and he wasn't such a douche to Viconia.
Comments
I see your Kagain, Kivan and Coran and raise you a Baeloth and Quayle (or dualed Xzar, comes out as roughly the same; specialist mage/cleric casting machine).
Charname would then be a berzerker/cleric.
My current Ber/Druid (6/13) has a 3/8 Thaco dualing clubs. doing 15-20 (gnasher) in the main hand. Raging brings that down to 1/6 and 17-22 dmg (more for both if a quaff a giant potion) x 3 attacks per round (main hand only) for 10 rounds.
Better than an unkitted and wizard slayer and less restrictions than a kensai and can be dualled unlike the Barbarian.
Viconia does have the higher Dex and the magic and she is the better cleric if you don't use any other spell but cure wounds.
But Branwen can go upfront, and kick strapping buttocks all day, every day.
Although last run I picked up Viconia cause I needed to keep my rep down to keep Bealoth... Then realised I had to keep Viconia as if I lost her, I would gain 2 rep points and still lose Bealoth... And my role play would have had to take a serious unbelievability turn if I suddenly had a part in my story that said... "Peasant, today you die as the local population thinks I am too darn respectable and good which is causing angst to certain members of my party, that I have taken under my care and tutelage as they found themselves above ground without friends or provenance... So sorry. I will try to make it as painless as possible. Could you just stretch your neck out a bit.
Anyway... I would have had less trouble if I picked up Branwen and Edwin.
Interesting choices for the other three in the party. I'm embarrassed to say that I haven't tried Baeloth yet.
I'd guess I might go with a stave wielding half-orc Cleric/Thief. Then Imoen, who would join the PC in backstabbing (she wielding the Dagger of Venom). And either Edwin or Baeloth (from what I've heard of Mr.
Myself (an all-around vanilla ranger similar to Kivan)
Kivan
Branwen
Imoen
Dynaheir
Rasaad
Except for Rasaad, who I'm keeping mainly just to "test out" and fulfill his quest, this is basically my ideal party - two frontliners who can tank and sharpshoot equally, a single class cleric who can also handle herself in melee, a single class thief with heavy emphasis on finding traps and lockpicking, and a specialist mage (I emphasize single classes because I prefer characters that level up quicker and attain more skills or spells).
If it weren't for Rasaad, I would probably have Coran in my party instead, to use as a backup archer.
I picked Cernd when this poll first came out. I don't think my view has changed there
With SCS, Insect Plague can be blocked by Fire Shield, but SCS also lets Cernd quickly move back and forth between werewolf form and human form, and therefore cast spells while having AC below -10, 40 MR, 50% resistance to the elements, haste, and 1 HP regeneration per second. No other tank can boast of that.
His disadvantage? He can't wear armor. Thing is, his shapeshifting already gives him better AC than any armor in BG2, even the Drow Adamantine Full Plate +5.
He's not even all that hard to use. Nor does it take him much of any time to reach these milestones. People give him grief because he can't turn into a dragon. Neither can anybody else.
People also give him grief because he's not as strong in melee as an enemy werewolf. That's because he's a druid, not a fighter.
Otherwise completely agree that tiefling is a monster. HLA's give him spike and timestop traps, making him instantly stronger than almost every other NPC in the game, because unlike a thief, he can actually effectively use that timestop time to strip mage defenses, buff himself and then repeatedly smack anybody wants in the face, until they no longer have a face. Ever chain 5 timestop traps together? That's a 50 second timestop, if Haer'Dalis can damage it it will most probably die and if not the 2 spiketraps sitting just behind the timestop traps will kill it once the timestop wears off. Also a lvl 30+ skulltrap is just funny XD
Also I never knew Xzar was considered weak, he always seemed to be a decent mage to me. 14 str means he can actually carry loot and 16 dex means he can sometimes hit things with his sling.
I choose Valygar, because that dude gets no love. 18 dex, makes for a decent archer, 16 con makes him a decent tank, 17 str is poo, but BG2 has so many str items it doesn't matter. He has a few good free spells, but what really sells me on Valygrump is he has backstab and I lov me some backstab. Also the fact he can actually hit his backstabs and after that stand and fight.
Would take him more often if his personalty wasn't so crap and he wasn't such a douche to Viconia.
Okay, now I know.